[BitPR²] OOCVII: In Soviet Russia, Zanpakutou Names YOU!!

[Frozen_Feet]

Sarah doesn't actually have to explain them anything. I just like writing out their bemused reactions.

[Frozen_Feet]

Oh hey, got an idea for "one terror". Basically amounts to Mikael stopping by, having some dialogue with Shinji, and leaving. Would that fit?

[KnightDisciple]

Okay, unless Strawbs wants to be super-duper-extra cruel to Chuck that's his bit wrapped. I'll give others a chance to post a thing or 3 before I toss Masaru in (fight a monster with a dragon, WHAT COULD GO WRONG???).

[Kuroimaken]

Oh hey, got an idea for "one terror". Basically amounts to Mikael stopping by, having some dialogue with Shinji, and leaving. Would that fit?

I'm not sure it would. Right now Shinji can't talk.

But perhaps more to the point, this dream is related to his foretelling ability, so it follows much of the same rules it does (one of which is that spiritual beings above his "weight class" can't have their futures foretold).

[Frozen_Feet]

Not being able to talk doesn't stop Mikael from hearing you, and not being able to have his future foretold doesn't mean he can't be part of a dream.

[Kuroimaken]

This one does. Shinji LITERALLY cannot have visions of any kind that involve people above his spiritual weight class. There's a reason for that beyond the fact it would require me to know what each player of big bad is planning on doing and not spoiling the surprise, but no one asked about it ICly.

(Granted, that's a pretty nebulous category as of right now, but still.)

[Frozen_Feet]

If you expand "unable to foretell future" to "unable to have visions of any kind", then sure, Mikael's out, but why would you do such a thing?

[KnightDisciple]

Just as a reminder, Frozen, the black flames Ancalagon exhales are, ultimately, fire. Unusually colored, controllable by Masaru, really hot and tenacious, but fire. They're not a 1:1 parallel/translation of the Amaterasu flames from Naruto, so if Mikael's body isn't being burned/consumed at all, they'll sputter out sooner or later (which is even explained, if not that specifically, in the character write-up).

I was annoyed with them not affecting him [Mikael] because it makes Masaru look like a chump, not because they're hotter than the center of the Sun.

So unless Mikael's doing some sort of tomfoolery of "Fullbringing" the flames to give himself a fire aura (which isn't really possible, since it's not an object, and the only "soul" involved is basically Masaru himself anyways), it might cling a bit but eventually it'll sputter out.

[Frozen_Feet]

I know. That's part of why he's trying to get higher. Low oxygen means they die out faster.

[Draken]

Gonna answer here anyway. Von Geister's eye has no special mechanics to speak of. It is for all intents and purposes a potent, continuous binding spell. It does rely on biology, however, most of what he does depends on it.

Either way, the description in that post is enough for me to dial the end of this particular scenario.

Edit: Also, must admit I am not a fan of how hard cero got worfed after its initial introduction.

[Frozen_Feet]

I can understand that, but really, what did you expect? Mikael's first opponent in the game was a Cero specialist and he had to learn how to do that trick to survive. The only thing missing was Mikael throwing the Cero back, which has been something of a trump card of his.

EDIT: going to wait for Naito's reaction before continuing.

[Rater202]

Can the guy in question even have visions that don't foretell the future?

[Kuroimaken]

Can the guy in question even have visions that don't foretell the future?

He can. He can actually tell what's happened in the past, though that typically doesn't come up.

Also, Frozen, not sure if I understand the question. Basically, the idea is that people above Shinji's spiritual "weight class" make visions so uncertain as to be completely unreliable, so he pretty much just blocks them out. From the point onward where one such entity is involved, the exact ramifications are pretty much impossible to foretell (Shinji's power is based on following patterns after all).

[Rater202]

He can. He can actually tell what's happened in the past, though that typically doesn't come up.

Also, Frozen, not sure if I understand the question. Basically, the idea is that people above Shinji's spiritual "weight class" make visions so uncertain as to be completely unreliable, so he pretty much just blocks them out. From the point onward where one such entity is involved, the exact ramifications are pretty much impossible to foretell (Shinji's power is based on following patterns after all).

So it's not actual pre-or-post cognition, it's a simulation based on preexisting facts, but it can't modle people who are a certain level stronger than him.

[Frozen_Feet]

The point is that Mikael doesn't need to be part of the future being foretold to be part of the dream, and your consideration of whether that could happen has no reason to be based on Mikael's super weight class.

EDIT: that is what Tamaki said to Shinji but he claimed he was mistaken.

[Kuroimaken]

You're kinda twisting me up in a knot, here.

The dream is occurring because of his ability. That ability has restrictions which also apply to the dream.

Mikael can't appear in the dream simply because he's too powerful for the ability to include him.

EDIT: There's a reason none of his fudgings with the future included Von Geister or Mikael, both in and out of character, after all.

- - - Updated - - -

So it's not actual pre-or-post cognition, it's a simulation based on preexisting facts, but it can't modle people who are a certain level stronger than him.

Not quite.

Picture each possible action of a person as a string. Each time they make a decision, that string splits into two or more possible directions. Shinji's ability allows him to follow that string of possibilities to its conclusion. But this isn't mere "projection", he's reading into things that actually will happen (in the case of reading into past events he simply reads that line backwards).

Sufficiently powerful people have large but blurry strings because their actions have too much potential to affect the world. So they wreak havoc on everyone else around them, too, making them that much harder to read.

[Rater202]

Okay, I get it now.

[KnightDisciple]

Going to let strawberryman respond in Mortal World before I make a post of Masaru freaking the **** out at Von Geister releasing Segunda Etapa.

I would imagine basically every alarm possible is going off in Soul Society at this point...

[Rater202]

...I should probably be paying attention to the rest of the game, shouldn't I?

[Draken]

...I should probably be paying attention to the rest of the game, shouldn't I?

Eh. Very unlikely to affect your character until she manages to return to the mortal world, so that is a toss-up.

[Rater202]

Okay, I guess...Probably at least going to be paying more attention.

[TherianTheorist]

That took me entirely too long.

[Frozen_Feet]

Better late than never. That was a great post. I look forward to future interactions with Torahiko.

@Rater: it's hardly necessary. Following everything will make some things easier in the long run, but at least I'm willing to give in-character summaries where appropriate

@Kuroi: I really need to know if Sagarosso and Margrave get out before finishing the scene inside the castle.

Regarding the dream: in case you've noticed all visions incorporating Mikael have two layers to them. Mikael doesn't have to exist in the first layer (the bad future) to impart information to Shinji from the second, and any restrictions on the first layer's content don't apply on the second. If you can't get this, then it's no wonder Tamaki makes no sense to you.

I won't push it more than this. Even if Mikael makes no appearance, this OOC discussion has given me many more ideas for the future.

[Kuroimaken]

...the thing is, I'm not making much sense out of what you're saying, is all.

EDIT: Also, Sagarosso and Margrave ARE stepping through. But I asked you a question that went unanswered. Do they see any Arrancar as they step through the layers?

[Dorizzit]

That question has been answered in and out of character.

[Frozen_Feet]

Quoting myself from up thread:

No. They are rather deliberately keeping themselves hidden behind its folds even as they adjust it. You can think of it as an airlock, with two of the Hollows creating the extra walls necessary to keep everyone unexposed.

Plus, there is no light there.

[Kuroimaken]

OK, thanks.

[KnightDisciple]

Regarding the dream: in case you've noticed all visions incorporating Mikael have two layers to them. Mikael doesn't have to exist in the first layer (the bad future) to impart information to Shinji from the second, and any restrictions on the first layer's content don't apply on the second. If you can't get this, then it's no wonder Tamaki makes no sense to you.

This doesn't make sense, in a frustrating way.

I mean, it's okay to be obtuse or mysterious IC. That's how stories work sometimes.

But if we're struggling out-of-character, when trying to write a story alongside you, doesn't it make more sense to work with us and help us understand? It'd be one thing if you were writing this yourself, but you're not, you're writing it alongside us.

Plus, you talking about "all visions incorporating Mikael have two layers" seems a lot like you're telling Kuroimaken how his power works?

[Frozen_Feet]

No, I'm referencing how past visions involving him have worked. I managed to find an easier-to-understand explanation for Kuroimaken in the interim. Namely, a dream within a dream, a second vision interposed on the first.

I'm not trying to be cryptic here. I've been using different words to try and get the same basic idea across: you can dream of a person for reasons unrelated to seeing the future, so there is no logical reason for restrictions of future-seeing to influence that. I can understand if there's a narrative reason for leaving Mikael out like which strawberry noted, but those are a different thing.

[Kuroimaken]

Basically, if Mikael was going to actually DO something in the dream itself, that'd be a no-no. But remembering him within the dream is okay. It's indirect enough that it doesn't affect his powers.