Magic the Gathering XXII: Where Puns Go to Die

[LansXero]

The Brothers' War is definitely a top pick. The Thran and the rest of the Artifacts Cycle (Planeswalker, Time Streams and Bloodlines) are all pretty decent too. Nemesis is my personal favourite though. Much like the set itself, it's by far the best part of Masques block. However, it's right in the middle of the Weatherlight Saga so probably wouldn't make a lot of sense going in cold. The rest of the Weatherlight Saga books range from average to unreadable.

Of the non-Weatherlight books, I'd agree with The Gathering Dark and also include The Eternal Ice and The Shattered Alliance (i.e. The Dark, Ice Age and Alliances). I've not read the Legends books, but I've heard good things.

Chainer's Torment is pretty well regarded too. Odyssey and Judgement don't quite match it, but overall I thought it was an alright trilogy. We don't talk about Onslaught or its sequels though. The Kamigawa books are the best thing about that set, which isn't just damning with faint praise.

To look at it another way, anything by Jeff Grubb and most things by Scott McGough tend to be good. J Robert King meanwhile is very hit-and-miss.

I also thought Torment was amazing, but, I liked the Invasion / Apocalypse books too. Which one was the book with Keldons in it? That one was pretty good too.

[sonofzeal]

So that's a "no" to anyone having read the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor Cycle, huh? :P



In other news, I'm trying to make a summary of the themes/personality of each MtG colour, ignoring actual game mechanics and tailored for non-fans. Concrit would be appreciated

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WHITE - Law

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Allies: blue, green
Enemies: black, red

Virtue: Peace
Vice: Tyranny

Associations
Healing
Protection
Denial
Balance
Vigilence
Flight

Characteristic Members
Humans
Soldiers
Angels
Kithkin
Griffons
Kitsune
Spirits

BLUE - Knowledge

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Allies: white, black
Enemies: red, green

Virtue: Intelligence
Vice: Manipulation

Associations
Theft
Mimicry
Technology
Illusions
Time
Meta-awareness
Counterspelling
Prevention

Characteristic Members
Merfolk
Shapeshifters
Sphinxes
Drakes
Sea creatures
Illusions
Wizards

BLACK - Power

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Allies: blue, red
Enemies: green, white

Virtue: Ambition
Vice: Selfishness

Associations
Amorality
Ruthlessness
Sacrifice
Draining
Regeneration
Cost

Characteristic Members
Demons
Undead
Hags
Shades
Rats
Assassins

RED - Emotion

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Allies: black, green
Enemies: white, blue

Virtue: Passion
Vice: Aggression

Associations
Impulse
Chaos
Adventure
Hedonism
Hatred
Speed
Freedom

Characteristic Members
Goblins
Dragons
Giants
Kobolds
Minotaurs
Orcs
Phoenixes

GREEN - Instinct

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Allies: red, white
Enemies: blue, black

Virtue: Growth
Vice: Predation

Associations
Feral
Lures
Strength
Expansion
Stealth
Regeneration

Characteristic Members
Elves
Centaurs
Satyrs
Treefolk
Trolls
Fungus
Animals
Druids

[ImperiousLeader]

I did okay, 2-1, at my pre-release (only a three round event), despite a frustrating sealed pool. I ended up running a Blue/Green deck, with a focus on Werewolves and Flash spirits, so I could take a turn off to flip the werewolves and still not fall behind. I had a lot of great madness cards that I couldn't run, because I didn't have any decent discard outlets. I was also just disappointed in my rares, nothing super impressive, except for the two Sages of Ancient Lore. That said, I had a fun night.

[Shadow of the Sun]

The single most fun feeling is going to be processing my opponent's suspended Ancestral Visions.

[ryuplaneswalker]

The single most fun feeling is going to be processing my opponent's suspended Ancestral Visions.

Oh well guess why that got unbanned, can't wait for the price to drop once that stars happening.

[tgva8889]

I'm certainly excited for some shake-ups in Modern. Unbanning cards is always exciting, especially cards we haven't seen do a whole lot. Control cards like Sword of the Meek and Ancestral Vision might make a deck which hasn't really been particularly strong before more reasonable; Sword/Thopter combo is still beatable, I think, so we'll see something interesting happen I'm sure.

No one's really talking about it, but restricting Lodestone Golem is really going to shake up Vintage. Shops has been the best deck for a really long time and Lodestone Golem was a really huge part of that strength. With 3 fewer copies, the deck is going to be a lot less able to end games as quickly, which will give some decks enough time to fight back and make for real games.

[ChrissP]

Has anyone try hearthstone??

[Androgeus]

Went 3-2 at prerelease, lost first two matches because I decided to play some terrible u/w flyers deck that just did nothing. I have no idea why I even tried it, I knew it was bad. Switch to a much better B/R aggro deck and won the next 3 matches. This might just be because of match ups or because I'm better when I play "Turn Guys Sideways.dec". Last match was amazing because I won due to Triskaidekaphobia. Twice. Would have probably lost with out it as well.

[Mystic Muse]

Has anyone try hearthstone??

I'm a Hearthstone veteran.* PM me and I can tell you whatever you want to know.

*I've played a lot is what I mean by this. Not that I'm necessarily particularly great at the game.

[Malistrae]

I have always been a big fan of Magic, ever since I purchased Planeswalker as a kid. However, I rarely got to play the game. Collecting the physical cards is pointless, since the number of Magic players in my county is probably in the single digits. And I dislike Magic Online and its rather high pricing. Instead, I have been playing the various DotP games (I know they are simplified somewhat). However, I have been playing Magic Duels since its release.

I feel the game is unfairly maligned. While the card pool at launch was rather small and weaker computers couldn't run the game, it still feels like the best option for the stingy/poor would-be Magic player. The gold gain is incredibly generous, especially when compared to HS (where gold gain is extremely slow and time-consuming if you are a newcomer and can't put together a competitive deck). Not to mention the fact that boosters give no surplus replicas, guaranteeing an eventual completion of the given set. The small card pool problem was partially alleviated with BFZ, and I am reasonably certain that tomorrow's release of SOI and OtG will marginalise this problem.

In conclusion, Duels had a very rough start. However, the game is in a much better state than it was at launch, imo. Now, if only they could finally combine the IOS and Steam accounts (since I play the game both on my Iphone and PC) and they would start giving out more Red cards in boosters (I swear to Bolas, I have been trying to put together a nice BUR deck since forever, but half of my booster cards are always either White or Green, with a few Black and Blue thrown in, so I ony get Red every fourth pack or so), I would be completely pleased.

Also, I am completely torn between putting together a SOI-based Red/Black vampire deck, or finally building an Eldrazi BUR deck with the addition of Gatewatch cards.

[sonofzeal]

I have always been a big fan of Magic, ever since I purchased Planeswalker as a kid. However, I rarely got to play the game. Collecting the physical cards is pointless, since the number of Magic players in my county is probably in the single digits. And I dislike Magic Online and its rather high pricing. Instead, I have been playing the various DotP games (I know they are simplified somewhat). However, I have been playing Magic Duels since its release.

I feel the game is unfairly maligned. While the card pool at launch was rather small and weaker computers couldn't run the game, it still feels like the best option for the stingy/poor would-be Magic player. The gold gain is incredibly generous, especially when compared to HS (where gold gain is extremely slow and time-consuming if you are a newcomer and can't put together a competitive deck). Not to mention the fact that boosters give no surplus replicas, guaranteeing an eventual completion of the given set. The small card pool problem was partially alleviated with BFZ, and I am reasonably certain that tomorrow's release of SOI and OtG will marginalise this problem.

In conclusion, Duels had a very rough start. However, the game is in a much better state than it was at launch, imo. Now, if only they could finally combine the IOS and Steam accounts (since I play the game both on my Iphone and PC) and they would start giving out more Red cards in boosters (I swear to Bolas, I have been trying to put together a nice BUR deck since forever, but half of my booster cards are always either White or Green, with a few Black and Blue thrown in, so I ony get Red every fourth pack or so), I would be completely pleased.

My main criticism of Magic Duels is the deck building.

When using the Deck Wizard, I never did figure out how to manually change the lands. The information is there, but it just arbitrarily refuses to let me DO anything. And since the Deck Wizard isn't too bright when it comes to lands for "splashed" decks, and since land management is such a vital part of doing well in the game, that's a pretty huge oversight.

And as to the custom deck feature... who in Serra's name thought it was a good idea to make a deck-building game with hundreds and hundreds of cards where you can't search by keyword?!? Seriously!!! That's the kiss of death right there, for me. I do NOT want to have to scroll through every card I own when looking for synergies. You can filter by color and rarity, sure, but you can't search for "elf" or "first strike" or "enters the battlefield". It would have been so easy, all the information is right there, but nooooo they had to design it for tablet so everything is push-button or swipe, even on the PC version.

Gah!



...sorry, I may have a bit of pent-up frustration there. Interface and control are the most important things to me in whether I'll enjoy a game or not. I really liked DotP 2014, and I liked the campaign of Magic Origins, but... ugh. Besides the campaign, there's better options out there.

[Ebon_Drake]

I also thought Torment was amazing, but, I liked the Invasion / Apocalypse books too. Which one was the book with Keldons in it? That one was pretty good too.

For a horrible moment there, I thought you were talking about Prophecy. Prophecy is distinctly not good, and was the specific book I was thinking of when I said they range all the way down to unreadable. There's a few other books with the Keldons in, so imma just say you're talking about Bloodlines.

The Invasion cycle was fun, but struggled with having so much going on with so many different characters. A symptom of that was Greven getting trivially thrown away in his one scene in the entire trilogy after all the character development he'd got in Nemesis . Older fans also disliked Planeshift specifically for unceremoniously killing off Taysir, Daria and Kristina as something of a pruning of the pre-revisionist characters (maybe Szat too, but he'd always had it coming and it was a classic moment of Urza's twisted logic). It didn't bother me at the time because I had no idea who they were or what their significance had been in Magic's early days, but I can sympathise after Time Spiral then did the same thing to make way for Jace & co.

So that's a "no" to anyone having read the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor Cycle, huh? :P

Not only have I not read it, I honestly can't remember anyone's reactions to it - good or bad. Admittedly my interest in Magic was waning at the time though. Apparently Shadowmoor was an anthology of short stories rather than a novel for some reason?

[IthilanorStPete]

I didn't care much for Time Streams or Bloodlines, but I adore Planeswalker. Urza's a fascinating character and Xantcha's one of my favorite MtG protagonists. (Admittedly, I haven't read much of the pre-Lorwyn fiction.) I also really like The Brothers' War, which does an excellent job of conveying the mood and atmosphere of the sheer exhaustion of unending, industrialized warfare. The Thran is also pretty good, though mainly for Rebbec and Gix; Yawgmoth's a little too one-note for me as a villain, without the style and amusement of someone like Ob Nixilis.

Not only have I not read it, I honestly can't remember anyone's reactions to it - good or bad. Admittedly my interest in Magic was waning at the time though. Apparently Shadowmoor was an anthology of short stories rather than a novel for some reason?

The Shadowmoor anthology's pretty neat, IMO. I haven't read any of the other Lorwyn books.

[ryuplaneswalker]

My main criticism of Magic Duels is the deck building.

When using the Deck Wizard, I never did figure out how to manually change the lands. The information is there, but it just arbitrarily refuses to let me DO anything. And since the Deck Wizard isn't too bright when it comes to lands for "splashed" decks, and since land management is such a vital part of doing well in the game, that's a pretty huge oversight.

And as to the custom deck feature... who in Serra's name thought it was a good idea to make a deck-building game with hundreds and hundreds of cards where you can't search by keyword?!? Seriously!!! That's the kiss of death right there, for me. I do NOT want to have to scroll through every card I own when looking for synergies. You can filter by color and rarity, sure, but you can't search for "elf" or "first strike" or "enters the battlefield". It would have been so easy, all the information is right there, but nooooo they had to design it for tablet so everything is push-button or swipe, even on the PC version.

Gah!



...sorry, I may have a bit of pent-up frustration there. Interface and control are the most important things to me in whether I'll enjoy a game or not. I really liked DotP 2014, and I liked the campaign of Magic Origins, but... ugh. Besides the campaign, there's better options out there.

As someone who has completed both sets I feel the need to add some additional points.

1. The Turn around on new sets is WAY TOO LONG. now SoI looks like they have taken it into consideration and are improving upon it, however we have gone months and months with just Ori/BFZ

2. The Deckbuilder needs lots of work

3. There are cards missing from the sets, that are in the game. Blighted Woodland exists in the code but it was not in the BFZ packs, Noyan Dar is outright missing ect.

4. The way the collections are limited destroys the gameplay, there are times where your opponent draws a gigantic bomb (Gideon, Flip Jace) and you just can't do anything.

5. 2 Headed Giant is broken as crap.

6. Lack of alternative play modes really hurts the game, Archenemy and Planechase were great in the previous Duels of the Planeswalker games, and it is sad that they have not been included, and a big mode that is missing is Multiplayer Free For All and Commander modes, especially since Commander is a very popular format among causal players.

[tgva8889]

I don't think Magic Duels has enough cards to play Commander.

I didn't read the Eventide book, I heard it wasn't very good. Which is a shame, because I liked Lorwyn. Morningtide was...not good. The Shadowmoor Anthology was kind of okay, I thought it was interesting but it didn't seem to have anything to do with any of the other books, or at least not enough to be interesting if you wanted to just get on with the story.

[ryuplaneswalker]

I don't think Magic Duels has enough cards to play Commander.

Eh Once Oath and SoI are in there there should be, not a whole lot of variation in the decks will be possible, however if they tossed in a Ravinca Guild legendary for each Guild you could see some variant builds.

Edit : So..I am doing the Oath of the Gatewatch plot in Magic Duels and

They, put, PRISIM ARRAY into a deck against eldrazi.

PRISIM ARRAY, so I can pay one of each color to Scry to find NO WIN CONDITIONS BECAUSE YOU WASTED TWO SPOTS ON PRISIM ARRAY.

[Dhavaer]

Which do you think would be better for Odriccing double strike in Boros, Arashin Foremost or Champion of Iroas?

[Ionbound]

Foremost, most likely. As it stands, with no other warriors on the field, one is just as good as the the other, and it's all upside from there for the Arashin.

[Dhavaer]

That's a timely answer, as I somehow managed to pick up three more Odrics today. One in a booster box, one in a draft and the third in prizes. I must make a deck.

[Binks]

So, Duels patch out today. Added SoI cards and storyline (any maybe Oath stuff too, though I may have just missed when that got patched in, haven't played in a while). Anyone else check it out?

Spoiler: Story Stuff

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Not much we didn't already know. Has Jace's trip to Lilliana, then Markov Manor, then the Drownyard. Doesn't go too far past that, but tells us where Jace and Taimyo finally meet and how their confrontation with Avacyn goes down. I appreciated the user interface non-spoiler of having the last mission only show up once the one before it was done, to avoid telling us that Avacyn was kinda going to beat Jace and Taimyo.

All in all, not a great deal of extra information, but we've got the story up through Avacyn's unmaking now, so that's not nothing.

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Firstly, I love the Jace/Taimyo clue deck you get to play in the storyline. Exactly the kind of deck I want to build in Duels once I have enough SoI cards.

Seems like they included quite a few improvements in this patch. Among them were moving the stack off the center of the screen (thank goodness), adding a minimize feature to prompts so you can see the board state before deciding, and having instants no longer hold priority on your turn (if all you can cast are instants it starts the timer immediately each phase, so you can decide to pause or just let it run). Also added some nice highlighting to cards to tell you when special effects are in play (surge, instants vs. sorceries, etc).

Also, my personal favorite feature (though the least impactful), they added a progress bar in the store to tell you what % of a set you have unlocked thus far. Really nice for tracking if you're going for full unlocks like I am (though I've got Oath and SoI now to grind, and I still haven't finished BfZ!).

Overall it's a much nicer game to play now. If they could just get around to adding some proper deckbuilding search functionality and add in some real alternate game modes (two headed doesn't count since you can't earn points off it) I'd call it the best duels thus far.

EDIT: Also, almost forgot, they added new skill challenges and apparently re-enabled all the old ones, so lots of gold available for very little investment (10-15 gold per challenge, and there are now 25).

[Dhavaer]

First attempt at Odriccing it up: Some Kind of Tactical Genius!

Apparently white doesn't get lifelink below cmc 4. This makes the bishop very sad. I'm thinking the cloak that gives trample, haste and vigilance might be handy too - I don't have any source of trample. Thoughts?

[Bucky]

First attempt at Odriccing it up: Some Kind of Tactical Genius!

Apparently white doesn't get lifelink below cmc 4. This makes the bishop very sad. I'm thinking the cloak that gives trample, haste and vigilance might be handy too - I don't have any source of trample. Thoughts?

1) What format is that? Standard?
2) I think Odric is inherently under-utilized in mono-white, and you'd be better off in two colors (or possibly one color plus Eldrazi).
3) You look like you're just asking to be blown out by a sweeper.
4) Aven Skirmisher and War Oracle look suspicious.

[Dhavaer]

1) What format is that? Standard?
2) I think Odric is inherently under-utilized in mono-white, and you'd be better off in two colors (or possibly one color plus Eldrazi).
3) You look like you're just asking to be blown out by a sweeper.
4) Aven Skirmisher and War Oracle look suspicious.

1) Yes. TappedOut shows the format in the tags below the title.
2) I originally wanted to go Boros, but there were very few red humans with good keywords and Anafenza, Lieutenant, Always Watching and Foremost all have double white requirements.
3) Weenie decks do have problems with board wipes. The anthems and counters can get several creatures out of Languish range, though, and I very rarely see other board wipes. Maybe Descend Upon The Sinful will be a problem, maybe not.
4) Skrimisher is a warrior with a good keyword, its tiny body doesn't worry me too much. Oracle was for a source of lifelink, but that might not be necessary. I could drop them for Harvest Hands and maybe Haunted Cloaks.

[Ninjaman]

First attempt at Odriccing it up: Some Kind of Tactical Genius!

Apparently white doesn't get lifelink below cmc 4. This makes the bishop very sad. I'm thinking the cloak that gives trample, haste and vigilance might be handy too - I don't have any source of trample. Thoughts?

War oracle is too expensive, topplegeist is almost strictly better than the aven (weaker with foremost), I would play more anafenzas and more 1 drops. Not sure if lieutenant and captain are good enough, (captain might be a sideboard card).

[Morcleon]

How do people here feel about proxies as part of a deck? What about an entire deck of proxies?

[Arcane_Snowman]

How do people here feel about proxies as part of a deck? What about an entire deck of proxies?

In a casual setting they shouldn't be a problem, but it entirely depends on who you're playing with and thus anyone you're not playing with answering that question is entirely moot.

Personally, myself and my girlfriend proxy quite to play as we currently have no disposable income with which to assemble new decks.

[Dhavaer]

War oracle is too expensive, topplegeist is almost strictly better than the aven (weaker with foremost), I would play more anafenzas and more 1 drops. Not sure if lieutenant and captain are good enough, (captain might be a sideboard card).

I think I'll drop captain along with war oracle. Lieutenant is a two-drop first strike source and a pseudo-anthem, I definitely want it. I can't get delirium so topplegeist loses its biggest upside. Are there any one drops you'd recommend? The only good one I can see is Dragon Hunter. I'd also like another two Anafenzas, but at the moment it looks like dragonslayer will be filling out the two drops.

Edit: I do nothing but build decks. My Orzhov Allies deck, now renamed Interludes and Nocturnes, seems good but overly variable. I'm thinking some amount of Read the Bones would be helpful, probably swapping them out for Vampire Envoys. I'm thinking two, but maybe I should go for a full playset?

[ImperiousLeader]

They, put, PRISIM ARRAY into a deck against eldrazi.

PRISIM ARRAY, so I can pay one of each color to Scry to find NO WIN CONDITIONS BECAUSE YOU WASTED TWO SPOTS ON PRISIM ARRAY.

The tap ability allowed me the win, as I tapped their few large defenders to get my last few tokens in for the kill. I'm not defending the card, mind you. It's terrible.

[ryuplaneswalker]

The tap ability allowed me the win, as I tapped their few large defenders to get my last few tokens in for the kill. I'm not defending the card, mind you. It's terrible.

I realize that is a valid use for the card, like..Aligned Hedron Network would still do that job better.

Also, the deck didn't have a win con at all..I ended up winning by getting really lucky and getting a Woodland Wanderer up to 10/10 before it got Titan's Presence'd...and using it as a big threat to keep my opponent from attacking while my Vampire slowly drained lifepoints away.

god that deck needs a wincon badly.

[Dhavaer]

How many planeswalkers do you need before Oath of Gideon becomes worthwhile? I'm thinking of having 2x Gideon, 1x Sorin, 1x Ob in my allies deck.