Tweaks to 4E

[iPlayMindflay]

If this belongs in the Homebrew section let me know and I'll move it there.

I've recently been working on making some tweaks to some of the 4e powers to create a better sense of balance and am wondering if people could take a look at it before I go much further and have to rethink my math.

If would greatly appreciate any feedback that you're willing to give me. If you send me a message I will forward the link to the survey on to you. Thanks in advance!

[Yakk]

I, personally, think putting homebrew in this relatively low-traffic forum is a better idea than using the Homebrew forum, simply because there doesn't seem to be much cross-pollination between 3e/5e homebrewers and 4e homebrewers.

[JNAProductions]

It still probably belongs in the Homebrew section.

Besides, just because most 'brew is 3E or 5E doesn't mean we can't have some 4E!

[MwaO]

If this belongs in the Homebrew section let me know and I'll move it there.

I've recently been working on making some tweaks to some of the 4e powers to create a better sense of balance and am wondering if people could take a look at it before I go much further and have to rethink my math.

If would greatly appreciate any feedback that you're willing to give me. If you send me a message I will forward the link to the survey on to you. Thanks in advance!

I would just point out in advance that if there's a problem with 4e powers in terms of balance it is largely because too many bonuses stack too effectively and bonuses are usually per attack, not per die of attack.

As an example, let's say you have +20 bonuses per attack(which is low compared to say Epic expectations). You make 3 attacks per turn on average, so your total bonus per turn is +60. Someone else makes 1 attack per turn, their total bonus is +20. The difference is +40 - if the W value was say a d12(7 on average in essence), that's nearly +6W's worth of value.

In other words, the guy with 3-1W+Stat's worth of attacks each round with a +20 bonus in total is in essence doing a 9W attack every round...

The way to start off balancing 4e is to stop stacking bonuses from variety of sources and then offering some sort of feat/item option that is per W. That'll fix most powers right away and just leave a few egregious ones. Makes things a lot easier...

[Yakk]

High level 4e already has really flat damage distributions thanks to damage bonus and large numbers of [W]. As this happens, the entire "damage roll" portion of the attack becomes more and more pointless.

Adding bonus-per-[W] makes it even worse.

The problem with multi-taps dominating can be fixed with reduced static bonus stacking, and increased number of [W] on "big hit" attacks.

A 2[W]+2[W] attack dominates over a 7[W] attack; making it 4[W]+4*Bonus vs 7[W]+7*Bonus doesn't "fix" it, except it moves the domination over.

I will admit it would make power balancing a tiny bit easier (in terms of [W]), but it also reduces your damage [W] size to being even less relevant, and the rolling of the dice on damage even more pointless.

Making it choosing between a 2[W]+2[W] vs a 14[W] attack *can* fix it, making it a toss up asto which you prefer.

[MwaO]

High level 4e already has really flat damage distributions thanks to damage bonus and large numbers of [W]. As this happens, the entire "damage roll" portion of the attack becomes more and more pointless.

Adding bonus-per-[W] makes it even worse.

The problem with multi-taps dominating can be fixed with reduced static bonus stacking, and increased number of [W] on "big hit" attacks.

A 2[W]+2[W] attack dominates over a 7[W] attack; making it 4[W]+4*Bonus vs 7[W]+7*Bonus doesn't "fix" it, except it moves the domination over.

In combo, it does. As an example, let's say all bonuses that come from items are item bonuses(including magic weapons). So Armbands of +4 conflicts with the +3 Longsword conflicts with the Shard of +3. They're all roughly equivalent in value. What's not equivalent in value is the item that gives +2/W(or I). And feat bonuses all stack - vulnerability from a feat is a feat bonus to damage too. Did I mention the feat that gives +2(at Paragon) to each W? I'm also assuming Inherent Bonuses here.

So the 2W+2W attack ends up losing about +3 bonus worth of damage and the 7W attack gains about +18. A +3 swing doesn't mean much, but a +21 is a jump. More importantly though, not only does the 2W+2W lose those bonuses, but so does every off-action 1W or minor action 1W too. It isn't killer - the builds employing those options will still do very good damage, but it gives a big boost to the PCs who pick big W or I damage options.

[iPlayMindflay]

I am currently planning to detach damage bonuses from magic items from [W] and place it in 'modifier damage' ie anything that has multiple attacks only applies modifiers (and bonus damage from feats etc) to a specific (determined by power) damage roll and the other attacks are flat damage dice.