Results 91 to 120 of 133
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2016-04-26, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
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- NC
- Gender
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
I'm really sad I didn't get a chance to finish my build for this. Although, in hindsight, it's probably a good thing, since I would have been the 3rd vampire (and 2nd vampire lord). Oh well. Spoilered is what I had finished. Looking at it now, the only thing I didn't finish were his Maneuvers.
Spoiler: Kozo Jirokichi
Kozo Jirokichi
The Fallen Hand of Balance
Spoiler: Build Stub
LG -> LN -> LE Nezumi Vampire Monk 1/Swordsage 4/Shadow Sun Disciple 10/Master Vampire 3
Spoiler: Background Story
As a young Nezumi raised on the outskirts of the Shadowlands, Kozo Jirokichi aspired to raise himself above the petty thieving and squabbling stereotypical of his race. Leaving home to join a monastery as soon as he could complete the journey, Kozo stole away from home in the dead of night, taking with him little more than some homespun robes, wooden sandals, a wide-brim hat, and a few days of trail rations tied up on the end of his walking staff.
After training at a truly progressive monastery for a few years, Kozo was sent forth on a mission to make a difference in the world. Attaching himself to a travelling group consisting of a Samurai, a Wu-Jen, a Ninja, and a Shugenja, Kozo reveled in the ability to work together towards a common goal, battling the taint of the Shadowlands and fighting back against the demonic Oni that plagued the lands. While working with this group for over a decade, Kozo made quick friendship with the Ninja, Isshi, finding in him a kindred spirit. Working together to scout out the enemy, and fighting the same foes opposite each other, Kozo and Isshi coordinated their attacks in order to keep their opponent off balance and open to devastating precise strikes.
Building on his training with Isshi, Kozo strove to maintain a balance between light and dark. Gone were the days of his innocent youth, when he thought of everything in terms of black and white, now he knew that life was about balance. In what was to be the group's most memorable (and final) mission, Kozo and his company found themselves delving deep beneath society, coming face to face with a powerful fiend, summoned from the fiery Abyss. After numerous passes back and forth between the courageous company of heroes and the impressively devastating Balor, the heroes were clearly taking the heavier toll. With Tenji, their Samurai leader, down for the count and their Wu-Jen and Shugenja running low on spells, it was up to Kozo and Isshi to lay the demon to rest. Embracing his inner darkness, Kozo activated his most powerful ability, seemingly turning into a being of pure shadow. Slipping into a flanking position, Kozo delivered a brutal fusillade of blows, each strike stealing the vitality of the powerful demon, and making him even weaker and easier for Isshi to hit. In less than a single minute, the Balor was banished back to the Abyss from which he came, but Kozo was also reduced to fine inky mist.
One year and four days later, Kozo Jirokichi now hunts the countryside for his former companions on the anniversary of his return to "life" as a vampire. If they can't be bothered to bring him back to life, then he will try his damnedest to bring them over to his side, along with anyone else who gets in his way.
Spoiler: Attribute Chart
Increases from level would be well spent raising your Dexterity and Wisdom scores.Attribute Base Score Racial Modifier Level Increases Vampire Bonuses Total Score Strength 14 +0 +0 +6 20 Dexterity 15 +0 +3 +4 22 Constitution 8 +2 +0 Negated Intelligence 12 +0 +0 +2 14 Wisdom 13 +0 +1 +2 16 Charisma 10 -2 +0 +4 12
Spoiler: Build Progression Table
CR/HD Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1/1 Sleeping Tiger Monk 1 +0 +2 +2 +2 Skills Weapon FinesseB, Darkstalker Bonus Feat, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike 2/2 Swordsage 1 +0 +2 +4 +4 Skills Weapon Focus (Shadow Hand Weapons)B Quick to Act +1, Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus (Shadow Hand Weapons)) 3/3 Swordsage 2 +1 +2 +5 +5 Skills Shadow Blade AC Bonus 4/4 Swordsage 3 +2 +3 +5 +5 Skills - - 5/5 Swordsage 4 +3 +3 +6 +6 Skills - Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike) 6/6 Shadow Sun Ninja 1 +3 +5 +8 +8 Skills Superior Unarmed Strike Monk Abilities, Touch of the Shadow Sun 7/7 Shadow Sun Ninja 2 +4 +6 +9 +9 Skills - Flame of the Shadow Sun 8/8 Shadow Sun Ninja 3 +5 +6 +9 +9 Skills - 9/9 Shadow Sun Ninja 4 +6 +7 +10 +10 Skills Blade Meditation Light Within Darkness 10/10 Shadow Sun Ninja 5 +6 +7 +10 +10 Skills - Darkness Within Light 11/11 Shadow Sun Ninja 6 +7 +8 +11 +11 Skills - 12/12 Shadow Sun Ninja 7 +8 +8 +11 +11 Skills Snap Kick Void of the Shadow Sun 13/13 Shadow Sun Ninja 8 +9 +9 +12 +12 Skills - Child of Shadow and Light 14/14 Shadow Sun Ninja 9 +9 +9 +12 +12 Skills - 15/15 Shadow Sun Ninja 10 +10 +10 +13 +13 Skills Gloom Razor Balance of Light and Dark 17/15 Vampire Skills Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes Ability Score Increases, Skill Bonuses, Turn Resistance, Spider Climb, Blood Drain, Children of the Night, Dominate, Create Spawn, Energy Drain, Alternate Form, Damage Reduction, Fast Healing, Gaseous Form, Resistances 18/16 Master Vampire 1 +10 +12 +13 +15 Skills - More Spawn, Turn Resistance 19/17 Master Vampire 2 +11 +13 +13 +16 Skills - Enhanced Spawn 20/18 Master Vampire 3 +11 +13 +14 +16 Skills Improved Turn Resistance Master's Chosen
Spoiler: Maneuvers
Spoiler: Level Breakdown
- CR 5: A Monk/Swordsage build, focused on unarmed strikes and stealth, Kozo would be played (if encountered at this level for any reason) like a typical sneak. He might be used as a spy, trying to determine for his party if the player's group are up to any illicit activities.
- CR10: As a Shadow Sun Ninja halfway through his prestige class, Kozo has a number of abilities to both inflict burst damage to his enemies and keep his own companions healed up. As an initiator focused on the Shadow Hand discipline, Kozo's maneuverability is above average as well.
- CR15: The high spot right before the fall.
- Sweet Spot - CR 17: Honestly, this is pretty much the earliest point at which you can introduce Kozo as an antagonist. At every point up until now, he is either LG or LN
- CR20: Being able to have more spawn, and to make some of those spawn more powerful, really becomes a force multiplier. At this CR, Kozo should be a force to be reckoned with, especially if you utilize as much of his backstory as possible, and stat up his former party mates to be his spawn. The Ninja or the Samurai would benefit most from being his Chosen (Ninja, for flavor reasons), and Issha and Kozo working together could potentially be quite the challenging encounter. Especially when backed up by the Wu-jen and the Shugenja.
Spoiler: Sources
- Oriental Adventures - Nezumi, information about Rokugan
- SRD - Monk, Variant Monk, Skills, Vampire, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus
- DMG - Elite Array
- Lords of Madness - Darkstalker
- Tome of Battle - Swordsage, Shadow Sun Ninja, Shadow Blade, Superior Unarmed Strike, Blade Meditation, Snap Kick, Gloom Razor
- Libris Mortis - Master Vampire, Improved Turn Resistance
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2016-04-29, 03:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Location
- Next to the Mandolinist
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they pun the harder they laugh
So. . . I would judge, except I would be a horrible judge in at least three of the four categories. This fact is evidenced by me getting dead last in all the competitions I‘ve participated in so far. Except maybe because there‘s so many undead-makers this round, being dead last isn‘t much of a problem?
What‘s the criteria to become a judge, anyway? There‘s a judging deadline coming up sooner or later too, right? What‘s the proper way totrickconvince someone to judge, if there is one?Favorite sports:
Fencing
Football (Soccer)
Figure Skating
(and basically everything else that starts with 'f')ALSO! Come roleplay FFRPG in the Nexus!Nexus Characters.
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2016-04-29, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Judges have to step up voluntarily. All contests rely on this "service" and most of the contests die out because of multiple non-judged rounds. I hope someone finds it in him to judge the eight submissions. If the judging deadline is over without any judging we simply wait another two weeks for a judge. If there still are no scores by that point, we simply move on.
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2016-04-29, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
I'll step up to judge for y'all. I haven't judged this particular contest before, but I have done a few IC rounds in the past.
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2016-04-30, 10:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Oh godsdammit, a story-based round. I could have rocked this one...if I figured out a mechanics-based way to make a character evil, or ignored that and wrote up a really good Start of Darkness.
There's a template for that in the Draconomicon.
I'll see if I can fit judging in around finals. Speaking of which, this probably isn't the best time for contests like this.
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2016-05-05, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Hey all,
Just wanted to pop in to let you know I am working through this. I've got two more to wrap up, then a once-over to try to root out any inconsistencies in the judging. I hope to have it done tomorrow before I pile the kids in the car for a road trip, but if it's not up by midday tomorrow I will have it up Saturday - scout's honor (internet access permitting).Last edited by Rama; 2016-05-05 at 05:09 PM.
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2016-05-05, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2016-05-07, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
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2016-05-07, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
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- material & internet plane
- Gender
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2016-05-09, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2012
- Location
- Necro-equestrian Pugilism
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Hey Rama, hope the road trip is/went well. Any update on the judging?
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2016-05-09, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
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2016-05-09, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Before I post the judging, let me expound a bit on how I approached it.
Typically when I've done IC, I've been very mechanical. I set a list of criteria, and each entry goes against them. I try to keep it... not automated, but objective. There are always judgement calls of course, but entries deserve that approach imo.
This one's a little different to me. Between the various restrictions, the Competence and Memorable Villainy categories, etc., I think a more subjective approach is needed. That has the drawback of more potential for unfair variations from entry to entry (which I've tried very hard to eliminate), so if you perceive an injustice I welcome an objection. Hopefully where I'm coming from makes sense with my comments.
Specific approaches I've taken:
Originality. If I expected the approach before reading any entries, or it saw multiple entries, expect a markdown. This did include a subjective evaluation of the background and RP of the villain for originality as compared to common stories or campaign themes.
Elegance. Two points. 1) Is it mechanically sound (qualifies for classes, feats, etc as presented)? I didn't do an exacting test, mostly spot checked and quick reviewed, so some might have been missed. If it's a DM judgement call, I tended not to penalize. 2) Does the entry meet the imposed contest restrictions? Also a judgement call, and one that does crop up for some entries - mostly on the corruption of others requirement.
Competence and Power. Competence - ability to complete stated long term goals/objectives in the face of stiff opposition. Based strictly off of what the entry stated as the villain's mission. Power - ability to survive, thrive, and triumph against immediate combat and short term engagements, typically against a generic party of 4 PCs.
Memorable Villainy. How likely the villain is to be remembered after the game. This is the most subjective to judge, and probably the most difficult. I considered memorability not just of the character in a vacuum, but also in terms of the contest - memorable as a fallen hero. That latter part, as you'll note, gave me the most trouble.
Hope that helps explain where I'm coming from. Actual judging to follow shortly - just checking my formatting one last time.
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2016-05-09, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Kobayashi – 15.50 Points
Originality: 3.50 points
Spoiler
The dead champion being raised as an undead scourge is something of a known quantity, story wise; almost a messianic archetype although you do have an interesting take. The fey-forest theme did recur in the competition as well. Build-wise, an intriguing character.
Elegance: 4.00 points
Spoiler
On the limitations of the contest, the only one I take slight issue with is the corruption of others after falling. While you do note attempting to convince other woodland creatures and fey to your cause, and you do have a decent diplomacy score, it doesn’t really speak corruption to me. Is he fallen? Sure. Is he a fallen corrupter? That second part doesn’t really add in to me. If he had some intimidate skill points to go along with that undead-conversion threat, or anything else that augmented it, maybe. It’s an arguable point, but to me it doesn’t do enough there.
Other than that, the entry meets all requirements.
The entry appears mechanically sound.
Competence & Power: 4.00 points
Spoiler
Competence. Highly competent at what he’s meant to be. I have no qualms there.
Power. Pretty nasty up through the CR 10-13 range; I could see my players absolutely wrecked by this bad boy. A lot beyond that depends on how far into shapechange shenanigans you’re willing to dip though, particularly at the highest CRs – I think without really cheesing out there, he’s underpowered for the 16-20 CR range.
Memorable Villainy: 4.00 points
Spoiler
I think any fight with this villain is likely to be memorable, just from the sheer frustration the players will be feeling if he is played to his potential. Between swarms of ghouls, jumping all over the place, and all the other tricks up his sleeve it’ll be a celebration to take him down.
Will he be remembered beyond that? That’s a tougher proposition. Given his territorial restriction, he’s less oppressive than someone more mobile – he can only really impact the players if they come to him. And while that can be a significant impact, it’s harder to make it truly stick. It can be done, but I think it takes an above average effort and requires the PCs to see more of his fall from good to evil directly – just hearing the story wouldn’t be enough.
Overall I’d say memorable for weeks to months afterward as a significant challenge, but the fallen aspect could miss.
Quaholom – 9.25 Points
Originality: 3.00 points
Spoiler
The prophesied champion converted to evil – shades of Anakin Skywalker in the background. Fiend of Possession was also something I was expecting to see coming into play.
Divine Minion was interested and unexpected, as was Couatl.
Elegance: 2.00 points
Spoiler
Unfortunately, I believe the Divine Minion template cannot be applied to a Couatl. If I’m reading the correct source material, it states that the only Outsiders it can be applied to are those that are humanoid-shaped.
It’s also a little questionable as to whether the Divine Minion template can/should be applied to an unwilling target. The RP indicates a willing servant or outsider minion; it doesn’t explicitly deny the possibility, but it could be a point of contention.
In terms of meeting the entry restrictions, I have trouble with the ability to corrupt others. FoP doesn’t extend far enough for possession shenanigans, so you’re basically limited to the selection of spells you listed. Is that enough to meet the requirement? It’s more towards influencing the PCs than corrupting others (which I read as developing minions/followers as well as targeting PCs), so I tend to say no.
Competence & Power: 2.25 points
Spoiler
Competence. Has some decent abilities to complete his overall 'corrupt the good for the glory of Set' goal. He is a little small scale, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Power. Decently strong, but could be better. He’s got enough to make a decent fight, and will take a fair amount of player forethought to take out. But I do think he’s a little under CR’d to pose a significant threat at the listed points. He's also a little schizophrenic. Is it melee combat (Couatl, wild shaping, Divine Minion)? Is it manipulation through enchantment (spells selected)? Is it direct damage (violate, empower spells)? It does ok at several things, but doesn’t stand out in any particular path.
Memorable Villainy: 2.00 points
Spoiler
Is he memorable? I think he has some potential there, in a head-slapping, “so THAT’S how he was doing all that” kind of way. But he’s not really got anything beyond that – and his background is too restrictive/specialized to get the PCs emotionally invested without a lot of work.
I think in the end he’s chapter-boss level of memorability; a satisfactory victory, but not one that really sticks.
Ivarr Deathborn – 10.00 Points
Originality: 4.00 points
Spoiler
Props for the undead hippogriff idea, even if recycled from another competition. While there are elements that I wouldn’t have expected in the build path, I will add that it’s a little overloaded in my opinion – too many dips.
A background as to where you’re going from a RP perspective would help as well.
Elegance: 2.50 points
Spoiler
In terms of the event restrictions, I can’t say that it meets all the requirements of the competition. Is just using the Lamia Belt soulmeld enough to really cause him to ‘fall’? In terms of the context of the competition, as presented I don’t think it does. It puts too much to individual interpretation to the falling mechanic – does one use do it? Some may say yes, some no. If no, how many? Ten? A hundred? It’s too uncertain for me to say it meets the requirement. Even beyond that, there’s not enough there for me to say that just spamming an evil soulmeld until you turn from good to evil really qualifies as a ‘fall’.
He also does not appear to meet the corruption-of-others requirement of the competition. Killing and reanimating is more enslavement than corruption.
Mechanically, the entry appears sound.
Competence & Power: 1.50 points
Spoiler
Competence. A tough one to judge without more info. What is his goal? To beat his enemies into submission and hear the lamentation of the women? Sure he can do that. But beyond that he doesn’t really have a stated objective/mission against which to judge how competent he is at it. I have to say…maybe?
Power. Low. He’s underpowered compared to his competitors here, likely due to being presented at PC ECLs rather than with CR related enhancements. At the higher ECLs he will have serious issue with spellcasters, and doesn’t really have an answer.
Memorable Villainy: 2.00 points
Spoiler
Background info could help, but just from the presentation I don’t see much that would make me as a player remember him. A small bump for potential of a memorable final confrontation – flying frothing berserker with undead horde could scare the pants off of PCs if presented right for an evening. But beyond that, it’s somewhat on to the next bad guy.
The Green Man – 17.75 Points
Originality: 4.50 points
Spoiler
A solid race/class combo here, both unique and nowhere on my radar coming in. Really like the background of the villain as well, although the fey-forest theme did recur in the competition.
Elegance: 4.50 points
Spoiler
The entry meets all requirements of the competition.
I’m probably missing something, but unless you’re just giving them as DM-fiat bonus feats to boost the CR I don’t see how you’re adding Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus at level one. Other than that, the entry is mechanically sound.
Competence & Power: 4.50 points
Spoiler
Competence. Highly competent. I love the blightspawned corruption element and the transformation into a true creature of the blighted forest. He’s a tough customer and I believe will be very efficient at defending his home/spreading the blight.
Power. I can’t argue with his strength. A touch weak on the early levels, but absolutely brutal in the middle and upper end, even without shapechange or wish cheese. I do think, since this is a CR-based competition, there’s some room for improvement by taking a more powerful racial component rather than a LA 0.
Memorable Villainy: 4.25 points
Spoiler
As with a few other entries, the problem I have with a villain that takes generations to develop his fall is that it really risks losing its impact. The PCs are liable to meet him only after he has already fallen, and so much of what makes a fallen hero strong is knowing the hero when he was good.
As a character, I think he still retains memorable features, and could easily be the centerpiece of an extended adventure. Particularly assaulting his forest, and the potential terrors therein, I think you could give PCs some serious nightmares if played properly. On the memorable scale, I’d say he falls in the months-to-years range.
Wilhelm Rothheim – 13.00 Points
Originality: 2.00 points
Spoiler
Undead conversion was one of my expected methods of falling, and did see other play in the competition. It’s a bit of a stretch that he’d be created as a vampire agent and not have his will enslaved, but even evil overlords make mistakes I suppose.
The background as a whole is also fairly typical. The lord-takes-over-kingdom is a staple of many D&D campaigns.
Elegance: 4.50 points
Spoiler
The entry meets all requirements of the competition.
You have a minor rules problem. You don’t qualify for Bounding Assault (requires +12 BAB, have +10 when you take it). I spot checked the rest and didn’t find any other problems, and it’s easily fixed by switching that feat with Skewer Foe; but it does require a note.
Competence & Power: 3.50 points
Spoiler
Competence. In terms of completing his objectives, I think he’s highly competent. Between beguiler and vampirism, he’s well able to manipulate almost anyone to do his will.
Power. This gives me a little pause. He has quite a few tricks, and he’s strong at the early-to-mid levels. The time stop from Swiftblade is nice – but at that point, PCs will be casting actual time stop. And Shapechange. And a number of nasty other spells. He’s giving up so much for that one capstone, and it’s really draining his ability to be competitive at the middle-to-upper levels without some serious minion support.
Memorable Villainy: 3.00 points
Spoiler
I think he can be very memorable, but it depends – as with other entries – when you introduce the PCs to him. They need to know him before the fall (viable) rather than coming in after the fact. The risk is that this story arc is a fairly commonly used one, so making him memorable is going to require extra attention.
As a default, I think he will be memorable through the end of the campaign and for weeks thereafter – but once the next game starts, he’ll fade into the realm of Villains Past.
Vat e Dzi – 17.00 Points
Originality: 5.00 points
Spoiler
I pity the GM who tries to pronounce his name to players. The character is intriguing, and an unexpected build. His fall is unique among the competition and avoids the most common stories. I really like the Lost template.
Elegance: 5.00 points
Spoiler
The entry meets all requirements of the competition.
The entry appears mechanically sound.
Competence & Power: 3.00 points
Spoiler
Competence. Definitely competent at inciting and buffing. His army will have some nasty potential.
Power. Power is the weak point. Early on he’s strong, but that power dissipates quickly. Granted, in the mid-to-high levels he can incite and gather a large number of followers; once he’s isolated, however, he’s going to be burned fast by a competent group of PCs. No spellcasting, no way of dealing with flight or other mid-high level tricks – he’s going to have to work very hard to avoid being flattened. It’s really nice buffing an army of followers, but he needs more defense tricks to avoid being targeted and annihilated.
Memorable Villainy: 4.00 points
Spoiler
The Lost hook provides some opportunity for memorability. His specialization as a character and the specifics of his fall do make empathy more difficult for your bog standard PC group, but the right heroic party could relate.
On my impromptu sliding scale, I think the character has a chance to be one that can be remembered for months – but it’s definitely not one size fits all.
Citlalmina – 15.00 Points
Originality: 2.50 points
SpoilerDruid to Blighter was on my short list of possible approaches, although you were the only one that ended up taking it on. I think it does need a little more development on the healer-to-undead-minionmancer path. I get the why, but that seems a pretty sharp dichotomy and doesn’t quite feel in tune.
I do like the early addition of the destiny feats. While maybe not optimal, it does add an interesting feel.
Elegance: 4.00 points
Spoiler
I don’t know that the conversion element is met well enough for the competition. Diplomacy is nice, but by itself is a bit subject to DM fiat as to the exact effectiveness. Mindless undead isn’t so much conversion as it is enslavement. That leaves werewolf bites, which converts to evil – but not necessarily to the villain’s purpose. It’s borderline, but I’m leaning towards outside the requirement.
The entry appears mechanically sound.
Competence & Power: 4.25 points
Spoiler
Competence. Reasonably competent. I think the healer by day, killer by night needs a little love on the former; bluff, more heal, other things that she could do to keep up the façade. Otherwise it could be a bit easy for her to be unmasked prematurely. The vengeance gig she can run with well.
Power. It’s hard to argue with a druid for early game power; throw werewolf on there and it’s a hell of a tough customer. Blighter is solid as well; between wild shaping, spellcasting, werewolf, and undead servants she can put up a good fight.
Memorable Villainy: 4.25 points
Spoiler
I think this has an understated potential to be very memorable. At first glance I thought that empathy would be difficult to encourage; I’ve been beating that drum with most entries, as I believe for a true fallen hero to be effective the fall needs to be impactful. However, bringing PCs into contact with her as a freedom fighter against a common enemy could make them love her as the daytime healer – enough to make her eventual betrayal a shock, despite it being both sudden and inevitable from her pre-game corruption.
If played right, I think this could be a story that lingers with players for months to years.
Throkk Steeltusk – 12.50 Points
Originality: 1.50 points
Spoiler
Durkon is that you? Vampire did see other play in the competition, and undead conversion was a reasonably expected method of meeting the requirements.
Elegance: 5.00 points
Spoiler
The entry meets all requirements of the competition.
The entry appears mechanically sound.
Competence & Power: 3.50 points
Spoiler
Competence. He’s a combat beast to be sure. But what is his goal (beyond ripping things into tiny pieces)? There’s a brief reference to leading an army in conquest, so let’s consider that. On the combat side, he clearly can get the job done. But his army is going to be limited to those he enthralls, which does have some deficiencies. He definitely can’t lead an empire. But in a ‘burn the world and salt the earth’ style, he can get the job done.
Power. Very strong early, and even in the middle levels he could easily TPK your bog standard party if they allow him to dictate the terms of the engagement. The Black Blood cultist is nice, but it is somewhat redundant early on (claws, bite) when what your template is giving you is factored in. At higher levels, spellcasters will be his bane – and while he has solid defenses, he’s going to have to be proactive to survive.
Memorable Villainy: 2.50 points
Spoiler
He almost has to be a player’s character that gets vamped, doesn’t he? Just existing isn’t enough to build a connection with any random group of PCs; and without that connection, the fallen hero loses 80% of its impact. If not for that intensely personal connection to the players, he’s just another vampire. Throkk suffers from this more than other entries I’ve commented on the need for PC relation, just by nature of the vampire. Very few people choose that path willingly; they’re vamped and turned evil, much like Throkk. What makes him different without that connection? The answer is, unfortunately, nothing.
So if connected, it could be a pinnacle story; if not, barely memorable.
And that's a wrap.
As a side note, I really enjoyed this competition; well done all. Even if I was critical, I enjoyed every entry and have flagged some elements from pretty much each one that I plan on throw at my players. On their behalf, I curse you. On my own, I simply laugh maniacally.
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2016-05-09, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2012
- Location
- Necro-equestrian Pugilism
- Gender
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Woohoo! Thanks Rama!
Before I consume that delicious post, do our other potential judges (Mahonri Violist and GreatWyrmGold) have an update, or has Real LifeTM struck again? I ask because it's always delightful to have a multiple judge round.Last edited by Deadline; 2016-05-09 at 04:26 PM.
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2016-05-09, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Location
- Next to the Mandolinist
Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Oh, no!
You're right.
I missed the deadline to judge. The large part of it was I can't really think of a way to judge Build Elegance and Competence and Power and be fair. I mean, I can do my best to judge them but I just don't really have a good frame of reference for judging mechanics.
I could probably finish judging them all within six or so hours. (First, though, I've got to send an e-mail to my research advisor, so.)
Rama, I really liked your explanations of the scores. They were very clean, cool, and interesting in spite of just being commentary. Good job.Favorite sports:
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2016-05-09, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Sweet, judgings! Thanks a bunch, Rama.
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2016-05-10, 03:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
So I am going to follow Rama's example and start off stating how I'm judging them. First, Originality: If it was a concept I had never thought of before, 5. If it took an old concept in a new direction, 4. If I found it boring and overused, 2. If it were a story villain and it would make me want to put the book down with how overused it was, 1.
Spoiler: table
Kobayashi 4 Captain Planet! I love him. I’ve had and read similar concepts, but this one took it farther than usual and into a showboating guerrilla fighter. Quaholom the Possessor 5 Maybe I’m reading the wrong stories, but it felt new to me. Ivarr Deathborn 3 Honestly, reading it gave me the impression “I’ve read this story before” but it was kind-of fresh? If that makes sense. The Green Man 5 I don’t know why I’ve never thought of “spirit-shaman who asks a demon for help” but it makes too much sense. Good King Wilhelm Rothheim 2 Now, I love vampires. Don’t get me wrong. It’s just that modern vampires always seem to fit into angsty teenage vampires or cunning noblemen now, and this one fits into the latter group. վատ է ձի 5 Oh! Actually, felt very new. Citlalmina the Nagual 2 I have literally thought of this idea before. Fits all the tropes, too. Throkk Steeltusk 3 I’m sorry. I couldn’t decide whether this felt new or this felt old.
Next, build elegance. I'm not sure if I can judge this all that well, as it deals with mechanics, which I'm bad at. So, again 3 is the standard. Builds that make a lot of sense immediately looking at them are given a 4. Builds that really obfuscate how they work are given a 2 instead. Likewise, a build that I can't understand by looking at it gets a 1 and a build that practically explains itself gets a 5. Unlike Rama, I'm going to consider being turned undead counts as corruption because that's what I initially understood when the contest instructions were laid out. Not saying that Rama's wrong, but rather that I think it's good to have a diversity of opinions between judges.Spoiler: table
I'm so sorry. I told y'all I would be a bad judge. It's just, I was 3/4 of the way through judging them when I realized that I had given the same score to everyone so far, and I couldn't think of a way to adjust my scoring criteria that would give people different scores. If there's somebody who only wanted to judge the mechanics of the builds, feel free to throw out my sameness in judging and replace it with that. Except there's not really all that much time left to judge anyway, right?Kobayashi 4 Quaholom the Possessor 4 Ivarr Deathborn 4 The Green Man 4 Good King Wilhelm Rothheim 4 վատ է ձի 4 Citlalmina the Nagual 4 Throkk Steeltusk 4
Competence and Power: Okay, I am honestly tempted to just give everyone the same score. [Side note: I wrote this all before scoring Elegance.] But then, that would make the competition favor characters who were built without power and competence in mind. I don't know what I'm supposed to judge it relative to. Relative to PCs at that level? I have very little sense of context for that. Relative to which one could win in a fight? Then it favors spellcasters and other powerful classes. Oh! Okay, just thought of something. A build gets 1 point if I can't find any glaring weaknesses. It gets up to another 2 points if it has a goal relative to the scale I feel it should have at that CR, and the final up-to-2 points if it I feel it has the strength to accomplish its stated goal.Spoiler: table
editnote: the reason why I left this table blank is because I somehow ended up giving everyone a 4 again, even though I had set out more detailed criteria.
I am bad at finding glaring weaknesses, and I don’t want to cheat by judging based off of another judge’s comments.Kobayashi Quaholom the Possessor Ivarr Deathborn The Green Man Good King Wilhelm Rothheim վատ է ձի Citlalmina the Nagual Throkk Steeltusk
Also. Nothing has changed from when I judged Elegance: I am still bad at judging mechanics. This news is not new. I could not find any weaknesses at all in any of them, so I moved on to looking for appropriate goals, which I felt everyone had, already giving a 3, and then I was trying to judge "strength to accomplish their goals" which I realized I would be terrible at judging and either give everyone in the end the same score.
Seriously, I am bad at judging mechanics. I gave everyone a "4" again. At least in the Memorable Villainy category, I've already set it up so I can't give everyone the same score.
Memorable Villainy: literally what I'm going to do is rank them from the one whose villainy I find most memorable to the one I find least memorable. The one on the top of the list gets a 5, the next gets a 4.5, the next gets a 4, and so on.Spoiler: table
I would've given reasons behind why I gave what score to whom, but I literally just listed them in order of which ones I found most memorable.Kobayashi 5 Quaholom the Possessor 2.5 Ivarr Deathborn 2 The Green Man 4.5 Good King Wilhelm Rothheim 4 վատ է ձի 3.5 Citlalmina the Nagual 3 Throkk Steeltusk 1.5
Total
Note: My completely inability to judge mechanics probably has some sort of effect on these final scores. Feel free to run the statistics to see what effect it caused.
Once again, my bias for how much I love Captain Planet and the nature theme shows through. At least I'm not the only judge. Basically, the only real thing I've proved is how bad I am at judging mechanics.Kobayashi 17 Quaholom the Possessor 15.5 Ivarr Deathborn 13 The Green Man 17.5 Good King Wilhelm Rothheim 14 վատ է ձի 16.5 Citlalmina the Nagual 13 Throkk Steeltusk 12.5 Last edited by 5a Violista; 2016-05-10 at 03:54 AM.
Favorite sports:
Fencing
Football (Soccer)
Figure Skating
(and basically everything else that starts with 'f')ALSO! Come roleplay FFRPG in the Nexus!Nexus Characters.
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2016-05-10, 04:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Wow, we have two judges! Thanks to you both.
My Honorable Mention goes to Quaholom
EDIT: After reading Mahonri's judging, it felt a bit like old school Iron Chef. That might get a polarizing response...
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2016-05-10, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
As you might have guessed: Disputes!
For Rama:
Originally Posted by The green man
Originally Posted by QuaholonOriginally Posted by Kobayashi
Originally Posted by ben-zayb
I was already afraid we wouldn't get any judges. So I am glad he did step up. Seeing that there is almost no explanation given, the feedback may not be the most sophisticated, though. Still I think any feedback is better than none. I don't think disputing the scores makes sense, as there is little explanation given and since this is rather unusual, I'll suggest this: I don't want to throw away the effort shown, so we keep the scores. I will ignore any disputes to the scores as I feel it is pointless to discuss opinions and feelings. If contestants are unhappy with this: remember, there are no actual prizes, we are all here to have some fun and I don't want more contests to die out because we scare off judges by endless disputes.
If you think this is way out of the spirit of this contest let me know.
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2016-05-10, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
I would rather see a re-done judging and have to wait a few days for it than discount the judge.
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2016-05-10, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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2016-05-10, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
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2016-05-10, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
I think letting the scores stand is the best way to go about it. Some judging is better, some is worse. That's just how it is.
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2016-05-10, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
One more for Rama:
Originally Posted by Throkk steeltusk
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2016-05-10, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
It looks like you meant to copy a quote from Throkk (Remember that... remember that what?), but it didn't get copied because you have to quote-pyramid deliberately.
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2016-05-11, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Another one for Rama:
Originally Posted by Good King Wilhelm Rothheim
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2016-05-12, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Responses:
The Green Man - Score adjustment +.50 points
Spoiler
Gotcha. I figured it was something like that that I was missing. +.50 to Elegance.
Quaholon - Score adjustment +.50 points
Spoiler
Elegance - +.50 points
The way I look at things, the more you're relying on individual DM discretion to make something work the more problem I'm going to have with it from an elegance perspective.
In terms of the humanoid shape, the text I'm referencing for the change shape ability says specifically: "The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form." So I think you've got a significant argument that it doesn't work. That's not to say you can't make an argument it should; but you've put it in a questionable realm of DM ruling. And that's what I penalize elegance for.
On the RP and the hound example, I still think it's questionable. The hound archon example is a valid point, albeit with no information as to whether then hound was already a corrupted servant of Set. That said, it's a cool enough idea that I'm wiling to give it the benefit of the doubt and adjust. +.50 points to elegance
Lastly, the corruption of PCs. The contest requirement states as follows: "The character must be able to "corrupt" others after falling. This means actively pursuing to convince others to join your now evil cause or force their cooperation." You're adding violate to cooperative metamagic, and making the case it renders them evil. Laying aside the legality of that ruling, it's not really doing what the contest requires. Turning evil? Sure. But just flat evil does not equal cooperative or adhering to your Set-worshipping ideals. So I can't give you credit for it.
Power
Mostly addressed above, I think you're overselling the evil corruption aspect of violate spell. Between that and just straight up comparison to other entries, power score stands.
Memorable Villiany
To be frank, this is personal opinion as I stated in explaining how I score. As I explained, I try to look at it from a player's aspect. If I'm run against this opponent over the course of a campaign, as presented is he going to be something I remember? Do I care about his fall from heroism? Will we be talking and reminiscing about him long after the game is done?
My opinion is no, for the reasons I listed in judging. If you wish to discuss it further, I'd be happy to via PM post-reveal.
Kobayashi - Score adjustment +1.25 points
Spoiler
Originality - +1.0 points
I agree. In looking over my notes, I can't see anything that would have prompted a difference on that front. I think I typoed your score, they should be the same.
Elegance
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a really cool idea. I love what you're doing with the tearing-out-of-hearts. But I think there's a difference between blanket 'corruption' and 'actively pursuing to convince others to join your now evil cause or force their cooperation'. It really comes down to whether killing someone, raising them as undead under your direct control counts under the latter half of that. Personally, that's where I've kinda drawn the line in saying it doesn't. Another reader might very well assess differently. No adjustment.
Power - +.25 points
I agree the shapechange is very strong. I just think that beyond that, you're lagging. Let's take CR 15 as example. You're casting 5th level druid spells; your opposition is in the 7th level range, assuming a challenging encounter setup. And the higher it goes, the more stark that difference becomes to the point that you almost have to cheese the shapechange to keep up. Granted, I'm not factoring in a base and minions there - which can change things dramatically to be sure. But I don't think that's reasonable to try to project and calculate in either. To be fair though, upon review, I think I did penalize a little too harshly and am adjusting accordingly.
Memorability
While the boss fight itself does come into play, I'm looking as much (if not more) on everything leading up to it. If anything, I think the boss fight is what makes Kobayashi memorable as hell. It's what gets you there that I have more trouble seeing as sticking, particularly with the fallen hero aspect. No adjustment.
Throkk - No adjustment
Spoiler
Originality
As I said in my score explanation post, if it was an 'obvious' way to go about the fallen hero path, I discount originality. Vampirism was one of the first I thought of. The teammate sacrificing himself against a vampire to save his friends also has strong parallels to Durkon's fall (hence the admittedly tongue in cheek comment - I know they're not identical, but the scenarios are very similar). It's not just that you're a vampire, it's that you're a vampire, AND vampire was presented in multiple entries, AND it was on my expected list, AND the situation bears very close resemblance to multiple depictions in other sources. No adjustment
Power
Yes, everyone has a problem with spellcasters. The question becomes, what does he do to overcome that deficiency? Other entries address it, either through spellcasting themselves or other tools in their kit. Throkk does not have an answer.
I also assume a reasonable level of competence in the opposition, and presume that Death Ward will be liberally applied to resolve energy drain threats. Yes you can spam minions by vamping commoners, which could make for an interesting story - although that will end up a recipe for suicide as well, if he vamps so many that they run out of blood to eat. Either way, I took those options into account in my judging. No adjustment.
Memorability
As I noted in a previous response, this really is the most subjective. In my opinion, you'd really have to sell an NPC to make the players care about him enough for an impactful story. That means a DMPC that's traveling with the party, most likely, which runs the usual risks attendant with a DMPC. I stand by my synopsis; if you can make it work with a PC falling, could be awesome. Otherwise, has difficulties being different from any other vampire story. No adjustment
Wilhelm - Score adjustment +.50 points
Spoiler
You are absolutely correct, I whiffed that one. +.50 points to eleganceLast edited by Rama; 2016-05-12 at 01:07 PM.
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2016-05-12, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-05-13, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Villainous Competition XI: the higher they rise the harder they fall
Follow up for Rama:
Originally Posted by Quaholom
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2016-05-13, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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