Erfworld 63, Page 57

[Divine Hammer]

Perhaps archery is just less effective in heavy trees than on the terrain (road, plain, or whetever the boop the tan hexes are) where the column is. Even "forest-capable" units don't shoot all that well -- they're just the only ones that can shoot at flyers at all.

I can't tell if it's just supposed to be a terrain effect (simplest explanation) or if there's supposed to be something else at work. If the arrows didn't seem to curve in different directions, nothing else would have crossed my mind. I'm still leaning toward the simple explanation that the dragons enjoy some cover/concealment during the first (and seemingly, last) volley.

By the way, here's an extremely obscure pop-culture reference involving Evil Knievel. In an interview a few years ago, Evil gave us the quote, "Women are the root of all evil, and I really believe that." Considering how badly things may go for Ansom because of the Wanda/Jillian situation, that may be a pop culture reference that strikes home forcefully.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Perhaps archery is just less effective in heavy trees than on the terrain (road, plain, or whetever the boop the tan hexes are) where the column is. Even "forest-capable" units don't shoot all that well -- they're just the only ones that can shoot at flyers at all.

That's what i thought, heavy penalizations when attacking units *inside* the trees.

Also, i remember that the yellow dragon had a crap attack, done on bolrog in the beginning of the comic (when wanda left the tower after talking to stanley about strategy). Bet that is what is on top of that wood-elf. Aaaand yes, i think last panel shows that the dwagons lay waist to the elf troops. If they are there as a bait, that was one hard bait to swallow. Definetly worth the sacrifice.

And not sure if those trees are the forest gumps... though it would be interesting.

and damn... there are going to pass at least 2 1 more strip until we finally see what happens here...

edit: anyone care to guess what are those blue onomatopeyas mean? i think's just that the dwagons are still in the trees (like branches noises) but i am not conviced...

[BiggusGeekus]

Is Ansom just plain stupid(unlikely), or did he send in the first stack to get wiped out while doing no damage for a reason that we don't have enough information to understand?

Ansom is gambling a bit as we see in the previous comic. He throws some low-power troops at the dwagons and warlords and hopes they do enough damage to kill the dwagons. He also doesn't have much choice. The dwagons will heal to full on Stanley/Parson's turn. Also, Ansom doesn't have a lot of flexibility with what troops he can use. The dwagons are flying units in heavy trees so they can only be attacked by flying units (#39) and forest capable units (Klog #6). Also, Ansom can't send Zamussles and the Archons because he doesn't have enough units with the move to support them (#56).

So it's not that he's unlucky or stupid. Parson has simply left him with few options. So far, Ansom thinks he can pull it off. We'll see.

[Jefepato]

Could it be Parson is using some Mathomancy/Luckomancy to help his dragons?

Interesting thought, but he didn't know about that when he made his move, so his strategy couldn't have hinged on it.

[Thayus]

I gotta wonder if Parson put all 3 uncroaked warlords in the 3-dwagon hex, to boost their combat prowess to the point where they can take forest-stacks with minimal-to-no damage.

Probably not, but I gotta wonder . . .

-Thayus

[Confuseamancer]

edit: anyone care to guess what are those blue onomatopeyas mean? i think's just that the dwagons are still in the trees (like branches noises) but i am not conviced...

I think it's bird noises - they go with the insect noises in orange to show that the forest goes back to normal after the carnage. I think it's to help show that there's at least a break in the battle after this initial attack, and leave us wondering whether Ansom will be sending in more units.

I also wonder about how the commander calls them 'stack one'... I wouldn't have figured a dozen or so archers for a whole stack: in most wargames I'm familiar with, that's about what you'd expect a single unit to represent. And I'd definitely want more massed force to go up against a stack of dwagons; could those archers really be all Ansom brought with him to attack the rear hex?

[Burrito]

Well, if you count, each stack of Woodsy Elves had eight archers. 8 units to a stack, but how many stacks to a hex can you have? Is it different depending on the size of the unit? Cuz it sure looked like Ernie Keebler there was ordering several stacks around.

[Imrahil]

That was the cutest little hole that I've ever seen punched through a person before...

As a side notes, apparently the 'wood sprites' don't help whatsoever. Next assault, they should prey to the Spirits of Kevlar.

[Aquillion]

The wood force isn't a big deal (they're assaulting a mountain city, not a forest city) but the siege sure is.

Losing the wood force would be a big deal because Ansom has almost no fliers; those wood forces are his only way to fight back against dragons in heavy forest spaces. Without them, Parson can just launch hit and run attacks out of any nearby forests forever.

[normalphil]

Yes, there's just no 'perfect' way to take out a unit of Dwagons in heavy terrain with Ansom's unit options. If he's willing to pay the butcher's bill he'll pull it off; he doesn't have any other options. It's going to be a bloodbath.

[Burrito]

'nother though. Was the attack on the three Dwagons the main attack, or a feint? We see team Ansom motoring their way through the woods, with the Gumps (or whatever they are), the Woodsys and the Bats. But we only saw the Dwagons fighting the Woodsys. Just wondering if we were just meant to think "Evel was going to jump the Grand Canyon", and is instead going to hit somewhere else?

[NegroSuave]

I don't post often but I must say ErfWorld is my favorite Comic as of right now. I wish it would update more!

Now to comment on the comic. It would make great sense to intersperse the wounded units with the full health ones. I think he is indeed leaving health ones in the middle with one or two warlords as well.

As far as Parson's Luck this turn. I am beginning to think he has already figured a way to push this battle in his favor that or his Stupid Toy has upped his bonuses.

[Ubiq]

I love the sound effects...
"crickle" just takes the cake, though :)

I liked that as well. It's even funnier if you imagine a "SNAP" sound effect to go along with the wishbone and a "POP" to accompany the bubble gum breath attack. Snap, crickle, pop! Iced elvsies!

And not sure if those trees are the forest gumps... though it would be interesting.

Considering that the RUNNN NUHUHUH sound effect might be a reference to "RUN, FORREST, RUN!", that's entirely possible.

[teratorn]

Losing the wood force would be a big deal because Ansom has almost no fliers; those wood forces are his only way to fight back against dragons in heavy forest spaces. Without them, Parson can just launch hit and run attacks out of any nearby forests forever.

Not when all the fliers are back. Then instead of this puny attack, it will be stacks of gwiffons and unipegataurs. The win/lose ratio won't please Parson. The problem for Ansom is that next turn he loses all siege. He had to act now.

[TiamatRoar]

Losing the wood force would be a big deal because Ansom has almost no fliers; those wood forces are his only way to fight back against dragons in heavy forest spaces. Without them, Parson can just launch hit and run attacks out of any nearby forests forever.

I meant in terms of assaulting the city, not in terms of the road to it. Although you're forgetting that Ansom has a huge flier force that overall is stronger than the dragons (Parson himself in his Klog stated that BOTH groups, which included the flier group, were too strong to attack directly after the archons came along). Fliers can attack other fliers in heavy forest, too.

Of course, right NOW that flier force is away, but it'll be back within a turn. Sacrificing the wood units (that won't be of much use against a mountain city) to save the siege units until those fliers can get back is basically Ansom's only option now.

[Balance]

I've decided all Fantasy based Dragons need a "Crap of Opportunity" Attack like the yellow Dwagons. Maybe it's a spell like ability....?

I find normal random encounters very dull in D&D, so when I'm DMing, I tend to make my own set of odd encounters, sometimes with their own mini-stories attached. They don't always involve combat. In one (rather silly) campaign, I had a party of level 3-ish characters encounter an adult red dragon.

More specifically, I informed them that an enormous winged shadow passed over them, then gave them a moment to panic before I demanded a Dex check. Of the entire group--which included two thieves, by the way--only the pack mule succeeded on the check. Thus, the mule was the only one that didn't have to trek back to town reeking of dragon dung. The dragon flew on without ever noticing them.

For the rest of the campaign, whenever someone thought the party was about to be in deep boop, he'd say, "I'm checking the sky for dragons."

[NegroSuave]

I meant in terms of assaulting the city, not in terms of the road to it. Although you're forgetting that Ansom has a huge flier force that overall is stronger than the dragons (Parson himself in his Klog stated that BOTH groups, which included the flier group, were too strong to attack directly after the archons came along). Fliers can attack other fliers in heavy forest, too.

Of course, right NOW that flier force is away, but it'll be back within a turn. Sacrificing the wood units (that won't be of much use against a mountain city) to save the siege units until those fliers can get back is basically Ansom's only option now.

I wonder if next turn he is going to use the lack of battle field awareness to pull out the majority of the dwagons and leave Ansom trying to hit every forest stack.

Not really sure the move of the ground units but it would be a good way to bog them down or Divide and conquer which is to keep the ground units busy and attempt to take on the air units leaving Ansom without much air cover save the Archons.

I think Jillian will end up being the X factor as far as the effectiveness of the gwiffons and archons

[DCR]

'nother though. Was the attack on the three Dwagons the main attack, or a feint? We see team Ansom motoring theri way through the woods, with the Gumps (or whatever they are), the Woodsys and the Bats. But we only saw the Dwagons fighting the Woodsys. Just wondering.

I wondered the same thing, but there's that whole "stack one" to offset that. Aaaaand we've seen nothing to indicate that Parson's opposition has thought of any strategy beyond 'get a bigger hammer'. Mebbe that set of dwagon fodder was the closest stack, while Vinny and Co. have farther to go.

[slayerx]

Well, If those elves are indeed getting so badly slaughtered could be that Parson is using tactics unfamilar to erfworld... Just as erfworlders never thought of the possiblity to hit and run tactics, it could be that they never really thought of how to use the terrain to their advantage. Perhaps in erfworld, during an encounter all units just plain charge at eachother and the stronger of two wins out... from the looks of it, what the dwagons are doing is hiding in the trees and then ambushing the enemies just as they come into close range, giving the units little time to strike (not sure of that, since it looks like the elves attacke'd first and weren't really ambushed)... but it is still something that could be contributing to the dwagons taking less damage than they should...

Another possibility is that, even though vinnie only saw the 3 dwagons, the 3 uncroaked warlords could actually be in the same stack as those three, but instead of riding them, they are just hiding in the trees unseen... As long as they are part of the same stack they can give the dwagons their warlord bonus, they can also relay, to the dwagons, parson's specific instructions on how to attack; such as taking out the archers first and the sprites second; as opposed to attacking randomly; and telling them to stay in the trees and attack from there... Ansom's sending in his troops under the impression that they are just 3 dwagons, but they are actually 3 dwagons that have a triple warlord bonus and with Parson's tactics...

[MedPig]

That was the cutest little hole that I've ever seen punched through a person before...

As a side notes, apparently the 'wood sprites' don't help whatsoever. Next assault, they should prey to the Spirits of Kevlar.

Nope, not going to help. Kevlar translates high-speed impact into flatten projectile,and a big bruise. Something as sharp as a dwagon's tail? Going to blow right through it...

(Plus, after about 8-12 hours, Kevlar smells SO bad, even a blind dwagon could find you. Woof.)

[Imrahil]

Nope, not going to help. Kevlar translates high-speed impact into flatten projectile,and a big bruise. Something as sharp as a dwagon's tail? Going to blow right through it...

(Plus, after about 8-12 hours, Kevlar smells SO bad, even a blind dwagon could find you. Woof.)

Actually, I did know that about Kevlar, but I couldn't think of anything else that would be funny at that moment. Also, saying the "Spirits of a Combination of both Conventional Armour Plating and Explosive Reactive Armour" is a bit lengthy.

[charles]

You get a bonus when you group units together into "stacks" but it maxes out at 8 units, so you're better off to send 8 units at a time to spread the bonus better.

Looks like attacking units get first shots but defending units probably have a defensive bonus. I'm pretty sure that Ansom is sending all the weaker units to wear down the 3 dwagons before punching through with heavy units and attacking the center hex himself. remember his arken-pliers are good for killing the uncroaked warlords.

If he does find that center hex empty, he's holding Jillian in reserve, so he might be able to get her to wherever Parson has hidden the dwagons, although there's nothing to suggest Parson had to keep all 19 of them in one hex.

When they say that both the flier and ground units where too strong to fully attack with the dwagons thats not to suggest the whole flier squad could return and take out the dwagons. Only a few of the entire armada had enough move to make it back and thats not enough to kill them on their own.

We still have a long way to go in the story so I can't imagine that this is it and Parson is home free. I believe Gillian might be sent ahead to attack the city while the dwagons are away and the lookamancers will probably fall apart, really putting the pressure back on.

[NegroSuave]

Another possibility is that, even though vinnie only saw the 3 dwagons, the 3 uncroaked warlords could actually be in the same stack as those three, but instead of riding them, they are just hiding in the trees unseen... As long as they are part of the same stack they can give the dwagons their warlord bonus, they can also relay, to the dwagons, parson's specific instructions on how to attack; such as taking out the archers first and the sprites second; as opposed to attacking randomly; and telling them to stay in the trees and attack from there... Ansom's sending in his troops under the impression that they are just 3 dwagons, but they are actually 3 dwagons that have a triple warlord bonus and with Parson's tactics...

They presumably know how many warlords their are either they got intel from teh last attack which would make this extremely possible. Or they used the bats to detect more than just dwagons.

The former tactic reminds me of a game of stratego. Putting the flag piece in or near the front row and then using misdirection to force your opponent to attack a less vulnerable area. Only really works one time, because after that your opponent is expecting that mov, but you can adapt your strategy so that they always have the fear of you pulling that one again wasting time and pieces to clear your front line before digging deeper

[Stroth]

A point that no one has brought up yet that I've seen and would help explain what just happened: Parson has more than three warlords. Where exactly were Ferdinand and Toast during the raid on the column? Possibly setting up one boop of an Ambush?

[SteveMB]

A point that no one has brought up yet that I've seen and would help explain what just happened: Parson has more than three warlords. Where exactly were Ferdinand and Toast during the raid on the column? Possibly setting up one boop of an Ambush?

The original plan in Parson's Klog used three warlords -- presumably, he didn't see any useful role for the other two.

As for the Revised Standard Edition of the plan he came up with after discovering that Ansom is limited by fog-of-war... good question.

[nooblade]

Actually, sacrificing all of the weak units first is a brilliant tactic for this situation--once all of the dwagons' hits are gone, I'm figuring they'll be defenseless against any other troops that Ansom has. So, Parson might technically not be winning yet, even though it looks like he's doing really good. That's why a fourth dwagon there would've made it completely defensive I think--Ansom would've had to go though 4 dwagons worth of free attacks to get into the center square to the weaker units. I think the big problem here is whether any attack is going to be left over for Ansom's larger plan or if the dwagons that attacked the column are going to be there--the 3 dwagons that are attacking now are certainly doomed if this type of assault continues.

Unless, of course, mathamancy can seemingly grant extra attacks for certain units. I expect that the resolution will bend the rules that we've learned so far in order to make it surprizing, kinda like the situation with Wanda's plan, Vinnie's advice, and the Archons that saved Jillian from being the bait in the trap.

[NegroSuave]

Actually looking back at the last Klog. There may be no commanding units in the outer stacks. So Dwagons may just attack anything that moves into their hex.

From reading Klog page 6 Correct me if I am wrong, Parson was going to use the 19 full health dwagons with the warlords to take out the rest of the siege and bring the remaining dwagons home, since they are with in range of the capital.

[slayerx]

They presumably know how many warlords their are either they got intel from teh last attack which would make this extremely possible. Or they used the bats to detect more than just dwagons.

When the A-dwagons attacked the column, Vinnie was able to see with one of his bats that their was three warlords with the dwagons; right before the bat was eaten... however, Ansom's limited intel prevents him from knowing where exactly the A-dwagons and the warlords are. They ASSUME that the A Dwagons and the warlords are all in the base hex surrounded by the B-Dwagons... but due to their limited intel, the warlords may have left the A-dwagons and joined another group or the base hex could even be empty; they have no way of knowing for sure where those warlords are unless they actually see them... so it is possible that the 3 warlords could have joined this stack of three B-dwagons

Actually looking back at the last Klog. There may be no commanding units in the outer stacks. So Dwagons may just attack anything that moves into their hex.

Yes, however, the warlords can change the stacks they are with and can switch to the B-dwagons...

From reading Klog page 5 Correct me if I am wrong, Parson was going to use the 19 full health dwagons with the warlords to take out the rest of the siege and bring the remaining dwagons home, since they are with in range of the capital.

that's next turn... this turn the wounded A-dwagons are supposed to sit in the middle hex protected by the B-dwagons (assuming the plan hasn't changed at all since the klog); they don't have the move to make it back yet... next turn after they are all fully healed and have regained their movement, then they will attack once more on their way back home

[NegroSuave]

When the A-dwagons attacked the column, Vinnie was able to see with one of his bats that their was three warlords with the dwagons; right before the bat was eaten... however, Ansom's limited intel prevents him from knowing where exactly the A-dwagons and the warlords are. They ASSUME that the A Dwagons and the warlords are all in the base hex surrounded by the B-Dwagons... but due to their limited intel, the warlords may have left the A-dwagons and joined another group or the base hex could even be empty; they have no way of knowing for sure where those warlords are unless they actually see them... so it is possible that the 3 warlords could have joined this stack of three B-dwagons

Yeah looking again that makes more sense. Thanks for that. If the center hex is empty then Ansom will have wasted a lot of move.

[Overdark]

edit: anyone care to guess what are those blue onomatopeyas mean? i think's just that the dwagons are still in the trees (like branches noises) but i am not conviced...

The chirping of crickets and frogs is meant to denote a calm environment.

Watch a few Daffy Duck cartoons...