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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    5e doesnt, strictly speaking, need any. If the players need a few to keep them from attempting to blow up the starting town with level 9 spells they can't cast for most of the campaign, that's a different matter.
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    According to some people on these forums, 5e needs to be tossed out and started over again, since as it stands it doesn't tell you how to rule every single potential aspect of a game.
    No one said that. Please stop being offensive by exaggerating things to the point of absurdity.

    For instance if I were to tell you that "According to some people on these forums, 5e should never be critiqued, since as it stands the DM can fix anything, even the most broken destructive rules." You would probably be offended.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Houserule: "Creation cannot make magic items." Takes less than ten seconds to think up and tell your players.
    Good Berries aren't magic. They are enchanted. Not all DMs will make that house rule. Some won't even realize the potential for harm and simply allow it. We shouldn't assume all DMs will make the smart choice. Some won't even realize its a problem until its too late and the players have a ton of Good Berries (literally).

    You need, at a bare minimum, a description of the place. And there is a MASSIVE chance you will not get there. Yes, given infinite time, players can do this. What if they're running on a time limit?
    Nah, a few times of casting the spell once each with a simulacra from the chain and the odds show that eventually you'll succeed.

    Again, Feature. It's a once per day guarantee of success. At level 20. If your games can be broken by ONE success, you might want to modify your game a little.
    combined with everything else like no rolling under 9 (on the dice), double proficiency bonus, etc...etc... you end up with the only class (other than Bard) that can pretty much auto-succeed at most hard skill checks and then pull off the 'nearly impossible' when it rarely shows up in the game.

    At level 20, I would assume. (If I am wrong, correct me, please.) That won't kill: Most Adult Dragons, Balors, Pit Fiends, the Tarrasque, Iron Golems, Krakens... Use tougher BBEG if you're worried about getting them one-shot, or use Shield Guardians on weaker ones.
    They can do it much earlier. They can do enough damage to take out most BBEGs once a day at any given level once they get smite.

    "Borrowed from a monster entry." As in already written into the game. How is that a house rule?
    First it applies to Lycanthropes. Second it notes that it happens because of an alignment change which doesn't happen with True Polymorph. So yes, it is clearly a house rule.

    Good job! You used a spell to overcome a challenge! How is that not working as intended?

    More than that, you need to cross a giant chasm. Unless there's a Roc nearby, Animal Friendship won't do much. (But, you say, you could have a hawk fly a rope across! But that can also be achieved by a bow and arrow, a much cheaper resource.)
    Have you seen the stats on animals? They can all attempt perception checks and keep watch. Never surprised, never fail a perception check that smell can help. Pretty much any check can be overcome with the right animal. Need a door smashed? bear. Need a pit jumped? any of the great cats. Need to retrieve something that you can't reach? flying snake.


    No, it requires a living world. That's not a houserule, that's a realistic consequence in most game settings.
    That's not a living world. That's a DM papering over some really broken stuff. I wouldn't pay for a game that I would have to this for. I also would avoid DMing because I want to spend my DM time making adventures and depicting a living world that doesn't specifically counter the players.
    I get what you are saying, but that is only one of the many play styles. The game doesn't work for other play styles.

    Anytime the DM has to specifically counter a players actions in an unrealistic manner such as having clones destroyed all the time when they are hidden in an unreachable secret place immune to scrying the game is broken.

    DMing is handling the corner case, not having an arms race with casters. We learned that in 3.x.

    Three things: One, point to the part of the stat block that says "This creature originates from X plane". There isn't any.
    "Celestials are creatures native to the Upper Planes. Many of them are the servants of deities, employed as messengers or agents in the mortal realm and throughout the planes. Celestials are good by nature, so the exceptional celestial who strays from a good alignment is a horrifying rarity. Celestials include angels, couatls, and pegasi."

    Oh look, if we turn it into a celestial, we can banish it. Other extra-planar creature types have similar descriptions from the MM.

    Two, it also requires two failed saves. What with legendary resistance on the truly tough monsters, that ain't likely.
    Every BBEG in the game isn't a legendary or has legendary resistance. Even then casting other spells first to soften it up is a viable strategy.

    Oh, and point three: If you fail to Banish them after you TP them, you just gave them extra HP.
    Actually the caster just stops concentrating and it returns to normal form:
    "You can end concentration at any time (no action required)."

    Most DMs here. People here are kinda crazy on optimizing (myself included). Like I said, the math shows it holds up pretty dang well in featless campaigns (and people do run featless campaigns-just not many on these threads).
    Yes, people run featless campaigns and those game are a little more balanced (but not much). Other DMs run campaigns using feats and in those games feats can be a problem.

    Wish is powerful, yes. The last point is something I'll concede-that should have a duration. Everything else, though, is Wish working as intended.
    Everything on there is extremely broken. Once a day you can cast a spell that costs a fortune or requires some insanely long casting time, you know, the things meant to limit those spells use.

    53% chance their Teleport goes awry, assuming you count them as having seen it casually. Now raise that to the power of seven for the chances of them Teleporting successfully that many times.
    How would the BBEG see it? Its warded against scrying, its deep underground with no entrances or exits. That means a 26% chance if they somehow manage to get a description.

    And why didn't the bad guys pick up their weapons and gear?
    Because they have about a round to act. That's about 6 seconds before the naked reinforcements arrive still dripping clone fluid.

    I conceded Contagion and Creation to you. It's clear RAI, but I'm counting them as house-rules.

    For the Create Undead bit, again, living world, not house-rules.
    Living world = DMs trying to counter casters with scenarios that become more and more unbelievable. I mean you find the players clone lab once maybe with a super clever Moriarty BBEG, but the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th times the players are going to be looking at you with unbelief. When the players never find piles of bones or are unable to dig them up themselves or unable to find corpses (no seriously in your world creatures just disappear when they die like in a video game?)

    You know, like set an ambush up at the base of the Rope Trick. Or lock all the doors leaving the room. Or instill a time limit (the gate closes in 4 hours! You have till then to get there).
    They have a window they look through so they see the ambush coming (and that's if the creatures magically find the entrance which is invisible 9 feet in the air). Yes you can lock the door but the Wizard/Rogue is only going to open a lock and be on their merry way. You can put time limits on everything if you want, but that's just another thing I don't want to have to do as a DM.

    "They're trying to kill you"-so they pepper you with ranged attacks and DO NOT follow you in to the highly suspicious looking portal. It'll work on dumb enemies-not smart ones.
    Around the corner? It'll work on most enemies that are in the heat of battle and think you are about to get away.

    "You charmed them"-"Hey buddy, take a nap, why don't you?" And then everybody crits him to death because he's asleep. If you managed to charm them that well, they're dead anyway.
    Yes, because "I bought you a cake and its in that room over there." is mind control

    "Shoving them in"-Requires some pretty good positioning and teamwork. If done successfully, then yeah, it was a fight and you won. Working as intended, just with a clever finisher.
    Moving creatures around is actually pretty easy in 5e. Even then it avoids tons of difficult encounters that would potentially take a lot of resources and its once per day.

    "Its a lich? Hmmm ok time for demi-plane. Thunderwave and vine whip it next to the door then push it in. I'll ready an action to close the door and cast arcane lock."

    I'm sorry, this place needs the 16 Keys of Altoroth spread across the entire multiverse, and the door is totally immune to magic and mundane ways of destruction. Why is it so far-fetched that a 13th level Cleric spent 1,000 GP and a month of his life Forbidding it?
    Its not just the super door. Its any plot related door in adventures above 7th level.

    The same Teleport trick you mentioned earlier. First you could use it, now you can't. Make up your mind, please.
    They can't use it because they don't have any information about it. If they manage to find a description somewhere (drunk barbarian bragging perhaps?) they have a 26% chance getting there.

    I'd like to see some actual numbers on that. There's quite a bit of Huge+ creatures in the game. It's not that hard to make anyone important big (make your campaign about hunting dragons! Make the BBEG Wizard a Dracolich! Or a Giant with caster levels!) and mobs are pretty dang resistant to that.
    Yes, because all campaigns are about giant+ sized dragons with caster levels with Moriarty level intellects from level 1.

    So far the DM has to make everything have a time limit, and the only bosses you can use are 15'x15' or larger who hire extra-dimensional creatures to raid the players safe houses. This is sounding more and more like 3.x with each post.

    And Imprisonment is both a 9th level spell (meaning you risk nearly killing yourself with Wish) and allows a saving throw (so Legendary Resistance makes it foolhardy to try on BBEG).
    Nah, you just get your 3-5 simulacra to cast it repeatedly at the thing.

    Geas does not work like that. It does damage to people, but not nearly enough to threaten anything CR 3 or greater. So yeah, you could snag a lot of CR 2 slaves with it... But you could also hire them with cash. Not game-breaking.
    Wish [Geas] (touch me), Teleport.

    Nice strawman you got there.
    Its not a straw man. That's literally what you were suggesting. I mean the first time it happens, sure. After that it becomes unbelievable.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    You can do that, but it's technically not necessary. The rules explicitly say that the DM decides how the PCs acquire any magic items. Casting Creation, or any other spell, is not one of the RAW methods of getting magic items. There are treasure tables, and an optional crafting system, but nothing else.
    Sorry, but unless you have a quote with a page number, I can't help you. The only things I see are that the DM controls buying and selling of magic items and whether to use the tables to generate magic items as part of treasure. I see nothing about the DM disallowing magic items created by spells.
    Its bad when the DM has to twist and convolute the plot and world to prevent a player from breaking the game.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    He means that magic items are an optional part of the game, like feats and multiclassing, so a DM can rule that creation doesnt make something that simply doesnt exist in game (ironically). No need to antagonize guys.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2016-04-13 at 02:29 AM.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    He means that magic items are an optional part of the game, like feats and multiclassing, so a DM can rule that creation doesnt make something that simply doesnt exist in game (ironically). No need to antagonize guys.
    Again, please quote the passage in the book. The only things I can find are quotes about buying and selling and finding magic items as treasure. Now some DMs might house rule that there aren't any magic items in their world, but without some kind of direct quote, by RAW you can create magic items.
    Its bad when the DM has to twist and convolute the plot and world to prevent a player from breaking the game.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewDM View Post
    ... by RAW you can create magic items.
    The rules say what, not how, on the option to create them. The details are left up to each case (or to each table). That's quite consistent with the theme of lightening up on the rules burden.

    This opens up some neat quest opportunities. The Phoenix and the Mirror (Avram Davidson) is all about a quest to get ingredients for a magic item. Stories/plots/quests like that can enrich a campaign.

    How many house rules does 5e need?
    None.
    How many house rules does a given table need?
    That depends on the DM and the table.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2016-04-13 at 07:29 AM.
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    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    According to some people on these forums, 5e needs to be tossed out and started over again, since as it stands it doesn't tell you how to rule every single potential aspect of a game.
    Hello, Strawman. The Emerald City is that way if you're still looking for a heart.

    5e needs to be tweaked because it doesn't really have a skill system, just a "roll a d20 and let the DM decide" system. It's much too random and doesn't do a good enough job representing competence for my taste. That's it.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewDM View Post
    Again, please quote the passage in the book. The only things I can find are quotes about buying and selling and finding magic items as treasure. Now some DMs might house rule that there aren't any magic items in their world, but without some kind of direct quote, by RAW you can create magic items.
    It's in the DMG, therefore it's an optional rule for the GM to use.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Hello, Strawman. The Emerald City is that way if you're still looking for a heart.

    5e needs to be tweaked because it doesn't really have a skill system, just a "roll a d20 and let the DM decide" system. It's much too random and doesn't do a good enough job representing competence for my taste. That's it.
    First of all, the Scarecrow was looking for a brain, let's keep the reference straight shall we.

    Second, at least in my experience, "roll a d20 and let the DM decide" was true also in 3.5, considering that knowing skills DC is obvious metagaming, whoever tried was quickly showed the door.
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewDM View Post
    by RAW you can create magic items.
    No, by RAW you most certainly can't.
    The Creation spell is quite explicit in comparison to many other much more open to interpretation spells. It allows you to emulate items consisting of mineral or plant matter and nothing more. It does not include allowances to emulate items consisting of magic energy, regardless of anything else within that item's composition.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Lantern View Post
    First of all, the Scarecrow was looking for a brain, let's keep the reference straight shall we.

    Second, at least in my experience, "roll a d20 and let the DM decide" was true also in 3.5, considering that knowing skills DC is obvious metagaming, whoever tried was quickly showed the door.
    My bad. But no, knowing that it's, oh, a DC 18 check to climb a stone wall is NOT metagaming. It also was much less of a d20 issue because your modifier wasn't so drastically overshadowed by the die.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    My bad. But no, knowing that it's, oh, a DC 18 check to climb a stone wall is NOT metagaming. It also was much less of a d20 issue because your modifier wasn't so drastically overshadowed by the die.
    While I agree with you that the skill system could use some tweaking for those who don't like the current one (works well for my group, but I can see why it doesn't work for you based on your discussions in the past), I'm not sure if I agree with your metagame analysis.

    I mean, I can't go outside right now and tell you the DC to climb to the roof of my office building by scaling the wall. Why should my character be able to do the same? If my character does know the Difficulty Check - why is he using such odd language to describe he climb? That seems very much like a metagame thing - to use the rules of the game to make an in-character decision, rather than making a decision from the perspective of the character.

    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point; if so, can you restate it?

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    My bad. But no, knowing that it's, oh, a DC 18 check to climb a stone wall is NOT metagaming. It also was much less of a d20 issue because your modifier wasn't so drastically overshadowed by the die.
    Different groups, different tastes I guess, whenever I played 3.5 I never knew what the DC were in the game, PHB tables or not.
    I also have the complete opposite view on the skill system than yours, I really disliked the "specialize or **** you" approach of 3.5.

    Now, to get my intervention back on topic I don't think 5e need houserules, there are tweaks can be made here and there, depending on the group preference, but nothing mandatory, most of the most "broken" issue also mostly depend on the players (not) following the golden rule (don't be a ****)
    Last edited by Blue Lantern; 2016-04-13 at 09:05 AM.
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgshamster View Post
    While I agree with you that the skill system could use some tweaking for those who don't like the current one (works well for my group, but I can see why it doesn't work for you based on your discussions in the past), I'm not sure if I agree with your metagame analysis.

    I mean, I can't go outside right now and tell you the DC to climb to the roof of my office building by scaling the wall. Why should my character be able to do the same? If my character does know the Difficulty Check - why is he using such odd language to describe he climb? That seems very much like a metagame thing - to use the rules of the game to make an in-character decision, rather than making a decision from the perspective of the character.

    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point; if so, can you restate it?

    I may be wrong, but I think his point is that he would know in character, not the exact DC, but merely how hard or easy it would be to scale a stone wall without asking the DC but just knowing the rules.

    That said I agree wholeheartedly with you.
    Last edited by Blue Lantern; 2016-04-13 at 08:23 AM.
    After years of disintoxication I'm back in the D&D tunnel

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    No games "need" house rules, by default, in a vacuum. What a particular DM or table wants a game to be determines whether there need to be house rules. For me, 5e needs house rules to make mundane resource management and wilderness exploration more relevant and robust, and needs an XP system tied to treasure recovery, and needs some spells toned down or altered, and some classes and races removed.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgshamster View Post
    I mean, I can't go outside right now and tell you the DC to climb to the roof of my office building by scaling the wall. Why should my character be able to do the same? If my character does know the Difficulty Check - why is he using such odd language to describe he climb? That seems very much like a metagame thing - to use the rules of the game to make an in-character decision, rather than making a decision from the perspective of the character.
    You wouldn't say DC in character, sure, but I bet that if you were a trained climber you'd have a pretty good idea of how hard it would be too climb, yes? That's what knowing the DC represents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Lantern View Post
    I also have the complete opposite view on the skill system than yours, I really disliked the "specialize or **** you" approach of 3.5.
    3.5 went too far one way (and was much too stingy with the ability to specialize to boot), I think 5e went too far the other. But I understand that it works for a lot of people, so eh.

    Now, to get my intervention back on topic I don't think 3.5 need houserules, there are tweaks can be made here and there, depending on the group preference, but nothing mandatory, most of the most "broken" issue also mostly depend on the players (not) following the golden rule (don't be a ****)
    Agreed. Most theoretical balance concerns don't pop up at tables. The most important things to address are things like the Beastmaster feeling weird or the Four Elements Monk not getting to use its powers often enough- things that make the game more fun, rather than "balanced."

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    I'm reminded of a 5E game I played some time back with too many houserules- which mostly served to just make everything harder. The DM and all of the players but myself had a very poor grasp on the rules, and the DM would just continually introduce houserules to 'balance' things without understanding what balance was. This led to already weak things being nerfed, already strong things being buffed, and some changes that were just plain weird. One of the most egregious was forcing Fighters to have a level of exhaustion after using their Action Surge, which was just hideously annoying. Luckily, I managed to talk her out of that one in the end, but other annoying rules just kept happening.
    I think of it as a cautionary tale against making houserules when you don't know the real rules.
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    So maybe the game needs more official examples of DCs, that doesn't mean it's broken. Almost every example I've seen that people have used to show the game is broken isn't something that happens in a usual game, it happens in theory-crafting or when players are deliberately attempting to break the game. But that sort of thing happens regardless of the game system, regardless of the amount of official rulings, or splatbooks. No, I don't think 5e is perfect, I just think it's futile to try and restrain player creativity by attempting to figure out every single way that a player could attempt to break a game.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewDM View Post
    Sorry, but unless you have a quote with a page number, I can't help you. The only things I see are that the DM controls buying and selling of magic items and whether to use the tables to generate magic items as part of treasure. I see nothing about the DM disallowing magic items created by spells.
    I wasn't asking for your help, but the rule is on p. 128. "Magic items are the DM's purview, so you decide how they fall into the party's possession."

    You're right that a goodberry is not technically a magic item, however. It's a spell effect, and one that isn't duplicated by Creation.
    Last edited by JoeJ; 2016-04-13 at 09:24 AM.
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    No games "need" house rules, by default, in a vacuum. What a particular DM or table wants a game to be determines whether there need to be house rules. For me, 5e needs house rules to make mundane resource management and wilderness exploration more relevant and robust, and needs an XP system tied to treasure recovery, and needs some spells toned down or altered, and some classes and races removed.
    1GP =1XP like in 1e? I quite like 5e so far, but when you get the other rules beyond the free online rules and the Starter Set, so far I feel that the game is made better by subtraction rather than addition.
    But then I prefer to play the "Champion" Fighter, so If I judge the forums mood right, I must be missing something.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    In my experience, it needs none. Maybe at high levels, the simulacrum thingy, but havenīt encountered anything yet. Iīve a list of things that for our tables make the game a little bit better (flanking rules, have the DM role the death saving throws), but nothing that's needed.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    I usually run with my own "Hero Points" system and relatively open-ended list of "Don't break the setting with magic. Here's a list of the types of effects that usually aren't OK. If you aren't sure, ask"

    That's about it for house rules. I'll often introduce custom races, or put restraints on the default list but that's more in the realm of setting specifics than "house rules" meant to fix something.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Especially relative to something like 3rd edition, with its innumerable dysfunctions.
    There is just one REALLY needed. The onion druid

    Fixing feats as GWM or Sharpshooter. Buffing the berserker or something else isn't needed
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    I truly believe the reason we are even talking about houserules, is that as players, some of us have a tendency to try to bend and bypass rules. We make it "our" fun to push the limits of the given system, without thinking of the fun of the entire table. There is a difference between thought exercises of can I make a build that does (insert your idea here), and the idea of actually getting people that have never played before to actually, you know, role-play a character in a fictitious world, for fun and escapism.

    However the prevalency of the internet, means that many new players will search for build advice and stumble upon our theory crafting, when instead they are actually looking for a good class description, or how to use their skills or spells. Even new players explicitly looking/asking for aid are met with our theory crafting and told to use multi-classing or class dips, as a opposed to being steered to an appropriate class. We create character guides that tell them certain options MUST be taken and that others are complete garbage, that they must max out such and such stats and take this or that feat in order to be relevant. Sure this is a forum and many of US understand the game rules and mechanics, and we like to theorycraft, and there is NOTHING wrong with that... but we are not the sole audience of the game materials.

    I believe that we may have gotten bored, that we see it as a competition against our fellow players or the DM, or that our personalities can't take the idea of no win scenarios, but there is a certain beauty in several people coming together to tell a story, in which they all contribute... bonds are made and strengthened, the fires of creativity are lit, and maybe just maybe... everyone had fun.

    Do the rules have some problems... perhaps. But is the problem the rule itself or the player taking advantage of how it was written. If it is the rule, then errata is probably needed, or a houserule can be created for your table. If it is the latter, then that is a discussion that needs to happen between everyone involved, so that expectations of all players can be met. This may mean that someone is looking for another group, they create another character, maybe they DM for sometime to meet their creative urges.

    Again as I try to state in my posts... this is MY opinion and I am not telling anyone else that their fun is wrong. Keep gaming
    Last edited by Fighting_Ferret; 2016-04-13 at 09:48 AM.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Something to keep in mind is that almost any text can be interpreted in more than one way. This includes the rules of games. The fact that a rule can be interpreted in a way that's abusive does not prove that the game is broken, or that a house rule is needed to counter that interpretation.

    If fact, I will here formally propose the Zeroth Rule of Gaming: No rule in any game shall be interpreted in a way that breaks the game if it is possible to interpret that rule in a way that does not.
    Last edited by JoeJ; 2016-04-13 at 10:04 AM.
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    If fact, I will here formally propose the Zeroth Rule of Gaming: No rule in any game shall be interpreted in a way that breaks the game if it is possible to interpret that rule in a way that does not.
    Doesn't that fall under "don't be a ****?"

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Doesn't that fall under "don't be a ****?"
    But his rule sounded fancier!!!
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    Something to keep in mind is that almost any text can be interpreted in more than one way. This includes the rules of games. The fact that a rule can be interpreted in a way that's abusive does not prove that the game is broken, or that a house rule is needed to counter that interpretation.

    If fact, I will here formally propose the Zeroth Rule of Gaming: No rule in any game shall be interpreted in a way that breaks the game if it is possible to interpret that rule in a way that does not.
    The issue is that what's "abusive" or "breaks" the game is super subjective. You need I think firmer and more system or situationally specific guidelines.

    Someone like me who has a take roughly on the rules as:

    The game world is it's own thing and the designers provided us the rules as an easy to use generic abstraction for looking at the world. Nothing about the rules is real in the universe and where contradictions, conflicts or seemingly nonsensical things happen it's just an artififact of creating an accessible abstraction, or simply a case the designers missed. We'll ignore, re-write, or acknowledge the limited scope of the rules as needed.

    Is going to disagree where the game breaks with someone with take on the rules of roughly:

    The game world is defined by the rules. While they can't be strictly taken as physics in every case if the rules say something than that's true. If something comes up that's contradictory or nonsensical either the world was poorly written, or folks there simply haven't realized how things really work. We'll stick to the rules change he world as needs to fit with how things actually work.


    Consider how these two mindsets might approach the say a series of "Teleportation Gateway" spells that are somewhat easy for the players to cast and create long distance instant two-way travel that is stable and safe.

    The first mindset might say: "Sure. That's how the spell works in game, but it's apparent that since the setting still has traditional shipping and overland caravan routes that the design is failing to account for some real force in-universe for the sake of gameplay. If it comes up, we'll flesh out the reasons this spell doesn't work for any kind of large scale trading operation. This may mean changing the rules a bit if we keep the spell in focus"

    The second mindset might say: "Wow. This world is stupid. Let's get rich outrunning all those caravans and ships with our Teleportation!"

    The first group would probably see the second group as breaking the game. While the second group would probably see the first group as wanting to unfairly hamstring players. Now these are two extreme ends of the spectrum and most folks probably dont' fall on one end or the other. However in any given group it's unlikely that everyone falls in the exact same spot and so expectation setting has to go a bit beyond "Don't break the game, jerk".
    Last edited by Mr.Moron; 2016-04-13 at 10:39 AM.

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Good Berries aren't magic. They are enchanted.
    The description specifically says the berries are created and are infused with magic.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewDM View Post
    Good Berries aren't magic. They are enchanted. Not all DMs will make that house rule. Some won't even realize the potential for harm and simply allow it. We shouldn't assume all DMs will make the smart choice. Some won't even realize its a problem until its too late and the players have a ton of Good Berries (literally)
    What is the difference between something which is "magic" and something which is "enchanted"?

    /edit: ninja'd
    Last edited by eastmabl; 2016-04-13 at 11:19 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: How Many Houserules Does 5E Need?

    5e is a pretty open ended skeleton of a game. It needs tons of house rules, it's designed around accepting tons of house rules and easily balancing them.

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