Zaydos' Princess, Updated for 5e

[RazDelacroix]

...Well, I was not expecting to come across this when I came drifting through today. Time to copy/paste for my own tabletop house use! Though if one of my players decides to be a tiefling infernal warlock escorting an aasimar classic princess... Everyone run. Just, run. RUN BEFORE THE MUSICAL NUMBERS CALL YOU FORTH!

No real criticisms on my end of things. I hope more folks enjoy it as well!

[AuraTwilight]

...Well, I was not expecting to come across this when I came drifting through today. Time to copy/paste for my own tabletop house use! Though if one of my players decides to be a tiefling infernal warlock escorting an aasimar classic princess... Everyone run. Just, run. RUN BEFORE THE MUSICAL NUMBERS CALL YOU FORTH!

No real criticisms on my end of things. I hope more folks enjoy it as well!

The hilarious thing is that this is exactly what's going on in the campaign I asked for this for.

[JNAProductions]

Seems a bit much to me. Has this had playtesting?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Seems a bit much to me. Has this had playtesting?

Not by me, I'm afraid. I think AuraTwilight is using it in a game.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend this for PbP, because it's so dependent on synergising with the other party members that it probably won't work without real-time table talk.

[Sariel Vailo]

I enjoy this it's rather interesting.however I have some questions is their a limit on the champion thing. Like if I make a party member of mine a champion and their a berserker barbarian. Would their exhaustion,catch up with them. Reply fast please I'm currently a pretty rebel princess named Ophelia Sophie moonscar

[Ninja_Prawn]

I enjoy this it's rather interesting.however I have some questions is their a limit on the champion thing. Like if I make a party member of mine a champion and their a berserker barbarian. Would their exhaustion,catch up with them. Reply fast please I'm currently a pretty rebel princess named Ophelia Sophie moonscar

Thank you for playing! As written, a berserker who you've nominated a champion is immune to exhaustion, including when it's self-inflicted. A lot of people think that penalty is unfair anyway, and this is an 11^th level ability (thus it's one of the bigger ones), so I'd stick to that. Your DM is welcome to say otherwise, though.

If they cease being your champion (e.g. if you die or nominate someone else), then they would lose the immunity, but I probably wouldn't have all the exhaustion they've avoided in the past catch up to them immediately - the shock would surely kill them and that's no fun.

[JBPuffin]

First Look at Equipment and Weapon Proficiences - They only have daggers and quarterstaffs? Weak.
Second Look: Well, the dark path and one of the normal ones gets medium and more weapons, it's alright.
Third: They have Cha to AC? Oh boy...
Fourth: Fricken DOGS at 1st level?! W00t!

In other words, this is definitely a fun support class. I'd argue it's less a spell-less bard and more a squishy one, but tomayto tomahto, ya know?

[Ninja_Prawn]

First Look at Equipment and Weapon Proficiences - They only have daggers and quarterstaffs? Weak.
Second Look: Well, the dark path and one of the normal ones gets medium and more weapons, it's alright.
Third: They have Cha to AC? Oh boy...
Fourth: Fricken DOGS at 1st level?! W00t!

In other words, this is definitely a fun support class. I'd argue it's less a spell-less bard and more a squishy one, but tomayto tomahto, ya know?

In terms of gp-value, the dogs are actually the cheapest option of the three... I even considered making it three dogs, but that just seemed excessive, you know?

Surely it can be both squishy and spell-less?

[Sariel Vailo]

First Look at Equipment and Weapon Proficiences - They only have daggers and quarterstaffs? Weak.
Second Look: Well, the dark path and one of the normal ones gets medium and more weapons, it's alright.
Third: They have Cha to AC? Oh boy...
Fourth: Fricken DOGS at 1st level?! W00t!

In other words, this is definitely a fun support class. I'd argue it's less a spell-less bard and more a squishy one, but tomayto tomahto, ya know?

So can we add rapier at least to the proficiency list.

[Ninja_Prawn]

So can we add rapier at least to the proficiency list.

Absolutely not. The whole point of this class is that it doesn't do anything for itself - the most optimal action is always getting other people to do things.

There's already an option for those who want to break that - the rebel archetype. It also makes racial proficiencies more useful - it makes perfect sense that a drow princess would know her way around a rapier.

[Sariel Vailo]

Absolutely not. The whole point of this class is that it doesn't do anything for itself - the most optimal action is always getting other people to do things.

There's already an option for those who want to break that - the rebel archetype. It also makes racial proficiencies more useful - it makes perfect sense that a drow princess would know her way around a rapier.

I will make a Drow princess next as a test but half elf is the most skill heavy

[Ninja_Prawn]

I will make a Drow princess next as a test but half elf is the most skill heavy

Be sure to let me know how it goes!

[Sariel Vailo]

Be sure to let me know how it goes!

Ahem the testing went fairly well and for giggles every time my princess leveled up her dress got more and more beautiful at level 9 it's an equivalent dress of 200 gp the rebel princess is fine and works well for a Drow princess rebelling from being evil how ever spiders is what I think for animal, but what do I know I'm just a Drow princess: Sariel the next good drow

[Sariel Vailo]

ahem ninja praw ,YOURE drow princess of battle has returned with tales of battle glory love and cranberries.but some strange if overpowered things i noticed upon rigorous multi game testing from level1 to high tier play.

[Ninja_Prawn]

ahem ninja praw ,YOURE drow princess of battle has returned with tales of battle glory love and cranberries.but some strange if overpowered things i noticed upon rigorous multi game testing from level1 to high tier play.

Playtesting feedback is very much appreciated. What have you found?

[Sariel Vailo]

a clever girl that can cast wish many times not ,good. does a alignment shift if you cant get your allies to not kill.an assasin rouge and a fighter champion effecifley tht get a crit thaan usse a princess inspiration die break a fight with one massive surge of damage. my two allies tanked demogorgon the vfirst time they met him.

[Ninja_Prawn]

a clever girl that can cast wish many times not ,good. does a alignment shift if you cant get your allies to not kill.an assasin rouge and a fighter champion effecifley tht get a crit thaan usse a princess inspiration die break a fight with one massive surge of damage. my two allies tanked demogorgon the vfirst time they met him.

So, let me get these clear:

1. Being able to cast Wish is 'not good'.
2. Instill Valour is broken for crit-fishers.
3. The protective abilities (though I'm not sure which ones... do you mean the decree It is Time to do your Duty, Soldiers?) are too strong in practice.
4. The interaction between alignments, codes of conduct and morality in general isn't clear.

My answers to these are:

1. This is an 18^th-level ability, that you can use once every other day, with restrictions (or four days out of five if you're willing to get monkey-pawed half the time). There's no way to get this ability and ninth-level spell slots (outside gestalt, which I can't legislate for). I can't see the problem.
2. The idea is that the Princess is forgoing her action to give people inspiration. Thus, when other martial classes get extra attack, her inspiration damage is doubled. It's supposed to be equivalent. I can see that this would be a problem if you nominated a crit-fisher as your champion, so I will re-word that ability.
3. I don't really understand how this can be a problem. What CR was Demogorgon? What levels were your allies? How did the Princess influence their tanking abilities?
4. I'll add in an extra paragraph under Princess Style to explain how Codes of Conduct should work.

Edit: changes now complete. Thank you for your input!

[Sariel Vailo]

So, let me get these clear:

1. Being able to cast Wish is 'not good'.
2. Instill Valour is broken for crit-fishers.
3. The protective abilities (though I'm not sure which ones... do you mean the decree It is Time to do your Duty, Soldiers?) are too strong in practice.
4. The interaction between alignments, codes of conduct and morality in general isn't clear.

My answers to these are:

1. This is an 18^th-level ability, that you can use once every other day, with restrictions (or four days out of five if you're willing to get monkey-pawed half the time). There's no way to get this ability and ninth-level spell slots (outside gestalt, which I can't legislate for). I can't see the problem.
2. The idea is that the Princess is forgoing her action to give people inspiration. Thus, when other martial classes get extra attack, her inspiration damage is doubled. It's supposed to be equivalent. I can see that this would be a problem if you nominated a crit-fisher as your champion, so I will re-word that ability.
3. I don't really understand how this can be a problem. What CR was Demogorgon? What levels were your allies? How did the Princess influence their tanking abilities?
4. I'll add in an extra paragraph under Princess Style to explain how Codes of Conduct should work.

Edit: changes now complete. Thank you for your input!

the demogorgon from,out of the abyss.in truth the wish if a princess rper is clever enough with wording and the dm is a kind one they may be able to explain why their allies are size huge and brought to life with an additional bit of extra damage.bardsy smart players and wish dangerous surely

[Sariel Vailo]

as the clasic princess is thematicaly more supporty the damage upping would be an additional effect. well deserved. give the extra stuff from before to the classic

[Ninja_Prawn]

the demogorgon from,out of the abyss.in truth the wish if a princess rper is clever enough with wording and the dm is a kind one they may be able to explain why their allies are size huge and brought to life with an additional bit of extra damage.bardsy smart players and wish dangerous surely

I don't have Out of the Abyss, so that doesn't mean a lot to me, I'm afraid.

Of course Wish is dangerous. It's a 9th-level spell! I'd like to point out that I already included the clause "You must work within the explicit options listed in spell's description," which stops most of the abuse potential dead on its own. The PHB trusts DMs to kibosh any shenanigans they're not happy with - and I am doing the same.

as the clasic princess is thematicaly more supporty the damage upping would be an additional effect. well deserved. give the extra stuff from before to the classic

You may have a point here. 4 of the 5 abilities in the Classic Princess are pure self-defense; 3 of them are always-on passives. That is a bit monotonous. If anyone else is reading this, are there any suggestions for an offensive support ability that could replace one of these?

[Sariel Vailo]

other wise ithink its fun before or after the change just wnated to make you aware of the plays i saw. i mean it was fine giving the minor damage buff but maybe instead of dropping it altogether lower the additonal crit dmage rolls. say from 4 to maybe 1 additional time which gives a nice little damge buff without making it ya know.

[Ninja_Prawn]

instead of dropping it altogether

To clarify, I have not changed the amount of damage. I changed the Nominate Champion ability to make it so that the Princess always has to spend her action to get this damage.

[Sariel Vailo]

Hey ninja prawn a fallen aasimar that has the haunted one background because they witnessed their family and kingdom destroyed,damned and betrayed by traitors and hob goblins.would I have to be a villainous princess or is rebellious fine.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Hey ninja prawn a fallen aasimar that has the haunted one background because they witnessed their family and kingdom destroyed,damned and betrayed by traitors and hob goblins.would I have to be a villainous princess or is rebellious fine.

That's between you and your DM, really. If you can keep more or less to the Rebellious Princess' Code, you should be fine playing that. Then the Fallen archetype is always there as an option, if your DM thinks you aren't living up to your ideals.

[Sariel Vailo]

fallen princess works better but i think atrinket for the scenario icould be added remember some princess are deposed or ousted as a group of rouge adventures take power.

[ocel]

Why is it that the DC for the Princess's class features rely on Wisdom rather than Charisma? I can understand the reasoning behind using the ability for the Magical Princess's spellcasting, but not much else other than that.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Why is it that the DC for the Princess's class features rely on Wisdom rather than Charisma? I can understand the reasoning behind using the ability for the Magical Princess's spellcasting, but not much else other than that.

Fair question. Here is my thinking:

Aegis of Awe. Charisma. This one is about awe-inspiring presence, pretty much a no-brainer.

Decrees. generally Wisdom for save DCs, some require Charisma checks. This one could go either way, I think. I went with Wisdom to emphasise how handing down decrees shows the Princess' small-w wisdom. It's about choosing the right words, making wise decisions and giving good advice. Also, several of them are quasi-magical, which I think is more clearly Wisdom.

Healing Touch. Wisdom. This is quasi-magic with a Clerical feel. I'm happy with Wisdom for it.

Fairest of Them All. Wisdom and Charisma. I assume there are no complaints here.

Mystical Song. Wisdom. I can see why you might complain about this. It comes down to a question of: does the Princess inspire with her Wisdom or with her Charisma? Since either seems feasible, I went with Wisdom so as not to make the Classic Princess too SAD.

Inviolable Beauty. Charisma. For the Classic Princess, psychical beauty and big-C Charisma are inseparable.

Magical Princess Spellcasting. Wisdom. This is Clerical magic.

Soothing Light. Wisdom. I know I used the word 'presence' in the fluff, but this is a magical effect and should run off the same stat as the spellcasting feature.

So yes, there's a slight lean towards Wisdom, and a few features that could go either way. Unfortunately, neither of those features would make sense as a 'choose which stat this ability uses' type deal. Given that there are enough classes that use Charisma as their 'attack stat' already, I'm happy to keep the Princess' main stat-based offense as Wisdom. The fact that their AC is dependent on Charisma means that both stats are important anyway.

[ocel]

Hmm... I see. Though, I suspect that all this will discourage players from investing heavily in charisma.

I would like to ask another question. Why has the Princess been given so many Ability Score Improvements?

[Ninja_Prawn]

I would like to ask another question. Why has the Princess been given so many Ability Score Improvements?

The Princess gets the same ASI progression as the Fighter, because it's a relatively straightforward martial class that relies mainly on at-will abilities (Inspiration and Advice). I tried to scale the abilities in general to match what the Fighter can do (in a roundabout way), and I thought it would be a good idea to keep their ASIs as well since that allows the player a bit more flexibility to do interesting things. It's not like the availability of this class will stop people playing Fighters, after all.

Alternatively, you could look at this as a spell-less Bard. In that case, the extra ASIs make up some of the slack from not having spells.

Thematically, I also think it makes sense that the Princess is constantly learning and growing. Stories always emphasise how a Princess has to spend all her time practising skills, music and so on, so the extra ASIs represent some degree of self-improvement and 'oh, I've been studying this in my free time' or 'yes, my father paid for special lessons in that when I was younger.' A good princess should have some hidden talents!

Do you think it's too much?

[ocel]

Do you think it's too much?

Maybe. Though, I'm curious what would you replace these class features with. Something akin to Bard's Jack of All Trades or Champion's Remarkable Athlete perhaps?