New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 181 to 210 of 220
  1. - Top - End - #181
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Just a guess.. the center hex is actually empty. It would be so fitting, with Ansom dead certain that that's the place where wounded dragons are. :)

  2. - Top - End - #182
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by Curxzed View Post
    I don't know if its been discussed or not, I tried to read through some of the earlier discussions, specifically the page 12 discussion.

    But, anyway, I had a question/thought.

    On strip 12 Jillian kills the blue dwagon, then the red smacks her off her ORLY then she is seen being carried off as a captive.

    I don't think that is possible though. I don't see any warlords on the dwagons as Jillian approached. Jillian is herself a warlord but for the other team. She can direct combat but the dwagons just had to 'auto-attack' thus killing anything that had entered their hex or getting killed by it. Every other combat shows one side or the other dead at the end unless a warlord was present on the attacking then retreating team.

    Is that right? Or did I miss something?
    The simplest explanation is that either croaking or capture of all enemy units counts as a conclusion to the battle. Realizing that units could selectively croak or capture specific enemies even without a warlord (as long as they didn't disengage without doing one or the other to every enemy in contact) might have been a bit of an exploit-discovery on Stanley's part.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-06-25 at 04:00 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #183
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Ok went back and checked, it was stated in strip 10, "she's hitting targets of opportunity"

    which is why they were gathering up the rescue force at all.

    And it was in 24 that Stanley says "she ended turn in the trees, and I pulled together a flight of near-by dwagons. Man I'm good"

    So they had specific orders to go get her. Answered my own question I guess.

    Sorry for derailing the thread.
    Curxzed
    Retired 95 Warrior
    Realm of Insanity
    EQ1

  4. - Top - End - #184
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Hmm... this gets me to thinking...

    Why send a warlord to scout? It seems a huge tactical error on Ansom's part. He's practically blind in this battle and his enemy has complete vision. Any scouting party is going to get nuked the moment it draws close to an enemy, so why put your warlord on the edge of the fog of war?

    Its like leading with your queen in chess.

  5. - Top - End - #185
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Apr 2007

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by kunou126 View Post
    Hmm... this gets me to thinking...

    Why send a warlord to scout? It seems a huge tactical error on Ansom's part. He's practically blind in this battle and his enemy has complete vision. Any scouting party is going to get nuked the moment it draws close to an enemy, so why put your warlord on the edge of the fog of war?

    Its like leading with your queen in chess.
    Warlords can carry magical items.

  6. - Top - End - #186
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Gender
    Male

    biggrin Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by Melange View Post
    Personally I think this is just a mistake on everyone's part because of Ansem's lack of intel. Vinny and Ansom assume that this hex has 3 injured dwagons in it that will fall easily, and thus send in a small troop to finish it off. BUT, according to http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0052.html this is not so. The hex actually contains 4 or 5 B dwagons since all the A dwagons are in the center hex. Likely 3 of them showed their heads when the bat flew over so that the intel would be wrong, something that Parson was counting on once he learned that Ansom did not have the linked lookamancers. As such, the reason that "3 injured A dwagons" win, is because the 3 A dwagons are likely 5 uninjured B dwagons. Even if the dwagons took damage from the arrows, it wasn't enough to kill any, because the group was assuming low hp by this point.
    Nice point, however you've got to remember Parson possibly (read probably) changed his game plan due to the fact that he found out Ansom has no intel with the exception of scouts.

    BTW "He who controls the spice controls the universe!!!!!!" Sorry, you name motivates me to say that.

  7. - Top - End - #187
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by jindra34 View Post
    Yes it has been said before... th count was about 20...
    so that's at least 3 stacks!
    Last edited by Monan; 2007-06-26 at 06:38 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #188
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by erewhon View Post
    Yes indeed they are. :)

    Plus, I have had A Thought.


    The ONLY delimiter between the A dwagons and B dwagons was movement rate. Their combat stats were utterly discounted.

    It is possible, indeed likely, that the "slower" B dwagons are MORE powerful in combat than the A dwagons. It's pretty common in games such as this to balance units against each other in such ways. Namely, the slower units are tougher, the weaker units more agile.

    Maybe Parson put those three dwagons in that hex because they are his three strongest units in a fight!

    Could be, could be....
    That is probably and would be a huge effect.

  9. - Top - End - #189
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by Monan View Post
    so that's atleast 3 stacks!
    you tool ranks in jump to conclusions didn't you? 20 means that there were at least 20 entities there... says nothing about stack size... there could have been 20 stacks... and of course the number was a rough estimate by some one else... see ealier in this thread.

  10. - Top - End - #190
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by OnDroid View Post
    And how about uncroaked DWAGONS!
    probaby yes, but we don't know the range of her uncroaking spell.

  11. - Top - End - #191
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by jindra34 View Post
    you tool ranks in jump to conclusions didn't you? 20 means that there were at least 20 entities there... says nothing about stack size... there could have been 20 stacks... and of course the number was a rough estimate by some one else... see ealier in this thread.
    "you tool ranks" ? what does that mean? anyway, if you read my post the 20 stacks you mention is "at least" the at least 3 stacks i mentioned in my post. quite honestly it could have been only one stack, someone mentioned that there seemed to be 2 distinct groups of elves with different colored shirts. And looking at the max bonus for having 8 in a stack 16 elves would max out 2 stacks with bonuses, leaving 4 more for a third stack.

    Why do you have to hate so much in the forum? relax and let the discussion happen.

  12. - Top - End - #192
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by Monan View Post
    "you tool ranks" ? what does that mean? anyway, if you read my post the 20 stacks you mention is "at least" the at least 3 stacks i mentioned in my post. quite honestly it could have been only one stack, someone mentioned that there seemed to be 2 distinct groups of elves with different colored shirts. And looking at the max bonus for having 8 in a stack 16 elves would max out 2 stacks with bonuses, leaving 4 more for a third stack.

    Why do you have to hate so much in the forum? relax and let the discussion happen.
    i meant took and stack bonuses max out at 8 but stacks can be any size you want them to be... re-read the klogs...
    P.S. Learn to use the edit button.
    Last edited by jindra34; 2007-06-25 at 05:27 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #193
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by jindra34 View Post
    i meant took and stack bonuses max out at 8 but stacks can be any size you want them to be... re-read the klogs...
    P.S. Learn to use the edit button.
    Are you even reading my posts? I said it could have been only one stack?

  14. - Top - End - #194
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by jindra34 View Post
    you tool ranks in jump to conclusions didn't you? 20 means that there were at least 20 entities there... says nothing about stack size... there could have been 20 stacks... and of course the number was a rough estimate by some one else... see ealier in this thread.
    Thanks for telling me to use the edit button, considering you haven't used it when you needed to.

    PS read and comprehend posts when making comments.

  15. - Top - End - #195
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by Curxzed View Post
    Ok went back and checked, it was stated in strip 10, "she's hitting targets of opportunity"

    which is why they were gathering up the rescue force at all.
    Actually, Ansom started putting together Webinar's party as soon as Jillian left, even before she started hitting targets of opportunity. He told Webinar that his support mission "could turn into rescue/recovery" after he got the attack report.

    That (along with his comment about how many times she's been captured in the past) seems to suggest that he expects Jillian to get herself in over her head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monan View Post
    anyway, if you read my post the 20 stacks you mention is "at least" the at least 3 stacks i mentioned in my post. quite honestly it could have been only one stack, someone mentioned that there seemed to be 2 distinct groups of elves with different colored shirts. And looking at the max bonus for having 8 in a stack 16 elves would max out 2 stacks with bonuses, leaving 4 more for a third stack.
    The most straightforward interpretation is that the different color shirts represent different stacks, with the lighter green shirts being sent in after the darker green shirts got pwned by the dwagons.

  16. - Top - End - #196
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    teratorn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Algarve (The West)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    I think Jillian's words are in order here:
    «Calm down you gummy beasts.»

    Ansom looks like Easy Rider to me (I didn't even know who Evel Knievel was). After reading the previous posts here are my thoughts on game dynamics:

    1. Dwagons wasted two elvish stacks (gray and green shirts). There seems to be sort of a turn mode (rounds) in these attacks. I didn't have that impression in the spidew sequence.
    2. There's some penalty for arrows fired into the trees. Dwagons were mostly unharmed and only the pink one had to use its fire-power (bubble gum) to finish the elves.
    3. I think the attacking elf-stack wasn't inside the dwagon hex when charge was ordered by the elf-leader. I would expect the dwagons to auto-attack if that was the case.
    4. This may be important because it's not clear how many stacks can charge on each side of an hex. Maybe only one can go at a time, and since they only face one side, that means one stack. And only a round after they charge a second one can enter.
    5. This also means that if there are survivors on one stack, the number of attackers the dwagons have to deal with will increase in the next round.
    Last edited by teratorn; 2007-06-25 at 06:50 PM.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

  17. - Top - End - #197
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    kreszantas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Easy Rider's outfit was a takeoff or rip off of Evel's costume, Dennis Hopper when writing the movie made commentary on the Stuntman's odd (at the time) Elvis like jumpsuit.
    Avatar: Red Dwagon decapitating a Cloth Golem, wonderfully drawn by Erfworld Artist Jamie Naguchi, oh yea and Rob Balder

  18. - Top - End - #198
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    We're in the western experience here, seemingly, and I tell you this is par for the course. They routinely experienced casualty rates for pitched battles that put (offensive!) wars on hiatus for a generation or so until the next batch of warriors could have their balls drop. To get a descicive result, you take losses. 'Shock action' has been the underlining concept behind the western approach to war since the Greeks, tribal or not. (what the Germanic, Gothic, and Frank tribal confederations were willing to subject themselves to when employed as mercenaries by the Roman Empires is telling).
    Great response! Obviously you're a fan of Victor Davis Hanson. I'm more going along the views of Kenneth Harl and his views of Crusader States interactions in the medieval world. Especially as to their tribal level politics.

    I'd also comment that you can tie together food shortages and famines in northwestern europe very closely with "do or die" conquering armies being spawned from there. They were willing to take large casualty rates because there was nothing to return to. Except starvation. Which leads to the excess population theory and that wars are just a way of reducing the population back to the carrying capacity of the land in years of need.

    I agree with you that Medieval knights had years more training than Napoleonic cavalry. But even they were limited in effect against a trained army. Remember Saladin's famous response to the european calvary charge at the Horns of Hattin: Just parting his army out of the way and letting them run on straight through his formations. After their useless downhill charge, the calvary was spent for the day, unable to climb back up to the high ground and rejoin the main army, or the battle. All they could do was trot on home, unable to fight any further ...and watch their army become slaughtered from a distance.
    Last edited by innovan; 2007-06-25 at 07:31 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #199
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Scientivore's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    teratorn, in most of the TBS games that I've played, you give orders to one stack at a time and they immediately do it. I think that the combat feels phased because of one stack entering that hex at a time. I doubt that there will be any surviving elves or gumps in that hex until those three dwagons are croaked.
    Last edited by Scientivore; 2007-06-25 at 09:38 PM.
    My avatar is a remix that I made of Prince Ansom. Resource credit:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Snag some Erfworld avatars and backgrounds, make some lolerfs and motivators (or demotivators), read my Erfworld fanmix, or check out my latest spotlight on an under-discussed webcomic: Head Trip (Scilight #13)!

  20. - Top - End - #200
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    I know the popular Evel Knievel theory but I think the illustrators had someone else in mind when they drew Ansom: (and maybe I'm showing my age here)

    Super Dave Osborne
    Last edited by suraklin; 2007-06-26 at 12:26 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #201
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Freederick's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by kunou126 View Post
    Why send a warlord to scout? It seems a huge tactical error on Ansom's part. He's practically blind in this battle and his enemy has complete vision. Any scouting party is going to get nuked the moment it draws close to an enemy, so why put your warlord on the edge of the fog of war?

    Its like leading with your queen in chess.
    Precisely because a warlord can avoid engagement, which Jillian was explicitly ordered to do (Erfworld 09, panel 5). Thus if a warlord scout encounters an overwhelming force, she can disengage and fly back to report, which a leaderless unit couldn't do.
    As we know, Jillian flippantly chose to ignore these instructions, and was behaving much like a headless unit would--i.e. engaging whatever she encountered. But that's not Ansom's fault. Besides, with Stanley's intel setup, it turned out to be pretty much irrelevant whether she avoided engagement or not--but Ansom hadn't known that, he just assumed that avoiding battle would make her stealthy.

  22. - Top - End - #202
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    (Re: why did Jillian go scouting)

    She *insisted*, didn't she?
    And, iiuic, it's *her* units that have the movement for best scouting.

  23. - Top - End - #203
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    She was also given an "abjuration only" hat. That's a protective spell/ability, so it's entirely possible that it was intended to cloak her and her Gwiffon ("the Orlies are expendable. You're not!") from the Eyemancers, so long as she didn't reveal her presence among the stack by attacking anything. The tactical error in doing so was hers, not Ansom's, and as soon as he learned she was doing so he informed Webinar that his own scouting group was likely to become a rescue mission.
    Last edited by ChowGuy; 2007-06-26 at 07:40 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #204
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by ChowGuy View Post
    She was also given an "abjuration only hat. That's a protective spell/ability, so it's entirely possible that it was intended to cloak her and her Gwiffon ("the Orlies are expandible. You're not!") from the Eyemancers, so long as she didn't reveal her presence among the stack by attacking anything. The tactical error in doing so was hers, not Ansom's, and as soon as he learned she was doing so he informed Webinar that his own scouting group was likely to become a rescue mission.
    ok abjuration does not always mean protective as it does in DnD... in fact the DnD spell classifications are mostly off... and your making an assumption about Ansom knowing Stanley's intel setup... other than that it looks decent...

  25. - Top - End - #205
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    ok abjuration does not always mean protective as it does in DnD.
    Actually it doesn't mean that at all, outside of D&D. The dictionary definition is "renunciation of oath" but unless Ansom expected her to break her alliance with it, I don't see how that applies

  26. - Top - End - #206
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by ChowGuy View Post
    Actually it doesn't mean that at all, outside of D&D. The dictionary definition is "renunciation of oath" but unless Ansom expected her to break her alliance with it, I don't see how that applies
    abjure at its base means to through away... as conjure means to throw together... wow latin is useful...

  27. - Top - End - #207
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    shakes019's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Guelph, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by suraklin View Post
    I know the popular Evel Knievel theory but I think the illustrators had someone else in mind when they drew Ansom: (and maybe I'm showing my age here)

    Super Dave Osborne
    Pedantically speaking, I believe you're showing your youth. Evel Knievel was active as a stuntman from 1961 to 1975, where the Super Dave character was introduced in 1972 as a parody of Evel Knievel.

  28. - Top - End - #208
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Another thing I was thinking about.

    In other threads theories about what is or isn't in the middle hex abound. Even some have said it is possible that there are warlords in the ring hexes, or 3 warlords in the 3 dwagon (so far) hex.

    I don't think that is the case, because Jillian knew she was completely outmatched (by the stack, not any single dwagon) when she was attacked. Since it was not her turn, she either A) couldn't run away or B) could run away and didn't even knowing she was either toast or headed to the dungeon.

    It's entirely possible she knows she won't be killed so sticks around to get some fun in killing what she can. Thoroughly within the realm of what a barbarian would do.

    But still, I think zero move means zero, no retreat nothing. Lots of TBS games have the no retreat type of combat.

    Also, is it possible the difference between "A" dwagons and "B" dwagons is level? Potentially any of their stats could increase with level, including movement rate. No one from Erfworld categorized the dwagons that way, it was Parson that did that, iirc.
    Curxzed
    Retired 95 Warrior
    Realm of Insanity
    EQ1

  29. - Top - End - #209
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by Freederick View Post
    Precisely because a warlord can avoid engagement, which Jillian was explicitly ordered to do (Erfworld 09, panel 5). Thus if a warlord scout encounters an overwhelming force, she can disengage and fly back to report, which a leaderless unit couldn't do.
    As we know, Jillian flippantly chose to ignore these instructions, and was behaving much like a headless unit would--i.e. engaging whatever she encountered. But that's not Ansom's fault. Besides, with Stanley's intel setup, it turned out to be pretty much irrelevant whether she avoided engagement or not--but Ansom hadn't known that, he just assumed that avoiding battle would make her stealthy.
    Can a warlord avoid engagement after their movement is expired and when it is not their turn? If so, you can never kill a warlord unit that doesn't want to die. Seems illogical.

    It may be that Jillian was captured on her turn because she selected to engage the dragons, but even if she hadn't attacked her movement would eventually have been exhausted and she would be a sitting duck.

    I think Ansom knows the setup that Stanley has, he just thinks it doesn't matter. He's got 4 times the amount of troops the attack should require and he uses that as a crutch, not realizing that he's swinging a big stick with a lumbering giant at a (now) dexterous and cunning enemy - although I believe he's in the middle of learning that lesson.
    Last edited by kunou126; 2007-06-26 at 12:49 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #210
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57

    Quote Originally Posted by kunou126 View Post
    It may be that Jillian was captured on her turn because she selected to engage the dragons, but even if she hadn't attacked her movement would eventually have been exhausted and she would be a sitting duck.
    Stanley specifically said that Jillian ended turn in the trees, and he pulled together some nearby dwagons to go after her.

    I think Ansom knows the setup that Stanley has, he just thinks it doesn't matter. He's got 4 times the amount of troops the attack should require and he uses that as a crutch, not realizing that he's swinging a big stick with a lumbering giant at a (now) dexterous and cunning enemy.
    I'm pretty sure that the Coalition doesn't know about Stanley's omniscient-eye setup, because if they did Jillian's escapes would be utterly ridiculous, not merely suspicious.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •