Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

[EvilAnagram]

I updated it, including the Ranger and PM suggestions.

[HoodedHero007]

You forgot undying light

[TheTeaMustFlow]

You forgot undying light

Much as I dislike agreeing with this one, any chance of doing the UA Pacts?

[EvilAnagram]

I fully intend to look at the UA pacts, but first I will enjoy lunch and a nice walk on my day off.

Also, pleased leave any animosities, old arguments, and unrelated tangents out of this. I fully expect conversation to get heated at times, but be polite and don't veer wildly off topic.

[tieren]

Thanks for the arcanum ratings.

I'm building a OotA paladin 8/ Fey patron warlock 12, so the 6th level arcanum is basically my capstone.

I wasn't aware there even were EE options for that (guess I may need to buy another book).

I was leaning towards mass suggestion in my review of the PHB options, but I am hearing some DMs are sticklers on the "must make course of action seem reasonable" to the point it has no combat effectiveness. Is this something I am likely to run into?

I also would love some permanent pets like the ghouls, but I don't want ghouls because they don't fit the character. I would prefer fey, there is the conjure fey option but the duration is limited and has danger of turning on you and costing concentration. Is it reasonable to ask the DM to fluff the ghouls into satyrs/dryads or something more fey (maybe even twig blights)?

I am also considering being a master of teleportation (blink, misty step, misty escape, dimension door) (I'll have paladin slots for the lower level ones) arcane gate could fit with that, but other than the bringing more people along I don't think it brings much to the table.

Sorry if this is unfocused but so are my thoughts on the subject. Does anyone have any advice for what I should pick?

[SharkForce]

I wasn't aware there even were EE options for that (guess I may need to buy another book).

the character options are available free of charge on the internet. look up elemental evil player's companion (i think that's what it's called). should be on the WotC website somewhere.

[gfishfunk]

From what I have seen Warlocks actually do in campaigns, this guide is very accurate.

[EvilAnagram]

I wasn't aware there even were EE options for that (guess I may need to buy another book).

As Sharkforce said, the EE player options are on a free pdf released by Wizards online.

I was leaning towards mass suggestion in my review of the PHB options, but I am hearing some DMs are sticklers on the "must make course of action seem reasonable" to the point it has no combat effectiveness. Is this something I am likely to run into?

I mean, plenty of things can be made to seem reasonable. "I saw that guy attack a widow, get him!" could easily stir up a crowd via Mass Suggestion, and once the mob gets rolling it's easier to persuade new people to join it.

I also would love some permanent pets like the ghouls, but I don't want ghouls because they don't fit the character. I would prefer fey, there is the conjure fey option but the duration is limited and has danger of turning on you and costing concentration. Is it reasonable to ask the DM to fluff the ghouls into satyrs/dryads or something more fey (maybe even twig blights)?

Couldn't hurt to ask. Talk it out with your DM.

I am also considering being a master of teleportation (blink, misty step, misty escape, dimension door) (I'll have paladin slots for the lower level ones) arcane gate could fit with that, but other than the bringing more people along I don't think it brings much to the table.

That's really all it's good for. It's a good benefit, but it's clearly not game-changing.

If you want to stick with fey, I think conjuring a fey creature is a perfectly good spell, and if it turns on you that's just more experience for you!

[tieren]

As Sharkforce said, the EE player options are on a free pdf released by Wizards online.


If you want to stick with fey, I think conjuring a fey creature is a perfectly good spell, and if it turns on you that's just more experience for you!

Thanks, I found the pdf.

I like that idea thematically, except there aren't any high CR fey creatures, and summoning mammoths and dinosaurs doesn't fit the theme. I really think they should have put Conjure woodland beings on the expanded fey pact list.

By combat uses of mass suggestion I meant things like "lets put our weapons down and talk this out" or "you guys should really run away at this point before I get really mad".

Investiture of Wind looks really powerful at first, but I'll have levitate at will by that point and knock things around with repelling blast so its mostly for the disadvantage and that seems a little meta-gamey munchkinish reason to take it to me.

[Saggo]

Minor thing, but it seems like you still have a formatting error in your stat block for Strength.

[HoodedHero007]

Much as I dislike agreeing with this one, any chance of doing the UA Pacts?

I'm glad I've built a reputation!

[EvilAnagram]

By combat uses of mass suggestion I meant things like "lets put our weapons down and talk this out" or "you guys should really run away at this point before I get really mad".

I'd say those are perfectly reasonable. That's exactly the kind of thing I use it for.

Investiture of Wind looks really powerful at first, but I'll have levitate at will by that point and knock things around with repelling blast so its mostly for the disadvantage and that seems a little meta-gamey munchkinish reason to take it to me.

Remember that Levitate doesn't allow lateral movement unless you push off at something, and then you're still not controlled. Investiture of Wind allows true flight, plus the disadvantage (which is totally cheesy) and a nice little AoE (which is helpful to Warlocks).

Minor thing, but it seems like you still have a formatting error in your stat block for Strength.

Fixed it, thanks!

[tieren]

Are the EE spells from the pdf considered "legal" for AL play?

[SharkForce]

Are the EE spells from the pdf considered "legal" for AL play?

yes, but not if you also want to use the cantrips from SCAG. you're allowed the PHB plus one other sourcebook per character, no more.

[Spacehamster]

So in theory how good would blade lock with STR build with 2 levels fighter and 1 level tempest cleric as MC be? Reaction damage from tempest cleric that goes nice with fire shield from fiend pact, heavy armor, fighting style, action surge, access to bless, healing and other level 1 cleric goodies at the cost of a feat/ASI.

Seems legit to me if you got the stats to back it up that is.

[Gastronomie]

So in theory how good would blade lock with STR build with 2 levels fighter and 1 level tempest cleric as MC be? Reaction damage from tempest cleric that goes nice with fire shield from fiend pact, heavy armor, fighting style, action surge, access to bless, healing and other level 1 cleric goodies at the cost of a feat/ASI.

Seems legit to me if you got the stats to back it up that is.

If the campaign starts at level 8 or higher it's gonna be pretty darn interesting, but if it starts at level 1~7 it might make your character underwhelming (a problem with a lot of multiclass builds). You also need to justify being both a cleric and warlock at the same time - not that it's difficult (it actually allows you to create interesting backstories), but that it does require some thought.

[Spacehamster]

If the campaign starts at level 8 or higher it's gonna be pretty darn interesting, but if it starts at level 1~7 it might make your character underwhelming (a problem with a lot of multiclass builds). You also need to justify being both a cleric and warlock at the same time - not that it's difficult (it actually allows you to create interesting backstories), but that it does require some thought.

Would start at 1 fighter 5 warlock 20 STR, polearm master, level 3 spells and overall useful stuff and coming levels would all give something useful, 7 action surge, 8 lvl 1 cleric stuff and reaction damage, 9 pact feature, 10 lvl 4 warlock spells, 11 feat/ASI. So feels like it should be pretty fun to level feature wise. :)

[Arial Black]

Dual Wielder: Nope. You only get one pact weapon.

This puzzles me. What has this got to do with TWF?

In TWF you get two attacks with your pact weapon (if you have Thirsting Blade....and you WILL have Thirsting Blade!) and only one bonus attack with your off-hand weapon. Since your second weapon can't benefit from a second attack, the fact that it isn't your pact weapon is irrelevant.

Okay, so at 12th level you won't get to add you Cha mod to the off-hand weapon damage. So what? Neither does any other TWFer, and it doesn't stop them from TWFing! At least the warlock still gets to add hex damage to all his weapon attacks, and TWFing is the best way to maximise hex's benefit.

[MaxWilson]

It's interesting to me that you rate Barbarian/Warlock as low, but Fighter/Warlock as high, apparently on the Rage/Spellcasting anti-synergy. My experience is the opposite: if you happen to roll high stats, Warbearian (Barbarian 2-3, Fiend Bladelock X) is about as much fun as you can have in D&D. You get all the fun parts of Barbarian Smash, plus temp HP on kill and Armor of Agathys + Rage shenanigans. You only get 2-3 rages per day, so you're not a full-time Hulk, but you have a good mix of long rest/short rest abilities and you'll be well prepared for any number of encounters per adventuring day, from 1/day to 20/day.

And you still get to True Polymorph yourself into an Ancient White Dragon when you feel like it, and/or play with Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Spear to blast enemies through your Walls of Fire for d10+5d8+5 per hit, and do all the regular warlock stuff. Compared to a Fighter 1/Warlock, you lose a between 1 and 4 points of AC (depending) which means you're less good against hordes... but hordes are a great time to put up Armor of Agathys V and go Hulk Smash, anyway.

In short, I disagree with the gap between Fighter (Dark Blue) and Barbarian (Red). They should really be the same color.

[Millstone85]

This guide seems to paint my build as a reasonable one and that pleases me.

Which ability would you say a Dex 14, Con 16, Cha 18 GOO-chain-lock should improve first?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

This guide seems to paint my build as a reasonable one and that pleases me.

Which ability would you say a Dex 14, Con 16, Cha 18 GOO-chain-lock should improve first?

Assuming you're doing the standard chainlock thing (that is to say, mostly being a caster), I'd say charisma.

[Millstone85]

Assuming you're doing the standard chainlock thing (that is to say, mostly being a caster), I'd say charisma.

Well, I might have invested more in concentration than is standard. Variant human feat Resilient (Constitution) and most of my spells use it. It makes sense with the character's fluff.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Well, I might have invested more in concentration than is standard. Variant human feat Resilient (Constitution) and most of my spells use it. It makes sense with the character's fluff.

If concentration (rather than other constitution stuff) is what's worrying you, you may want to consider War Caster, as advantage on the check is a lot better than just a +1 to it.

Still, either con or dex would be a perfectly reasonable choice - 18 charisma is enough to be getting on with at a low level. But I think I'd still advise charisma on balance.

Edit: Just realised I've been assuming you are low level based on what you've been saying, but you never actually said it. If you're 8th level or higher, I'd definitely recommend charisma so that your attacks and DCs keep up, but if you actually are low level, it's not a huge worry.

[Millstone85]

If concentration (rather than other constitution stuff) is what's worrying you, you may want to consider War Caster, as advantage on the check is a lot better than just a +1 to it.

Hit points and other Con saves are nice too. And it is more than a +1 now.

Just realised I've been assuming you are low level based on what you've been saying, but you never actually said it. If you're 8th level or higher, I'd definitely recommend charisma so that your attacks and DCs keep up, but if you actually are low level, it's not a huge worry.

5th level but thinking about the 8th level's ability score improvement.

Still, either con or dex would be a perfectly reasonable choice - 18 charisma is enough to be getting on with at a low level. But I think I'd still advise charisma on balance.

Charisma it is then. Thank you.

[Polarthief]

Omg, you did a Warlock guide? Awesome! Still a huge fan of your layout Evil!

I'd like to add my two cp regarding the pacts though, I'd argue that Pact of the Tome should be sky blue as well, given that it can mimic the effects of the other two.

Tome allows you to get the Ritual invocation (which, yes, you made sky blue), but that allows you to summon (albeit weaker) familiars, partially mimicking the Chain pact. Regarding the Blade pact, pick up the Druid cantrip Shillelagh as one of your three (since you can pick 3 of any class's cantrips, even multiple classes!), and it will use Charisma for your weapon instead of Strength or Dexterity. Unless you were planning on using 2h weapons with Blade pact, Shillelagh alone not only covers most of the Blade pact benefits, but is arguably better than it til Level 12 unless you go full Dex or Str (Lifedrinker does Dex/Str + Cha but Shillelagh does +Cha which is probably higher, and doesn't cost an invocation).

I just feel like the versatility of the tome, the fact that Shillelagh exists (and becomes a Warlock cantrip so it uses Cha instead of Wis), and that you can also pick up a familiar makes Tomelock a pretty solid choice, arguably a go-to for any blaster.


Chain, idk if it's just bias, but I don't see why it gets so much praise in comparison to Tome which can mimic it for the most part.

[Spacehamster]

Omg, you did a Warlock guide? Awesome! Still a huge fan of your layout Evil!

I'd like to add my two cp regarding the pacts though, I'd argue that Pact of the Tome should be sky blue as well, given that it can mimic the effects of the other two.

Tome allows you to get the Ritual invocation (which, yes, you made sky blue), but that allows you to summon (albeit weaker) familiars, partially mimicking the Chain pact. Regarding the Blade pact, pick up the Druid cantrip Shillelagh as one of your three (since you can pick 3 of any class's cantrips, even multiple classes!), and it will use Charisma for your weapon instead of Strength or Dexterity. Unless you were planning on using 2h weapons with Blade pact, Shillelagh alone not only covers most of the Blade pact benefits, but is arguably better than it til Level 12 unless you go full Dex or Str (Lifedrinker does Dex/Str + Cha but Shillelagh does +Cha which is probably higher, and doesn't cost an invocation).

I just feel like the versatility of the tome, the fact that Shillelagh exists (and becomes a Warlock cantrip so it uses Cha instead of Wis), and that you can also pick up a familiar makes Tomelock a pretty solid choice, arguably a go-to for any blaster.


Chain, idk if it's just bias, but I don't see why it gets so much praise in comparison to Tome which can mimic it for the most part.

How is the Shillelagh cantrip superior until level 12 when you only get one attack with it while blade gets 2 at level 5? O_o

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I really think the utility of going Fighter 2 to start encounters off with a free cast of Fly or Darkness warrants a mention.

[Spacehamster]

I really think the utility of going Fighter 2 to start encounters off with a free cast of Fly or Darkness warrants a mention.

2 Fighter / 1 Life Cleric /17 Blade lock would be pretty baller. :)

[Arkhios]

How is the Shillelagh cantrip superior until level 12 when you only get one attack with it while blade gets 2 at level 5? O_o

Extra Attack doesn't mix well with the SCAG cantrips: Booming Blade and Green-Flame blade, unless you can attack or cast a spell with a bonus action, so technically Shillelagh (magical weapon!) + either BB/GFB does compete quite nicely with Extra Attack. GFB is strictly better of the two, since it's also based on charisma for the extra damage.

[Spacehamster]

Extra Attack doesn't mix well with the SCAG cantrips: Booming Blade and Green-Flame blade, unless you can attack or cast a spell with a bonus action, so technically Shillelagh (magical weapon!) + either BB/GFB does compete quite nicely with Extra Attack. GFB is strictly better of the two, since it's also based on charisma for the extra damage.

Ah true enough but I would take 3 attacks (PAM + extra attack) over 1 strong attack every day of the week for the bigger chance to land at least some damage each turn to be honest. :)