Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

[EvilAnagram]

Yes, the +14 included all other modifiers.

It is a pretty cool attack. And it also seems to me that a plane shift arcanum would make your party one day away from any location within your own plane.

I guess it really depends on how difficult it is to find a 250 gp fork attuned to a plane.

The fork was probably the biggest factor in my rating. Depending on the DM, it could be an easy write-off or a major quest in and of itself.

[Millstone85]

The fork was probably the biggest factor in my rating. Depending on the DM, it could be an easy write-off or a major quest in and of itself.

I would make it a quest in line with the price of the fork. Something like:
1) Find a humanoid with a hereditary attunement to the desired plane (an elf for the Feywild, an air genasi for the Plane of Air...) and buy some of their blood for 100 gp.
2) Find someone with proficiency in tinker's tools and pay them 75 gp to make a fork.
3) Find someone with proficiency in alchemist's supplies and pay them 75 gp to make a potion.
4) Wait 15 days for your orders to be completed.
5) Bathe the fork in the blood and the potion for 1 hour.
6) The fork is ready to be used with the plane shift spell.

[tieren]

I could sort of see taking it with Pact of the Tome, because then it's CHA-based, but then you have to contrive another way to get a second attack on the Warlock (5 levels of valour bard, maybe?). It seems unwieldy no matter how you do it.

I suppose Warlock 3/Paladin X would a decent staff and board option.

I'm playing a fey knight OotA paladin/fey patron warlock. Its a pretty deep MC 8/12, so I'm picking up extra attack and fighting style and auras from paladin.

When it comes to the warlock side and which pact to take tome wins hands down. Cha based attack stat from shillelagh lets me max my attack and casting stat (Cha) which I wouldn't have been able to accomplish with Str and Cha as a gnome, I can still grab a familiar with the ritual invocation with the book (as well any other ritual(s)). Thirsting blade is mooted because I already have extra attack and life drinker is nothing compared to my smites.

I'm a gnome using a quaterstaff like a lance while I ride around on my find steed medium sized mount. Its fun.

[acidphoenix]

*slight bump*

Do you think you could add the Undying Light patron to the guide?

Also, well done with this- I used this to help a (multiclassed from bard, along with your bard guide) plan out feats and invocations and such for warlock levels.

mostly i did undying light because Night, Warlock of the Undying Light just sounded so silly and was so unfitting of her character that it would obviously emerge a great character (and also for searing flame and the +cha to fire spells but pff)

bump x reminder

[ATHATH]

Does suggesting a rating-revision count as thread-necromancy? If so, I'm sorry.

I'd like to contest your current rating of Create Thrall; it should be much higher. Create Thrall doesn't allow the target to make a save to resist it; it merely requires that your target is incapacitated for long enough for your party's Warlock to get an action off. Nonlethal damage and properly timed nets/Entangles can easily set that condition up. There also appears to be no limit to the number of thralls that you can have. Since quite a few BBEG's and other powerful NPC's are Humanoids, you can accumulate a menagerie of powerful beings that are at your beck and call. Sure, some well-placed Remove Curses can take some of them out, but you can safely keep some decently powerful Wizards around if you:
1. Force them to place a Contingent Plane Shift upon themselves that will teleport them to your private Demiplane if they ever stop being your thralls.
2. Keep their Spellbooks on your person at all times, and guard them whenever they have to use them.
3. Ensure that your pet Wizards never keep Plane Shift prepared.

[SharkForce]

Does suggesting a rating-revision count as thread-necromancy? If so, I'm sorry.

I'd like to contest your current rating of Create Thrall; it should be much higher. Create Thrall doesn't allow the target to make a save to resist it; it merely requires that your target is incapacitated for long enough for your party's Warlock to get an action off. Nonlethal damage and properly timed nets/Entangles can easily set that condition up. There also appears to be no limit to the number of thralls that you can have. Since quite a few BBEG's and other powerful NPC's are Humanoids, you can accumulate a menagerie of powerful beings that are at your beck and call. Sure, some well-placed Remove Curses can take some of them out, but you can safely keep some decently powerful Wizards around if you:
1. Force them to place a Contingent Plane Shift upon themselves that will teleport them to your private Demiplane if they ever stop being your thralls.
2. Keep their Spellbooks on your person at all times, and guard them whenever they have to use them.
3. Ensure that your pet Wizards never keep Plane Shift prepared.

- incapacitated is a specific status. nets and entangle don't inflict it.
- there is actually a very apparent limit on the number of thralls you can have. the duration ends if you use it again, which means that limit is one.
- create thrall doesn't let you force anyone to do anything. it charms them (which gives you advantage on checks like diplomacy and intimidate, and prevents them from attacking you), and gives you the ability to communicate with them anywhere on the same plane. that is all. despite the name, create thrall does not in fact allow you to order anyone to do anything.

it is a terrible ability, and it is properly rated as a terrible ability.

[ATHATH]

- incapacitated is a specific status. nets and entangle don't inflict it.
- there is actually a very apparent limit on the number of thralls you can have. the duration ends if you use it again, which means that limit is one.
- create thrall doesn't let you force anyone to do anything. it charms them (which gives you advantage on checks like diplomacy and intimidate, and prevents them from attacking you), and gives you the ability to communicate with them anywhere on the same plane. that is all. despite the name, create thrall does not in fact allow you to order anyone to do anything.

it is a terrible ability, and it is properly rated as a terrible ability.

Oh. Never mind, then.

By the way, there's another Warlock patron that you didn't mention from one of the UA's. It's from the modern one, and it's called the Ghost in the Machine.

Would it be too much trouble to add a list of Ritual spells that Warlocks can cast with the upgraded Book of Shadows to the guide?

[SharkForce]

Oh. Never mind, then.

By the way, there's another Warlock patron that you didn't mention from one of the UA's. It's from the modern one, and it's called the Ghost in the Machine.

Would it be too much trouble to add a list of Ritual spells that Warlocks can cast with the upgraded Book of Shadows to the guide?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-ritual-spells

there are several guides on the net for ritual spells. the above is simply a list, but should you want to know more, just look up "D&D 5e ritual guide" and you'll find something.

[Belac93]

By the way, there's another Warlock patron that you didn't mention from one of the UA's. It's from the modern one, and it's called the Ghost in the Machine.

Also, the Seeker from this month's UA.

[ATHATH]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-ritual-spells

there are several guides on the net for ritual spells. the above is simply a list, but should you want to know more, just look up "D&D 5e ritual guide" and you'll find something.

Actually, most of the lists are bare-bones and only include the rituals in the PHB. An updated one would be useful.

[borg286]

Please make a section for warlocks wanting to do darkness + devil's sight tactic. Please note how hit chances from ranges and melee attacks from allies are unaffected by your darkness. Opportunity attacks fail for both sides. This encourages you to take sentinel to keep put. Discuss ways of conveying the location of foes you see to your allies. Darkness also flat out stops 90% of targeted spells. This is both good and bad.

[Tikkun]

It appears to me--noob to 5e, that I am--that there is a significant amount of difficulty in setting out "rules" for the use of the Darkness spell and the Devil's Sight incantation. It appears that the only consensus can be that it is left up to each individual DM to set the parameters of the effectiveness and application of the spell.

In reading the posts on GitP, Enworld and Reddit sub forums, one can clearly see no real agreement. Instead there seems to be a varying standard from the snippets of PHB, errata and Sage Advice comments that, more often than not, obfuscates any real answer. In the final analysis it appears to be left up to the DM with a host of "educated" commentary offering no real solution. If you can not agree on exactly what the Darkness spell "does", you can not really determine all the other factors.

I would be most interested in being shown a solution to that question. Additionally, I have read that some people employ the darkness/devil's sight combination alongside Pact of the Blade--I am interested in how it is used in terms of both feats taken and manner/method of how it is actually employed on the battlefield ( in truth, I have been wrestling with either a fighter1-4/warlock 16-19 or warlock 16/sorcerer 4 combination for a few weeks now).

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

[Sabeta]

Darkness
Magical darkness spreads from a point you choose within range to fill a 15-foot-radius sphere for the duration. The darkness spreads around corners. A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.

Vision
A given area might be lightly or heavily obscured. In a Lightly Obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.
A Heavily Obscured area - such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage - blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition.
Errata: a heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.

Light
Bright Light lets most creatures see normally. Even gloomy days provide bright light, as do torches, lanterns, fires, and other sources of Illumination within a specific radius
Dim Light, also called shadows creates a lightly obscured area. An area of dim light is usually a boundary between a source of light and surrounding darkness. The soft light of twilight and dawn also count as dim light. A bright full moon might bathe the land in dim light.
Darkness creates a heavily obscured area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights), in the confines of an unlit dungeon, or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness.

Blinded
A blinded creature can't see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature's attack rolls have disadvantage.


So then, this establishes a few things. The first, is that Darkness creates an area of Heavy Obscurement / Darkness. Attempting to see inside the darkness without the Devil's Sight Invocation or another source of Magical vision is impossible, and therefore any attempts to hit creatures inside the Darkness will have disadvantage. If you have True Sight then you'll have advantage on everyone inside, but any allies who don't will be disadvantaged. Your allies can still attack, and still be attacked, but everyone without some form of True Sight will have disadvantage doing so. Let's combine this with Hiding.

Hiding
You can't hide from a creature that can see you (Errata: The question isn't whether a creature can see you when you're hiding. The question is whether it can see you clearly.), and if you make a loud noise you give away your position. An invisible creature can't be seen, so it can always try to hide.

Since you automatically fail any ability checks that rely on sight the creature is by all means invisible to you, and can therefore easily make attempts to hide; however this gets compared with your Passive Perception. Since there's Darkness in the way, you have disadvantage on Passive Perception, which takes a -5 penalty. You still have a chance of finding a hidden creature, but it's much harder. Obviously, someone with Devil's Sight will easily see the hiding creature, and can therefore call out its location to any allies also in the darkness. Alternatively, you can roll Perception in order to try and find the creature outside of passive; since you can't see you still have Disadvantage, but by picking up on a creature's smell, heavy breathing, or perhaps even gut intuition you'll still have a chance to find it.

In fact, if you're the only one who can see in Darkness, then it's up to you to optimize your party more than the enemy can in the same situation. Knocking an enemy prone will grant melee attackers advantage, and that negates the Disadvantage they normally had. (While not hurting your ranged attackers any more than they already were) Having an ally Paladin or Cleric cast Bless will help mitigate the Disadvantage of Darkness, and there are other ways to gain Advantage as a Ranged attacker.

tldr: I couldn't find any inconsistencies with the way Darkness and Vision works. The rules are fairly scattered throughout the PHB and required two Erratas to convey with 100% clarity, but it seems fairly clear what you can and can't do under the influence of Heavy Obscurement.

[Godshoe]

Agonizing Blast: Eldritch Blast hits harder, and since it's on a hit, it can be up to +20 damage in a single turn.

+20 sounds cool, but could you please explain how to get this?

[CaptAl]

+20 sounds cool, but could you please explain how to get this?

20 Cha nets you a +5 to damage. Level 17 as a caster with Eldritch blast nets you 4 attacks. So, 4(d10+5) if you hit with all 4 blasts with agonizing blast invocation.

[Draco4472]

Having read this guide, I am now considering having my Storm Sorcerer I've been playing recently sell his soul to a Balor. What could possibly go wrong?

[Nertak]

Great guide. Thanks for taking the time to make it.

One thing I noticed is for 3rd level spells for remove curse you say "Usually, I let the Druid or Cleric prepare this the day after someone gets curse, then use it. In the absence of this option, it's a pretty good option." Druids cannot learn Remove Curse. At least not through normal means.

[EvilAnagram]

Great guide. Thanks for taking the time to make it.

One thing I noticed is for 3rd level spells for remove curse you say "Usually, I let the Druid or Cleric prepare this the day after someone gets curse, then use it. In the absence of this option, it's a pretty good option." Druids cannot learn Remove Curse. At least not through normal means.

You are correct. Changed it.

[tieren]

With the errata clarifying you can take cantrips from multiple lists with the pact of the tome boon, I would appreciate a more detailed analysis of the available cantrips across the game.

[Nertak]

Edit: I found my mistake so nm. Is there a way I can delete this post?

[EvilAnagram]

With the errata clarifying you can take cantrips from multiple lists with the pact of the tome boon, I would appreciate a more detailed analysis of the available cantrips across the game.

I was not aware of this errata. IT doesn't actually alter my interpretation, but I suppose I'll rate the game's cantrips at some point over the next week.

[Citan]

I was not aware of this errata. IT doesn't actually alter my interpretation, but I suppose I'll rate the game's cantrips at some point over the next week.

Would you accept suggestions? ;)

Spoiler: Potentially useful cantrips

Show

Acid Splash, Firebolt, Poison Spray: usually not a good choice because of damage types, EB is better. Only for fluff or if you really want a cantrip that targets a particular save / has a particular damage type for whatever reason.

Ray of Frost, Chill Touch, Vicious Mockery, Frostbite: any of those can be a decent choice to complement EB is you want to get "soft condition" cantrips to help allies.

Thunderclap: would have been great with a push or prone effect. As is, its requirements make it improper for most Warlocks (except a Bladelock built as a tank maybe).

Shocking Grasp: good choice in any situation because of the disengage effect in melee. Great to have, unless you have access to SCAG cantrips AND a decent attack stat.

Produce Flame: true benefit of this is that you can use it either as a poorsman Light or a poorsman Firebolt. Still, there are probably too many better cantrips, unless you are an Undying Light Warlock.

Sacred Flame: main benefit is radiant damage, but force is even less often resisted. Secondary is targeting DEX, but is it enough? Unless you are an Undying Light Warlock, you can do without it.

Create Bonfire: same, or maybe worse because it uses your concentration and a Warlock usually has a good spell in concentration already. Could make do for some builds that blow slots on non-concentration though, to apply a bit of terrain control.

Magic Stone: strictly worse than using EB.

Thorn Whip: its damage will be lesser than EB, that's for sure. Main reason to use it would be to get a complement to Repelling Blast, so you can pull or push enemies as required.
Can be a pretty decent choice as long as you get some ideas on how to put it to good use. ;)

Shillelagh: obviously a nice one, allows you to use your CHA instead of STR, but limits to quarterstaff. But since quarterstaffs can be focus (AFAIK), not so bad heh? ;)

Mage Hand, Mold Earth, Shape Water, Gust, Minor Illusion, Guidance: all great utility cantrips with pleny of uses.

My personal "default" choices:
Shillelagh or Shocking Grasp (to cover melee option, depending on SCAG cantrips availability).
Thorn Whip (because I love it).
Mold Earth or Minor Illusion (depending on setting and party, both are great).

[MeeposFire]

I always find the love for shillelagh to be puzzling. Without a means to get more damage it does not keep up naturally. In order to make it keep up you have to get extra attack or use an additional cantrip to deal that extra damage. I personally think 2 catnrips is a bit much of an investment for something you do not plan on using often. I would think for the vast majority of warlocks you get more out of picking something like shocking grasp and using the other cantrip choice for something with some utility.

Using your spell casting stat is fine and all but even with the SCAG cantrips a dagger with a warlocks typical dex score is more than fine. You are not going to notice the damage difference and the accuracy eventually match or be very close.

[bardo]

I always find the love for shillelagh to be puzzling.

Don't forget the Shillelagh stick counts as a magical weapon for bypassing resistances. It's a good plan B.

Bardo.

[MeeposFire]

Don't forget the Shillelagh stick counts as a magical weapon for bypassing resistances. It's a good plan B.

Bardo.

That does not change much. The difference between magic and non magic damage for that warlock is on average 4.5 damage it is something though I do not think it is worth the cost of two cantrips. You could have just taken shocking grasp (which lets you get out of melee), taken crossbow expert and just use EB in melee, or found a +1 dagger (which is relatively common as treasure goes).

It is an expensive plan B for something that you believe is to be rare. Consider as you level the damage that resistance applies to becomes smaller and smaller and the chances of you not having a magical weapon also gets smaller and smaller. If this is trully an emergency plan shocking grasp is probably enough or just booming blade.

You are also discounting the fact that using that spell also uses your bonus action that round and prevents you from using a non-cantrip that round.

[Rysto]

You are also discounting the fact that using that spell also uses your bonus action that round and prevents you from using a non-cantrip that round.

Considering that cantrip is likely going to be BB/GFB anyway, I'm not sure that I see the issue.

[MeeposFire]

Considering that cantrip is likely going to be BB/GFB anyway, I'm not sure that I see the issue.

More often than not it won't be but it does mean he is committed. The big one is wasting a cantrip on what you are planning to be a corner case and only getting a slight boost at best from it.

[SharkForce]

cantrips are not really as high-value on a tome-lock as they might otherwise be. you already get your own cantrips from being a warlock, then you get to add 3 more on top of that, and if others in your party already have cantrips of their own that often narrows down the pool of what you're likely to want even further.

so honestly, investing a couple of cantrips for emergency melee situations... it's not wonderful, but it isn't that bad either. especially if you'd rather invest in con than boost dex more... as a counter-example to your crossbow expert feat, you could also pick up the moderately armoured feat, and maybe even warcaster (you probably sort of wanted warcaster anyways, and moderately armoured just bumps the value even higher). now your AC is better than it would have been if you had put those 2 ASIs into dex, you still got a +1 to a physical attribute, and your opportunity attacks can be pretty danged nice too.

[MeeposFire]

cantrips are not really as high-value on a tome-lock as they might otherwise be. you already get your own cantrips from being a warlock, then you get to add 3 more on top of that, and if others in your party already have cantrips of their own that often narrows down the pool of what you're likely to want even further.

so honestly, investing a couple of cantrips for emergency melee situations... it's not wonderful, but it isn't that bad either. especially if you'd rather invest in con than boost dex more... as a counter-example to your crossbow expert feat, you could also pick up the moderately armoured feat, and maybe even warcaster (you probably sort of wanted warcaster anyways, and moderately armoured just bumps the value even higher). now your AC is better than it would have been if you had put those 2 ASIs into dex, you still got a +1 to a physical attribute, and your opportunity attacks can be pretty danged nice too.

Sounds like you are saying it is OK not great. I can honestly live with that.

[Citan]

That does not change much. The difference between magic and non magic damage for that warlock is on average 4.5 damage it is something though I do not think it is worth the cost of two cantrips. You could have just taken shocking grasp (which lets you get out of melee), taken crossbow expert and just use EB in melee, or found a +1 dagger (which is relatively common as treasure goes).

It is an expensive plan B for something that you believe is to be rare. Consider as you level the damage that resistance applies to becomes smaller and smaller and the chances of you not having a magical weapon also gets smaller and smaller. If this is trully an emergency plan shocking grasp is probably enough or just booming blade.

You are also discounting the fact that using that spell also uses your bonus action that round and prevents you from using a non-cantrip that round.

For the action cost, you could do the same as with Guidance with a lenient DM (reactivate it every time).
But I agree with you, I usually take Shocking Grasp. Or at least that was my goto plan before SCAG for any caster.

But you seem to forget that Booming Blade, since requiring a weapon attack, will normally uses your STR/DEX modifier. And that's the thing: a caster will usually hold a focus and nothing else (because he needs hand free for somatic components, unless I really didn't understand something basic since the beginnings of 5e XD).

Shocking Grasp was good for those, perfect even. And the fact it prevents any bonus action attack because it's a spell attack was not important, since casters are not good good fighters.

Now, if you want to use Booming Blade or GreenFlame Blade because you build a gish of any kind...
a) you wield a "normal" weapon in your main hand and a focus in the other. > Now you have to micromanage your weapon with the free (un)sheathe interaction between turns.
Granted, a Warlock has few slots. But EB has somatic components. So you still get the problem, unless you grab Warcaster.
It's not a big problem per se as long as you are smart about it, but will still be annoying in some occasions.
b) you wield only a normal weapon in your main hand, and no focus. Problem solved for EB blasting, not for spells.
And whatever happens, you still want to max your attack stat because if you don't land a hit, it's useless.
And whatever happens, if you use Booming Blade or GFB, you get no bonus action attack.
And Shocking Grasp does not allow you to profit from magical weapons (although IIRC there are very few magical quarterstaffs?).

Before, Shillelagh was already good for those who wanted to get a good melee option without having to bump attack stat but keep options opened (dual-wielding with related feat, or Polearm Master for bonus action + Sentinel), with added benefit of being "just magical damage".
Now it's even better because you get extra damage and rider.

Agreed though that for most casters that have access to it, Shillelagh is lesser than Shocking Grasp unless you aim for at least 3 weapon attacks per turn or use one of those SCAG cantrips.