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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    blight
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    dream
    I really do only find it useful on occasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    armour of shadows
    It's definitely worth getting excited about before you find studded leather, and you can exchange it if you find a better source of AC.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    ascendant step
    It's good for escaping the reach of melee combatants so you can blast with impunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    devil's sight
    I had forgotten to apply its proper color. Good spotting.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    eldritch sight
    Yeah, if there's a wizard you might as well let him cast it. Otherwise, it's quite useful quite regularly.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    mask of many faces
    Whoops. Good eye.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    master of many faces
    Well-spotted

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    otherworldly leap
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    sign of ill omen/thief of five fates
    You make some solid points. I've updated

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    honorable mention: it is worth noting that, should you so desire, spell of level X - Y (where Y is an integer greater than or equal to 1) cast in a level X slot *is* a level X spell. so, for example, if you feel like you'd rather be able to use mass suggestion twice per day, with one of those uses lasting 10 days... you can totally put it in your level 6 *and* 7 mystic arcanum.
    I don't think that's how it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    conjure fey
    My mistake. Good eye.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    true seeing
    Maybe. It seems to me that Faerie Fire will do just as well in revealing invisible creatures with a lower opportunity cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    etherealness
    Yeah, I think I was a bit unfair here.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    glibness
    ...I had not.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    true polymorph
    Will note.

    Quote Originally Posted by wr4tchild View Post
    Crossbow Expert
    I will purplize Crossbow Expert, although I would point out that Shocking Grasp has a solid chance of providing advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    Fiendish Vigor
    False Life's big draw is the way it scales. This version doesn't scale. It's 6 (not 8) hp a pop, and a small boost at the start of an encounter does not usually amount to 55+ HP in practice. In my experience, from the DM's point of view, at first level it just leads to a Warlock who thinks he's invincible and gets taken down by goblins, and at later levels is abandoned for a different invocation. For Fiendlocks it's garbage.

    I have lowered the rating of Toughness across all my guides, though, since it doesn't really improve your tactical choices.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Contagion: A solid grouping of debuffs that don't go off until after the three failed saves.
    It might be worth noting that per RAW, it applies immediately. It's only after Dev tweets and sage advice that they've stated it requires 3 failed saves before application.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    True story: It took me forever to figure out why Darkness + Devil's Sight was amazing because it took me forever to figure out that you make the darkness move with you. Might be worth spelling that out in a sentence or two.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by tsuyoshikentsu View Post
    True story: It took me forever to figure out why Darkness + Devil's Sight was amazing because it took me forever to figure out that you make the darkness move with you. Might be worth spelling that out in a sentence or two.
    I mean, the main draw is that you get to attack with advantage while everyone else is at disadvantage to hit you. Moving with you is noce, but it would still be amazing without that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    It might be worth noting that per RAW, it applies immediately. It's only after Dev tweets and sage advice that they've stated it requires 3 failed saves before application.
    I included that language.
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2016-04-26 at 03:32 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    I mean, the main draw is that you get to attack with advantage while everyone else is at disadvantage to hit you. Moving with you is noce, but it would still be amazing without that.
    Less than you think.

    If you drop the darkness on the monsters, then everyone else in the party gets disadvantage on their attack rolls against the bad guys and they can just walk out.

    If you drop the darkness on the party, the spellcasters are completely screwed because they no longer have line of sight and the melee fighters (besides Rogues) don't even benefit because they have to leave the darkness anyway. This works for the ranged folks only if they have the space to pop in and out, but then the monsters can enter the darkness and both sides are screwed again.

    If you drop the darkness somewhere else, it does nothing, obviously.

    Darkness looks great in a vacuum against the tofu, but with a party it's not so great unless you move it around.
    Last edited by tsuyoshikentsu; 2016-04-26 at 03:58 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by tsuyoshikentsu View Post
    snip
    Drop darkness on yourself, away from the party, and you can attack with advantage while everyone else has disadvantage to hit you, with or without moving.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by tsuyoshikentsu View Post
    Less than you think.

    If you drop the darkness on the monsters, then everyone else in the party gets disadvantage on their attack rolls against the bad guys and they can just walk out.

    If you drop the darkness on the party, the spellcasters are completely screwed because they no longer have line of sight and the melee fighters (besides Rogues) don't even benefit because they have to leave the darkness anyway. This works for the ranged folks only if they have the space to pop in and out, but then the monsters can enter the darkness and both sides are screwed again.

    If you drop the darkness somewhere else, it does nothing, obviously.

    Darkness looks great in a vacuum against the tofu, but with a party it's not so great unless you move it around.
    That is a common misconception (that really needs shut down every time it pops up).
    They don't have disadvantage on their attacks. They get disadvantage for attacking while blind, but they also get advantage for attacking a blinded target. It comes out as a wash with neither advantage nor disadvantage.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    That is a common misconception (that really needs shut down every time it pops up).
    They don't have disadvantage on their attacks. They get disadvantage for attacking while blind, but they also get advantage for attacking a blinded target. It comes out as a wash with neither advantage nor disadvantage.
    Although, depending on the DM's interpretation of darkness, they may not know the enemy's location and have to guess (or make listen checks). (Particularly ranged characters far away from the darkness.)
    Last edited by Xetheral; 2016-04-26 at 06:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    ...I feel like this is making my point about how some of us could use help understanding the intricacies of this.
    Last edited by tsuyoshikentsu; 2016-04-26 at 06:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by tsuyoshikentsu View Post
    ...I feel like this is making my point about how some of us could use help understanding the intricacies of this.
    In general, someone with the Blinded status is at disadvantage to hit others, while others have advantage to hit them. Darkness creates an area in which everyone inside is Blinded, and everyone targeting someone within the area is also effectively Blinded vs. that person. If someone attacks you in an area of darkness, she has disadvantage because she is Blinded, but she also has advantage because you are Blinded. Because advantage and disadvantage cancel each other out, it is a normal attack.

    This is a silly RAW oversight, and almost every DM will rule that someone attacking into Darkness will have disadvantage. The RAW reading isn't worth actually discussing save as an oddity because no decent DM will actually rule it by RAW over RAI. At best, it's an interesting mess up that should be erased in errata.

    That said, if you have Devil's Sight, everyone targeting you while you are in a cloud of Darkness is effectively Blinded, while you are not. This means you have advantage targeting them, while they have disadvantage when targeting you. And because you have an excellent ranged spell cantrip, you only need to target yourself, an item you carry, or the square you are in. Moving with you is a bonus, but just dropping Darkness on yourself is great for improving your performance.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    This is a silly RAW oversight, and almost every DM will rule that someone attacking into Darkness will have disadvantage.
    It makes sense to me, since the attack roll is not necessarily how accurate you are but the chance of landing a hit of which accuracy plays a part. You hitting by hearing but he's dodging by hearing. Then flavor of how it landed might be different but the final chance of landing the hit could be similar.
    Last edited by Saggo; 2016-04-26 at 08:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    This is a silly RAW oversight, and almost every DM will rule that someone attacking into Darkness will have disadvantage. The RAW reading isn't worth actually discussing save as an oddity because no decent DM will actually rule it by RAW over RAI. At best, it's an interesting mess up that should be erased in errata.
    The RAW and RAI are the exact same thing. The devs obviously intended being blind to lower one's defense (and for obvious reasons) - they couldn't write in that clause by accident. The odds of a typo of that length appearing in a sequence that actually makes sense within the english language are absurd.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    The RAW and RAI are the exact same thing. The devs obviously intended being blind to lower one's defense (and for obvious reasons) - they couldn't write in that clause by accident. The odds of a typo of that length appearing in a sequence that actually makes sense within the english language are absurd.
    It's as easy as, "A creature who is not also blind has advantage when attacking a blinded creature."

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    It's still very situational but here's an interesting fact about Eyes of the Runekeeper: It says it lets you read all writing, not just writing in other languages. So, it has one advantage over picking up Comprehend Languages as a ritual because your DM may let you use it to break codes.

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    I kind of disagree with your rating with Charger. A bladelock could find that extra damage about as useful as Great Weapon Master. You really don't need to move that far to gain the benefit; at least 10 feet in straight line can end there if need be. Better yet, this could benefit a finesse bladelock who can't benefit from Great Weapon Master.
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Should not Polearm master be rated blue for blade lock? works perfectly both for free bonus attack that scaled nicely with the bonus damage from lvl 12 +CHA to damage
    and is also really nice with quarterstaff + shield combo. :)

    Also ranger MC should be purple or black at least in my opinion, sure you need WIS 13 but WIS is kinda useful for all classes anyways beeing a good save
    and used for perception, extra attack from horde breaker is beautiful for a blade lock and fighting style is nothing to scoff at either. But yes probably
    hard to come up with the stats needed unless you go normal human + point buy or just get pretty nice rolls so see your point with it beeing red. :)

    Also on Paladin MC maybe put a warning that many DM´s would prob not let you be a Paladin with a sold soul. :)
    Last edited by Spacehamster; 2016-04-27 at 04:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    False Life's big draw is the way it scales. This version doesn't scale. It's 6 (not 8) hp a pop, and a small boost at the start of an encounter does not usually amount to 55+ HP in practice.
    Why do you say that it is 6 points? Since it is castable at will, the Warlock can continue to cast until he gets 8 points.

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacehamster View Post
    Also on Paladin MC maybe put a warning that many DM´s would prob not let you be a Paladin with a sold soul. :)
    Why in the world would they not?
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by tsuyoshikentsu View Post
    Why in the world would they not?
    Cause paladins are generally good and people that sell their soul to Cthulu are not?

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    In the description of the rating for Sorcerer you might want to mention the amazing utility of exchanging unused pact magic slots for sorcery points (or sorcerer spell slots via points if you're full). Sure, it all resets on a long rest, but if you get an unexpected short rest you can roll over your unexpended power. Similarly, whenever there is short-term downtime (e.g. waiting for another character to go shopping, waiting for nightfall, waiting for a guard rotation, etc.) you can hoard the otherwise-wasted pact magic slots you get from taking a few short rests in a row.

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacehamster View Post
    Cause paladins are generally good and people that sell their soul to Cthulu are not?
    Paladins in this edition have no alignment restrictions whatsoever and, in fact, could be construed as MORE likely to sell their souls as part of an oath. I could certainly see an LE Paladin doing so for the Fiend pact, an LG one doing it for the Undying Light, a True Neutral one doing it for Undeath, and a Chaotic Neutral one doing it for Great Old One. Fae could be pratically anything.

    The only DMs who would do that are the ones who just really aren't familiar with 5E.
    Last edited by tsuyoshikentsu; 2016-04-27 at 06:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Hi!

    Thanks for your guide, read it quickly.
    Agreed with nearly everything globally.

    Just not sure about Ranger and Barbarian being red.
    Barbarian, sure is a pain with casting =/= rage, but I feel a Bladelock could go around this if built to emphasize use of non-concentration spells. It would be viable mainly for balanced split though (= at least Barbarian lvl 7, best with Barb "main").
    So I'd suggest putting it black only for Bladelocks.

    Ranger could samely be put at purple at least, but for Bladelocks only: Fighting Style, 2 lvl 1 spells and potential extra attack (Hunter) can always find their daily use. And this works with low dip.

    My 2 (very quick unfortunately, not much time right now) cents. :)

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by tsuyoshikentsu View Post
    Paladins in this edition have no alignment restrictions whatsoever and, in fact, could be construed as MORE likely to sell their souls as part of an oath. I could certainly see an LE Paladin doing so for the Fiend pact, an LG one doing it for the Undying Light, a True Neutral one doing it for Undeath, and a Chaotic Neutral one doing it for Great Old One. Fae could be pratically anything.

    The only DMs who would do that are the ones who just really aren't familiar with 5E.
    Well if you read on especially devotion and ancients Paladins they are defo designed to be good aligned, vengence pally sure that one could work and obviously oathbreaker since that one IS evil but more designed as a villain class. :)

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacehamster View Post
    Well if you read on especially devotion and ancients Paladins they are defo designed to be good aligned, vengence pally sure that one could work and obviously oathbreaker since that one IS evil but more designed as a villain class. :)
    Ancient Paladins would get along perfectly well with Fey-pact Warlocks. They're practically Fey Knights in general, adding onto powers which come from the fey is perfectly fine.

    Warlock =/= Evil. Heck, in 3.5 (for example,) you could be a Chaotic Good Warlock, which a Fey-pact would probably sit in quite comfortably, as would an Ancients Paladin, if you're still stuck with the whole "must be this alignment" thing.
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacehamster View Post
    Well if you read on especially devotion and ancients Paladins they are defo designed to be good aligned, vengence pally sure that one could work and obviously oathbreaker since that one IS evil but more designed as a villain class. :)
    It's up to the player to come up with a backstory that does make sense of this multi-class.

    It is not for the DM to pre-emptively rule that no player could possibly come up with a cool story, before he's even heard the story!

    I've been on threads that have this discussion, and there are many, many ideas that will work. Pointing to one idea that you think does not work, and then using that as a reason to disallow all potential stories that would work before you've even heard them, would be very poor DMing indeed!

    Just an easy one off the top of my head, why should a paladin with the Oath of the Ancients be appalled at the idea of making a Fey Pact; a pact with the very beings he has sworn an oath to serve?

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by JumboWheat01 View Post
    Ancient Paladins would get along perfectly well with Fey-pact Warlocks. They're practically Fey Knights in general, adding onto powers which come from the fey is perfectly fine.

    Warlock =/= Evil. Heck, in 3.5 (for example,) you could be a Chaotic Good Warlock, which a Fey-pact would probably sit in quite comfortably, as would an Ancients Paladin, if you're still stuck with the whole "must be this alignment" thing.
    Yeah I wholly agree and would tbh allow most combos if a player had a good story reason for it, more meant some DMs might have trouble accepting it with for example devotion/fiend combo. :)

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Please, guys... Let's just drop the argument about whether a paladin and a warlock can or cannot mesh with each other, ok? This has been argued over several times with no end that satisfies each parties. Just, let it go. Let table variance take care of it. We are all entitled to our own opinions and while I agree that I wouldn't allow a paladin/warlock multiclass (lightly), to someone else that might be of no issue.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2016-04-27 at 08:55 AM.
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    I kind of disagree with your rating with Charger. A bladelock could find that extra damage about as useful as Great Weapon Master. You really don't need to move that far to gain the benefit; at least 10 feet in straight line can end there if need be. Better yet, this could benefit a finesse bladelock who can't benefit from Great Weapon Master.
    The extra attack only comes into play when you take the Dash action. A Warlock doesn't need this because if he can't get close enough to attack in melee, he can use Eldritch Blast. Charger is for people with a great melee attack and poor ranged attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacehamster View Post
    Should not Polearm master be rated blue for blade lock? works perfectly both for free bonus attack that scaled nicely with the bonus damage from lvl 12 +CHA to damage
    and is also really nice with quarterstaff + shield combo. :)
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacehamster View Post
    Also ranger MC should be purple or black at least in my opinion, sure you need WIS 13 but WIS is kinda useful for all classes anyways beeing a good save
    and used for perception, extra attack from horde breaker is beautiful for a blade lock and fighting style is nothing to scoff at either. But yes probably
    hard to come up with the stats needed unless you go normal human + point buy or just get pretty nice rolls so see your point with it beeing red. :)
    I'll think about this. It's super MAD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacehamster View Post
    Also on Paladin MC maybe put a warning that many DM´s would prob not let you be a Paladin with a sold soul. :)
    There's nothing against it in RAW, and they should be discussing any multiclass choices with their DM anyways.

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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    The extra attack only comes into play when you take the Dash action. A Warlock doesn't need this because if he can't get close enough to attack in melee, he can use Eldritch Blast. Charger is for people with a great melee attack and poor ranged attacks.
    Hmm, that's a valid point. Ignore what I said earlier :P
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    Default Re: Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    The extra attack only comes into play when you take the Dash action. A Warlock doesn't need this because if he can't get close enough to attack in melee, he can use Eldritch Blast. Charger is for people with a great melee attack and poor ranged attacks.


    Good point.


    I'll think about this. It's super MAD.
    With point buy and half elf putting +1 in DEX and CON and taking stats as follows 9/15/13/8/13/14 you end up with 16 in primary attack stat and 14 CON and 16 CHA so not too shabby imo. :)

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