Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

[Ezekiel_2517]

It pushes everything else back two levels as well. Is it worth waiting until 13th level to get that 3rd Pact Magic slot per short rest?

True, but how else can you make a decent Bladelock without going Hexblade?

[JakOfAllTirades]

True, but how else can you make a decent Bladelock without going Hexblade?

Either go VHuman and start with the Moderately Armored feat, choose a race with Armor Proficiencies, or otherwise take the feat at 4th level.

Done.

I'm playing a half-drow Fey/Blade Warlock right now using this build, and it's working out just fine. He's got a decent AC and casts at his full character level because I didn't have to multi-class.

[Skylivedk]

I'm looking for feedback from in play experience to see if it's worth staying Hexblade or if a Bard/Sorc dip is better later; also I'd like feedback on my next ASI.

My current (pure) Hexblade is about to become level 9. I think, I'll stay Hexblade until at least 11 or 12 (for the ASI).

Race Half-Drow (with Drow Magic)
Stats:
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 18
Feats: GWM, Elven Accuracy.
Role: DPR/Face
I took Int over Wis for RP reasons. Instead of the Raven Queen, I'm playing with Shar as his patron, so in return for his powers, he has to erase notable individuals from (future) public memory or his own memory suffers.

Had I rebuild him, I would have started with a Sorcerer level for the Con proficiency and more level 1 spells + cantrips (DS or Shadow Sorc).

Concentration has been a bit of struggle (whenever Bless isn't running in particular), so I've been thinking of Warcaster or Res:Con for my next ASI. Of course CHA is also tempting and so is PAM due to CHA doubling on all attacks. What are your experiences? As for the ASI, I could see all 4 choices be solid. Res:Con would help survivability as well (only near death was a medusa's petrifying stare), while Warcaster would up DPR as well. The reaction attack from PAM seems more valuable than the Bonus Action attack (since the BA is quite often used for GWM cleave attacks or to add Baleful Curse).

The spell selections for Mystic Arcanum seem a bit lackluster to be honest, hence my dip consideration. I could see more low level spells/metamagic/utility from Bard add quite a lot.

[Ezekiel_2517]

Either go VHuman and start with the Moderately Armored feat, choose a race with Armor Proficiencies, or otherwise take the feat at 4th level.

Done.

I'm playing a half-drow Fey/Blade Warlock right now using this build, and it's working out just fine. He's got a decent AC and casts at his full character level because I didn't have to multi-class.

Looks like that would be fun. I'll try to make something like that work. Thanks a lot for the feedback

[Aidamis]

I'm looking for feedback from in play experience to see if it's worth staying Hexblade or if a Bard/Sorc dip is better later; also I'd like feedback on my next ASI.

My current (pure) Hexblade is about to become level 9. I think, I'll stay Hexblade until at least 11 or 12 (for the ASI).

Race Half-Drow (with Drow Magic)
Stats:
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 18
Feats: GWM, Elven Accuracy.
Role: DPR/Face
I took Int over Wis for RP reasons. Instead of the Raven Queen, I'm playing with Shar as his patron, so in return for his powers, he has to erase notable individuals from (future) public memory or his own memory suffers.

Had I rebuild him, I would have started with a Sorcerer level for the Con proficiency and more level 1 spells + cantrips (DS or Shadow Sorc).

Concentration has been a bit of struggle (whenever Bless isn't running in particular), so I've been thinking of Warcaster or Res:Con for my next ASI. Of course CHA is also tempting and so is PAM due to CHA doubling on all attacks. What are your experiences? As for the ASI, I could see all 4 choices be solid. Res:Con would help survivability as well (only near death was a medusa's petrifying stare), while Warcaster would up DPR as well. The reaction attack from PAM seems more valuable than the Bonus Action attack (since the BA is quite often used for GWM cleave attacks or to add Baleful Curse).

The spell selections for Mystic Arcanum seem a bit lackluster to be honest, hence my dip consideration. I could see more low level spells/metamagic/utility from Bard add quite a lot.

Smart choice of race and stat distribution. Dipping Sorc will certainly make you a bit more flexible. For your Feat choice I'm with you on the PAM feat - a lot of times attack is the best defense. PAM with your GWM is a good combo.

[Trustypeaches]

True, but how else can you make a decent Bladelock without going Hexblade?

Take a single level of fighter to start with?

That gets you heavy Armor so you can dump dex, CON save proficiency, all the weapon proficiencies, and a Fighting Style.

A single level of Barbarian does most of the same thing, except you can’t dump dex, and you trade a fighting style for rage with interrupts spellcasting (though does have some nice synergy with armor of Agathys).

[JakOfAllTirades]

Take a single level of fighter to start with?

That gets you heavy Armor so you can dump dex, CON save proficiency, all the weapon proficiencies, and a Fighting Style.

A single level of Barbarian does most of the same thing, except you can’t dump dex, and you trade a fighting style for rage with interrupts spellcasting (though does have some nice synergy with armor of Agathys).

Sure, you can do that, but the question was how to make a playable (non-Hexblade) Bladelock without multiclassing.

[Trustypeaches]

Sure, you can do that, but the question was how to make a playable (non-Hexblade) Bladelock without multiclassing.

Was that the question?

The comment I was responding to was on a chain discussing a 2 level Barbarian dip. Someone pointed out flaws in that strategy, and the question was posed "how else does one make a non-hexblade bladelock".

[JakOfAllTirades]

Was that the question?

The comment I was responding to was on a chain discussing a 2 level Barbarian dip. Someone pointed out flaws in that strategy, and the question was posed "how else does one make a non-hexblade bladelock".

See the follow-up posts; we were discussing how to do it without delaying the Warlock's spellcasting progression, which would rule out multi-classing as an option.

[Aidamis]

True, but how else can you make a decent Bladelock without going Hexblade?

Hello! I like your Barbarian dip idea, good perks and nice RP opportunities for a character that began as a fierce "non-magical" warrior. Non Hexblade Bladelocks have been often talked about before this patron option existed. Apart from a Fighter 1 or Paladin 1 dip, you could try one or more Rogue levels for a Dex bladelock, take 3 or more levels in Valor or Swords Bard, or even stay single class as a Mountain Dwarf or Gythyanki for racial weapons and armor proficiencies and take Pact of the Fiend. All of those can work.

Have a good day!

[Ezekiel_2517]

Thank you all for the kind words and good advices.
I've looked into a lot of multiclass options available and for this character i thought starting as a Barbarian would be the best as I couldn't see how to make a single class Bladelock viable.
I've already played a fighter1/warlockx. Never thought about a rogue/warlock though. So thanks for that idea.
For the upcoming campaign I'm going with jackofalltrades idea to stay single class. As I agree with losing spellprogression hurts a lot.

Thanks again for all the advice

[Aidamis]

Thank you all for the kind words and good advices.
I've looked into a lot of multiclass options available and for this character i thought starting as a Barbarian would be the best as I couldn't see how to make a single class Bladelock viable.
I've already played a fighter1/warlockx. Never thought about a rogue/warlock though. So thanks for that idea.
For the upcoming campaign I'm going with jackofalltrades idea to stay single class. As I agree with losing spellprogression hurts a lot.

Thanks again for all the advice

You're welcome, man! I also agree that jackofalltirades offered the simplest solution as far as single-class was concerned. Thinking of using it on a melee Bard :)

[tieren]

I've come to the conclusion that pact slots are not for hp damage. If I want to do hp damage I have an awesome cantrip for that. The pact slots generally go to control or buff effects (hypnotic pattern, greater invisibility, polymorph, etc...

I've also noticed that my spell DC is uncommonly high. The rods of the pact keeper are on the AL evergreen item list, I have the plus 2 now. At level 9 my DC is 19 (8 base+4 proficiency+5 cha mod+2 rod of pact keeper). The rod makes a lot of difference, from what I can tell other casters only have one item that can increase your DC and it doesn't seem to come up much. I can summon greater demons for instance and be confident they won't break control Barluga has a .0025% chance of breaking loose now (once I make it tell me its true name). By level 13 proficiency will go up again and I'll have enough treasure points to get the +3 rod putting my DC at 21. The save or nothing spells don't seem so bad with the save DC's that high.

[Corran]

I've come to the conclusion that pact slots are not for hp damage.

I see 4 exceptions to that:
1) Hex, because of the augmented duration (dropping it when we need to concentrate on sth else)
2) Synaptic static (sometimes throwing a damage AoE is a good idea)
3) Smites (sometimes nova is a good idea)
4) Armor of agathys is a good no-concentration spell that we can pre cast, so it can be a good way to spend a slot before entering an encounter.

[Trustypeaches]

I see 4 exceptions to that:
1) Hex, because of the augmented duration (dropping it when we need to concentrate on sth else)
2) Synaptic static (sometimes throwing a damage AoE is a good idea)
3) Smites (sometimes nova is a good idea)
4) Armor of agathys is a good no-concentration spell that we can pre cast, so it can be a good way to spend a slot before entering an encounter.

AoE Damage in general is a great use of your spell slots and something that you can’t accomplish with Eldritch Blast.

[werescythe]

What Pact Boon would be good for a character who is aTabaxi Archfey Warlock, themed off of the Cheshire Cat?

[Darc_Vader]

What Pact Boon would be good for a character who is aTabaxi Archfey Warlock, themed off of the Cheshire Cat?

I would probably say Tome in general, but an invisible familiar with Voice of the Chain Master could be very thematically fitting.

[werescythe]

I would probably say Tome in general, but an invisible familiar with Voice of the Chain Master could be very thematically fitting.

I could go with either one of those. It might be kind of fun to have a familiar named, Alyce.

[Kereea]

So, working on a Kenku Warlock idea (going Great Old One unless it looks like we're REALLY going to need heals, in which case have a backup plan for Celestial) and had a question: taking a level in Sorcerer would give me 4 more cantrips, right? B/C was already planning Pact of the Tome for its extra Cantrips, but with a level of sorcerer that's be a whole 9 of the dang things to play with once I have Sorcerer 1/Warlock 3. And an additional 2 lv 1 spells every long rest.

My current plant for Tome cantrips, since they're from any class were:
Shillelagh: (lets me use CHA if hitting with a staff, and Kenku are proficient with staffs)
Fire Bolt: For setting things on fire
Minor Illusion: Okay, it's on the Warlock list already, but I'm taking Chill Touch and Eldritch Blast as my main duo from that. The other option would be magic stone, which admittedly would fit the character (she carves rocks, and thus had rocks around to enchant in her pockets on the regular)

Srsly, if I get four more...well for one, Chisel the Kenku may go a wee bit mad with that kinda power and variety. Plus, like, if I can get Chromatic Orb and Feather Fall to keep in my back pocket as long-rest-only Lv 1 spells...I would be a VERY happy Kenku-player (I just have a weird love for Chromatic Orb). Especially with Storm Sorcerer getting Tempestuous Magic at lv1. Getting to fly ten feet on a bonus action is awesomesauce to a flightless flight-loving birdie.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Hang on, doesn't crown of stars automatically dispel your darkness? Could be a deal-breaker, depending on the build.

[Protolisk]

I think by the time you can cast crown of stars, you likely could cast Shadow of Moil, which doesn't have the same issue as Darkness being so easily dispelled.

[Evaar]

So, working on a Kenku Warlock idea (going Great Old One unless it looks like we're REALLY going to need heals, in which case have a backup plan for Celestial) and had a question: taking a level in Sorcerer would give me 4 more cantrips, right? B/C was already planning Pact of the Tome for its extra Cantrips, but with a level of sorcerer that's be a whole 9 of the dang things to play with once I have Sorcerer 1/Warlock 3. And an additional 2 lv 1 spells every long rest.

My current plant for Tome cantrips, since they're from any class were:
Shillelagh: (lets me use CHA if hitting with a staff, and Kenku are proficient with staffs)
Fire Bolt: For setting things on fire
Minor Illusion: Okay, it's on the Warlock list already, but I'm taking Chill Touch and Eldritch Blast as my main duo from that. The other option would be magic stone, which admittedly would fit the character (she carves rocks, and thus had rocks around to enchant in her pockets on the regular)

Srsly, if I get four more...well for one, Chisel the Kenku may go a wee bit mad with that kinda power and variety. Plus, like, if I can get Chromatic Orb and Feather Fall to keep in my back pocket as long-rest-only Lv 1 spells...I would be a VERY happy Kenku-player (I just have a weird love for Chromatic Orb). Especially with Storm Sorcerer getting Tempestuous Magic at lv1. Getting to fly ten feet on a bonus action is awesomesauce to a flightless flight-loving birdie.

You probably made this character already, but I wouldn't recommend Fire Bolt if you're already getting Eldritch Blast. Fire Bolt can set things on fire but is primarily a damage spell. You can get other ways to set things on fire with more flexibility and utility than that. Conjure Bonfire, for instance, or Control Flames. Having three different cantrips to do attacks at range against an enemy's AC is a bit redundant. Chill Touch has some extra use, so that one makes some sense, but I think you'll find you use Eldritch Blast all the time and almost never use Fire Bolt.

If you aren't stuck on being able to light things on fire, Guidance is a great cantrip to have. Shape Water and Mold Earth also offer a lot of utility that are hard to replicate elsewhere.

[werescythe]

Have you guys seen the new UA. Lurker of the Deep Warlock looks like SO much fun.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Have you guys seen the new UA. Lurker of the Deep Warlock looks like SO much fun.

My opinion of it has been somewhat tainted, because I found a homebrew with very similar flavor that seems much more interesting, and also comes with an additional Pact and flavorful new invocations. Kraken Warlocks (posted under a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike copyright) may in fact be my new favorite thing, and I really want to create a build that mixes fear powers to debuff enemies and grappling to further ruin their day and make it so they can't escape (I'm thinking Fallen Aasimar Conquest Paladin 3/Warlock of the Kraken 17, though not sure how I'd split those levels up).

All that said, I do really like the Lurker of the Deep's ability to telepathically communicate with almost anything that has a swim speed, and the transportation mechanic they get at high level is very cool.

[werescythe]

The thing I kind of like about the lurker of the deep patron is how it's tentacle kind of functions like a spiritual weapon.

[togapika]

Warlock class says this "Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of lhe warlock spells you know and replace it with another spell from the warlock spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots."

Does this mean if I go from Warlock 2 to Warlock 3, that I can replace a 1st level spell with another 2nd level spell and have 2 first levels and 2 second levels?

[Zerubbabel]

So I take it from reading this guide a Yuan-ti pureblood with boon of Chain, Pact of the Fiend makes a pretty sweet Warlock?

[ATHATH]

You should probably update your description of the Contagion spell to reflect the effects of the errata that the spell received.

[ATHATH]

Warlock class says this "Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of lhe warlock spells you know and replace it with another spell from the warlock spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots."

Does this mean if I go from Warlock 2 to Warlock 3, that I can replace a 1st level spell with another 2nd level spell and have 2 first levels and 2 second levels?

Yes, it does.

[werescythe]

So another UA came out, only this one provided some additional features for all the classes. I must say that some of them are kind of impressive.

For warlocks they added an new boon (Talisman) and there is even an invocation for Tome users that gives advantage on concentration for spells (so kind of like a mini Warcaster Feat).

Just curious what everyone has thought about it.