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2016-05-13, 04:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Working on a new class, found here.
Finished Tzeentch, working on Nurgle, Khorne, and Slaanesh next.I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-13, 04:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Finished it! Give it a look.
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-13, 05:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
"Astartes Body" seems like an awful lot for a first level ability. Acting while dying, poison resistance, disease immunity? It certainly fits the lore, but it seems like an awful lot. Of course, I wouldn't exactly call most Space Marines of any faction 1st level characters...at least not the equivalent of 5e 1st lvl characters...so it's likely just part of trying to get the Chaos Marine up and running early.
Any Fighting Style? Seems appropriate.
"Improved Anatomy" seems a bit weak. Not a huge problem, since between this and Astartes Body, the level 3 seems balanced enough, but generally, level 3 is a big stepping stone in an adventurer's career in 5e, and this feels like a baby step. If this and Fighting style came online a level earlier, and Astartes Body came online at 3, it would flow much more like other classes do, at least to me.
ASIs, pretty standard...to a maximum of 22? Ooh, let's be careful around that...
Extra Attack, standard.
Indomitable, standard.
Greater Anatomy is a nice upgrade, and well-timed.
I would probably specify the damage die from Daemon to a particular level; Cleric and Paladin both grant an extra d8, so that's probably good; otherwise, it gets kinda swingy depending on what kind of weapon you're using. Not a huge issue, though, and the rest of the ability is solid.
Improved Astartes Body is a huge upgrade, but it seems appropriate for the level you get it at; the nonmagic resistance pales in comparison to basically giving the exhaustion sub-system the middle finger.
Perfect Astartes Body seems like it might be a bit much; comparing directly to the Champion ability gained at the same level, it does exactly the same thing, but also grants a variable resistance. Not sure what (or if) to change this, but it's something to take into account if this isn't meant to be directly superior to existing classes.
Tzeentch:
Stacking Soul Blaze with Daemon leads to lots of damage, which should be fun, and the resistances are adding up.
Insubstantial Reality and Daemon of Tzeentch both seem pretty appropriate as well.
Sorcerer...breaks bounded accuracy. I know it's on a WH40K class, I know you don't get super-high-level spells, I know it's to keep things interesting...but please think about this. It doesn't have to go away, but Bounded Accuracy is virtually never broken for spell DCs outside of powerful magic items.
Apotheosis seems a bit much, even for a capstone...at least, by normal class standards. As far as how the class advances, it seems pretty on-par; a bit much, but not too overpowered.
Nurgle:
Apotheosis is the only thing that stands out as "too much" here, and it's the same "a bit much" as the other.
Khorne:
+2 damage for all weapons...+1d8 skirmish...+1dX to Daemon on top of what it normally does...another +2 to damage. Well, it certainly feels appropriate. In fact, I just might want to ask my DM if I can rebuild Sam with this class (Vengeance Paladin is good, but it just doesn't have the bloodlust this does). All seems fairly balanced here; damage, damage, and more damage.
Slaneesh:
You should probably specify if the AC penalty from Rending can stack with itself or not; I imagine a lot of DMs would assume no, while a lot of players would assume yes, and clearing it up can give them an idea of how to go on arguing about it.
Glorious Excess is solid awesome: a reaction attack to getting hurt that makes your next round even better!
Apotheosis, as always, seems a bit much, but it's balanced against the others, so it's cool.
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2016-05-13, 05:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
What would you suggest replacing Sorcerer with? TO avoid breaking bounded accuracy.
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-13, 05:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
I had a few thoughts:
1) Casting and attacking in the same turn. Possibly like the EK, where they can bonus action attack if they cast a spell with their action.
2) If you want to do something different and powerful, but that doesn't break the game's assumptions, how about a feature that...mixes things up a bit? As the Daemon God of change, what if you could change what saving throw was called for? Preferably, of the same strength (calling for a Wisdom save instead of a Dex save against Fireball, for example). It keeps things on the same relative scale, but allows your half-mage to have even more versatility.
3) If you hit somebody, they have disadvantage on saves vs your spells; if you get them with a spell, you have advantage to hit them with attacks while the spell is active on them.
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2016-05-13, 05:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Went with number 2.
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-13, 06:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Isn't skulltaker a little abusable?
Slaying an enemy restores hp=to its HD + your strength.
making it temporary hp would prevent cheese.Spoiler: Homebrew Common CourtesyWhen asking for homebrew critique please respect everyone else's time by;
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2016-05-13, 06:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Modified to Temp HP.
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-13, 06:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
I'm slightly concerned with Astartes Body. I may be wrong as such a mechanic doesn't come up too often, but can't you have a cleric bonus action healing word you every few turns and reset your hp to 0 and your death saves?
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2016-05-13, 06:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Sure, but keep in mind-if you're active, you're a target. Three hits (of any strength) and you die.
You become a lot safer once you get six death saving throws, but all it takes is six arrows to find their mark and you go kaput.I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-13, 06:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Haven't had a chance to look through this properly yet (I'm at work), but I saw AV's comment here:
And thought "hmm... didn't most of the Khornate items/powers in 40k increase attacks rather than strength?" It's been a while since I've engaged with the 40k lore, so maybe I'm mis-remembering or that particular thing has been changed, but in my head, I always imagined the berserkers overwhelming their enemies with furious, lightning-fast assaults, rather than a few mighty blows.
Edit: taking a proper look now.
First up...
"Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to any equipment granted by your background.
a) Chain mail or b) leather armor
a) A martial weapon and a shield or b) two martial weapons
a) A light crossbow and 20 bolts or b) two handaxes
a) A dungeoneer’s pack or b) an explorer's pack"
"can now go for three times as long without food or water."
Astartes Body and Greater Anatomy put together make it very difficult to kill you if you don't want to be killed. It seems like that level of safety might not be much fun, in practice. I agree with whoever said the Daemon damage boost should be 1d8. It's just neater.
I'm feeling the Tzeentch subclass is a bit powerful. Every ability is between 'very solid' and 'amazing' and I think that, putting them all together, you'd end up with someone who could easily outshine everyone else in the party in most situations. Regarding the 1/3 casting, I'd be tempted to make it 'transmutation and one other school'. Lord of Change, after all.
Oh wait, the other subclasses don't get a feature at level 3? I'm not a fan of that.
I love Diseased Offensive. It's everything I'd want in a Nurgle-themed ability.
I still say Daemon of Khorne should be more 'Extra Attack 2' rather than 'Improved Divine Smite'.
Mark of Slaanesh is kind of disappointing, compared to the other Marks. The others are practically equal to feats, but this... isn't. And shouldn't a Slaaneshi character get some kind of accuracy bonus in one-on-one melee duels? I feel there is a missed opportunity here somewhere.Last edited by Ninja_Prawn; 2016-05-13 at 12:26 PM.
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2016-05-13, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Do you still have to roll death saves on your turn?
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2016-05-13, 06:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-13, 06:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
is there a chance we can keep our self as medium creature at paths cap abilities
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2016-05-13, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
You can freely transform back into your humanoid form.
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-13, 06:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
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2016-05-13, 06:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
They still become large.
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-13, 07:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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2016-05-13, 07:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
What is this Ice Giant you speak of?
And if they're already large, then they just stay the same. Not a big deal.I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-13, 08:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
I agree with this. Changing into a daemon is not a fixed boost, it's a transformation into something different.
Besides, best practice would be to assume all playable races are small or medium; anything else must he homebrew, which will come with its own set of rules anyway.Lydia Seaspray by Oneris!
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2016-05-14, 04:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
I commented in detail while reading through your document... but as a last round-up...
I like many of your ideas in many threads and I love the warhammer universe chaos gods...
that said, I deeply dislike OP classes that do not even compare to the base PHB power level... and I think it is just bad design if someone cannot bring down the flavor to the given power level.
What I especially dislike about the classes is:
- there is no drawback for being an obvious monstrosity
- there is no drawback for being a demon that is attuned to a mad and cruel god (where is the randomness and chaos?)
- all of them are crazy OP
- the lvl 20 abilities are just WAAAAY away and unplayable if the whole party is not made of demons.
- most abilities stack and are just more of the same on later levels
- there are no "fluff" abilities, all add "oomph"
- damage per hit / hp / resistances stacking is very powerful and also very boring.
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2016-05-14, 04:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Well, what are the canon consequences? a) you lose your free will, which is almost impossible to implement in D&D, and b) everyone hates you, which is down to the DM and doesn't need to be built into the class. It's like, the PHB doesn't place a mechanical drawback on drow, half-orcs or tieflings, which are pretty monstrous in the context of their setting.
Balance is an issue, of course, but I'd rather tone down the bonuses than introduce specific drawbacks. Unless JNA plans to write classes for other 40k unit types (I'd love to see aspect warriors!), in which case it would be ok to balance them against each other only.Lydia Seaspray by Oneris!
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2016-05-14, 05:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
I think introducing some drawbacks would be a way to allow for some higher power abilities. Drawbacks that I meant is that the benefit could be more randmness based (they are chaos gods after all!) - that some benefits come through mutations that grant something good, but also something bad - like a "giant crab arm" - that allows to make great unarmed attacks, but gives disadvantage on sleight of hand or something alike. (Did you read the warhammer fantasy chaos codex? most champions are bestowed "gifts" from their gods when they are made champions... and again when they become heroes or generals... that would be awesome in D&D...) And lastly, some abilities could have direct impact on social interactions. I do not see why it should not be reflected... they are demons after all and Tieflings and Half-Orcs should be far more accepted by society than full-fledged demons.
When it comes to balance, I totally agree. The classes as of now are not balanced against the PHB classes, but introduce a different level. A DM would need to redo the CR calculations, but if a party consists only of chaos warriors, it should work pretty fine because the balance between the subclasses appears to be solid. Still, I do not know why it should be necessary to raise the balance level and make them incompatible to the rest of the PHB, that's rather sad.
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2016-05-14, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Markoff, I personally feel that most of the class is balanced. It's a little higher DPR than an equivalent Paladin, but with much less burst potential.
So, what specifically (Other than the capstone-I got that, and will drop 2 points from each stat buff) do you feel is overpowered?
And what fluff abilities do you think I could add?I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-05-15, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Alright. I'm going to be putting this on the Dungeon Master's Guild soon (as a pay-what-you-want item, so free PDFs if you don't want to pay), what objections to this class still exist?
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-08-16, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Love the class and plan to use it myself. Just got one question for you though, is this class intended to go with your daemon touched race set? Also, don't know if your interested or not but I took your fall to chaos flavor text and created a chaos table (kind of an insanity table) that I plan to use with this class.
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2016-08-16, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2016-08-16, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
It's mostly done. I took a lot of inspiration from the asha'man class here for it. Havent decided when i would roll for it though. I am thinking about any time combat is initiated or that and the dm could tell the player to roll for it during normal out of combat interactions. the player would roll a d10 and on rolls of 1 they would then roll a d20 to see what happens. The table is at the very bottom. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...?usp=drive_web
Last edited by sephorth; 2016-08-16 at 02:49 PM.
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2017-03-15, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Adeptus Astartes of Chaos-Base Class
Pretty interesting, I like it, I would definitely use this in a campaign.