Erfworld 63, Page 57

[Overdark]

Considering that the RUNNN NUHUHUH sound effect might be a reference to "RUN, FORREST, RUN!", that's entirely possible.

I believe its meant to be the Bionic Man slow-motion running sound effect.

[the.sundance.kid]

Or it's possible that all of the dwagons–save for those making up the 'fortress circle' itself–are in this one hex, with a warlord commanding no more than three of them to defend at once. This way Ansom throws stack after stack at the position, assuming he can defeat the three dwagons he knows about, but they're actually facing fresh dwagons on every assault, completely nullifying any chance of victory by attrition. Parson tricks Ansom into bleeding out a huge chunk of his forest-capables, and then next turn his dwagons heal, vaporize the remaining siege, and fly home.

[CloverofCanton]

I think The Run nuhnuhnuh noise is actually supposed to be like a motorcycle reving and moving at high speed. Sorta classier than Vroom-a-zomm-zoom.

[teratorn]

As for the Revised Standard Edition of the plan he came up with after discovering that Ansom is limited by fog-of-war... good question.

Well, the thing is, the dwagons were already halfway to the column, near to place where they left Jillian, to ambush Ansom. The warlords were likely with the dwagons by then. This was one of the reasons the attack was so devastating. The A dwagons still had a lot of move when they reached the column. Parson could have sent for more warlords at GB but having all the croaked warlords near the column seems a bit dangerous.

[BarGamer]

We also heard bird sounds on Page 8. Significance? Who knows...

Since the tall ones are Woodsy Elves, the "pair who attacked anyways" has GOT to be "Eager" Elves, though in response to Parson's new toy, it might be safe to call them ALL "Luckless" Elves. XD (The pairs' ears are a tad wider than the earlier comics, though. Blooper or a different kind of Elves?)

And yes, I fully believe that Parson is messing with the dragons' stats with Lucky Mathamancy. There'd be no reason NOT to, especially after his little brag-fest to Stanley, his desire to conserve units, and AT NO COST? How do you like the taste of a wiped stack, Ansom? Take another bite out of the Donut of Doom, we DARE ya!

Noticed that Vinny is wearing a "message" hat, and Ansom the Pliers. I wonder who's at the other end? (He looks pretty styling in it, too.)

Also, in the course of re-reading the archives, Stanley knows that Ansom has an Arkentool, and in an earlier comic, it's shown dusting uncroaked. It would be really convenient to assume that they are Wanda's uncroaked, and that Stanley knows about that property, and passed it along to Lord Hamster. If not, well, let's hope the Lookamancers spot it DARN soon!

[AgarwaenTheTire]

Perhaps you can only move a single stack at a time. Ansom would then be moving in single stacks with a full bonus to soften up the dragons before moving in with his warlord stacks. He doesn't want to risk his warlords, AKA Manpower's demise. I think we can assume we saw one round of combat with the elves attacking and then the dwagons attacking TWICE. The plan to attack the 3 dwagons over the 4 dwagon makes much more sense in this case because part of your stack will get a second shot. Or maybe you can move another stack in after that round and let your forces build up.
I think it's important to remember that those 3 dwagons represent 7% of all of Parson's dwagons. He has to avoid pitched battles with them if he's goning to stand a chance. Honestly, that center stack might be the safest place for Ansom. If it's empty and he moves his all his forces in to protect him from a counter-attack then the column will be wide open and all the surviving dwagons can get back to home safely. The devastation and it's effect on Ansom's allies would really to swing the battle. Still the war has only begun.

[ichthus]

Well, if you count, each stack of Woodsy Elves had eight archers. 8 units to a stack, but how many stacks to a hex can you have? Is it different depending on the size of the unit? Cuz it sure looked like Ernie Keebler there was ordering several stacks around.

Just remember that stack bonuses cap at eight. As Parson explains in a klog, you see a lot of eight unit formations because of this. No reason to stack more than that, because you no longer get extra stack bonuses at that point.

Spoiler

Show

Also, you never see the parts of the dragons where a rider would sit. Is Parson letting Ansom send troops into a set of 3 dragons buffed by 3 warlords sitting on them?

[Harr]

Wow. This is one of those really really good strips. Awesome.

I can't resist commenting that I think it would have come off a bit stronger with no speech bubbles at all during the whole thing. But it's still awesome. Especially the wide-panels. And the coloring. And everything.

[ichthus]

such as taking out the archers first and the sprites second;

What is it with people and presuming that there are literally 'Wood Spirits' with them? I think the elf was just saying something along the lines of 'Godspeed to you all'. Does that literally mean that God is a unit in that stack (well, depending on your religious beliefs, but we'll not go into that specific aspect of this right now)? Nope, it is just wishing the units safety.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Dwagons are pretty strong, they are feared for a reason. Ansom's council was a bit wary about trying to take on those 19 dwagons even with all the forces they could muster at them. They also knew that it would take alot of troops to break through the rear hex...that they would have to slowly whittle away at them while losing several men in order to get through to the center hex.

Vinnie had said that they should have lost 5-6 stacks for each 'victory'...but that was assuming that the dwagons were attacking a hex full of several stacks that were al attacking the dwagons back (since they were not in woods, anyone could attack the dwagons...meaning that in the column they had alot more firepower than they do in the forest.

Also, they might be sending in wave after wave to keep the dwagons from being able to roast massive amounts of men in a single breath attack...sometimes when they can only get a single atack in when they get in range before a single breath can wipe out a stack or two...you start to want to send them in in spread out waves so as not to maximize the enemy's ability to mow you down...it is slower, and you lose alot of troops...but it might be better than a mass assault in which multiple stacks in close proximity can be annihilated with ease.

Remember Saving Private Ryan...10 men is a juicy oppertunity...one man is a waste of ammo...This comic might just be showing how much they are having to sacrifice just to enter into Parson's trap...

[NegroSuave]

What is it with people and presuming that there are literally 'Wood Spirits' with them? I think the elf was just saying something along the lines of 'Godspeed to you all'. Does that literally mean that God is a unit in that stack (well, depending on your religious beliefs, but we'll not go into that specific aspect of this right now)? Nope, it is just wishing the units safety.

I was reading that as not assuming that they just sent in a stack of archers...
Infact it would definitely appear that they arent all archers as evidenced by the last two and their foolhardy charge

[HalionKhargos]

Hmmm. Having seen this Erfworld 63, a few pieces of information came to mind. First off, I don't believe that having their first stack massacred was anything more or less than what Vinnie and Ansom expected to have happen. While Ansom and Co. were planning their upcoming turn, Vinnie stated that they would have to punch through the weak hex to attack the middle of the formation. Also, Vinnie and Ansom have enough experience to be able to tell the different types of dwagons apart and to know which were the weakest, relatively speaking. The point being, they knew they were going to lose at least a few units when passing through that intervening stack.

This brings up an interesting question. Why send in only one stack then? Well, knowing that this is modeled after a tabletop game, I would have to guess that dwagons are limited in their breath weapon usages per turn. Given the number of usages that I've seen, I'd say its likely that each dwagon only gets one usage per turn and that the weaker dwagons (such as pink, purple, and yellow) are known to have a single or limited-unit-number-effect for their breath weapons. For instance, if a red had been there, it would have used its breath weapon once and toasted the whole stack (a theory I believe is backed up by the area affected when the red dragon breath toasted the orlies in erfworld 12 (that, and the fact that in dnd, red dragons pwn everything in sight). The point of all the rambling here is that Ansom sent in what was probably his weakest stack to 'trick' the dwagons into wasting their 1-per-turn breath weapons. Got to love those automatic response patterns for uncontrolled units. This theory is especially strong considering Ansom himself plans to move through the dwagons threatened area. The 1-stack loss for Ansom is easily acceptable, given that it nets him a far higher chance of making it through the intervening hex without being subjected to the crap of doom or the bubble attack.

Also, for all those who believe that Parson may have intentionally strengthened those three dwagons... Well, a few things to consider. First off, those dwagons are technically the defenders, and may get bonuses to AC for being in the trees in the first place. I would guess the appearance of a curving effect on the arrows would be the result of gravity. The curvature of the flight paths was uniform among all the arrows, including some which came closer to the dwagons BECAUSE of the curvature. I guess nobody ever said these elves had even decent bows. They could all be 20lb draws ("hey guys, if Stanley gets desperate and fields nothing but cute, furry bunnies, we'll be set!"). Hence, no need for any force-field style deflection effect. Secondly, despite Parson having a nifty new mathamancy toy, he doesn't necessarily know how to use it. And, more importantly, he has no mathamancers that we know of, who would presumably get the lions share of the benefits from using such an item. The last point is that this is currently not Parson's turn. While he may be able to have some influence on the battle, such as giving orders through the thinkamancer conglomerate (now, doesen't THAT phrase just send warm tingles down your spine), his units may not be able to actually follow them till it is Parson's turn. While Ansom and Co.'s turn was still going on, units can only react to other units entering their hex (remember that to individual units, each hex is fairly large, allowing for the dramatic fight scenes we've seen thus far). Hence, units can only be ordered specifically to alternate from default responses when attacking or when directly controlled by a warlord (or thinkamancer conglomerate).

There. I got it all out. I can now go to bed in peace. Good night everyone!

[erewhon]

I think The Run nuhnuhnuh noise is actually supposed to be like a motorcycle reving and moving at high speed. Sorta classier than Vroom-a-zomm-zoom.

What the?


Okay, I see very few people are from the country, or watch Japanese anime.

It's Locusts, folks. They make that droning call on hot days. If you've ever heard it, its utterly distinctive, a very plaintive sound of hot summer afternoons....


Very nifty. Denotes the hot, quiet calm before the battle.

Erfworld is...really good. Mr. Burlew has chosen wisely. :D

[JazzManJim]

What the?


Okay, I see very few people are from the country, or watch Japanese anime.

It's Locusts, folks. They make that droning call on hot days. If you've ever heard it, its utterly distinctive, a very plaintive sound of hot summer afternoons....


Very nifty. Denotes the hot, quiet calm before the battle.

Erfworld is...really good. Mr. Burlew has chosen wisely. :D

I really don't think so.

It's the sound of a motorcycle - Ansom's rolled-up carpet, specifically. Note that the sound continues right up to Ansom in the second line of the comic, giving it continuity.

[PlasticSoldier]

I really don't think so.

It's the sound of a motorcycle - Ansom's rolled-up carpet, specifically. Note that the sound continues right up to Ansom in the second line of the comic, giving it continuity.

the sound by ansom is nerrrrrr not run uhuhuhuhu
I think nerrr is from the trees creaking or otherwise performing treeish noises including but not necessarily Entish after all there would need to be other languages for people to even bother calling Common something other than Language.

[Tom90deg]

due to their limited intel, the warlords may have left the A-dwagons and joined another group or the base hex could even be empty

This was my first thought, actually. It's the one spot they don't know about, and that one blank space can look awfully big. IF there's nothing in that spot, then wham-bam-thank you ma'am, the main force is surrounded. I'd think parson would know how to lay out a nice trap, and this would be a good one.

[Aerysil]

Look, kindling!

You can always use kindling!

[galdon]

What is it with people and presuming that there are literally 'Wood Spirits' with them? I think the elf was just saying something along the lines of 'Godspeed to you all'. Does that literally mean that God is a unit in that stack (well, depending on your religious beliefs, but we'll not go into that specific aspect of this right now)? Nope, it is just wishing the units safety.

yes, he's called BFM 99/99 can only be blocked by three or more creatures.

mtg reference.


anyways, counting the bodys.. and parts.. i think i counted roughly 20 archers, considering there were so many parts laying around maybe it could have been 16 for two stacks. or maybe 24 for 3. regardless, i doubt the dwagons took any dammage in that.


also, this is a game scenario, so if you send a scout into a hexigon you will gain full knowledge of what that hex controls. 'hiding' isnt so much a factor as far as the provided rules have mentioned.

[blue chicken]

Just look at the dwagon expressions when they're getting arrow'd. They're not worried AT ALL. Something's definitely afoot, but then again...the first assault, when Ansom has all of those other units in reserve, is clearly a feint of some sort.

...bubble gum breath weapon. Mmmm. Fruitylicious.

[NegroSuave]

Wall of text rolls a natural 20... Ugh... ok I actually did read all this

Hmmm. Having seen this Erfworld 63, a few pieces of information came to mind. First off, I don't believe that having their first stack massacred was anything more or less than what Vinnie and Ansom expected to have happen.

Naturally it appears that they are quite content going for the weak stack as their point of attack

While Ansom and Co. were planning their upcoming turn, Vinnie stated that they would have to punch through the weak hex to attack the middle of the formation. Also, Vinnie and Ansom have enough experience to be able to tell the different types of dwagons apart and to know which were the weakest, relatively speaking. The point being, they knew they were going to lose at least a few units when passing through that intervening stack.

Here i think you are letting a bit of your own humanity clouding your judgement. There is no evidence that Ansom is the least bit moved by his loss of units. Much as they were more concerned about the tactical loss of units as opposed to the "lives" that the units represented. It can be easily gauged that Ansom knows he has the numbers advantage so why worry about a stack?

This brings up an interesting question. Why send in only one stack then? Well, knowing that this is modeled after a tabletop game, I would have to guess that dwagons are limited in their breath weapon usages per turn. Given the number of usages that I've seen, I'd say its likely that each dwagon only gets one usage per turn and that the weaker dwagons (such as pink, purple, and yellow) are known to have a single or limited-unit-number-effect for their breath weapons. For instance, if a red had been there, it would have used its breath weapon once and toasted the whole stack (a theory I believe is backed up by the area affected when the red dragon breath toasted the orlies in erfworld 12 (that, and the fact that in dnd, red dragons pwn everything in sight). The point of all the rambling here is that Ansom sent in what was probably his weakest stack to 'trick' the dwagons into wasting their 1-per-turn breath weapons.

Looking at the frame not every unit used its breath attacks. Infact only the pink used its breath attack. Regardless of breath attacks, the dragons literally ate that stack alive, no breath needed.

Got to love those automatic response patterns for uncontrolled units. This theory is especially strong considering Ansom himself plans to move through the dwagons threatened area. The 1-stack loss for Ansom is easily acceptable, given that it nets him a far higher chance of making it through the intervening hex without being subjected to the crap of doom or the bubble attack.

I believe that ansom was hoping that the archers woudl have been able to take out the weakened dragons. Then either play mop up he and vinny with his bats could take out the dragons.

Also, for all those who believe that Parson may have intentionally strengthened those three dwagons... Well, a few things to consider. First off, those dwagons are technically the defenders, and may get bonuses to AC for being in the trees in the first place.

I believe this is indeed the case as most strategy game have percenge effectiveness for ground based units or having superior position.

I would guess the appearance of a curving effect on the arrows would be the result of gravity.

What physics in a fantasy world perish the thought

You have some good points but somethings like gravity just don't cut it in a fantasy game. There is no gravity modifier to roll in a combat game and while technically sound you are forgetting that this is a world that pops units like popcorn and works based on "turns"

Your most interesting point was about the Mathamancey. He has no mathamancer or due to his inherent knowledge of math and how his calculator watch works he might have some latent usage, or getting that has given all units in the capital city a boost.

[Forevergrey]

Just happened to have Iron Maiden - The Trooper playing as I saw the comic.

Perfect.

[ichthus]

the sound by ansom is nerrrrrr not run uhuhuhuhu
I think nerrr is from the trees creaking or otherwise performing treeish noises including but not necessarily Entish after all there would need to be other languages for people to even bother calling Common something other than Language.

It's motorcycle sounds. Ansom is dressed like a stunt motorcycle rider. Tada. Logic. It is your friend.

Have you people never played motorcycle as children to know what it sounds like?

[Hecore]

Am I the only when that thinks Vinny looks a little like Spike McFang with the top hat on?

[NegroSuave]

Am I the only when that thinks Vinny looks a little like Spike McFang with the top hat on?

Alright i had to google it at work and circumvent many filters that will probably alert my supervisors to say...

Yes, it is indeed just you.

[Balance]

You have some good points but somethings like gravity just don't cut it in a fantasy game. There is no gravity modifier to roll in a combat game and while technically sound you are forgetting that this is a world that pops units like popcorn and works based on "turns"

I think he simply meant that the art was portraying the flight of arrows somewhat realistically--arrows travel in arcs, not straight lines. This would be particulary pronounced when shooting upward, as the arrows' lateral velocity (which isn't affected by gravity) would be lower relative to their vertical velocity. That doesn't mean there's a gravity modifier to a roll, just that it's what arrows would do. (Although there could conceivably be an Erf-mechanic penalty on archers firing upward, I would expect a more standard cover bonus for forest combat.)

[NegroSuave]

I think he simply meant that the art was portraying the flight of arrows somewhat realistically--arrows travel in arcs, not straight lines. This would be particulary pronounced when shooting upward, as the arrows' lateral velocity (which isn't affected by gravity) would be lower relative to their vertical velocity. That doesn't mean there's a gravity modifier to a roll, just that it's what arrows would do. (Although there could conceivably be an Erf-mechanic penalty on archers firing upward, I would expect a more standard cover bonus for forest combat.)

Well, looking back at the last arrow attack. It seemed most of them hit their mark or were on their way to hit their mark that would lead me to believe that the archers are good enough to hit a flying target. A stationary target should be no problem.


But we all could be overanalyzing and they drew it that way because it looked cool. I anxiously await the next one.

[kunou126]

Woodsy Elves just got PWNED!

Oh... and the Ansom Evil Kanivel on the Star Wars Speeder wias a nice touch!

[slashingweapon]

You have some good points but somethings like gravity just don't cut it in a fantasy game. There is no gravity modifier to roll in a combat game

Sure there is, but it is called the "range increment".

[Mystyco]

i'm quite sure that ansom has a lot of 8-stack cutie-sacrificable-woodcapable-elves.
hell, they're trying to get in the central hex AND kill the dwagons that are there (and we don't even know if there is any dwagon there)

however, i think those are "overpowered" dwagons...they're the weakest that parsons have!

[Astyanax]

Just thought of another thing... One assumption people are making is that 8 units is the maximum to a stack. That may not true- the stack bonus maxes out at 8. So it might be possible to have more than 8 units in a stack (with only 8 receiving a bonus). And with 1 warlord, every unit in a huge stack can be directed to fight or not, regardless of whether they have a bonus or not. At least, that's how I interpreted Klog #6...

Could it be possible that Parson's 3-dwagon hex actually has all the remaining dwagons?