Blood Bowl itP IV: Anything But A '1'

[Silfir]

We've got the first result for the final round of the regular Standard League season, in which every single game has implications for the playoffs!

... But it took some doing.

The Smashers of Sotek received the kick by Caissa's Chosen to start it off, and immediately threw their skinks forward, to attempt a score on the second turn via skink handoff and pass, to the surprise of the elven coach. The pass failed, and the elves recovered the ball and formed a cage near the halfway line - but a Wizard made short work of that, and after a back-and-forth struggle the lizards indeed managed to score on turn 8 to enter halftime with a 1-0 lead.

It took the elves three turns to draw in typcial elf fashion, and despite most of their team going down from a pitch invasion they got something out of a failed pickup by the lizards in the form of some injured skinks. Seeing themselves down in numbers, the Smashers elected to go for a pretty safe 2-1 on turn 14, giving me two turns to score - not out of the question for elves at all, but not an automatic process.

There is where chaos itself struck from outside dimensions and crashed Blood Bowl on my laptop. (I now have zero machines I feel completely safe playing Blood Bowl matches on. Thanks, Cyanide.)

Maethirion proved himself to be a sportsman of the highest order and agreed to Thufir's proposal: that of recreating the match circumstances in place as closely as possible and playing out the final two turns after all. Which we did; only missing out on two casualties from my side on the skinks and one on the part of Maethirion's Kroxigor. (No permanent injuries there to muddle the issue, thankfully.)

Whether I'd managed to successfully roll all the 1s out of the system beforehand in trying to recreate the three completions I had or not - I ended up having exactly the luck I needed; the ball flew right into the hands of my remaining catcher (with two of them dutifully sitting the play out, since one had been Badly Hurt and the other KO'd before), and I was able to move him straight into the opposing half, surrounded by protective players. Despite this, Maethirion managed to make me roll five times before I could make it into the endzone; a 2d block with Wrestle, a 1d block with Block, a 2d blitz with the Wrestle ballcarrier, a 3+ dodge and a 2+ dodge, all with only a team reroll.

But I did make it - and Maethirion's unlikely 1ttd attempt didn't return a success, which leaves the final result at 2-2.



This unfortunately makes it extremely unlikely Maethirion will make the playoffs, as he's level with both Wraith and Unpronouncable (post-Devmaar-bye) in points, but there are four coaches left who could pull ahead of his 15 points still, including, of course, Wraith himself. But though he might not make the playoffs of our league, he's already made the playoffs in my heart; he would've been well in his rights to claim victory on my technical failure, but as that would've knocked Shishnarfne straight out of contention and made it much harder for everyone else, he went out of his way to make sure the failure of the Cyanide devs to write a not horrible Blood Bowl client did not result in unfairness being dealt. So, unfortunately, I'm now rooting for all you others to lose and for him to make it on Neustadtl. It's nothing personal, I assure you!

[LCP]

Meanwhile in the Rookie League... Isla Sauria 5 - 0 Those Who Eat Brunch.

2 fumbled pickups from the Chaos Dwarfs on the first turn of a receiving drive
2 Blitzes and 1 Perfect Defence for me
2 lucky scatters that allowed me to catch my own kick on both Blitzes
No failed Bonehead rolls for the entire first half
Not a single Saurus taken down by a Both Down against TWEB's preponderance of Block.

I definitely don't feel like I deserved that scoreline. Thanks for the game, Dsop, and sorry for the Nuffling.

[Dsop]

Meanwhile in the Rookie League... Isla Sauria 5 - 0 Those Who Eat Brunch.

2 fumbled pickups from the Chaos Dwarfs on the first turn of a receiving drive
2 Blitzes and 1 Perfect Defence for me
2 lucky scatters that allowed me to catch my own kick on both Blitzes
No failed Bonehead rolls for the entire first half
Not a single Saurus taken down by a Both Down against TWEB's preponderance of Block.

I definitely don't feel like I deserved that scoreline. Thanks for the game, Dsop, and sorry for the Nuffling.

My levels of salt have not subsided, but its not caused by your plays. Its more so that I haven't been able to generate any spp this season due to games not played or lack of favorable rolls. This may be this teams first and last season on the pitch, depending on how next season is looking. Conversely everything is great in BB2, carry on normal dwarfs.

Edit: Also, I got 6 SPP from last game... BLOODY ****IN 6 !@$EG!@# /*saltinducedrageinthecorner

[LCP]

I didn't want to rub salt in the salt during the game by offering advice, but I do think you focused a little too much on SPP gain during play - particularly after the rocky start. The best way to gain SPP is to try to score; if you're making risky moves that don't block my scoring chances or protect your own then you are really limiting yourself to fewer potential SPP gains in a half than if you try to move your team as a whole towards a touchdown - or just a stronger position for the coming turns. (Although to be clear, even if you'd played perfectly I still think the dice would have lost you that game).



On a different note, I've started a steam group for multiplayer Mordheim on this forum. I know a few people here have it - would anyone be interested? Shoot me a message on Steam if so and I'll add you.

[Dsop]

I didn't want to rub salt in the salt during the game by offering advice, but I do think you focused a little too much on SPP gain during play - particularly after the rocky start. The best way to gain SPP is to try to score; if you're making risky moves that don't block my scoring chances or protect your own then you are really limiting yourself to fewer potential SPP gains in a half than if you try to move your team as a whole towards a touchdown - or just a stronger position for the coming turns. (Although to be clear, even if you'd played perfectly I still think the dice would have lost you that game).

The only way to score against your team would be to have people with 1.Skills to overcome the massive strength advantage (Dauntless/Frenzy like troll slayers) 2. The ability to prevent your advances by not being constantly batted around the pitch like a baseball (2 Blitzs allowing you to mark and blitz at my weak points, and on your own kickoff's. There IS no positioning to stop your scores when everyone is down or marked before I can even adjust to the kickoff).

Sure, the dice weren't in my favor, but after a 3-0 to 2 Blitzes and a 2 failed sure hands on my own receptions, why wouldn't I try to generate some spp? Your 5 STR Saurus means you have 2 big guys, I lose my early block advantage to all but 2 of your saurus, and your skinks dont have to get close to my players with tackle, as they are contained by the overwhelming line stack. The only blocks I could make that game were either 2 die blitzs to a skink, or 2 red die to anything else which I'm not dedicating more than 3 players to a solo target. So yeah, I'm gonna take my chances on the red dice against the 3 guys without block. They're marked if I try to dodge anyway; why not?

Also, blitzing your skinks with a block Centaur and trying to remove your chances of scoring in the future is not what you'd consider blocking your score chances? Its either that, watch your 1 AGI saurus pick up the ball and blitz it down the field (which did happen), or line up my squad 1 row off the endzone and rotate every time you move the ball (which eventually leads to them getting knocked back off the pitch and results in either injuries or deaths).

Normally, I'd start yelling at my screen in these situations. But this time I was dead quiet. Even I could analyze the situation at hand, and see that there was absolutely NOTHING I could have done to prevent what occured.

[Dsop]

Also, a hearty GG to my man Aetherstorm. A glorious bash fest occured in BB2, where lizards and dwarfs brawled the great brawl, and neither team could bother with scoring more than 1 TD apiece! The match was a nail biter which was close down to the very end, where I used all 8 turns of the second half to slowly bash my way up the pitch, eventually creating an advantageus situation against the blockless, skull rolling Sauri! I'm sure it was as fun to watch as it was to play.

Again, GG Aetherstorm. My Nuffle bless your blocking dice!

[LCP]

Like I said, I completely agree - against those dice pretty much anything you did would have been moot. I just got the general impression that a lot of your actions were focused around maximising SPP/minimising casualties in the immediate vicinity of the activated player, rather than thinking about the state of the pitch as a whole.

The best example I can think of was on the first Blitz!, when you managed to pull out one of your Bull Centaurs and smack down the skink who'd stolen the ball. I was thinking that was the end of my easy route to a TD, since the skink had been making a break for it with all my Saurus marked - but then you left your dwarfs on the ground because they were safer lying down, letting my Saurus just stroll over and knock the Bull Centaur down. It was the best move for the health of the Blockers, but it wasn't the best move for the Bull Centaur and it definitely wasn't the best move for keeping me away from the ball - and that early in the game the dice hadn't yet added up to a foregone conclusion.

The rest of the game is a bit hazy now though so I'd have to look back at the replay to form a clearer argument.

Also, blitzing your skinks with a block Centaur and trying to remove your chances of scoring in the future is not what you'd consider blocking your score chances?

That's exactly what you needed to be doing and your Bull Centaurs did it well - but the primary aim shouldn't be taking my skinks off the pitch to prevent me scoring in future (that's a nice bonus), it should be knocking them down so you can steal the ball and stop them from scoring now. Your Centaurs did sterling work but a lot of the time they were very unsupported, with your hobgoblins running away to the other side of the pitch. If you move a couple of hobgoblins to pick up or even just mark the ball after the skink gets flattened then I will have a very hard time getting it back - I only get one Blitz per turn to clear them off and skinks have Ag3 and no skills to help them with difficult pick-ups.

watch your 1 AGI saurus pick up the ball and blitz it down the field (which did happen)

I do try to do that any time I have the opportunity to do so without a major risk - Saurus need any SPP they can get to keep pace with the skinks. 5+ rerolling isn't guaranteed but it is a >50% chance.

The greatest player I ever had was an Ag2/Sure Hands/Block/Break Tackle Saurus. Unfortunately he eventually killed himself on a GFI

[LCP]

And to follow up with the Standard League result... Ruinous Rampagers 2 - 0 Sun's Children!

Not a match I was expecting to win at all, but it turns out that Claw, MB and Tackle are really good answers to super-levelled Saurus and Skinks... at least if you can roll well enough.

The Rampagers put two lizards out of action on the first turn, and then clung on for dear life as they pushed their cage up the left-hand side of the field through an angry wall of super-Saurus, picking off more of them with Claw where they could. As the casualties started mounting the pressure lessened enough for me to stall out into an 8-turn grind, finishing the first half 1-0 up and with only 1 skink still ambulatory.

In the second half, a long scatter gave Froish a touchback onto his ST5 saurus, which looked for a moment like it might undo all my skink-squashing work - but in what might be a first for wizards hired by the Rampagers, my wizard actually did really well, stunning said Saurus, breaking open the cage and KO-ing the only remaining skink. One of my Ag4 beasts grabbed the ball and spent the rest of the half running away from the Children's Kroxigor to the Benny Hill music while the rest of my team surrounded and clobbered what was left of the lizards.

Thanks for the game, Froish - if this means the Rampagers somehow make it into the playoffs I'm sure you'll have your revenge!

[Wraith]

Apologies Froish, but if you desire revenge against the Rampagers then it'll have to wait until next season - the Hammersjurg Destroyers have come out of their clash with the Bloody-Handed Angels and narrowly scraped themselves into an unassailable 4th place in the League by a jealously guarded margin of just 1 point.

Worth over 350k gold pieces less than the veteran Dark Elves, the Norse team splurged their inducements on a little bit of everything - a wizard, a Babe, a reroll and a bribe in order to try an cover all eventualities, but as it happened very nearly none of it was needed. Failing to guess the coin toss, the Destroyers were gifted the opportunity to Receive and begin the game in offence.
It began in typical Destroyers' fashion - a few harmless shoves followed by the Yhetee Both Down/Skull-ing himself on the LoS. Fortunately the ball was deep in Norse territory and out of reach of the Dark Elves, who in turn seemed content to crowd the Line and make a few token blocks of their own thus allowing the Destroyers' Runner to scoop the ball up into safety. From there, both teams fought back and forth across the LoS as the Destroyers slowly tried to find a way through while the Angels tried to squeeze a body or two into contact with the ball carrier, though they seemed somewhat shy of getting caught between the Ulfwereners and the sideline, or napalm death descending from above. When Frenzy finally made it's mark and sent a Witch Elf into the crowd in turn ~4, quickly followed by a couple of KOs thereafter, the Norse weight of numbers and strength advantage started to payoff and a handoff to a waiting lineman allowed the Destroyers to break for the End Zone. Enough Elves were taking a nap or pinned by S4 Norsemen that, despite a couple of vicious attempts at the ball carrier, I was able to stall out until turn 8 before scoring and with only ST4 and 5 pieces on the LoS the Elves were unable to pull off a 1TTD as the half ended.

As the second half began, insofar as possible when facing a 2100TV Dark Elf team, things were looking pretty good for the Norse. The two KO'd Dark Elves had refused to get back up and a further injury forced the Angels down to their 11 backup players, whereas the Destroyers had lost only one of their 13 players and still had a Wizard and 5 rerolls in the chamber.
The brawl on the LoS was pretty vicious; even the Yhetee was overpowered twice in two turns until he was finally Stunned and refused to get up, and it seemed inevitable that the Angels would score when the Witch Elf and a Dodge/Guard Blitzer made it down the pitch into scoring range. It seemed especially likely when I rushed headlong into a very obvious Dump Off trap, putting the ball safely in the Witch's hands. I piled bodies around her as a token barricade and waited for the inevitable equaliser - I still had 6 turns after this one in which to score and reluctantly decided that I would be better off keeping my fireball back to aid my intended 2-1 victory.

And then Nuffle smiled.

Tasroth attempted to Blitz his way free of the Norsemen. It seemed a sensible attempt given that his Guard Blitzer guaranteed a favourable roll, and the odds of getting even a Push were better than a dodge into two tackle zones and then a long run around more tackle zones, but the God of the Game decreed that Tasroth would instead Both Down, dropping the ball loose and turning over.
The Destroyers capitalised immediately, shoving the Guard Blitzer aside and grabbing the ball with their Star Runner who was looking to climb even further up the Hall of Fame. Very soon the Norse team had a cage in the Elves' half of the pitch, but it was being menaced by another Guard Blitzer, a Guard Lineman and yet more assorted forms of pointy-eared death, and almost on a whim I decided to Lightning Bolt the Blitzer. The game was running towards it's conclusion and I was starting to think that I might not get an opportunity to use it properly, so I decided that even if I didn't Stun or Injure that Guard, I could at least force him into being the One-Dice Blitz on my ball carrier rather than providing support for someone else to get two dice.
Indirectly, that decision allowed me to seal the game for my team - Tasroth started his turn by standing up that same player - the only body on my ball carrier - and the misclicked the End Turn button when reaching for his next player without standing up any of his other pieces.

Without ceremony I had an Ulfwerner pummel that guy into the ground again and then walked the ball in to score over the next two turns, no one else being in a position to stop me. What else would you do in that situation? I didn't want Tasroth penalised for a mistake that I've made plenty of times but it's such a small thing to restart the game over. Fortunately Tasroth was the one to opine that his position in the playoffs was already safe, so the loss wouldn't mean as much to him as a win would to me (even if, as he said, he was sure he could have made the score 1-1 that turn had he played it out properly. I believe him - the skills on his Thrower are simply ridiculous, and he had at least 3 players in position to receive and then score).

Even despite the ending, Tasroth had a rough game - he failed significantly more GFI's than he succeeded, Both Downed when he would have settled for anything else and failed dodges at crucial times. A 2-0 victory to the Hammersjurg Destroyers was more than I'd hoped for going in to the match but now it feels a little unfair, given how it came about. I hope you at least had some fun, and maybe you'll still get your shot at revenge in the next round.

[LCP]

why you little...

*shakes big spiky fist*

[Wraith]

You think that's bad? I'm a shameless thief, too!

[LCP]

hoist with my own petard

The Rampagers are starting to feel like saturday morning cartoon villains now. I'll get you next time, Hammersjurg Destroyers!

[Thufir]

Just putting it up here for the record that I messaged Luzahn about our match on Monday the 23rd and he has yet to respond.

[Wraith]

Times They Are A-Mutating 1 - 0 The Scaretoon Network

All credit to Unpronounceable who, as usual, played a solid and intelligent game, but the experience itself was not the most entertaining one that I have ever experienced. It was one of those matches that pretty much came down to "whoever rolls a 1 first, loses", and in this case it was my turn.

Allowed to receive in the first half, I somehow stumbled my way up the pitch, failing Blocks and simple dodges as often as not, before an opportunity to score in Turn 8 turned out to be a cruel trick by Nuffle. I succeeded the initial Dodge and Pickup to get the ball, then the Quick Pass to a waiting player in a scoring position was good.... rolled a 1 to catch. The ball scattered onto ANOTHER Elf in scoring position.... the briefest glimpse of hope..... rolled a 2 to catch. Ball lost, turnover. The light at the end of the tunnel was my childhood puppy, burning in a pile of Minotaur peat.

The second half didn't go much better for Unpronounceable until Turn 7 when, in a fit of pique, he caused more injuries in that turn than he had all game and forced me to make fail a 2 dodge/2 GFI/1 dice Blitz on no rerolls with the only player left available to do so in order to stop him from scoring. That sounds like a safe play, but GETTING his Beastman into that position took 7 turns of swearing at the dice for both of us.

GG, sir; GG. With luck I *might* be able to make it to the playoffs and see you again, but I still don't know how BB2 scores it's Leagues, so who really knows?

[Maethirion]

GG, sir; GG. With luck I *might* be able to make it to the playoffs and see you again, but I still don't know how BB2 scores it's Leagues, so who really knows?

Based on the table the in game UI is currently giving me, the game is definitely giving three points for a win, one for a draw, and none for a loss. That said, I have no idea how it's sorting out draws - there's no information on that. Currently myself, Aetherstorm and Dsop are all sitting on 7 points, but I don't know how it's deciding which of us is second, third and fourth. Maybe later in the day I'll go back and work out the touchdown differences. Maybe it's that.
The playoffs are definitely still a possibility for you Wraith - you just need to win one more game, and have either myself, Aetherstorm or Dsop lose our next one, and it'll catapult you into the top 4. The whole competition is actually really close.

Two things to raise though, with the deadline coming up very soon (I accidentally wrote Monday 1st June, which doesn't exist, so I'm leaving it until Tuesday 1st).

Firstly, I've sent Manticoran a couple of steam messages over the last week and a half, and haven't had any responses. Are you out there somewhere?

Secondly, a reminder to Shishnarfne and Razgriez that you're the other unplayed game this week - any plans to get that in?

[Wraith]

Monday afternoon GMT, so time for a new day of the Rookie League.

Season 03 - Day 07
Naggarothian Nightmares (Maethirion) vs. Isla Sauria (LCP)
Goblinization Nation (DarthMario) vs. The Unsightly Jellyfishes (Lyrakien)
Unsidhe De Cuirte Dorche (Manticoran) vs. Playboy Plaguemates (Deadline)
Rules Rules Rules (TFT) vs. Have Some Popkhorne (Silfir)
Those Who Eat Brunch (Dsop) vs. The Orctodads (legoshrimp)
Super Furry Wild Animals (Wraith) vs. The Shameful Dead (MisterQuiv)
Team Named Spoon (Grytorm) vs. The Expendables LXXXXVII (Unpronouncaeble)

Games to be completed by: Monday 13th June

Lots of games auto-resolved, so if you have to play properly this week then don't rely too much on the rankings; there's plenty of chances that you'll get a couple of 2-0 victories of your own to even things out.

[Thufir]

OK, I take a forfeit win over Luzahn, and the main league is into playoffs:

Hammersjurg Destroyers (Wraith) vs. Caissa's Chosen (Silfir)
The Sun's Children (SaruSama) vs. The Bloody-Handed Angels (Tasroth)

[Deadline]

Apologies, the Memorial Day weekend kept me entirely away from my PC. Manticoran, when are you and your Unsightly Curtain Doilies up for a match?

[Razgriez]

Based on the table the in game UI is currently giving me, the game is definitely giving three points for a win, one for a draw, and none for a loss. That said, I have no idea how it's sorting out draws - there's no information on that. Currently myself, Aetherstorm and Dsop are all sitting on 7 points, but I don't know how it's deciding which of us is second, third and fourth. Maybe later in the day I'll go back and work out the touchdown differences. Maybe it's that.
The playoffs are definitely still a possibility for you Wraith - you just need to win one more game, and have either myself, Aetherstorm or Dsop lose our next one, and it'll catapult you into the top 4. The whole competition is actually really close.

Two things to raise though, with the deadline coming up very soon (I accidentally wrote Monday 1st June, which doesn't exist, so I'm leaving it until Tuesday 1st).

Firstly, I've sent Manticoran a couple of steam messages over the last week and a half, and haven't had any responses. Are you out there somewhere?

Secondly, a reminder to Shishnarfne and Razgriez that you're the other unplayed game this week - any plans to get that in?

Was busy, I'll try to get the game in. I know Shishnarfne tried to contact me.


Also, I think you mean Wednesday, not Tuesday.

[LCP]

Maethirion, when are you available? It would be best if we could get our game in this week/weekend - next week I'm going abroad for a friend's wedding.

[Shishnarfne]

A stubborn refusal of my graphics card to properly handle Blood Bowl Two (with graphics already at low) led to me discovering that Cyanide fixed a trick whereby people could repeatedly disconnect and reconnect until their opponent got too frustrated. So, after my fifth crash during the first half (and I had two while in the menu screens before play started!), well, Razgriez gets his first win for his High Elves.


Oh, turn one? I had a Blitzer suffer a -AG apo'd into dead.

As a proud Dark Elf team, I opted to let the Apothecary do his grim work.

I think that this is the end of the line for me in the BB2 league: right now it's just too frustrating for me to try to get through the match(es) with my graphics card dying.

[Maethirion]

Still haven't heard from Manticoran, so he's been assigned a forfeit, and day advanced.

Blood Bowl 2 League
Season 01 - Day 05
Ishgardian Azure Dragoons (Razgriez) vs. The Scaretoon Network (Wraith)
Cliched Stereotypes (Shishnarfe) vs. A Ratmas Carol (Manticoran)
Elf Smashers (Dsop) vs. Khornate Killers (Maethirion)
End-time are a Mutating (Unpronounceable) vs. The Tenocht Thunderscales (Aetherstorm)

Games to be completed: Monday 13th June (I got the date right this time!)

On a secondary note, I have had two odd levelups that I'm not sure what to do with.
My ST5 Warrior has levelled up, and I'm not sure whether to give him the standard block, or go down the tentacles route. Any thoughts?
I also rolled a ten (4+6) for an unskilled beastman, and I'm uncertain whether or not to take the +1MA. It could be really handy... but then so could block or wrestle.

[LCP]

Isla Sauria 2 - 1 Naggarothian Nightmares. Once again the lizards luck their way to victory, with a Blitz, a couple of key casualties and a lot of failed dodges for the elves in the first few turns of the game. Isla Sauria took the ball off the reeling elf team for a defensive TD, then formed a solid wall of Saurus and just ground their way up the pitch in the second half, making for 2 TDs by 2 Saurus (some glyphs were later found scrawled on the changing room wall, which scholars have roughly translated as "saurus carry ball much good, skinks go home"). Maethirion clung on tenaciously and amazingly managed to score a cheeky passing TD in the closing turns of the game, despite the fact that he was at something like a 2:1 numbers disadvantage and had just had half his remaining team flattened by a pitch invasion.

Thanks for the game, Maethirion; hope you have better luck for the rest of the league.

[Wraith]

On a secondary note, I have had two odd levelups that I'm not sure what to do with.
My ST5 Warrior has levelled up, and I'm not sure whether to give him the standard block, or go down the tentacles route. Any thoughts?
I also rolled a ten (4+6) for an unskilled beastman, and I'm uncertain whether or not to take the +1MA. It could be really handy... but then so could block or wrestle.

On a Chaos Warrior of any ST value, Block is indispensable. I speak from experience; ST5 on a player can make you very, very complacent about throwing Blocks about, and sooner or later you're going to Double Both Down exactly when you least want it. Or just as bad, meet a Norse Runner or Dwarf Trollslayer in a dark alley and their Block/Dauntless combo is going to ruin your day He's worth looking after, so why take the risk?

Besides, arguably Prehensile Tail is better than Tentacles. There's no test to avoid it, and it causes turnovers which are wonderful for controlling the game to your advantage; one 'stuck' player, less so.

As for the Beastman, I think it depends on where the rest of your team is at. Do you have enough other players with Block or Wrestle to hold the line? Or can you spare a piece to start developing into a dedicated ball carrier/long range Blitzer?
My Chaos team is several games 'older' than yours, and I preferred to have defensive skill on my Beastmen before they started to specialise, as lower-MA-with-Block was a more reliable carrier, and better all-rounder than one that was faster but more vulnerable. That suited my playstyle and team though, so by all means look at your own in comparison and see if it's time to start branching out or not.

[Silfir]

Tentacles on a ST 5 chaos warrior I think is a worthwhile thing to have, but you want to have Block first for general utiliy and because a Tentacles player who can be knocked down easily won't deliver on the tentacly goodness quite as well anyway. Block -> Tentacles -> Stand Firm would be an interesting path to take, though it does come at the expense of an early Guard. I would really take Block first, though, and probably Guard if I'm honest, and get Tentacles as a late development option. (Tentacles also kind of wants to be paired with Tackle in addition to Stand Firm - luckily, these are good skills without Tentacles as well.)

To offer some counterpoints on Prehensile Tail vs. Tentacles: First, unless the player in question is the ballcarrier, it's unlikely that the turnover resulting from the failed dodge will do a lot of stuff for you, since it'll likely be the last thing the coach will try on their move. Second, Tentacles (with high ST to back it up) is much more likely to actually have an effect than Prehensile Tail does. If, say, you have three players next to a Kroxigor, even failed dodges will allow some of them to escape his grasp eventually; but players of average strength stuck next to a supported and high strength Tentacles piece will simply be stuck there for the forseeable future. If you can get your high Strength possible-wielder-of-extra-appendages player next to an important player - the last blitzer who can stop the runner, the ballcarrier and so on - Tentacles will be far more effective at actually doing it, since it forces that player to pass two rolls to get away. Extra evil cackle points are earned when the player has to spend a reroll on passing the Tentacles roll and then falls on his nose during the dodge or later on a go-for-it.

Ultimately, I think of Prehensile Tail as not much of a deterrent. The guys who are good at dodging will still be pretty good at dodging; elves just go from dodging like elves to dodging like normal people, which isn't nearly as bad as one might think, especially with the Dodge skill involved. The guys who weren't good at dodging anyway suffer more of an impact by comparison, but those are also the guys who are better equipped to fight back. Tentacles is simply the skill of the two that's actually pretty good at tying mobile players down, provided it's wielded by ST5 at least. I'd consider Prehensile Tail more on players who are too weak to use Tentacles effectively, namely the beastmen, in case you've built a supporty one with Block, Guard and Stand Firm.

As for +MA - if you don't have Block or Wrestle beastmen yet, it's probably a good idea to skip it, but a 7 MA beastman I think is worth having in principle. Even without Wrestle or Block, he's quite useful for blitzing simply because he has Horns; add Wrestle and later Tackle and you have a single guy capable of covering the entire backfield against runaway elvish or Skaven ballcarriers, which gives the other 10 defenders more flexibility to do what they are good at. Block, Sure Hands and Extra Arms are also decent followups, to create a guy who can score quickly (or work together with another guy to score quickly) when that is warranted.

[Unpronounceable]

Apologies to those i have to play, aetgerstorm and grytom i think? But i've been a bit busy and not online recently. Should be around this weekend, if you're state side, or can do an evening in the week if you are europe based. Aus/NZ i'm good with playing early morning i. E your evening.

[Aetherstorm]

Apologies to those i have to play, aetgerstorm and grytom i think? But i've been a bit busy and not online recently. Should be around this weekend, if you're state side, or can do an evening in the week if you are europe based. Aus/NZ i'm good with playing early morning i. E your evening.

Yeah, NZ time for me (GMT +12). I have a bit of an unusual work schedule for the next two weeks, in that I mostly seem to have evening shifts. The earliest that I could guarantee the free time would be on Sunday the 12th with more or less the whole day beyond the early afternoon available. The Monday also seems pretty free, just to hurl some options out there on my end.

[Unpronounceable]

Yeah, NZ time for me (GMT +12). I have a bit of an unusual work schedule for the next two weeks, in that I mostly seem to have evening shifts. The earliest that I could guarantee the free time would be on Sunday the 12th with more or less the whole day beyond the early afternoon available. The Monday also seems pretty free, just to hurl some options out there on my end.

Sunday sounds good, so are you saying everything but your sunday afternoon?

So that'd sunday morning (MY sat evening)
Sunday evening (my Sunday morning)
and
Monday (my sunday)

Are you any good for YOUR sunday or monday morning, as I might be out my sunday morning.

[Wraith]

Destroyers versus Chosen has been scheduled for Friday evening, after Silfer has finished watching the Euro match, if anyone would care to spectate. I'm strongly inclined to try and stream the game with some commentary, just for fun - it's something that I've wanted to do for a while and the Playoffs seems like a grand enough occasion

I've also been in touch with my BB2 opponent. We don't know when Razgreiz will have an open schedule, but I'm doing what I can to remain available over the weekend.

[Aetherstorm]

Sunday sounds good, so are you saying everything but your sunday afternoon?

So that'd sunday morning (MY sat evening)
Sunday evening (my Sunday morning)
and
Monday (my sunday)

Are you any good for YOUR sunday or monday morning, as I might be out my sunday morning.

Sorry, the wording might have been a bit unclear there. What I meant was that I am free after the early afternoon on Sunday and Monday, available for what would be my 3pm onward. If our time zones line up more so that my mornings/your evenings work better (which seems to be what you are suggesting partly) then I'd also be available on the Friday and Saturday (10th and 11th), my morning.