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Thread: Erfworld 63, Page 57
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2007-06-25, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
Just a guess.. the center hex is actually empty. It would be so fitting, with Ansom dead certain that that's the place where wounded dragons are. :)
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2007-06-25, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
The simplest explanation is that either croaking or capture of all enemy units counts as a conclusion to the battle. Realizing that units could selectively croak or capture specific enemies even without a warlord (as long as they didn't disengage without doing one or the other to every enemy in contact) might have been a bit of an exploit-discovery on Stanley's part.
Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-06-25 at 04:00 PM.
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2007-06-25, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
Ok went back and checked, it was stated in strip 10, "she's hitting targets of opportunity"
which is why they were gathering up the rescue force at all.
And it was in 24 that Stanley says "she ended turn in the trees, and I pulled together a flight of near-by dwagons. Man I'm good"
So they had specific orders to go get her. Answered my own question I guess.
Sorry for derailing the thread.Curxzed
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2007-06-25, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
Hmm... this gets me to thinking...
Why send a warlord to scout? It seems a huge tactical error on Ansom's part. He's practically blind in this battle and his enemy has complete vision. Any scouting party is going to get nuked the moment it draws close to an enemy, so why put your warlord on the edge of the fog of war?
Its like leading with your queen in chess.
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2007-06-25, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-06-25, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
Nice point, however you've got to remember Parson possibly (read probably) changed his game plan due to the fact that he found out Ansom has no intel with the exception of scouts.
BTW "He who controls the spice controls the universe!!!!!!" Sorry, you name motivates me to say that.
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2007-06-25, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-06-25, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-06-25, 05:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
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2007-06-25, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
"you tool ranks" ? what does that mean? anyway, if you read my post the 20 stacks you mention is "at least" the at least 3 stacks i mentioned in my post. quite honestly it could have been only one stack, someone mentioned that there seemed to be 2 distinct groups of elves with different colored shirts. And looking at the max bonus for having 8 in a stack 16 elves would max out 2 stacks with bonuses, leaving 4 more for a third stack.
Why do you have to hate so much in the forum? relax and let the discussion happen.
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2007-06-25, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-06-25, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
Actually, Ansom started putting together Webinar's party as soon as Jillian left, even before she started hitting targets of opportunity. He told Webinar that his support mission "could turn into rescue/recovery" after he got the attack report.
That (along with his comment about how many times she's been captured in the past) seems to suggest that he expects Jillian to get herself in over her head.
The most straightforward interpretation is that the different color shirts represent different stacks, with the lighter green shirts being sent in after the darker green shirts got pwned by the dwagons.
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2007-06-25, 06:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
I think Jillian's words are in order here:
«Calm down you gummy beasts.»
Ansom looks like Easy Rider to me (I didn't even know who Evel Knievel was). After reading the previous posts here are my thoughts on game dynamics:
- Dwagons wasted two elvish stacks (gray and green shirts). There seems to be sort of a turn mode (rounds) in these attacks. I didn't have that impression in the spidew sequence.
- There's some penalty for arrows fired into the trees. Dwagons were mostly unharmed and only the pink one had to use its fire-power (bubble gum) to finish the elves.
- I think the attacking elf-stack wasn't inside the dwagon hex when charge was ordered by the elf-leader. I would expect the dwagons to auto-attack if that was the case.
- This may be important because it's not clear how many stacks can charge on each side of an hex. Maybe only one can go at a time, and since they only face one side, that means one stack. And only a round after they charge a second one can enter.
- This also means that if there are survivors on one stack, the number of attackers the dwagons have to deal with will increase in the next round.
Last edited by teratorn; 2007-06-25 at 06:50 PM.
Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).
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2007-06-25, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
Easy Rider's outfit was a takeoff or rip off of Evel's costume, Dennis Hopper when writing the movie made commentary on the Stuntman's odd (at the time) Elvis like jumpsuit.
Avatar: Red Dwagon decapitating a Cloth Golem, wonderfully drawn by Erfworld Artist Jamie Naguchi, oh yea and Rob Balder
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2007-06-25, 07:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
We're in the western experience here, seemingly, and I tell you this is par for the course. They routinely experienced casualty rates for pitched battles that put (offensive!) wars on hiatus for a generation or so until the next batch of warriors could have their balls drop. To get a descicive result, you take losses. 'Shock action' has been the underlining concept behind the western approach to war since the Greeks, tribal or not. (what the Germanic, Gothic, and Frank tribal confederations were willing to subject themselves to when employed as mercenaries by the Roman Empires is telling).
I'd also comment that you can tie together food shortages and famines in northwestern europe very closely with "do or die" conquering armies being spawned from there. They were willing to take large casualty rates because there was nothing to return to. Except starvation. Which leads to the excess population theory and that wars are just a way of reducing the population back to the carrying capacity of the land in years of need.
I agree with you that Medieval knights had years more training than Napoleonic cavalry. But even they were limited in effect against a trained army. Remember Saladin's famous response to the european calvary charge at the Horns of Hattin: Just parting his army out of the way and letting them run on straight through his formations. After their useless downhill charge, the calvary was spent for the day, unable to climb back up to the high ground and rejoin the main army, or the battle. All they could do was trot on home, unable to fight any further ...and watch their army become slaughtered from a distance.Last edited by innovan; 2007-06-25 at 07:31 PM.
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2007-06-25, 09:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
teratorn, in most of the TBS games that I've played, you give orders to one stack at a time and they immediately do it. I think that the combat feels phased because of one stack entering that hex at a time. I doubt that there will be any surviving elves or gumps in that hex until those three dwagons are croaked.
Last edited by Scientivore; 2007-06-25 at 09:38 PM.
My avatar is a remix that I made of Prince Ansom. Resource credit:
Snag some Erfworld avatars and backgrounds, make some lolerfs and motivators (or demotivators), read my Erfworld fanmix, or check out my latest spotlight on an under-discussed webcomic: Head Trip (Scilight #13)!
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2007-06-26, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
I know the popular Evel Knievel theory but I think the illustrators had someone else in mind when they drew Ansom: (and maybe I'm showing my age here)
Super Dave OsborneLast edited by suraklin; 2007-06-26 at 12:26 AM.
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2007-06-26, 06:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
Precisely because a warlord can avoid engagement, which Jillian was explicitly ordered to do (Erfworld 09, panel 5). Thus if a warlord scout encounters an overwhelming force, she can disengage and fly back to report, which a leaderless unit couldn't do.
As we know, Jillian flippantly chose to ignore these instructions, and was behaving much like a headless unit would--i.e. engaging whatever she encountered. But that's not Ansom's fault. Besides, with Stanley's intel setup, it turned out to be pretty much irrelevant whether she avoided engagement or not--but Ansom hadn't known that, he just assumed that avoiding battle would make her stealthy.
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2007-06-26, 07:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
(Re: why did Jillian go scouting)
She *insisted*, didn't she?
And, iiuic, it's *her* units that have the movement for best scouting.
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2007-06-26, 07:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
She was also given an "abjuration only" hat. That's a protective spell/ability, so it's entirely possible that it was intended to cloak her and her Gwiffon ("the Orlies are expendable. You're not!") from the Eyemancers, so long as she didn't reveal her presence among the stack by attacking anything. The tactical error in doing so was hers, not Ansom's, and as soon as he learned she was doing so he informed Webinar that his own scouting group was likely to become a rescue mission.
Last edited by ChowGuy; 2007-06-26 at 07:40 AM.
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2007-06-26, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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2007-06-26, 07:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
ok abjuration does not always mean protective as it does in DnD.
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2007-06-26, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
Another thing I was thinking about.
In other threads theories about what is or isn't in the middle hex abound. Even some have said it is possible that there are warlords in the ring hexes, or 3 warlords in the 3 dwagon (so far) hex.
I don't think that is the case, because Jillian knew she was completely outmatched (by the stack, not any single dwagon) when she was attacked. Since it was not her turn, she either A) couldn't run away or B) could run away and didn't even knowing she was either toast or headed to the dungeon.
It's entirely possible she knows she won't be killed so sticks around to get some fun in killing what she can. Thoroughly within the realm of what a barbarian would do.
But still, I think zero move means zero, no retreat nothing. Lots of TBS games have the no retreat type of combat.
Also, is it possible the difference between "A" dwagons and "B" dwagons is level? Potentially any of their stats could increase with level, including movement rate. No one from Erfworld categorized the dwagons that way, it was Parson that did that, iirc.Curxzed
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2007-06-26, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
Can a warlord avoid engagement after their movement is expired and when it is not their turn? If so, you can never kill a warlord unit that doesn't want to die. Seems illogical.
It may be that Jillian was captured on her turn because she selected to engage the dragons, but even if she hadn't attacked her movement would eventually have been exhausted and she would be a sitting duck.
I think Ansom knows the setup that Stanley has, he just thinks it doesn't matter. He's got 4 times the amount of troops the attack should require and he uses that as a crutch, not realizing that he's swinging a big stick with a lumbering giant at a (now) dexterous and cunning enemy - although I believe he's in the middle of learning that lesson.Last edited by kunou126; 2007-06-26 at 12:49 PM.
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Re: Erfworld 63, Page 57
Stanley specifically said that Jillian ended turn in the trees, and he pulled together some nearby dwagons to go after her.
I think Ansom knows the setup that Stanley has, he just thinks it doesn't matter. He's got 4 times the amount of troops the attack should require and he uses that as a crutch, not realizing that he's swinging a big stick with a lumbering giant at a (now) dexterous and cunning enemy.