OOTS #1034 - The Discussion Thread

[Quibblicious]

You don't need to cite evidence for things you can plainly see

The sky is blue. How do I know? I looked up

Don't knock skepticism. Unless you're skeptical of skepticism.

Q

[8BitNinja]

D&D3.5 showed us that we are not limited to whole numbers.

Arise, ye of several classes, and claim your half levels!

Q, N.76 level Bard.

Good thing I'm pure pally

[GM_3826]

Roy's been there and done that...

Q

Roy's been there and done that while wearing a Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity. So technically he WAS a girl.

Basically, every girl in this comic (besides maybe a few elves) has an hourglass figure for a reason.

[GalenDev]

Am I the only one who really enjoys every little bit of screentime Lien gets? O-chul's badass incarnate, sure, but Lien just has this... vibe about her that I really enjoy seeing. She's an unusually chill Paladin with a really unique specialty and set of weapons. She's also rather tactical.

Call me crazy, but when Belkar gets shuffled out of the Order (by pre-ordained death), I'd love it if Lien were his replacement. I feel like she's quirky enough to fit in.

[Liquor Box]

Hm, even if they dont have paladin mounts, why not purchase a mount before travelling through the mountains (even detouring to find a stable would be more practical than walking). Given the terrain type and their armour, won't they be travelling at a snail pace without mounts.

Aren't they approaching a pole? If so dogs and sled would be more suitable than horses.

[Shining Wrath]

You don't need to cite evidence for things you can plainly see

The sky is blue. How do I know? I looked up

Unless you're a member of a culture that doesn't have a word for blue, and therefore have trouble perceiving it.

The Guardian, but I've seen it elsewherel

[Themrys]

Or he's a transgender man.

That's got to be the most creative excuse for defaulting to male that I have ever seen.

The chance that a person of unknown sex is female is roughly 50%. The chance that a person of unknown sex belongs to the female sex but identifies with the male gender role (and does not just reject the female gender role) is ... I don't know, 1% or what.


@Shining Wrath: The sky still looks blue to those people. They cannot name the colour, and may not pay much attention to how it differs from a blueish green, or what, but they still perceive it the same. (unless science has now found that there are actually not only people who are red-green blind, but that there is also a thing like blue-blindness)

[martianmister]

That's got to be the most creative excuse for defaulting to male that I have ever seen.

Panel 21

[Liquor Box]

That's got to be the most creative excuse for defaulting to male that I have ever seen.

The chance that a person of unknown sex is female is roughly 50%. The chance that a person of unknown sex belongs to the female sex but identifies with the male gender role (and does not just reject the female gender role) is ... I don't know, 1% or what.

Those percentages assume we know nothing about the person though. Roughly 50% of the total population is female. But (in the real world) only a relatively small percentage of soldiers are female, but a relatively large percentage of pre-school teachers are. So if we have some clues about the characteristics of the rider it is not unreasonable to default to a gender.

[Dilvish]

I don't understand why anyone character would use a crossbow except when they don't have proficiency for bows. Once you get multiple attacks per round which can be used with long or short bows then crossbows, other than the repeating type, are pretty much a waste of time since they can only fire at best once per round. I suppose the Sapphire guard aren't used to dealing with aerial attackers that they can't deal with using melee attacks. Especially likely since only one of them seems to even have a ranged weapon.

Lien may have a crossbow because she is an aquatic paladin. While the 3.5 DMG has all types of bows working equally well underwater, I remember from somewhere that crossbows were the better ranged weapon underwater (another game system?). Maybe I'm just thinking of spear guns.

I assumed Lien had a spear gun or a harpoon before the paladins mentioned crossbow bolts.

[GM_3826]

Those percentages assume we know nothing about the person though. Roughly 50% of the total population is female. But (in the real world) only a relatively small percentage of soldiers are female, but a relatively large percentage of pre-school teachers are. So if we have some clues about the characteristics of the rider it is not unreasonable to default to a gender.

That brings us back to our original point, though, namely the fact that at this point the only real clue we have is the fact that said character has a feminine figure. In real life, soldiers are most commonly male, but there's only one female in OOTS that has taken up a non-combat role. In other words, it is much more reasonable in this situation to default to female.

[GreatWyrmGold]

We need the proof that 1+1=2.

By the definition of 2, 1+1=2. QED

Call me crazy, but when Belkar gets shuffled out of the Order (by pre-ordained death), I'd love it if Lien were his replacement. I feel like she's quirky enough to fit in.

She doesn't cause as many dramatic problems, though. Lien's no Miko.

...there's only one female in OOTS that has taken up a non-combat role.

Bandana and a good portion of her crew, Celia, the Empress of Blood, Julia Greenhilt, Sara Greenhilt, possibly Inkyrius and/or Aardinarius depending on their genders and if they use their respective arts for combat...and that's just off the top of my head.
OotS has a lot of characcters, male and female. Watch those generalizations.

(And no, I'm not picking nits. You claimed that the cast of OotS is so heavily armed that only one woman wasn't a warrior of some kind.)

[Liquor Box]

That brings us back to our original point, though, namely the fact that at this point the only real clue we have is the fact that said character has a feminine figure. In real life, soldiers are most commonly male, but there's only one female in OOTS that has taken up a non-combat role. In other words, it is much more reasonable in this situation to default to female.

I agree. I was using soldiers as a (real life) example, nothing more. I understand that it is widely accepted that the rider is female based on the drawing, although personally I cannot see anything about her that shows that. I do think what is drawn on the end of her legs looks more like footwear than fee though.

[8BitNinja]

That's got to be the most creative excuse for defaulting to male that I have ever seen.

In the English language, if a gender of a noun is unknown, you default to male. This is generally used when talking about a group of people, or an occupation.

For example:

The janitor cleans the floors.

He cleans the floors

[JoeyTheNeko]

once again. o-chul shows he has the heart and soul of a true paladin.

[KorvinStarmast]

Rich is a story-teller, not a DM. It will do exactly as much damage as is necessary for the story.

A) I am aware of how Rich does this comic and B) newsflash, a lot of the best DMs are also very good story tellers.

Since the normal speculation was running amok (boobs, for example) I thought I'd toss in a bit of it.
What's the problem you have with that?
GalenDev

Am I the only one who really enjoys every little bit of screentime Lien gets? O-chul's badass incarnate, sure, but Lien just has this... vibe about her that I really enjoy seeing. She's an unusually chill Paladin with a really unique specialty and set of weapons. She's also rather tactical.

Call me crazy, but when Belkar gets shuffled out of the Order (by pre-ordained death), I'd love it if Lien were his replacement. I feel like she's quirky enough to fit in.

That would be cool, and I get the same "rule of cool" vibe from Lien. Her coolness owes a debt, I think, to how uncool Miko was.

[8BitNinja]

Rich is a story-teller, not a DM. It will do exactly as much damage as is necessary for the story.

Why not both?

[Quibblicious]

Roy's been there and done that while wearing a Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity. So technically he WAS a girl.

Basically, every girl in this comic (besides maybe a few elves) has an hourglass figure for a reason.

I'm just saying that in a fantasy world, transgender is not surgical -- it's genetic. You can't get more transgender than that.

Q

[KillingAScarab]

In the English language, if a gender of a noun is unknown, you default to male. This is generally used when talking about a group of people, or an occupation.

For example:

The janitor cleans the floors.

He cleans the floors

Not a rule I'm familiar with, nor is it one I am going to follow. For now, I'm comfortable to refer to the character as the yrthak rider or with gender neutral pronouns. The latter only requires it or they. The former is sufficiently precise until additional yrthak riders appear, even if it doesn't fit into a Beatles song as well as I would like.

[jere7my]

I agree. I was using soldiers as a (real life) example, nothing more. I understand that it is widely accepted that the rider is female based on the drawing, although personally I cannot see anything about her that shows that.

Panel 5, there is a bump occluding her upper right arm that is either a boob or an unfortunately placed goiter.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1034.html

[GM_3826]

Bandana and a good portion of her crew, Celia, the Empress of Blood, Julia Greenhilt, Sara Greenhilt, possibly Inkyrius and/or Aardinarius depending on their genders and if they use their respective arts for combat...and that's just off the top of my head.
OotS has a lot of characcters, male and female. Watch those generalizations.

(And no, I'm not picking nits. You claimed that the cast of OotS is so heavily armed that only one woman wasn't a warrior of some kind.)

It was mostly for the sake of a point. It's true that not every woman in OOTS is effective in combat, but that was besides the point I was making; that soldier is a job that is much more common for women in OOTS than elsewhere,

Since you kind of roped me into this argument, I am going to rebut, though:

Bandana and a good portion of her crew are pirates. It comes with the job.

The Empress of Blood is a dragon. (An obese dragon who likely is much weaker than most dragons, but still.)

Julia Greenhilt is a wizard-in-training, so while they're not effective in combat yet they might be one day.

Sara Greenhilt is dead and has been for a long time.

And, as you pointed out, we cannot be sure that Inkyrius and Aardinarius are even female.

[warmachine]

They're paladins, not tacticians [which is why they're bad at team diversity and dealing with flying creatures].

I think that should be standard wisdom about why paladins make stupid mistakes, especially those in elite military divisions: they're paladins.

[Liquor Box]

It was mostly for the sake of a point. It's true that not every woman in OOTS is effective in combat, but that was besides the point I was making; that soldier is a job that is much more common for women in OOTS than elsewhere,

Since you kind of roped me into this argument, I am going to rebut, though:

Bandana and a good portion of her crew are pirates. It comes with the job.

The Empress of Blood is a dragon. (An obese dragon who likely is much weaker than most dragons, but still.)

Julia Greenhilt is a wizard-in-training, so while they're not effective in combat yet they might be one day.

Sara Greenhilt is dead and has been for a long time.

And, as you pointed out, we cannot be sure that Inkyrius and Aardinarius are even female.

There are lots. Not just Celia, but all the other Dryads from that dungeon. The well dressed ladies in the following strip:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0227.html

Of course most more prominent named charactors would generally have class levels in a comic like OOTS. And any character with class levels will be able to fight.

To have a look at more soldier like mooks, you can look at the CPPD or the Azure City army (or indeed the goblin army):
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html

Anyway, that's all an aside. As alreayd noted, I just raised soldiers as a real world example where one gender outrepresents the other - I didn't mean to apply it to the rider because she is probably not actually a soldier anyway.

[Shining Wrath]

That's got to be the most creative excuse for defaulting to male that I have ever seen.

The chance that a person of unknown sex is female is roughly 50%. The chance that a person of unknown sex belongs to the female sex but identifies with the male gender role (and does not just reject the female gender role) is ... I don't know, 1% or what.


@Shining Wrath: The sky still looks blue to those people. They cannot name the colour, and may not pay much attention to how it differs from a blueish green, or what, but they still perceive it the same. (unless science has now found that there are actually not only people who are red-green blind, but that there is also a thing like blue-blindness)

It must be my aging eyes, but I can't see any boobs on that rider, transgender or otherwise.

If you read the article, you find that the people without a word for blue have great difficulty in distinguishing a blue square among a set of green ones, but can readily distinguish shades of green. A person in a culture without a word for blue thinks of the sky probably as green. This entire line of inquiry was kicked off by Homer's use of the phrase "wine dark sea" - ever see a wine the color of the Aegean? And not "this one wine", but generic wine.

[KorvinStarmast]

It must be my aging eyes, but I can't see any boobs on that rider, transgender or otherwise.

If you read the article, you find that the people without a word for blue have great difficulty in distinguishing a blue square among a set of green ones, but can readily distinguish shades of green. A person in a culture without a word for blue thinks of the sky probably as green. This entire line of inquiry was kicked off by Homer's use of the phrase "wine dark sea" - ever see a wine the color of the Aegean? And not "this one wine", but generic wine.

... high dust content in the atmosphere gives a dark red sunset, and its reflection in a dark sea can give a ''color and texture very close to that of mavrodaphne.'' He recalled seeing this phenomenon off Maine recently when the sky carried dust from the far away eruption of Mount St. Helens. And dusty skies, he added, indicate slow- moving winds and, therefore, stable weather conditions.

I've seen the sea turn that color near sunset in the Mediterranean. It's not that common, but it's neat when you see it. So's the green flash.

[Bobblit]

You're not shooting. In lieu of a plan, you should keep shouting.

I find this sentence extremely hilarious, and I'm not sure why.

[8BitNinja]

Not a rule I'm familiar with, nor is it one I am going to follow. For now, I'm comfortable to refer to the character as the yrthak rider or with gender neutral pronouns. The latter only requires it or they. The former is sufficiently precise until additional yrthak riders appear, even if it doesn't fit into a Beatles song as well as I would like.

It implies an inanimate object

They implies a plural

[jere7my]

It implies an inanimate object

They implies a plural

Singular they has been in use since the 14th century. Its acceptability depends entirely on your audience and which style guide you use.

[8BitNinja]

Singular they has been in use since the 14th century. Its acceptability depends entirely on your audience and which style guide you use.

So this:
"In order to exit the parking garage, the driver must have the ticket that he received upon entry. He must then insert the card into the slot, whereupon the amount due will be displayed."

Works just as well as this?:
"In order to exit the parking garage, the driver must have the ticket that they received upon entry. They must then insert the card into the slot, whereupon the amount due will be displayed."

This seems wrong, since the oldest and most used form of they is "used to refer to two or more people or things previously mentioned or easily identified." (Mirriam-Webster)

Also, on a side note, I never knew I would get int a grammar argument on a forum thread about a D&D webcomic

[Keltest]

So this:
"In order to exit the parking garage, the driver must have the ticket that he received upon entry. He must then insert the card into the slot, whereupon the amount due will be displayed."

Works just as well as this?:
"In order to exit the parking garage, the driver must have the ticket that they received upon entry. They must then insert the card into the slot, whereupon the amount due will be displayed."

This seems wrong, since the oldest and most used form of they is "used to refer to two or more people or things previously mentioned or easily identified." (Mirriam-Webster)

Also, on a side note, I never knew I would get int a grammar argument on a forum thread about a D&D webcomic

yes, it does work just as well.