Bard/AT Rogue Level-Stacking Feat

[quinron]

Building on the feats I designed/refined here, I've come up with another feat to try to accommodate our Arcane Trickster who's looking to multiclass into bard:

SONG & SILENCE
Prerequisites: rogue level 3 (Arcane Trickster archetype), bard level 3
You are as talented at sneaking through the streets as you are at shouting your own praises in them, and your ability to skim and steal magic from others is unparalleled.
- You can combine your bard and rogue levels to determine the size of your Bardic Inspiration dice and the bonus damage dice from your Sneak Attack feature. For example, a 4th-level bard/5th-level rogue has the Bardic Inspiration die of a 9th-level bard and the Sneak Attack damage of a 9th-level rogue.
- When you learn or replace new Arcane Trickster spells gained at 8th, 14th, and 20th level, you can choose a spell from any class, so long as you are able to cast it.
- You may choose Intelligence or Charisma to serve as your spellcasting ability for both your bard and rogue spells. Each time you level up in either bard or rogue, you can switch between these abilities.

The first feature is the standard level-stack bonus. I think choosing one or the other from the other two would be best instead of giving both, but what do other people think?

[AmbientRaven]

Honestly I feel this is broken. Classes are deisgned so you can't have the best of both worlds if multiclassing

[JNAProductions]

Agreed. This is far, far too powerful for a feat.

[JBPuffin]

Part of the reason EnderDwarf alone may have commented on the previous set of feats is how contradictory they are to 5e's methodology. Obviously as a GM you're allowed to do as you please, and sharing your fixes is great, but know that these would NEVER be something WotC would condone.

Aside from that, though, this should be fine, especially with the level restriction and the fact that all your multiclassers (soon to be characters...) will probably have one. I'd say "use the higher of" since that's what you really mean, but I think the ability does exactly what you want it to do: glue the character's progression into a single entity.

If you end up doing one of each of these for each combo, don't give them ability score buffs since the synergy's enough of a boost. Your games will be much more player-friendly with these, I can guarantee that. Good luck!

Also, did you give all rangers Improved Companion? That'd be a pretty cool add-on on BM Rangers, to be honest.

[Zman]

This is not terribly balanced an kind of flies in the face of how 5e handles classes and multiclassing.

What about feats that offer rudimentary access to iconic class features?

[quinron]

Firstly, to anyone concerned about design philosophy conflicts: I'm aware that these clash with 5e's concepts, but a) I'm running a rather high-power game due to lucky ability rolls and a large party, b) I'm trying to facilitate ease of access to magic because all my players are interested in it and it's a fairly high-magic setting, and c) I'm restricting multiclassers to having only 2 classes.

What I'm looking to make, as JBPuffin pointed out, is something that makes a multiclassed character feel like a single entity - a true hybrid instead of two classes smashed clumsily together.

With that said, I'm liking the spellcasting ability merge less the more I think about it - if I settled on SA/inspiration level-stacking and expanded AT spell options, how would that balance? As a further nerf, if I reduced the level-stacking to add 1/2 of the opposite class, how would THAT balance?

And yes, JBPuffin, although we only have one player running a ranger and no real interest from the other players, Improved Companion is a standard rule at my table.

[Final Hyena]

Aside from that, though, this should be fine, especially with the level restriction and the fact that all your multiclassers (soon to be characters...) will probably have one. I'd say "use the higher of" since that's what you really mean, but I think the ability does exactly what you want it to do: glue the character's progression into a single entity.

But given how powerful the combination is, it might force players to go down this combo route.

Firstly, to anyone concerned about design philosophy conflicts: I'm aware that these clash with 5e's concepts, but a) I'm running a rather high-power game due to lucky ability rolls and a large party, b) I'm trying to facilitate ease of access to magic because all my players are interested in it and it's a fairly high-magic setting, and c) I'm restricting multiclassers to having only 2 classes.

With that said, I'm liking the spellcasting ability merge less the more I think about it - if I settled on SA/inspiration level-stacking and expanded AT spell options, how would that balance? As a further nerf, if I reduced the level-stacking to add 1/2 of the opposite class, how would THAT balance?

An alternative way to facilitate magic for all is with gesalt, which matches the high power/magic setting.

Anyway reducing the stack to 1/2 might help it. As far as I can see the optimal strat is going 3 rogue to get sneak attacks onto a valor bard who gets better armour shields and multi attack and eventually attack + spells. I suspect the combo is the best option at least very late game.

[JBPuffin]

But given how powerful the combination is, it might force players to go down this combo route.

jinjitsu's made quite a few others - ie Ranger/Druid and Ranger/Cleric - and I imagine that players will simply ask for a feat for their favorite combo rather than copy their fellow's, especially if it's the same game.

If everyone is grabbing magic, I say let the full caster roll; if there's someone who doesn't, half-cast probably is a better idea. Hyena's gestalt idea could work too, but that would require rebuilding their characters.

[quinron]

jinjitsu's made quite a few others - ie Ranger/Druid and Ranger/Cleric - and I imagine that players will simply ask for a feat for their favorite combo rather than copy their fellow's, especially if it's the same game.

This is precisely the case. I'm not designing feats for veterans looking to exploit the system, I'm designing feats for newbies who are interested in multiclassing, understanding the rules better, and being better team players without losing the abilities they're just growing familiar with. Also, they're giving up ASIs or other feats for this, just to get better access to abilities they already have - not to get anything new and different. And like I said, I'm not allowing more than two classes per PC - mostly so I don't end up with multiclass players getting more overwhelmed than they are already.

Also, I think I should make clear that I'm not trying to create content that can be published for the DMs Guild or anything; I'm just looking to balance house-rules that have evolved into full-blown feats or features. If they end up working well and other want to use them at their own tables, that's great, but my main goal is just to keep all my players happy and enjoying themselves without traumatically breaking the game.

[Final Hyena]

jinjitsu's made quite a few others - ie Ranger/Druid and Ranger/Cleric - and I imagine that players will simply ask for a feat for their favorite combo rather than copy their fellow's, especially if it's the same game.

I'm not saying that their is a lack of choices I'm saying that this new choice is too good. Those previous combo feats are far more reasonable than this one.

[quinron]

Okay, as an overhaul to the feature (sans formatting because I can't be arsed):
- Prerequisites: bard 3/AT rogue 3
- add 1/2 rogue level to bard level to determine Inspiration die size
- add 1/2 bard level to rogue level to determine Sneak Attack damage
- Magical Secrets instead of just other wizard spells at rogue levels 3, 8, 14, and 20.

I really want the Magical Secrets to work out; the reason my player is multiclassing into Bard is for the expanded spell list and Magical Secrets, and (barring Epic-level play, which isn't even supported by the books yet) he's already missing out on the AT Rogue 20 expanded list spell and Bard 18 Magical Secrets.

[Final Hyena]

If the focus is on magical secrets would changing the requirement to a lore bard sound fitting?
Also I miss the idea of merging all spells into int or cha.