Reassembly II: Creatures of Light and Darkseid (M&M 3e)

[Quellian-dyrae]

Katie could tell that Sarah's grandfather was disappointed in something kinda related to Sarah's initial response to him. She wasn't entirely sure what, but she had a strong guess.

~Psst, Sarah,~ Katie sent to her alone. Sarah was brilliant at many things, but there was still some stuff she kinda needed to learn. ~Give your grandfather a hug and tell him you love him and you're happy to see him,~ she coached.

She gave a little smile as Ta'li began casting, even with the kinda sharp exchange between her and Sarah's grandfather. A Misfit, a Kang-ganger, and the Talisman all working together despite their differences to try to make the world a better place. There was a reason Katie hadn't given up on humanity yet.

[Thokk_Smash]

To a certain point, the endings to the time periods have been decreasing in amusement for Zach. To be fair, nothing can really top literally flipping a god the bird while simultaneously sh*tting all over his goals and directly causing an orgy to end all orgies. And even the party with the Immortal Weapons was fun, in its own way: they'd had some great stories and were rowdy as Zach could get, with even more staying power.

White Cobra staying behind...it had been sad, to a point. River Cobra's death was noble, White Cobra's reason for staying understandable, and most of all Zach had not been able to develop a connection with her nearly as deep as the Misfits. And so it was with an attitude more somber than his norm, he offered a hand for White Cobra to shake. "Not that I need to say it, but: take care of yourself, White Cobra. It was wild."

Through the goodbyes, he keeps a sharp eye on Potence. He could still remember clearly her reaction to the thought of Ronin disowning her as a friend, of losing him emotionally if not physically. She'd been a damn wreck. And yet, with one of her dearest friends staying in an alternate universe, Potence seems as chipper as ever--perhaps even more so. That...was unlikely to be her true feelings, regardless of the circumstances of White Cobra's departure. If Potence had come to think of the Misfits as anything close to resembling a family, then the loss of even one of them would be horrible.

And so, in the moments before Saturn punched in the coordinates for Wallachia, he'd placed a gentle hand on Potence's shoulder. He knows nothing could've been said to him to soothe him after his father's passing, and so he does not try words of silver or honey; simply a firm presence for her to focus on if she needs it.

And even now, as they rest after stopping Wallachia's Doomlock, he can't find it in himself to be gloomy or frown. How could he? He has an audience who literally is ignorant of all types of modern music, including his favorite genre. There's no way he can be depressed when he's tutoring someone on the finer aspects of musical enjoyment.

He gives a mental laugh at Madalina's gleeful thoughts of torturing Dr Doom. Well, if anyone deserved it... ~"That's just the tip of the iceberg, Maddy. And despite everything the Turks've done, y'know what else the people of Wallachia can say?"~

~"They're still standing, after all this time!"~
~"Picking up the pieces of their lives"~
~"Despite the Turks outside"~

~"And like I said, rock is more than just verve and 'in your face'-ness. Take a listen:

~"If someone else is suffering enough oh to write it down"~
~"When every single word makes sense"~
~"Then it's easier to have those songs around"~
~"The kick inside is in the line that finally gets to you"~
~"And it feels so good to hurt so bad"~
~"And suffer just enough to sing the blues"~

~"Sad songs, they say so much"~

And so he continues until they begin to make preparations for another time warp. He's reminded just where they're going next--Antietam, which apparently (if Saturn and Potence's Shared Awareness thoughts are true, which they absolutely are), is the bloodiest battle in American history. More blood...yay. He narrows his eyes in a grimace as they warp, preparing himself for the stench and sight of blood.

On the plus side: That smell and sight aren't there, at least at the time they arrive. On the downside: apparently Saturn's grandfather is here, and the ringer Kang had brought in. Seriously, another Saturn? Isn't one manipulative time-traveler enough?

Still, the direction the conversation initially takes brings a deeper frown to his face. Once the conversation proper dies down, he takes a few steps forward and does what he does best: open his big blabbermouth and start talking. "So this guy's your grandfather from another timeline, yeah? The guy who raised you, taught you everything he knew about saving the world, raised you after your own parents died...and that's how you say hi after you haven't seen him since his death? You get a chance to talk to family after their death, and...and you just..."

Thats it. That's what it'd take to make Zach temporarily speechless. "You're goddamn cold," he mutters, before turning back to Sylvester. "And you! First of all, no one says that. No one. Second, how can we trust that you're totally on the up-and-up? Kang'll be expecting a unified world unified under him, presumably with statues and gold and whatever else a rat bastard like him wants. He wouldn't have brought you in if he thought you wouldn't give him full control when all's said and done, unless we're missing a very important bit of info. So either you're a good liar and Kang bought it, or else he thinks he's got a way to make you go along with his plans. Which is it, Sylvie?"

He gives the man a stubborn stare, but makes no move to bring to bear his electricity. This isn't really an interrogation; even he's not enough of a bastard to start a fight with a teammate's family. But he does want answers, and he wants them quick.

[SuperCracker]

Ronin

Frederick didn’t consider things to be going downhill at all. Uncomfortable as his environs may have grown, he was doing good for someone. It brought him a deep, abiding satisfaction. Every person spared a grisly death; every innocent life that would have the chance to go on… it may have peaked with China, but the things they were doing were good. He may not have been a history buff or someone who played these chess moves out for hundreds of years; but he knew. Despite being tired, having fought hard each day for the better part of a week; he was ready to go to the next time period.

Antietam. Fred knows this part of history well. He knows exactly what’s going to happen soon. They find themselves facing another Saturn; one who speaks in a tone very similar to Sarah Saturn. This only deepens his suspicions about this man. However, Fred isn’t an indiscriminate killer. He had no reason to go for Roosevelt’s blood; and he has no reason to go for Sylvester Saturn’s, either. In fact, Ronin can appreciate what the man claims to be trying to do. The X-Men from a dark future timeline intervened in Fred’s own and saved the world… But the X-Men didn’t have a Doomlock. They didn’t erase those in their own timeline... for good or ill.

“The Saturns are smart,” he said, “I’ll give you both that. But there are too many variables for you to tell me what will happen when we go back. What if there’s no Kitty?” He looked to Katie, “Or no Kayla?” Then to Zach. “…Or no us at all. And we get the added bonus of Kang the f***ing Conqueror as the Supreme Ruler.”

He folded his arms. “I’m fine with stopping this fight and ending this war after the Doomlock is gone.”

Frederick felt the guilt of being selfish… he’d stated his primary worry. What if the people he loved were just… gone? Butterfly effect and all.

[CandyLaser]

Sarah gave Katie an annoyed glance. ~We're not that kind of family, Katie. Besides, I'm not sure if I trust him yet.~ It was a bit disconcerting, actually. Sarah had always thought that her grandfather told her everything he knew about the crises to come. If he had withheld information, she'd be quite upset. Of course, she was fully aware that she did that very thing with some regularity. That just made her more upset. She ignored Zach. She had to deal with the presence of her grandfather, not justify herself to someone she barely knew.

She turned to face Sylvester fully. "We've got some time now. I believe you when you say you've got ulterior motives in working with Kang. He made me a similar offer, and I declined. It's not clear to me that this is the only way, or even the best way, to deal with Darkseid and what comes after. It's also not clear that the world ruled by Kang is better than the world you came from. Unlike my friend Ronin, I'm willing to let the Doomlock stand here - but I'd like you to convince me that it's the right play. We'll need to take care of Kang, too."

As she awaited her grandfather's reply, she bent her impressive intellect to the task of predicting the future. Just what would happen if things went as Sylvester described at Antietam?

Spoiler: Rolls

Show

Let's do some precognition. Here's a perception roll, boosted by Polymath: (1d20+10)[14]

[Quellian-dyrae]

Katie blinked at Sarah's response. She...wasn't entirely sure what to do with that.

She just kinda nodded to what Madalina was saying. Yeah she...didn't really want to think about it. I'm...not so great with the mind magic, Katie thought to her. And before we do anything, we have to make sure it won't further Kang's plot and end up making things worse.

The others were all making good points as well. They had to be extremely cautious with any manipulation of their timeline, even the most apparently beneficial ones. Obviously, people like Kang and Teth-Cobra and Darkchilde couldn't be trusted to influence the timeline. Katie was willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, but there was the benefit of the doubt and then there was handing over the keys to the kingdom, where in this example the "kingdom" was "all of history". And she did get the sense that Sarah's grandfather wasn't feeling as confident in the situation as he was trying to project. Katie was willing to take it as a given that Kang's plan would end badly if allowed to see fruition. Maybe she was wrong there, but given the man's past actions, the risk was simply too high.

But if they could work together and come up with a way to ensure a positive change to history...Katie was torn. On the one hand, she didn't believe in standing idle out of fear of unforeseen consequences. You do the best you can at every moment. If she had a chance to stop a lot of death, that was the right thing to do, come what may. The future was always uncertain, even when it was where you were coming from. On the other hand, in the general sense, she honestly didn't believe anyone could be trusted with the power to influence the past. It was too much power with too much potential for catastrophe.

But that was philosophical. Here, now, they were in the past. They were choosing the course of history whether they wanted to or not. It was just a question of whether they chose for it to stay on its current course, or take another.

Except, Katie realized, for the fact that cause and effect aren't following entirely normal rules here.

Paradox. No one had really mentioned it, but it was something that came up in time travel fiction all the time. Fred had asked, what if something they did meant Kayla never existed? Well, that would also mean, Katie herself would never exist. Which would mean she could never have come back in time to change the past. Which would mean she did exist. Infinite loop, 404 error, and no one knows what would happen. Schroedinger's Cat was a parody, that sort of quantum physics exists-and-doesn't-exist-simultaneously thing wasn't supposed to happen on a macro scale. So maybe the universe auto-corrects itself because time is an illusion and it's the human understanding of cause and effect that's flawed, or maybe like a single compiling error in a program that one glitch causes the whole thing to crash, where in this case the program is the entire universe.

And that...might have been that, for her. Maybe the chance of creating a paradox was extremely small. And the results of a paradox if one occurred completely unknown. But it didn't matter. You do the best you can in any moment, but no positive result for any given person, group, or even planet is worth even the tiniest most vanishing risk of destroying the entire universe.

"I think Fred might be right," she said suddenly, not frantic or anything, but with quiet urgency in her voice. "We can't predict every possible result of what we do, but I think the potential gains are outweighed by the potential risks. I mean...none of us actually know what would happen if we created a paradox, do we?" Hey, the Saturns might. If they could convince her that the end of the universe was entirely, 100%-without-rounding off the table, then maybe she'd rethink. But...if there were even a fleeting chance of it, altering the past had to be a completely off-the-table course of action.

[herodofcows]

Spoiler: Sarah

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It's hard to say whether Sylvester is on the money here. Presumably he's had almost three whole minutes to make these calculations and preparations, so you're rule-of-thumbing where he's been able to actually work through the problem. That said, once you break it down . . .

"It'll end the Civil War three years early": Supra-90% odds. Targeted use of futuristic tech on this battlefield would cripple Lee's forces, keep the Union soldiers in fighting trim, and ensure that the North's industrial advantage could steamroll the South that much faster. Hell, this battle gives the possibility of taking out General Lee and General Jackson in one fell swoop, essentially disabling the scorching engine of the Confederacy's unorthodox offensive strategies. Projected end date of the war becomes February 1863, with substantially fewer lives lost and much less cultural cachet created by the "Lost Cause of the Confederacy". Side notes: Supra-50% odds "Gone With The Wind" doesn't get written, Ted Nugent and Lynyrd Skynyrd never achieve national fame, Kid Rock never breaks out of hip-hop.

"Ameliorate the Disassembly": Supra-50% odds. End of the Civil War without ensuing cultural or economic fallout shows signs towards improved American treatment of minority groups (including mutants). The X-Men would no longer be the sole mutant advocacy group, but social circumstances are now far more in favor of Wanda Maximoff getting the psychological help she would require when the Joker kidnaps her children, if indeed he exists at all (which is in itself questionable, but projecting on the Joker is notoriously difficult based on limited information).

"Hamstring Darkseid": Conditional. Assuming the Disassembly is ameliorated and that you're right on the calculations that you've made about an early end to the Civil War, you've certainly got better odds at more varied and well-adjusted heroes within the superhuman community. In terms of creating the kind of inherent global unity that fighting Darkseid ostensibly requires, this is a case of too-little-too-late. At best, it creates a less-militaristic United States, which eliminates some global pressures while creating others. Without any additional work beyond "let the Union win Antietam", this one's a bit of a wash.

"Make it so that the Heroic Age survives everything that comes after Darkseid's defeat": THIS is a Hail Mary play. It's enough of a shakeup of the grounding social fabric that Superhuman Registration would mostly be a given, which would take the rug out from under the Pantheon Sieges and the War of Light and Fire. Does that stop the Flashpoint? It certainly could, but that's by no means a given. At best, it changes things up enough that the odds of everything going the same as his notes say become MINISCULE.

Sylvester frowns a little as everyone voices their objections and shoots another glance at Sarah.

"Kang is a child scrambling on unfamiliar ground," he says eventually, "He's got a set of timeline parameters that he's comfortable trying to conquer, and Darkseid's incursion in Universe 616 makes his victory nearly impossible. He brought me on when you took out one of his soldiers too early because he knew I'd know how to compensate, and our goals are . . . mathematically compatible. I want a set of parameters that extends the Heroic Age. He wants a set of parameters that give him a road to potential conquest. Both of those require similar boundary conditions, so . . . here we are. You will eventually have to deal with Kang, in all probability, but you'll do it with a set of historical and superhuman conditions working in your favor.

"As far as alterations in minutiae . . . well, no question, it'll be a problem to overcome. But we've got a binding mage, you four, and a couple of hyperintellects on hand. I'm pretty sure we could avoid excessive demographic change. You might see some shifts in personality or widespread social modifications, but we could probably figure out a way to ensure supra-50% population conservation. Shock, we'd have even better odds with people relating to superhumans and public figures. We could work on it."

He smiles cynically as Potence brings up the possibility of paradox.

"We're in deep with this timeline talk, so I'll make it basic: we're all out of time right now, so we are as we are. Call it us-Prime. If we do something that would alter the conditions that created us-Prime, us-Prime still exists until we go back to our own timelines. Once that happens, the changes catch up. That's how you have temporal doppelgängers, time travellers going back to kill themselves or make sure they're born, and probably half the craziness that the Flash and the FF get up to. It'll create the odd pocket universe or unstable timeline, but the multiverse will hold together."

He shakes his head ruefully as the dawn light begins to shine over the trees. A bugle sounds, and drums begin to pound, their beat and rap rising up from the deserted farm fields while Sharpsburg begins to bustle with hushed-breath life. Below, you can hear the sound of marching feet and the calls of officers assembling their companies. Below, the Army of the Potomac is beginning to form up in the trees and along the fields.

"We're losing the lede, though. I tried to arrange this so we can brainstorm. Enough of me justifying a flawed plan. What are your thoughts? You must have had a plan going forward to deal with Kang and Darkseid, right?"

This last question seems pointedly addressed to Sarah, even though his eyes don't linger on her this time.

[Quellian-dyrae]

"Okay, cool, next," Katie said as she heard the bugle. "I have a telepathic spell that will allow us to all communicate at a hundred times normal speed, and freely share knowledge with each other. I think I can push that speed up further by applying some metamagic principles. But I need a thaumaturgic link to people to include them in it. A lock of hair or some blood or something. I have that for all of us, so if you two can give me a lock of your hair or whatever, we can actually give this discussion the subjective time and attention it deserves."

[SuperCracker]

Ronin

Fred listened, at least willing to let himself be proven wrong despite his serious, serious misgivings. And then Sylvester said something; something that he cannily seemed to bury in between reassurances and promises of positive outcomes.

“…we could probably figure out a way to ensure supra-50% population conservation.”

That told him everything he needed to know. “Fifty percent?” He said, his voice coming out forcefully. “You could maybe preserve fifty percent of the people who exist in our present?” Every other person… potentially gone, not counting just how much they would change. The only thing stronger than Ronin’s code is his love for friends and family. *See his restraint in the Hand Downtime. Even if he didn’t always show it, they made his life worth living. Bushido was a reason to fight, to suffer, to die. The fate of the world was another good reason. Aunt Judith, Kitty, the Old Man, Kurt, Wanda, Katie – and all the others that would take too long to list; they were his reason to live.

“No. The answer’s no.”

Ronin was ready to fight. He was ready to fight all of the Misfits if he had to, if they were at all buying what he was selling.

Spoiler

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Btw, scanning Sylvester with True Sight. Hit me up with them powers/weaknesses plz.

[Quellian-dyrae]

Katie wasn't anywhere near certain herself, but she wanted to at least weigh the options. "Wait wait Ronin wait!" Katie said. She was starting to get a specific tone of voice for when she felt Fred was acting too hastily. "Supra means greater than fifty percent. And...I honestly don't know what population conservation entails. I mean, does it mean, everyone not population-conserved just totally winks out of existence? Because okay yeah obviously that won't work. But...if it just means they might be fundamentally different in some way, that might be another story. We're saving lives here. I...I have to assume that lives saved are a positive thing. It's like...you asked what if we do this and Kayla's gone. But, what if we do this and one of the people we save has a great great grandchild who turns out to be this amazing brain surgeon and he saves my mom? I mean, Kayla and I would absolutely be different, but...probably not for the worse, you know?"

"And that was assuming his original plan, which he already said he doesn't want to do. So maybe we can all come up with something better. Or maybe nothing we could come up with would outweigh the risks. I don't know. I don't know all the potential consequences good or bad. Maybe none of us do. Maybe this is just way too risky to even try. But we have the potential to do a really good thing here and I think we should at least discuss it - thoroughly - before deciding one way or another. Is...is that okay? Can we do that?"

Spoiler: Fred Only

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~Or, at the very least, can we hold off on completely rejecting the premise until after I get the thaumaturgic link that will allow me to scry and track the Talisman freely? Because that...seems like a good thing to have one way or another, you know? I mean, just in case.~

[SuperCracker]

Ronin

Spoiler: Because this mental stuff goes so fast: to Katie Only

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~I'm not risking everyone who exist now, in our present for this man's gambit. Listen to him... everyone you've ever known and loved is a statistic to him. He's trying to prey on us with impossible predictions and hopes. Maybe your mother is fine, maybe she isn't. It's too big of a maybe to risk everyone we know.

The best we can do is kill the Doomlock and then stop this war. Maybe things turn out differently in this world. But we don't wipe out anyone's reality to do it.~

[Quellian-dyrae]

Spoiler: Fred

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~Listen...I'm not saying your conclusions are wrong. But...I don't think we have enough information to support that we are in a situation where your conclusions apply, yet. We have to know what he actually means when he says population conservation. Yes, if it means people who exist in our time just suddenly wink out or whatever, then of course, we have to destroy the Doomlock, because that would be like...like sacrificing people to perform a resurrection ritual or something and that's just wrong no matter how many people it saves.~

~But if it only means that people will have different experiences which will organically lead to changes from what we know but that will primarily be better...that's different. And it's not Sarah's grandfather preying on anything. It's...look, back at Troy, I...I thought that the timeline had to be preserved as a goal in itself. That history as we knew it was the important thing. And because of that I...I was wrong Fred! Preserving the history that we know and are comfortable with isn't what matters. Helping others matters. Saving lives matters. Making the world a better place matters. And...I don't think I would really, across the board, trust anyone, even us, with this sort of responsibility. It's...too much. History isn't supposed to be decided like this. But we're here and we're making a decision one way or another so we have to make the very very best decision that we can, just like if we were in the present. Because it's the same thing. We can't ever know for sure what the consequences of our decision will be, but that doesn't mean we let that paralyze us. It means we try to estimate as best we can what they'll be and decide what risks are worth taking.~

~If any change here will erase the lives of people in the present, you are completely right, we can't do it. But I think we should make sure that's the case before we pass up a chance to do good. That's all I'm asking. That we discuss the matter and make sure we're making the right decision.~

~If you can't do that, if you can't trust Sarah's grandfather to give us accurate information, or you think that even if he says it's safe he might be wrong, or whatever, then...I don't want to fight with you. I'll support that choice. But...I honestly think that that would be making a unilateral decision with incomplete information, and might cause more harm than good.~

[SuperCracker]

Ronin

Spoiler: For Katie

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~You just said it. It's about estimating the risks. And I don't believe he can. He's a genius; not omniscient.

You know me better than most. I'm willing to die for any fight to save someone's life. I'm willing to give everything that I have.

I'm not willing to make that choice for countless others.~

He left out the part where his connection to Sarah Saturn meant nothing to him in regards to gauging trustworthiness.

[Quellian-dyrae]

Spoiler: Fred

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~Which means he can't tell us what the exact results will be...but, I mean, he's a scientist who studies time travel. He could literally go back in time a thousands times, make certain strictly positive changes, go forward in time to his present in the newly created universe, and observe the changes, and through that come to a highly scientifically sound conclusion regarding the potential scope of both positive and negative consequences that you can expect from making beneficial alterations to the past. I mean, I'm not saying that means we should take him at his word or go along with his plan, but...Fred, seriously, what is the harm in spending a few subjective minutes, a few real-time seconds, maybe even fractions of a second, just talking about it?~

[SuperCracker]

Ronin

Spoiler: For Katie

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~Science can do many things, but it can’t foresee the endless ripples of causality that would happen. He could spend his entire life traveling back and forth to get it right… One individual can’t fathom the changes made to people, their lives, their existence. Does he know the name and face of every person living on Earth right now? Do you?

He could never determine all of the effects of his changes, even incremental. This dangerous, and if he starts down this path with a Doomlock active, we’re all stuck with it.

Talk to him all you want, but I’ve heard what I needed to hear. There's a terrible risk to this that he's trying to minimize. Don’t put on Rose-Colored glasses, no matter how perfect he promises the world will be.~

[CandyLaser]

"Of course I have plans to deal with Darkseid. I've been trying to lay the groundwork for them, but things like Kang and the Skrulls keep pulling me away." As she mentioned the Skrulls, her eyes flicked over to the Talisman for the merest fraction of a second. It was about as close as Sarah ever got to subtlety. "Anyway, I don't like the numbers on this one, Grandfather. We can probably avoid the Disassembly, or at least lessen its effects, but Darkseid still comes in just as hard. And it introduces too much uncertainty to say what happens with Flashpoint.

Ultimately, we're too far back in the past to get what we want. I think we can stop the SHRA in our timeline directly. In your timeline, did you discover that Tony Stark was a Skrull infiltrator? We did, and we've got the real Stark back. It was the Skrull Stark that first pushed for the SHRA, though. I think the Stark we've got can be persuaded not to back it. That's the first true critical point, according to your notes and my research." This was Sarah's attempt to thread the needle. She recognized that Ronin was ready to fight, and she wanted to defuse the situation, but the truth was she was quite a bit like her grandfather. Saving humanity was important. Saving individual people? Eh, not so much.

[herodofcows]

Sylvester looks as though Ronin's response surprises him not a jot. He plucks one of his own hairs, runs it through a device clipped to his side, and then gives it to Katie.

"Good thinking. Here you go, but fair warning: that hair will decompose in about ten minutes. Sorry, I'm sure you're well-intentioned, but I'm not in the habit of trusting people with my own DNA."

Telepathically, he resumes, and the world slows down to match the speed of conversation. Through shared awareness, everyone can feel something profoundly Sarah-like about this new intellect, but with a bit of a twist: where Sarah's brain is a constantly-thrumming dynamo, this one seems to crackle in volatile and overwhelming bursts.

~Just to calm down Ronin here, that's supra-50% odds of TOTAL population conservation. In terms of the math and universal physics behind it, it'll be a little rough. We'd need to see if the Skrull is half as good as she seems to be, but we've got a couple spellslingers on board so we could probably make it happen. Again, rough, bit of a strain on the multiverse even beyond that of the Doomlocks, but it could work

Still, Sarah's got new information for me here. Just found out about the Skrull thing. Makes the leadup to the SHRA a lot easier to understand: I'm calculating supra-90% odds that Skrull intervention kicked off Superman and Doomsday's rampage. If you guys forestalled that, then we're already in new territory. New territory is good. Who else was a Skrull, to your knowledge? How far did their infiltration g- okay I see . . .~

There's a brief outflow of numbers crunched as Shared Awareness allows transmission of the known Skrull abductees. When he returns to Shared Awareness, he somehow contrives to be both somber and elated.

~Wow, we are feeling the mode right here, kiddos. Good news first: you've almost certainly changed the course of the Superhuman Civil War, kicked the knees out from under the Pantheon Sieges, and made the War of Light and Fire a statistical impossibility. No idea how that spreads further down the line, but give me some time and I'll figure it out. Bad news . . . Darkseid. Remember how I said he was a red herring? Forget it. He just got upgraded to clear and present danger. Let me hand you some supra-90% probabilities . . .

From the point of your departure in the timeline (your present) look out for a spike in unexplained suicides, homicides, hate crimes, etc. all shooting up across the globe. Darkseid's doing. He'll be getting close to Earth, somehow, but he won't be detected by conventional means.

During the trial, J'onn J'onzz will be called up to the stand and assassinated. It'll be pinned on the aliens, and there'll be a massive fall in the number of aliens around Earth. Nearly even odds whether they flee, are destroyed, or destroy themselves; slight edge for "destroyed".

There's an important 50-50 split here, so pay attention: At this point, most of the Heroic community will move against Darkseid en-masse in one way or another. The split is how that response looks: an all-out attack on Apokalips inflicts heavy casualties on both sides, eliminates the Superhuman Civil War from meaningful consideration, and triggers . . . huh. Call it the Reassembly.

The covert option means fewer casualties, keeps the Superhuman Civil War in play but with lower odds of lethality, eliminates the odds of the Messiah War, and Earth is feeling the mode in terms of galactic relations. Supra-50% Green Lantern Corps involvement.

Either way, Darkseid doesn't die. He comes back, or he never left, or . . . I'm not sure. Either way, you guys get something like the Pantheon Sieges. No War of Light and Fire, but . . . heavy casualties. HEAVY casualties. And it triggers something else out of Asgard and beyond, somewhere. I don't know. The probabilities get screwy here.~

~A thousand pardons, but . . . what are we waiting for, then?~

Madalina's voice cuts into Shared Awareness like a hot Slavic knife through butter.

~Perhaps I am no artificer with squawking devices and fine cheekbones, but you say the changes you need have already been made, yes? You speak in terms of many events yet to come, but those events have been changed by my granddaughter and yours and their fellows. There is no point to further action here, when there is work to be done in the future! Let us destroy this Doomlock and those who would continue to wrongly make slaves of men because of their race (which, I have just learned, was invented by mankind and NOT inherent to the Creator's plan for the universe and is therefore a machination of the Adversary)!~

Sylvester blinks at this sudden outburst.

~Ah . . . I'm sorry, which of you said that?~

[Quellian-dyrae]

That...actually answered Katie's initial question well enough. Greater than 50% but presumably less than 90% (since Sarah's grandfather apparently would have said supra-90% if it was supra-90%) of everyone surviving was a risk she wasn't willing to take. It might have been a harder decision if it were really a question of "let all these people die" vs. "risk some of the people in our time ceasing to exist". But really, that wasn't what was in question. They were going to save the lives here one way or another. The only question was whether or not they would be living in the universe where that happened.

And Fred was right. They had no right to make a decision like that for all those people.

Guhhh...this time travel stuff was complicated! Katie was used to not being sure if she was making the best decision, but at least normally she felt she had a fair grasp on the fundamentals of cause and effect. Here...she wasn't sure she did.

~That's my great, uh, several times grandmother Madalina. She's sharing my head at the moment,~ Katie explained. ~And yeah, I'm pretty much convinced that she and Ronin have it right. No sense taking risks with our present. Let's destroy the Doomlock, end this battle, and then we can sit down and figure out how to deal with Darkseid and all the other bad stuff from our present going forward, before stopping Kang's last timeline move.~

[CandyLaser]

~I take it that means you're going to deactivate the Doomlock now, Grandfather? I think it's clear that we don't need to go through with Kang's plan. We're far enough back that large-scale historical disruptions introduce too much chaos. I wouldn't mind stopping the Civil War here, though, once the Doomlock is off. It'll be a good experiment.~

[Thokk_Smash]

Zach listens to the nerds talk about probabilities and the future and whatnot. It seems fascinating, at least the parts that pertain to the immediate future. The Martian Manhunter possibly being assassinated is interesting; that's something they oughta try to prevent. Still, there's not much he can add to the conversation; Katie and Saturn both have the right of it, so there's not much to say for that.

However, that doesn't mean he can't talk...think...whatever. ~"Maddy, if this pisses you off, just wait 'till we get back to our present. Check around in Katie's memories for the 'KKK'; oh, and see what she's got on Adolf Hitler, we'll get a chance to f*ck him up in our next jump."~

[herodofcows]

All credit to Sylvester. He rolls with the "psychic great x100 grandma spirit" thing graciously and without further pause.

~Fair enough, madam. One moment . . .~

He reaches for a cylindrical device on his belt and looks at it longingly for a moment.

"Shame . . . it's a damn fine piece of engineering," he comments aloud as he presses a button on its side and tosses it a few feet away. In a few seconds, the device explodes with a weak pfumf. A small cloud of smoke puffs away, and no debris remains. The thing has vanished without a trace.

"Gah!"

The Talisman abruptly ceases channeling and grabs her head, grumbling what sounds like a few choice curse words in the Skrull language.

"Why did you sever the krutaking connection?" she snaps, rubbing her temples, "Is it done? Have you altered the timeline and saved us from the Thing-That-Corrupts?"

~I like this Sylvester~ Madalina's voice rings out across Shared Awareness, ~He is a fine and proactive figure of a man. Sarah is clearly of a fine family. I approve of this. Are there, perhaps, any unmarried Saturn men? I have a great-granddaughter who is well-versed in the sorts of artifice that the Saturn family practices, and unmarried to boot! And this "Hitler", Zachary, allow me to . . .~

There's a moment where Shared Awareness seems to cut out. When it returns, Madalina's voice is like an icicle shoved through someone's brain.

~We are going to go see this . . . this servant of the Devil, this butcher, this blood-crazed beast, this walking excrement, this FILTH, this BARBARIAN, this MONSTER WHO SLAUGHTERS MY PEOPLE AND THE PEOPLE OF MY FAITH AND DEFIES THE COMMANDS OF CHRIST AND Jesus forgive my un-Christianlike sins of the mind but WE SHALL @#$^%*#&@ HIM!~

@#$^%*#&@ does not come through clearly in Shared Awareness. It is less of a word of existing concept as it is a hyper-subjective expression of great pain and suffering of various stripes inflicted separately and in combination. It is best approximated by imagining the sensation of having your intestines being pulled out of your stomach while realizing that you are naked in front of an audience who is pelting you with ice and hot coals while your significant other is passionately kissing your worst enemy and a doctor is explaining to you that the lump on your chest is malignant and you just realized that you've crushed the innocence and dreams of a small child.

[SuperCracker]

Ronin

He was glad to see that Katie and Saturn (Sarah) went his way. He was more glad when Sylvester just… switched the Doomlock off. Fred wasn’t interested in a fight if there didn’t need to be… and it appeared there didn’t need to be. Though the world was still slowed down to a crawl with Shared Awareness, he was already starting to draw Starsoul.

~Great! Everyone’s come to their senses. So, Nobel Laureate, tell us what we need to do to end this war right now?~

Ronin added, ~Non-lethal force only. Most of those soldiers down there aren’t wicked men… on either side. We need to move quickly so that they don’t shoot each other up, either.

When we’re finished, we can sit down and talk more about what we’re going to do in the present.~

[CandyLaser]

It would surprise no one to see that Sarah wasn't entirely trusting. Sarah took a look at Arlington's communicator, in order to verify that the Doomlock had, in fact, been deactivated.

Assuming it had, Sarah broke into a wide, genuine smile. It wasn't a normal expression for her. Oh, she smiled regularly. Sarah smiled when she solved a difficulty problem, or when she knew something someone else didn't, or when she had the upper hand in a conflict. For her, a smile was usually an expression of a job well done. Not this time, though. This time, it was an expression of genuine, unalloyed pleasure. "It's good to see you again, Grandfather. I've missed you - I've missed you more than I can say. I'm sorry I was so defensive; we've already dealt with one enemy wearing a friendly face among Kang's allies." She stopped short of taking Katie's suggestion and hugging him. Initiating a hug was a bit more than Sarah was willing to do, especially in public.

[Thokk_Smash]

Zach nods with satisfaction as the Doomlock explodes into nothing. "Maybe you're cooler than I thought," he says, on the off-chance Sylvester might actually care about his opinion.

With that, he turns to the group at large. "So, now that the Doomlock's gone, and whatever we do here doesn't affect our own timeline, I'm gonna go kick off the end to this fight. Ping me on Shared Awareness if there's a change in plans. Antío!"

Greek farewell said and cocky salute saluted, he zips off to the battle that is almost joined. He jumps his guitar's amps up to the max in preparation for his arrival. Flying low, he lands just as he strums a loud chord on his guitar, getting the attention of everyone within earshot.

~"You say you want a revolution"~
~"Well, y'know? We all wanna change the world"~
~"But when you talk about destruction"~
~"Well, y'know? That's damn worse than some insults hurled"~

He strums louder as he weaves his song, trying to get the meaning through the thick-skulled commanders and scared soldiers.

"You say you'll change the Constitution,"~
~"Well, y'know? I'm just gonna change your heads"~
~"You're thinkin' that it's the Union"~
~"Well, y'know? You oughta free your minds instead!"~

Leaving the song behind, he speaks to the soldiers, "This battle is unnecessary! There are brothers fighting on both sides of this war! And all so the leaders of one side may continue to profit as they have, without change, without so much as a compromise! You are, all of you, Americans! You have your free will--use it, make your own choice! For yourself!"

In his mind, he opens a private connection with Madalina. ~"So, you seem like a pretty nice woman, for someone who created the very first vampire and spawned an eternal walking nightmare, dozens of awesome books, and some very, very bad ones. Sorry if I sound rude, but that wasn't what any of us were expecting going into this. So, seeing as you'll be coming with us to the future, feel free to ask anything that's on your mind. An ounce of preparation or something like that, right?"

Spoiler

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Routine a Musician check for 30, and roll Persuasion at (1d20+20)[39]

[herodofcows]

Sylvester's face goes blank for a moment as a breath seems to force its way out of him. It's as though he'd been unexpectedly yet somehow pleasingly punched lightly in the stomach. He looks at Sarah, and the grin just sort of thaws onto his face like a river flowing its way through the harsh ice wall a glacier.

"Heh. Don't apologize, kiddo," he says softly, every syllable indicating that the apology and the smile are being cherished beyond measure, "Paranoid is good when you're dealing with Kang. He's got the whole multiverse to . . . Ah, I mean . . ."

He stumbles for words for just a millisecond . . .

Spoiler: Heard by Everyone But Sarah

Show

~In the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus the Nazarene, what has your tongue, sir? Why do you speak of that time-flouncing mummer Kang? Your granddaughter has just spoken to you! Tell her what she deserves to hear! Ach, you men of business are all the same. I mind me when my Beniamin was courting his wife and I would swear I had raised a ham for a son, the way he looked at his toes and turned scarlet. Zo me cușta, and him a butcher, and once a reeve at that!~

. . . but swiftly rallies. Like Sarah, he doesn't go in for the hug. But it's visible to all that the thinking, the feelings . . . indeed, everything behind the average hug but the hug itself is right there.

"You've really grown," he says wonderingly, shaking his head slightly, "When I left, you'd . . . and reading Kang's dossier on you! You become, ah, I mean, you are (of course you are), you're a hell of a scientist. And a hero, to boot! I mean, hell, I go back to save the Heroic Age and my granddaughter becomes one of them! It's . . . I'm proud of you. You know I'm proud of you, right? I've told you that before in your timeline, I hope. I know it's a lot, what I left you to do, but seeing how you've comported yourself, looking at some of the precautions you've taken, the way you've expanded on my work . . . it's pretty crash, kiddo. Pretty shocking crash. And if this comes to nothing else, I'm glad I get to work with you while it lasts."

He fumbles up a holoscreen and begins inputting a series of calculations which Sarah will recognize as concerning the military and economic viability of the Confederate and Union sides. His smile has now transformed somewhat: still proud, still plastered across a face belonging on the body of one of the more coldblooded Roman emperors, but now with the slight goofy edge suggesting a parent showing their child how to put together a model airplane.

"Heh, so let's put some heads together. We've got 1862 onward to work with here, and the whole pressure cooker that's about to go down after the Maryland campaign. Lee, Longstreet, and Jackson are right down in the valley, same as McClellan and Hooker. If we want Antietam to turn into a Confederate rout, we'll want to take out Lee and McClellan, and probably Longstreet to boot for smoother sailing. Politically, Davis is about to appoint the "permanent" cabinet, which should mostly self-destruct if he defaults to Jackson . . . but he might appoint Bragg if Jackson falls here too, which would create a ripple effect that'd reroute Farragut's push from New Orleans to Richmond proper-"

"Why does any of this MATTER, though?" the Talisman growls, striding over to the Saturns and glaring, "You severed the connection! I felt it! Nothing you do here will affect our predicament in the present in the slightest! What is the POINT??"

"We are scientists, madam," Sylvester replies, drawing himself even further up with a look of imperious affront, "And as scientists, we-"

And then Thunderstruck does what he does.

". . . well, shock."

The song and speech go over just as they should. For a brief shining moment, Thunderstruck stands as the man that will kick down the doors of the powerful and ride the tide of wealth and privilege from those that hold it to those that need it. Across the battlefield, the tramp of boots slows, staggers, and stops in the face of this electrifying future music. The battle lines are drawn, blue and gray facing each other across Miller's cornfield with rifles in hand and fear and awe in their hearts.

Thunderstruck speaks. And, after a moment, the armies reply. They speak with multitudes of voices, each rising and falling and striking others down in vehemence and emotion, the monolithic specter of discipline that once animated them towards this terrible meat grinder now a broken spell.

". . . dirty rebels deserve . . ."

". . . Davis is a son of a b**** . . ."

". . . not going to die for a n*****-lover like Lincoln . . ."

". . . don't rightly give a damn about . . ."

". . . into line, get back into LINE . . ."

". . . our pride, but for them rich . . ."

". . . coward like McClellan . . ."

". . . not worth it, just not . . ."

And so it goes, a spiral of doubts and disgust and fear and hatreds unchanneled and unchecked that swirl through the ranks of both sides and leave them puzzled and stranded in the dirt of cornfields and treelines as they wrestle with the feeling that maybe, for all the appeals to manhood and courage and the mandate of moral righteousness and defense of Liberty and Homeland and the Rights of the Commons and Freedom, dulce et decorum non est pro politicus mori.

[Quellian-dyrae]

Katie...kinda gulped at Madalina's response. ~Um...I think maybe let's do with the, you know, less riling my great grandmother up about the various bad guys who have existed since her time, maybe, yeah?~ she sent to Zach in a mental tone that communicated nothing so much as a "deer-in-headlights" look.

She tried to hide her smile at Sarah and her grandfather's interaction, not wanting to make either of them feel awkward or anything. She failed, entirely, but it was the thought that counted.

She did not try to hide her smile when Zach went and basically shut down the battle. The man had a gift. But stopping one battle wouldn't end the war itself. Was there anything they could do that-

~Hey guys, anyone care to form a hypothesis of what would happen if we, you know, just kinda freed all the slaves? Like, the Confederacy wakes up tomorrow morning and they're just all gone?~

Spoiler

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Expertise (History): (1d20+16)[27]. Not adding Eidetic Memory since this is historical theory rather than factual recall.

She looked to the Talisman then. "We're helping people, Ta'li. We're making the world we find ourselves in maybe a little better than it was before. That's...all the point there needs to be."

[SuperCracker]

Ronin

He found himself really liking Katie’s great grandmother.

But before they could literally kill Hitler; there was this battle to deal with. Thunderstruck had sewn audible discord into their ranks; but good leaders could still possibly rally them enough to incur bloodshed. So the answer, to Ronin, was simple... do something about the leaders. Sylvester Saturn agreed. And Katie, well… Katie had the best suggestion. Free all the slaves, or as best as they can here. That was the right thing to do.

The Talisman’s complaining received a low-effort glare from Ronin… but he can rise to the level of a philosophical argument from time to time. “The Way demands it. A bushi must be moral and must act in accordance with his virtues at all times. If I can help someone; it doesn’t matter if it will benefit me; or in this case, my own world. It doesn’t matter if anyone will ever know what I did.

It’s simply the right thing to do. Like Katie said… that’s enough.

Doctor Saturn, senior; just let me know who I’m hitting first. I’m on the way.”

"So long, guys and girls! We're gonna go bag us some historical figures!"

Ronin smiled the Cheshire Grin and faded from view. He was immediately rushing towards the sky above the Confederates, on the lookout for generals, generals’ tents, and anything else that might point out his targets.

[Thokk_Smash]

Zach gives Katie a little mental nod. ~"Just the one; c'mon, everyone wants to kill Hitler, right?"~ he asks her with joviality.

However, to Madalina, he thinks, ~"Look, when we get back to the future/present, there's gonna be a lot of sh*t going down, above and beyond the norm. Like how Sylvie said hate crimes would increase, not start, right? Just...it'd be better to prepare yourself a bit for what you'll find out in the future. There's a sh*tton of prejudice and racism in our present, probably even worse than in your time."~

To his gathered audience, he continues his speech. Projecting his voice to reach the far corners of the battlefield, he begins to stride amongst the arguing soldiers. "These truths are held to be self-evident, that all men have certain unalienable rights," he recites as if from a textbook. "Those being Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. And governments are supposed to protect those rights, but who gives the government the power? You! Who has family at home, waiting for someone who might not come back? You! And who was it that sent you all off to be killed for them?"

He lets the question linger in the air as he brings some background music to the forefront. He looks those closest to him in the eyes, nodding to let them know their feelings are not unwarranted. "How many have died in this war since it began? How many more must die before those at the top consider ending it? Do you want to risk being a statistic future generations read about when they look back on their country's glorious history?"

"None of you deserve to die! Not for someone else's beliefs, not unless you believe something so strongly you're willing to die for it. And if you are, then that's impressive...but you only have one life. If your governments are truly willing to sacrifice that life to settle their disputes, then they're not deserving of your loyalty. If they consider you expendable...then maybe it's time for a change! It's time to let Lincoln and Davis know that you're not gonna take it anymore!"

Spoiler

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Persuasion: (1d20+20)[39]

[CandyLaser]

"Freeing slaves sounds like a good way to spend the day. We'd need a place to put them, though - dropping them all up North will not help racial tensions. Might be better to get Lincoln to issue the Emancipation Proclamation, then leave a detailed plan for Reconstruction... Let me think about it." Sarah bent her intellect to looking to the future. How could the Misfits make this a better world?

Spoiler: Rolls

Show

Perception roll for precognition: (1d20+10)[26]

[herodofcows]

The Talisman's glare melts to contemplation, rumination . . . and then, after a moment, amused exasperation.

". . . this is the sort of thing you humans do, isn't it? Acting beyond the governance of your leaders, beyond the will of the people, acting as enlightened dictators against the ills you feel you face by virtue of the tyranny of your powers?"

She throws her hands in the air, waving them about as one who just doesn't appear to care.

"Very well then! Who am I to argue? Let us try this . . . this human way!!!"

*******************

The conflict between the Union and the Confederacy goes by many names throughout the multiverse: The American Civil War, the War of Northern Aggression, the Sundering of the States, the War of Yog-Soggoth Who Bestrides The Psychosphere, An Amusing Garnish for Galactus, Devourer of Worlds . . .

Many names indeed. But here, on the newly formed Earth-41023, it will henceforth be a mild curio in the history of the United States: a minor blip on the historic radar to be subjected to a few score increasingly abstracted graduate theses.

Within the course of a few weeks, the Misfits and Co. had masterminded a comprehensive takedown of the Confederacy's ability to make war. Rather than grinding on in a bloody and soul-scarring thresher of nationally tragic proportions, the war sheepishly stutter-stepped to silence, awkwardly cleared its throat, and then sidled into the bathroom to read the backs of the shampoo bottles.

It began with their leadership. General after general, officer after officer . . . they'd disappear, dozens per day, leaving their companies stranded and leaderless. Fiery flashes in the sky would herald their disappearance, and reports would . . .

Well, that was the next sticking point. The reports would never come, because there would be no soldiers to deliver them. Rumors abounded of mass desertions, of entire camps of men being dispersed by a man with lightning in his eyes and a tongue of gold. Soldiers were returning home and setting down their weapons . . . until men with fancy uniforms and imperious mentalities tried to send them back out again.

Of course, there were some who wouldn't be swayed. There were more than a few officers who were singularly immune to the blandishments of the lightning man: officers with pale skin and terrifying smiles and awful strength who moved swiftly and mercilessly through the night, seeking violence and bloodshed (bloodshed, blood-shed, blood shed) against those who would oppose the "peculiar institution" of the South. These gentlemen would not be moved by words of fellowship or independence from the tyranny of the oligarchy. THESE gentlemen . . . would meet their Maker.

~MY spellcraft? You would use MY spellcraft, MY sacrifice into sin for MY people, to uphold the lies of Lucifer? You who would tread upon the bodies of your weaker brethren for the sake of your own cruel appetites? You ditch-digging lackwitted roiderbanking abydocomistic quisby d***pated fornicators of livestock and vagabonds! Katya! Lend me your hands and mouth that I might show them some REAL blood magic! QUAIL AND COWER, DEVILSPAWN! DANCE FOR MADALINA! DANCE!!!~

Meanwhile, the Union army was behaving oddly too. For one thing, they seemed to be everywhere lately. Entire armies would travel at a rate thought impossible for even the most forceful general, almost as though they were being transported by magic (or technology so advanced as to make the distinction unimportant).

And the slaves . . . where in the holy name of f*** were the slaves going? Plantation after plantation, white-bearded old-moneyed tidewater **** after white-bearded old-moneyed tidewater **** would wake up and discover that their cotton unpicked, their breakfast unprepared, their overseers without non-white people to brutalize . . . it was chaos!

Without slave labor, willing soldiers, or generals with any kind of experience to fight for it and without slaves to provide economic impetus, the South crumbled fast. It was a matter of relative moments before the entire Confederacy had folded against the oncoming Union . . . and then the trouble started.

Or, rather, it was projected to start. Sarah and Sylvester's number crunching made that quite clear. The elder Saturn is fidgety and sleep deprived as he sketches out the options at your now-regular table in Conrad Leonhard's coffee house in St. Louis (which had become your unofficial base of operations thanks to its location, its space as an ideologically polarized city, nearby Union arsenal, and the discovery that Leonhard's coffee cake is/was possibly the greatest coffee cake to exist in this or any era. He does something with cinnamon and something else and woof. Divinity.).

"As of right now, the slave population is far more African than African-American. Sarah's been putting together domestic profiles and nearly seventy percent are within one generation of their abduction from Western Africa. Over ninety percent are less than three generations away. If we were to offer them passage back to Western Africa, many would take it.

"However, my numbers project a flashpoint possibility for major streamlining of racial integration and hamstringing of the racializing attitudes within the United States and further within the world at large, but only if a sizable former slave population remains in the country. We'd have to move fast and adjust some other things in terms of bolstering Southern Reconstruction, do a little population drift adjustment to make sure the right people meet and reproduce, switch up some aspects of the current Asian economy, but it's all doable . . . as long as we don't send them back to Africa. If we do send them back, we're looking at a potential overall setback for race relations and, indeed, a reinforcement of the racializing concept bolstered by ethnic homogeneity.

"There's also . . . well, there's a third option, but . . ."

"I cast a series of spells, similar to the ones I was to cast upon Kal-El and Curt Connors," interjects the Talisman around another mouthful of coffee cake. She has taken the form of a generic white society woman, the better to deflect the already-curious gazes of the Leonhard family as they offer you their delicious hospitality, "The minds of the light-skinned humans and the dark-skinned humans will all be swayed as though they had been kept together in freedom, so that the second option might seem to take place. Once this is done, we may return the dark-skinned humans to their ancestral places of birth without fear that they and the light-skinned humans will be drawn into further conflict."

"So, what are your thoughts?" Sylvester asks apprehensively, gesturing at Tillie (Conrad's daughter and the de-facto server) for a refill.

[SuperCracker]

Ronin

Again, this was one of the best times of Ronin’s life. So much good; so many lives saved.

He was there in Conrad’s Coffee House, having some eggs and bacon while everyone discussed what to do about the future of this world. It was a bit of a dilemma. Take the freed slaves to what they may consider home; leave them here for what will be a hard life going forward; or brainwash everyone… Talisman was always a fan of that plan; though in the prior few days, Fred had come to tolerate her better. There wasn’t one death threat since they arrived in this timeline.

“The ends don’t justify the means. The means themselves must be just. We can’t warp their minds en masse. Professor Xavier refuses to do it in the modern era, and for good reason. That’s not true acceptance.

I would hope that the people we freed stay… and have an opportunity to make their lives here; prove their oppressors wrong. But I understand it will be hard.”

“The choice is really for them to make. We’re talking about long-term outcomes, but these individuals have the right to choose what they do with their own lives. Otherwise, their freedom is meaningless.”