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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Rakireborn's Gestallt (former 'Hybrid') Class Rules Supplement

    Hi GiantITP,

    Been a while since i last posted some new homebrew here. Been busy with life, but also on a new project of mine: Hybrid Class Rules. It is still quite rough, but i wanted to get some insight from some fellow homebrewers.

    These supplement rules are to make a hybrid class: you take two classes, and make progress at them equally, combining both, but mastering none. Instead of multiclassing with the PHB rules, this is supposed to give you a real feeling of being both. This is quite hard to balance, but i have tried. Here comes the first draft:


    I chose to make these as more balanced 'Gestallt' rules, as they were leaning towards those rules more. Hybrid class rules will come soon in a different post!

    Gestallt Class Rules

    Some adventurers specialize in one class, others take training in another to enhance their primary class. But there are also those that combine two classes, and train themselves in them equally. They combine the ways of both classes, but are masters in none. These are the Gestallt.

    HIT POINTS
    Hit dice: You add both hit dice together, and halve it (rounded down to the nearest even sided die) to get your Gestallt class Hit Dice (e.g. a barbarian and sorcerer Gestallt gets (12+6)/2=9, which gets you a d8 Hit Die).
    Starting Hit points: The maximum of your Hit Die + your constitution modifier. (e.g. a barbarian and a sorcerer Gestallt gives a d8 Hit Die, so it gets 8 + its constitution modifier hp)
    Hit points after 1st level: Your Hit Die (or average rounded up) + your Constitution modifier per Gestallt level after 1st.

    PROFICIENCIES
    Armor: The armor proficiencies that concur in both classes.
    Weapons: The combined weapon proficiencies from both classes.
    Tools: All tools given by both classes.

    Saving throws: Combine the two classes’ saving throws, and choose one common and one uncommon saving throw (common: dex, con, wis. Uncommon: str, int, cha).
    Skills: Combine the skills you may choose from. You get proficiency in three of those skills. If a class gives more skill proficiencies, you may choose them from that class’ options.

    FEATURES

    Gestallt Level Features Scaling features as class level
    1 Lvl1 features from both classes 1
    2 Lvl2 features from both classes 2
    3 Lvl3 feature from one class (player's choice) 3
    4 Ability Score Increase 3
    5 Lvl3 feature from the other class 4
    6 Lvl5 feature from one class (player's choice) 4
    7 - 5
    8 Ability Score Increase 5
    9 lvl5 feature from the other class 6
    10 Lvl6 features from both classes 6
    11 - 7
    12 Ability Score Increase 7
    13 Lvl7 features from both classes 8
    14 Lvl9 feature from one class (player's choice) 8
    15 - 9
    16 Ability Score Increase 9
    17 Lvl9 feature from the other class 10
    18 Lvl10 features from both classes 10
    19 Ability Score Increase 11
    20 Lvl11 features from both classes 11

    Spoiler: Features that scale by class level (list)
    Show
    Spellcasting for all classes
    Barbarian:
    - Rage
    Druid:
    - Wild shape
    Fighter:
    - Second Wind
    - Battlemaster superiority dice and maneuvers
    Monk:
    - Martial arts
    - Ki Points
    - Unarmored Movement
    - Elemental Disciplines
    Paladin:
    - Lay on Hands
    Rogue:
    - Sneak Attack
    Sorcerer:
    - Font of Magic
    Warlock:
    - Pact Magic
    - Invocations
    Wizard:
    - Arcane Recovery

    Spoiler: Design Notes
    Show
    The features and the scaling by class level of features are now both up to level 11: this is the start of tier3 features and progression, so that made a nice capstone. Levels 7, 11 and 15 you gain no features, as those are levels you gain power jumps in the scaling features, and this way i could make it go till lvl11 features nicely. I do realize more features could be chosen for 'scaling by class level' (bardic inspiration, extra attacks for fighters), but as far as i can see those are all also noted in the features list from their classes individually. This is why I didn't include them in the scaling list.


    Specials at features:

    Feature’s granting Heavy Armor proficiency
    If one of the classes gives you heavy armor proficiency while you do not have medium armor proficiency, you instead gain armor proficiency one step higher (none - light - medium - heavy)

    Features adding your spellcasting modifier to damage of spells
    If both classes have features that add your spellcasting modifier to the damage of spells you cast, you only add your spellcasting modifier once. If you have multiple spellcasting abilities, you may choose which one to add.

    Fighting Style
    If both classes would give a fighting style in the first three levels of the class, you gain only the first you would get, but you may choose from either class' options.

    Channel Divinity
    If both classes would give you uses of Channel Divinity, you get the options of both classes. If both classes give you uses, you get only one class’s uses (player's choice).

    Unarmored Defence
    If both classes would give you Unarmored Defence, you may choose which one to use. They do not stack.

    ASI’s
    Some classes give an extra ASI aside from those in the table above. That ASI counts as a class feature, and you gain it at the appropriate level listed in the table above. If both classes give an extra ASI at the same level, you get only one.

    Spellcasting
    Cantrips
    You follow the progression as per 'Scaling Features as class level' in the table above. If you would gain cantrips from both classes, choose one class' cantrip progression and follow that as per 'Scaling Features as class level' in the table above. You may choose the cantrip from both lists.
    Spell Slots
    Your spell slots are determined by the combination of your classes. If only one has it, use progression as scaling feature progression. If two have the same spellcasting, use full progression. If two have different spellcastings, use the tables below (i made these in a document, but it is too much work to add them here. Might put them online and add a link here later).
    Known/Prepared spells
    You follow the progression as per 'Scaling Features as class level' in the table above. If you have two classes that grant known or prepared spells, you learn/prepare them individually.
    Spellcasting Focus
    You can use both class’ spellcasting focus for both class’ spellcasting if you have more than one spellcasting feature.
    Spellcasting ability
    You can use both class’ spellcasting ability for both class’ spellcasting if you have more than one spellcasting feature.


    So. That is the first second draft. It has been quite a project already, and am kind of stuck on the balancing bit. I want to make this as balanced as possible against the normal classes and multiclass rules. It might not be possible, but at least i want tot try.
    This is where i ask your help. Any thoughts, suggestions, feedback, critique or help in general is more than welcome. (Although I hope to get more than 'this is OP' ofcourse...). Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by RakiReborn; 2016-04-14 at 10:49 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    I made such rules a while ago too. This is different and looks like the balance varies a lot but not a bad idea
    Have an awesome day!

    A (small) part of my Homebrew! And a guide!

    A subclass for me by Ninja_Prawn.

    I am a LG Crusader/cleric

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    Quote Originally Posted by EnderDwarf View Post
    I made such rules a while ago too. This is different and looks like the balance varies a lot but not a bad idea
    Could you link your rules? Or are they not on GiantITP?
    And what exactly do you mean with 'the balance varies a lot'?
    I wish to make these as balanced as possible. And the studies and discussion goes before i will try to playtest these :P
    Extended Signature with Homebrew for 5e

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    Quote Originally Posted by RakiReborn View Post
    Could you link your rules? Or are they not on GiantITP?
    And what exactly do you mean with 'the balance varies a lot'?
    I wish to make these as balanced as possible. And the studies and discussion goes before i will try to playtest these :P
    Well, I think if two classes go together they are way stronger than two others can be. On the other hand, my rules also have this problem. With multiclassing this problem is smaller and everything is often kinda balanced. I'll link mine, don't think they are better than yours

    But a nice job, I think every hybrid system will have this problem and 4e had it too. You always have to pick smart anyways

    Here they are

    Mine are a bit more complicated but I think/hope less abusable. Instead of making a table so you see how much etc. you get I made it a bit more free. Seeing yours I think I could have kept it more simple
    Last edited by PoeticDwarf; 2016-04-14 at 01:30 AM.
    Have an awesome day!

    A (small) part of my Homebrew! And a guide!

    A subclass for me by Ninja_Prawn.

    I am a LG Crusader/cleric

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    Quote Originally Posted by EnderDwarf View Post
    Well, I think if two classes go together they are way stronger than two others can be. On the other hand, my rules also have this problem. With multiclassing this problem is smaller and everything is often kinda balanced. I'll link mine, don't think they are better than yours

    But a nice job, I think every hybrid system will have this problem and 4e had it too. You always have to pick smart anyways

    Here they are

    Mine are a bit more complicated but I think/hope less abusable. Instead of making a table so you see how much etc. you get I made it a bit more free. Seeing yours I think I could have kept it more simple
    Wow, your post was what actually inspired me to go brew this :)
    You are right, two classes together are stronger. Thats why i make the progression slower. The first three levels are the strongest right not, and probably will stay the strongest, but since the game is quite deadly at that level, i think it is fine. The armor restrictions keep it deadly.

    I went back a step or 10 in my mind last night, and looked at the hybrid rules from 4th ed and the gestallt rules from 3rd ed. It occured to me that i was too fixed on progressing both at the same time, that i lost sight of what i wanted. I will remake my rules for Hybrid classes, and use this to make Gestallt classes. I now know how better how to go about it. I hope to make the changes today.
    Extended Signature with Homebrew for 5e

    All my homebrew is open for use or playtests for everyone. If used or playtested, i would LOVE to hear what you find of it!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rakireborn's [S]Hybrid[/S] Gestallt Class Rules Supplement

    Made the changes i had in mind. Should be a lot better balanced now. Design notes explain my choices a bit, any questions about it i will answer.
    The Hybrid rules will come soon.
    Extended Signature with Homebrew for 5e

    All my homebrew is open for use or playtests for everyone. If used or playtested, i would LOVE to hear what you find of it!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Gestallt (former 'Hybrid') Class Rules Supplement

    This one is also already starting to get lost in the vast amounts of homebrew that is made here. Are there no comments at all?
    Is it playtestable? :)
    Extended Signature with Homebrew for 5e

    All my homebrew is open for use or playtests for everyone. If used or playtested, i would LOVE to hear what you find of it!

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