Why is the guy always the wacky on TV?

[Reddish Mage]

I am thinking how a guy, to pick up a girl, probably is better approaching in a fun, weird, and interesting manner than "boring straight same old." Don't know what that has to do with TV though.

I think its just a symptom of Males being the main lead. The normal one is rarely in the leader position.

One example I can think of a straight man is Clark Gregg's Coulson in "Agents of SHIELD," but he's just "the boring middle-aged accountant" on the surface, he has that thing were he acts likes it totally normal when his mid-life crisis car stars flying.

Another is the Men in Black movies, where supposedly J (Tommy Lee Jones) is the lead, but everyone takes Will Smith's (K's) perspective and the billing had more to do with contracts...in fact I think that's always true of Tommy Lee Jones's movies.

No, the argument is that, all things being equal, a flawed female character will attract more criticism than a flawed male character. This creates an incentive to make "risky" characters – which includes anyone likely to be seen as offensive, crazy, or stupid – male rather than female. Key word: risk. If the character is a smash hit, then no-one's going to care what their sex or race or whatever is. It's when things go wrong that you have a problem.

I wonder if the criticism is coming from a female angle or a male angle? I find in real life, a girl is more likely to receive biting criticism from her female friends than male ones, and I wonder how it plays out in Hollywood that a "female receives more criticism."

Also, I think the flawed female character being "at risk" for criticism makes for better television, big controversy makes for big shows. Perhaps another dynamic is at play? Like the fact or perception that shows with male leads produce bigger ratings...

[Vinyadan]

I wonder if the criticism is coming from a female angle or a male angle? I find in real life, a girl is more likely to receive biting criticism from her female friends than male ones, and I wonder how it plays out in Hollywood that a "female receives more criticism."

There is a very vocal feminist critique scene which breaks down internally into various, extremely different views of how female representation should be. I don't think they have much weight, however. The main problem with them is that they make ideological interpretation, but their ideology isn't very widespread, so most won't care about what they say.

As for normal women, I wouldn't know. I would expect them to relate more to a female character and consequently to be more irked if it doesn't work, but I never really put much attention on that.

[The Glyphstone]

Another is the Men in Black movies, where supposedly J (Tommy Lee Jones) is the lead, but everyone takes Will Smith's (K's) perspective and the billing had more to do with contracts...in fact I think that's always true of Tommy Lee Jones's movies.

You meant this in reverse right? TLJ played K, WS played J.

[eggynack]

Bob's Burgers is a good one. Bob is usually, though not always, the straight man to Linda's insanity. I also disagree with the general assessment of late Parks and Rec strictly reducing Leslie wackiness. Season one Leslie is more buffoonish, less competent, and a bit of an ass. The comparison to Michael Scott is an obvious one, and one that was made often at the time. Later Leslie is competent and intelligent, but she's still fundamentally wacky. Just in a different way. Same kinda thing is what actually happened with Andy. He started out as a stupid jerk, and turned into a stupid awesome guy. Really, the thing that limits Parks' ability to hold this title is that most of the characters are crazy. Sure, Ann isn't, and Mark wasn't, but really, more of the comedy comes from different kindsa crazy interacting than from crazy meeting normal.

Also, kinda sorta Death Note. Though that one I'm convinced actually is sexist. Just, like, as a general show. Good show, sure, but my second or third sentence describing it is that it's kinda sexist. Either way, Misa is a bit on the wacky side, though she could also be thought of as being on the insane side, which could be different. Whatever.

To that larger sexism argument, it's a bit harder to justify all of these claims premised on it given how weak the premise is. There are all kindsa works with wacky ladies, and most of them don't attract much criticism. I feel like writers feel safe making their ladies wacky, and that audiences are cool with said ladies being wacky, and that, whether the numbers are equivalent or not, we can see a lot of wacky ladies hanging around in media. I don't even usually see it as weird when I see it show up. Usually, when something out of the ordinary happens, I'm like, "Oh, hey, they're having this weird thing happen. Kudos to them." Here, I typically just watch the show, and say, "Oh, hey, check out this show that's maybe good. I enjoy/don't enjoy it. Look at them other qualities." Y'know? I don't see such a work as progressive.

[2D8HP]

I'm 48 and most of the television I watched growing up were reruns from previous decades, in which sometimes the "wacky" one would be played by a women (Lucy, The Flying Nun), and other times the "wacky" one would be played by a man (Dr. Smith, Gilligan), I don't watch much current television, but even in the '90's I remember both men and women playing "wacky".
Are there really no "wacky" women on TV anymore?
The 21st Century continues to bewilder me.

[Leewei]

I'm 48 and most of the television I watched growing up were reruns from previous decades, in which sometimes the "wacky" one would be played by a women (Lucy, The Flying Nun), and other times the "wacky" one would be played by a man (Dr. Smith, Gilligan), I don't watch much current television, but even in the '90's I remember both men and women playing "wacky".
Are there really no "wacky" women on TV anymore?
The 21st Century continues to bewilder me.

There certainly are women playing goofball characters on TV. The assertion that there aren't, or that goofball guys are overrepresented, seems to be unsubstantiated.

[Donnadogsoth]

There certainly are women playing goofball characters on TV. The assertion that there aren't, or that goofball guys are overrepresented, seems to be unsubstantiated.

I think a better question would be how popular are these respective things? Do audiences prefer wacky men to wacky women or vice versa?

[2D8HP]

There certainly are women playing goofball characters on TV. The assertion that there aren't, or that goofball guys are overrepresented, seems to be unsubstantiated.

That's what I suspected.
Thanks.
So it's sort of tangential, it's also a myth that women in old movies were always "weak" and men were always "strong", while more rare in the 1950's (and to some extent in the '60's), the movies of the '30's and '40's had plenty of "strong" as well as "wacky" women (and "wacky", "strong" and "weak" men).
My grandmother worked in a factory alongside men. My great-grandmother likewise on the farm.
The era when most adult women in the United States were "housewives", was only for a brief two generations after the second World War, if even that.

[tomandtish]

Stargate SG-1 with the main lead Col Jonathan Jack. O'Neill (that O'Neill with two lls, there is another O'Neil with one L and he is not that very funny). O'Neill leads SG-1 a 4 person team with him, Samantha Carter (the wacky nerd, worm-hole astrophysicist, yet captain in the air force), Daniel Jackson the language, religion and archaeologist expert, and Teal'C the human/alien hybrid called the Jaffa.

O'Neill special ability was he used to be in the Special Forces for the Air Force and they used him to do Covert Missions where he had to Parachute behind enemy lines and O'Neill had to do nasty things. In Stargate he is now doing the same job except no parachute and it is instead him walking through a wormhole created via an alien artifiact.

Now O'Neill is often making humorous quips but a large part of it is to show how much he is outside his element, the quips are often smarter versions of the saying we are not in kansas anymore, or are forms of sarcasm at the situation that O'Neill can't change the situation such as he can't punch someone nor order someone who works in the equivalent of the intelligence branch of the pentagon that does not follow his chain of command.

He also mocks the villains since the villains are a form of parasitic snake that inhabit human hosts and pose as human mythological gods with the aid of advanced technology which they use to emulate magical powers.

-------------

Contrast this with Samantha Carter who is actually kinda normal some of the time but gets all wacky when science and technology is involved.

I always got a chuckle about O'Neill "Two L's. There's another one and that guy has no sense of humor!" being played as unintelligent. As a Colonel, unless he received AND KEPT a combat promotion, he's got an equivalent of a Master's degree (Most of them go to the War College). So maybe not as smart as the other three, but definitely not an idiot.

Edit: Actually, in doing some research battlefield commissions (raising an enlisted to an officer) or promotions of officer level rank stopped after the Vietnam War. They can do acting designations in emergencies, but they do not carry after the emergency anymore for officer level. They can be used for non-com ranks since 2009 (at least in the Army and Marines).

[Callos_DeTerran]

Argh, yes, this. I was watching an anime, "History's Mightiest Disciple Kenichi", which is an over-the-top martial arts show. The disciple in question gets attacked by a phenomenally skilled street fighter, and refuses to punch her because she's a girl and it's against his code to fight girls. And I'm sitting there just growling, "You goddamn *******, one of your mentors is a girl, your training partner is a girl, this girl is beating the crap out of you, stop being a sexist dipstick and PUNCH HER".

But no, we're supposed to be so happy that the guy didn't punch the girl. It's a total affirmation of his good nature. NO IT IS NOT, SHOW.

To be fair, the manga doesn't treat that quality of Kenichi's as a positive or negative quality....just as a quality of his that almost gets him killed a few times.

In fact most of his friends and teachers tell him that he's being foolish and his enemies or even just opponents won't give him the same courtesy.

Nor does he not hit them because he thinks he'll hurt them or that they're weaker than he is (he is very aware that the women and girls in his life are badasses in their own right, if not capable of kicking his a as seven ways to Sunday)...he's just not comfortable hitting a girl..eventually he's proficient enough with grappling that he's able to restrain female opponents and end the fight that way by making them give up.

Show never gets that far to my knowledge.

[Aotrs Commander]

I always got a chuckle about O'Neill "Two L's. There's another one and that guy has no sense of humor!" being played as unintelligent. As a Colonel, unless he received AND KEPT a combat promotion, he's got an equivalent of a Master's degree (Most of them go to the War College). So maybe not as smart as the other three, but definitely not an idiot.

Edit: Actually, in doing some research battlefield commissions (raising an enlisted to an officer) or promotions of officer level rank stopped after the Vietnam War. They can do acting designations in emergencies, but they do not carry after the emergency anymore for officer level. They can be used for non-com ranks since 2009 (at least in the Army and Marines).

Ah, Jack is nowhere near as daft as he acts and lets everyone (not sharp enough to see through him) actually think he is. Like somewhere between Grimlock (Marvel comics continuity, who spoke all dumb-like but was actually nobody's fool) and Dave Lister (who is just too lazy to use his brain), Jack prefers to let the others do all the really complex science-thinking and plays it up a bit, since he does like the simple things... (They made him Hammond's replacement in the latter seasons, fer frag's sake!)

[dps]

I'm 48 and most of the television I watched growing up were reruns from previous decades, in which sometimes the "wacky" one would be played by a women (Lucy, The Flying Nun), and other times the "wacky" one would be played by a man (Dr. Smith, Gilligan), I don't watch much current television, but even in the '90's I remember both men and women playing "wacky".
Are there really no "wacky" women on TV anymore?
The 21st Century continues to bewilder me.

The reason Lucille Ball ended up becoming a comedy actress was because she was willing to do "wacky" stuff like take a pie in the face. A lot of actresses of her generation weren't willing to do things like that, because it was felt that it detracted from their physical attractiveness (and let's face it, in Hollywood, actresses, especially those just starting out and trying to make a name for themselves, get judged very heavily on appearance). I don't think the attitude that doing "wacky" comedy might detract from the perceived attractiveness of an actress is as widespread now as back then, but I'd say it still exists. I would point out that many successful comedy actresses from even the last 30 years or so are women who aren't considered conventionally beautiful, or even "pretty" by show business standards--Rosanne Barry, Melissa McCarthy, etc.

[Aotrs Commander]

The reason Lucille Ball ended up becoming a comedy actress was because she was willing to do "wacky" stuff like take a pie in the face. A lot of actresses of her generation weren't willing to do things like that, because it was felt that it detracted from their physical attractiveness (and let's face it, in Hollywood, actresses, especially those just starting out and trying to make a name for themselves, get judged very heavily on appearance). I don't think the attitude that doing "wacky" comedy might detract from the perceived attractiveness of an actress is as widespread now as back then, but I'd say it still exists. I would point out that many successful comedy actresses from even the last 30 years or so are women who aren't considered conventionally beautiful, or even "pretty" by show business standards--Rosanne Barry, Melissa McCarthy, etc.

I would cautiously like to hope that the current generation of folk from stuff like Disney's or Nickelodoen sitcoms might start to erode that a bit more... But then again, it seems a bit like many of the actresses in those tend to hit the point where they are sort-of given the boot for being too old or whatever and go a bit crazy-bonkers and stuff, so...

[snowblizz]

I'm 48 and most of the television I watched growing up were reruns from previous decades, in which sometimes the "wacky" one would be played by a women (Lucy, The Flying Nun), and other times the "wacky" one would be played by a man (Dr. Smith, Gilligan), I don't watch much current television, but even in the '90's I remember both men and women playing "wacky".
Are there really no "wacky" women on TV anymore?
The 21st Century continues to bewilder me.

There certainly are women playing goofball characters on TV. The assertion that there aren't, or that goofball guys are overrepresented, seems to be unsubstantiated.

The original premise was the apparent lack of male/female duos where the man is played straight and the woman is the whacky one as opposed to the many many examples of the "trope" "played straight".

I haven't in detial studied all previous responses but the best inversion of the trope (excuse my tvtropy language here) seems to be Dharma and Greg and The Nanny. According to Jim, Married with Children, My wife and kids, King of Queens, Everybody Loves Raymond all veer towards the trope. Though could be argued to be more of "ensamble cast" type pieces, which it seems is much much much more common for comedies. I'd suggest amybe Will&Grace but despite the titling seems also to be a bit of ensamble piece where really Will is the only sane one and everyone seemed whacky IMHO.

I think the last discussion centered around the seeming occurance where a whacky female would usually be mitigated by others around here (Phoebe is matched by Joey, Elaine is balanced by George same as Grace shares whacky time with Jack) whereas a whacky guy would be front and centre the main premise of the show.

Based on my consumption of 80s 90s and 00s sitcoms I can't fault the OP for asking the question.

[Flickerdart]

How about Veronica in Better Off Ted? Wacky isn't really the word I'd use, but she's definitely the source of many a fine shenanigan. Amy from Big Bang Theory is also a wacky one, and I'd be remiss not to mention the vastly superior IT Crowd where everyone including Jen is wack. Gilmore Girls has pretty much two people who even approach rationality, and both are men (Richard and Luke); everyone else is wackier than wack.

I think there are actually fewer examples than counter-examples. In Brooklyn Nine-Nine the female lead is less wacky than the male lead. The Good Place has a "normal" female lead and its share of wacky dudes and dames. Then of course there's Sherlock, where Mary and Mrs. Hudson are pretty much the only normal people.

[snowblizz]

Amy from Big Bang Theory is also a wacky one,

Well Penny is rather wacky as well. And Wolowitz, and Raj and... and we have an ensemble piece. Of all the characters on TBBT Amy actually strikes me as least wacky. She's not the first one to do something silly, nor the third... in fact she has I'd say become the measuring stick of "do you ppl realise how insane you are behaving anymore?". Ignoring the ensemble cast dynamics both Bernadette and Amy actually play a more traditional not silly roles compared ot the respective partners to bounce off.

[Flickerdart]

Well Penny is rather wacky as well. And Wolowitz, and Raj and... and we have an ensemble piece. Of all the characters on TBBT Amy actually strikes me as least wacky. She's not the first one to do something silly, nor the third... in fact she has I'd say become the measuring stick of "do you ppl realise how insane you are behaving anymore?". Ignoring the ensemble cast dynamics both Bernadette and Amy actually play a more traditional not silly roles compared ot the respective partners to bounce off.

Penny is not wacky in the least. She's self-absorbed, shallow, intellectually uncurious, and self-centered, but not wacky at all. Howard is not wacky either, he just has a mother complex and a love of belts. Raj just likes his dog too much. Amy's no Sheldon but she's close.

[snowblizz]

Penny is not wacky in the least. She's self-absorbed, shallow, intellectually uncurious, and self-centered, but not wacky at all. Howard is not wacky either, he just has a mother complex and a love of belts. Raj just likes his dog too much. Amy's no Sheldon but she's close.

Now you make me curious. What exactly is Amy doing that's considered wacky?