Class and Level Geekery XIV - We are the Geek Pantheon

[b_jonas]

Since Tarquin's axe Soul Muncher gets a separate headword entry, should Roy's legacy weapon sword also have one?

[Peelee]

Since Tarquin's axe Soul Muncher gets a separate headword entry, should Roy's legacy weapon sword also have one?

I'd say no. Soul Muncher is an intelligent weapon; Roy's sword is not.

[illyahr]

Beast Heart Adept sounds like a pretty good fit for Oona. It allows everything we've seen and the Giant helped write the book it was from.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Beast Heart Adept sounds like a pretty good fit for Oona. It allows everything we've seen and the Giant helped write the book it was from.

The main reason I believe its not being included (besides the fact Oona has not been present long enough to warrant her own entry) is because while Beast Heart Adept does explain what we've seen, it does not explain them definitively. In other words, its possible to explain what we've seen in other ways.

[UrielAwakened]

I'd say no. Soul Muncher is an intelligent weapon; Roy's sword is not.

How do we know that?

[Jasdoif]

I'd say no. Soul Muncher is an intelligent weapon; Roy's sword is not.

How do we know that?

That Soul Muncher is an intelligent weapon? One of the bonus comics in Blood Runs in the Family (which incidentally is where the name "Soul Muncher" is revealed by Soul Muncher itself).

That Roy's sword is not? It hasn't done anything to suggest intelligence. I considered the remote possibility that Roy is just a puppet and the Greenhilt sword is controlling him; but that would make the sword being broken between the first battle against Xykon and the trial in Azure City confusing, to say nothing of Roy's time in the afterlife.

[b_jonas]

In the latest strip #1039, Redcloak casts a spell called "Fortunate Fate". Do you have information about this spell, like what source book it comes from and what does? (Update: thank you for your answer, Quild.) Should it be mentioned in Redcloak's character sheet in this thread?

[Quild]

Fortunate Fate
(Spell Compendium, p. 99)

Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Cleric 7,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 10 minutes/level or until discharged
Saving Throw: None (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)



A golden aura spreads out from your fingertips, suffusing your ally with a golden glow that brightens, then fades into her skin.

You surround the subject with an aura that immediately heals the creature if it is subjected to an effect that would kill it (reduce its hit points to -10 or below). When this event occurs, the fortunate fate spell intervenes by immediately triggering a heal spell upon the target. If the effect is one that causes harm in a way that a heal spell can repair (disease, hit point damage, ability damage, or poison), the target does not actually die, saved by the heal. If the effect is one that heal cannot countermand (such as ability drain, old age, negative levels, disintegration, ability drain, or death effects), the fortunate fate spell cannot prevent the creature's death.

Also appears in
1.Magic of Faerûn

[Ephemera]

In the latest strip #1039, Redcloak casts a spell called "Fortunate Fate". Do you have information about this spell, like what source book it comes from and what does? (Update: thank you for your answer, Quild.) Should it be mentioned in Redcloak's character sheet in this thread?

To answer the rest of this, probably no need--we already know that the spell compendium is in use, and can therefore assume that any OOTS clerics have access to any cleric spells listed therein...

My apologies if this was obvious to everyone from the previous reply.

[Jasdoif]

To answer the rest of this, probably no need--we already know that the spell compendium is in use, and can therefore assume that any OOTS clerics have access to any cleric spells listed therein...

On the contrary:

For simplicity, I usually assume that all spells in the SRD are "common knowledge" and everything else is "obscure/non-existent" unless someone has researched it. That's because the bulk of the reading audience won't know about each and every spell in 3.5, but most of them have the Player's Handbook.

[Jormengand]

Is it reasonable to assume that "Unspecified attack power" is energy push, which seems to be the only power that can knock a creature back in that way? The power showcased here (last panel) would seem not to be mental disruption (which doesn't affect HPoH, whereas the power she's manifesting clearly does), but ultrablast, which is the only power I can find that could include but not affect Tarquin except for demoralise which couldn't affect HPoH either. EDIT: Actually, ultrablast is mind-affecting too. Ideas?)

Also, Laurin is listed as needing to be level 13+ to manifest disintegrate while level drained, but it's possible to manifest disintegrate at level 11. This is moot if the power she manifested really was ultrablast, though.

[Jasdoif]

Also, Laurin is listed as needing to be level 13+ to manifest disintegrate while level drained, but it's possible to manifest disintegrate at level 11. This is moot if the power she manifested really was ultrablast, though.

Manifester level is the cap on how many power points can be spent on a power, and negative levels reduce manifester level like they do anything else based on level. A vampire's energy drain applies two negative levels, so if her level was below 13 she wouldn't be able to spend the minimum 11 power points to manifest disintegrate until the negative levels were removed.

[Yanisa]

The power showcased here (last panel) would seem not to be mental disruption (which doesn't affect HPoH, whereas the power she's manifesting clearly does), but ultrablast, which is the only power I can find that could include but not affect Tarquin except for demoralise which couldn't affect HPoH either. EDIT: Actually, ultrablast is mind-affecting too. Ideas?)

Looking at the next comic (929), V, Belkar and Roy have a squiggly line above their head and seem to stop what their were doing. Also In the next next comic (930) Haley is also affected in this way. Seems like they are dazed. (Are there any other examples of dazed people in the comic?)

On the flip side, Elan, Tarquin, Greg(HPoH) and Mr. Scruffy(?) all seem unaffected (no squiggly line, no stopping in their tracks).

The effect comes closes to Mental Disruption. Only it shows hitting everyone, even those unaffected...

[Jormengand]

Manifester level is the cap on how many power points can be spent on a power, and negative levels reduce manifester level like they do anything else based on level. A vampire's energy drain applies two negative levels, so if her level was below 13 she wouldn't be able to spend the minimum 11 power points to manifest disintegrate until the negative levels were removed.

Oh, right, I forgot the vampire drained two levels. That makes sense.

[Gift Jeraff]

I think Pompey should be listed as level 10+ because he summons a large fiendish monstrous scorpion in the Villains Calendar. And the HQ art seems to take place in the main continuity

Spoiler

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as seen with Hel watching one of the panels from the actual comic.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I wonder if Xykon's comment in #1039 that he'd "been waiting 45 minutes" for Redcloak to finish preparing all his spells is any indication of their relative levels or capabilities? How long does it generally take a sorcerer like Xykon to refresh his spell energy, and if we add 45 minutes, what does that tell us about Redcloak?

[Jormengand]

I wonder if Xykon's comment in #1039 that he'd "been waiting 45 minutes" for Redcloak to finish preparing all his spells is any indication of their relative levels or capabilities? How long does it generally take a sorcerer like Xykon to refresh his spell energy, and if we add 45 minutes, what does that tell us about Redcloak?

Divine casters need an hour to prepare spells and arcane casters who cast spontaneously need fifteen minutes. It has nothing to do with their respective power levels.

[Ruck]

I think Pompey should be listed as level 10+ because he summons a large fiendish monstrous scorpion in the Villains Calendar. And the HQ art seems to take place in the main continuity

Spoiler

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as seen with Hel watching one of the panels from the actual comic.

If he is, it must have come well after the battle for Cliffport, because in #355 Sabine complains about "one minute per caster level" buffing from an apprentice wizard. I don't think level 10 would be considered "apprentice" by any means.

[Kurald Galain]

Added spike/mallet to Belkar, and K:nature to Redcloak; removed dagger from Tarquin; fixed MITD link.

Should we update Xykon's level to 22+ because if he were only level 21 he could be controlled if Redcloak were to roll 22+ on his Command Undead check?

Well, if Redcloak has an ability that is 95% likely to have Xykon kill him outright and 5% likely to command the lich (for a limited amount of time, after which he kills the goblin), then he'd probably not be using that.

And when does Oona get her place?

Based on the Number Of Appearances thread, Daigo and Bandana would be next in line, but we don't have a lot of material on either character.

the only power I can find that could include but not affect Tarquin except for demoralise which couldn't affect HPoH either.

Demoralize gives targets the "shaken" status which makes them afraid and gives a penalty to attacks and such. What's shown in the comic appears to be a stun or daze effect, so it can't be demoralize.

[b_jonas]

In the latest strip #1039, Redcloak casts a spell called "Fortunate Fate". Do you have information about this spell, like what source book it comes from and what does? Should it be mentioned in Redcloak's character sheet in this thread?

1040, Mass Conviction, same question. (Update: Quild says that spell adds a significant bonus to saving throws. Handy cleric spell, I like it. Thanks.)

[Quild]

1040, Mass Conviction, same question.

Mass Conviction
Abjuration
Source: Spell Compendium
Level: Cleric 3
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Allies in a 20-ft.-radius burst

You hold the holy passage aloft and invoke the power of its words. Around you, your friends are bathed in a sea-blue nimbus of light.

This spell functions like conviction, except that it affects multiple allies at a distance.

Spoiler: :p

Show

Conviction
Abjuration
Source: Spell Compendium
Level: Cleric 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You hold the holy passage in your hand and touch your ally, intoning the spell. A sea-blue nimbus of light blossoms about his head and shoulders, strengthening his resolve.

This spell bolsters the mental, physical, and spiritual strength of the creature touched. The spell grants the subject a +2 morale bonus on saving throws, with an additional +1 to the bonus for every six caster levels you have (maximum +5 morale bonus at 18th level).

Material Component: A small parchment with a bit of holy text written upon it.

[Crusher]

Why is Oona bringing out a box of monster parts? Is there a class that can use them?

[Quild]

Why is Oona bringing out a box of monster parts? Is there a class that can use them?

That's pretty much covered in #1039.

:oona: Where else would Oona get magic cold resistant fur for stylish yet functionnal mask?

So these items are probably for some crafting. But nothing says that Oona is the crafter.
(Her mask is probably made of Wendigo fur)

[Quartz]

Well, if Redcloak has an ability that is 95% likely to have Xykon kill him outright and 5% likely to command the lich (for a limited amount of time, after which he kills the goblin), then he'd probably not be using that.

Don't forget that Redcloak may have modifiers to the Rebuke Undead roll which make rolling 22+ much easier. He has at least +1 from Charisma, Unhallow would grant him +4, Improved Turning +1, and Combine Turning (from Ghostwalk) gives +4. That's a possible +10 or more straight off for a roll of 12+ (at worst). I'm sure there are further ways of boosting a Rebuke Undead check. Redcloak would only need another +1 from somewhere and then he could Take 10 on the roll (q.v. Tsukiko's death) and automatically succeed. But the +4 HD limit - 21 HD at level 17 - is a strict hard limit. So Xykon should exceed that limit. Even if Redcloak had a total Cha in the 30s he could not succeed in controlling Xykon. As long as Xykon is more than 4 levels above Redcloak.

And, character-wise, if you were Xykon, would you stick around someone who could control you? Equally, if you were Redcloak, why would you not take control of Xykon?

[Silverionmox]

Don't forget that Redcloak may have modifiers to the Rebuke Undead roll which make rolling 22+ much easier. He has at least +1 from Charisma, Unhallow would grant him +4, Improved Turning +1, and Combine Turning (from Ghostwalk) gives +4. That's a possible +10 or more straight off for a roll of 12+ (at worst). I'm sure there are further ways of boosting a Rebuke Undead check. Redcloak would only need another +1 from somewhere and then he could Take 10 on the roll (q.v. Tsukiko's death) and automatically succeed. But the +4 HD limit - 21 HD at level 17 - is a strict hard limit. So Xykon should exceed that limit. Even if Redcloak had a total Cha in the 30s he could not succeed in controlling Xykon. As long as Xykon is more than 4 levels above Redcloak.

And, character-wise, if you were Xykon, would you stick around someone who could control you? Equally, if you were Redcloak, why would you not take control of Xykon?

Isn't "taking 10" reserved for routine tasks that aren't a threat? The opposite of trying to mind control the pure evil lich that used to be your ally, fully knowing that you would be lucky to get away with being killed instantly if it failed.

[Quartz]

Isn't "taking 10" reserved for routine tasks that aren't a threat?

I'm not sure. I know you can't Take 20. You can Take 10 when casting an Epic spell, for instance. When Redcloak kills Tsukiko he's not shown as making any special attempt to Command her Undead; he's Taking 10. Also, you typically Take 10 for your Perception check to spot the death-dealing trap.

[Douglas]

A) Xykon has +4 Turn Resistance from being a lich.
B) Controlling only happens on undead that are half your level or less.

Redcloak is nowhere near high enough to command Xykon, even with a perfect roll and several bonuses. If he got some bonuses to his effective turning level he might conceivably be able to make Xykon stand still and cower, but even that's a stretch.

[Quartz]

A) Xykon has +4 Turn Resistance from being a lich.

That's not insurmountable. Instead of +1 we need to find +5. Redcloak could have CHA 22, for instance (e.g. if he had 16 base and +6 from cloak or other item).

B) Controlling only happens on undead that are half your level or less.

That is indeed insurmountable from a control perspective. However, the issue of Redcloak Rebuking Xykon still stands.

[Kurald Galain]

That is indeed insurmountable from a control perspective. However, the issue of Redcloak Rebuking Xykon still stands.

Rebuking lasts ten rounds only. Even if he had 22 charisma, Redcloak could keep that up for less than ten minutes per day, after which Xykon will most likely kill him. It is possible that Redcloak is saving this for an emergency situation, since overt hostility doesn't help him manipulate Xykon. It is likewise possible that Xykon is aware of this and has taken countermeasures (indeed, SOD hints at that).

[Douglas]

That's not insurmountable. Instead of +1 we need to find +5. Redcloak could have CHA 22, for instance (e.g. if he had 16 base and +6 from cloak or other item).

More charisma, or any bonus on the turning roll, would not help. Turn Resistance acts like virtual hit dice for the undead, which operates on the outcome side of the table, not the roll side of the table. A level 21 Xykon would interact with rebuking as if he were level 25, which means even with a 22+ turning check Redcloak would have to be at least level 21 to have any effect.

To change that, Redcloak would need things that give him effective turning levels (that is, "you turn/rebuke undead as if you were X levels higher"), not bonuses on the roll. Such things do exist, but they're relatively obscure and not core and we have no evidence that he has any of them.