[BitPR²] OOCVII: In Soviet Russia, Zanpakutou Names YOU!!

[Frozen_Feet]

The way we've been playing it, Fullbrings either cease to function (Alexandra, Thomas?) or are subsumed by Hollow abilities (Future Katsuo).

[Kuroimaken]

Both Alex and Thomas were made into Hollows by VG, no? With Katsuo the issue is related to going berserk during Hollowification (his powers are still the same as they've ever been, namely insane strength and durability and the ability to break free of any bindings).

[Rater202]

I did ask a question about what was going on in the rest of the game.

[Kuroimaken]

I did ask a question about what was going on in the rest of the game.

Well, lessee.

-Soul Society is trying to figure out how to annihilate the Cult without horrible possible consequences because just killing VG won`t do.

-The Mortal World crew is dealing with the fallout of the ZHE invasion, and with potential setups for the endgame of their own.

-Las Noches is rebuilding after they got attacked and is about to receive a visit from a relief party led by Setsurou and Arianna. (Speaking of: anyone seen Kerfuffle?)

[Draken]

Both Alex and Thomas were made into Hollows by VG, no? With Katsuo the issue is related to going berserk during Hollowification (his powers are still the same as they've ever been, namely insane strength and durability and the ability to break free of any bindings).

Alexandra was something along the lines of a hollow possessing her own artificially sustained corpse for the later half of her life, and then descended into full hollowdom after Von Geister's release, with caveats.

She and Thomas, were/are fundamentally just common arrancar. Their artificial nature uplifts them both significantly above the level of mere non-menos class arrancar and the fact that they were deliberately designed while still in the living flesh makes them both significantly more stable than even menos class arrancar, but there is no fundamental difference. They are both quite dead in the sense that they are purely spiritual beings. They were both in a sense intermediate designs for Von Geister's (current) final product, the Fiends that arise from mortals in a symbiosis with his children. Inevitably they will perish and be reborn and become Fiends in their future incarnations. And then die and be reborn and become whatever his next grand design is. All living things change, only life itself remains unchanging.

[Ammutseba]

@Rater202: What's this "Heart's Desire" thing listed on Sarah's abilities for?


For the fullbringer, I was thinking... Nuala Byrne, a sort of collector. Her fullbring matured at a young age, making her a spiritually aware observer, privy to shinigami/quincy vs hollow events and conflicts et cetera for most of her life. Practically obsessed with the glory and glamour of this invisible world, she's studied them all from a position of relative safety, and decided that she wants it all for herself. She's gone out of her way to learn about the nature of her own abilities, of those like her, and those others. The nature of her own personal fullbring and her high skill in object affinity allow her to "craft" different foci by acquiring artifacts with rich memories, almost as if she had a fullbring with multiple different effects.

[Kuroimaken]

Alexandra was something along the lines of a hollow possessing her own artificially sustained corpse for the later half of her life, and then descended into full hollowdom after Von Geister's release, with caveats.

She and Thomas, were/are fundamentally just common arrancar. Their artificial nature uplifts them both significantly above the level of mere non-menos class arrancar and the fact that they were deliberately designed while still in the living flesh makes them both significantly more stable than even menos class arrancar, but there is no fundamental difference. They are both quite dead in the sense that they are purely spiritual beings. They were both in a sense intermediate designs for Von Geister's (current) final product, the Fiends that arise from mortals in a symbiosis with his children. Inevitably they will perish and be reborn and become Fiends in their future incarnations. And then die and be reborn and become whatever his next grand design is. All living things change, only life itself remains unchanging.

So they were never Fullbringers to begin with. Makes the point that much simpler.

[Draken]

So they were never Fullbringers to begin with. Makes the point that much simpler.

I didn't say that.

[TherianTheorist]

@Rater202: What's this "Heart's Desire" thing listed on Sarah's abilities for?


For the fullbringer, I was thinking... Nuala Byrne, a sort of collector. Her fullbring matured at a young age, making her a spiritually aware observer, privy to shinigami/quincy vs hollow events and conflicts et cetera for most of her life. Practically obsessed with the glory and glamour of this invisible world, she's studied them all from a position of relative safety, and decided that she wants it all for herself. She's gone out of her way to learn about the nature of her own abilities, of those like her, and those others. The nature of her own personal fullbring and her high skill in object affinity allow her to "craft" different foci by acquiring artifacts with rich memories, almost as if she had a fullbring with multiple different effects.

And is the intended use of this power to copy others' abilities though the memories in those artifacts?

Because if so, I actually find it kind of funny. Three power-copying fullbringers in one game, wonder what would happen if they were all in the same place at once.

[Rater202]

@Rater202: What's this "Heart's Desire" thing listed on Sarah's abilities for?

Fullbringers are basically human/hollow hiybrids.

Thus, their unique powers are similar to the unique powers of hollows.

If you remember the lost agent arc, Ginjo(who at this point has no reason to lie becuase he thinks he's Ichigo's friend) explains that a soul's heart becomes it's mask, and that a hollow's powers were ultimately a corrupted manifestation of their heart's greatest desire.

Likewise, a Fullbringer's power is tied back to their heart's desire.

Sarah's greatest desire is to never be hurt again, so her personal fullbring manifests as a suit of armor that can protect her from almost anything.

@Cardrian, three?

[TherianTheorist]

To differing degrees, but I thought three. Sarah has her energy absorption, which is leading to the development of hollow-like abilities, Torahiko has the 'Envy' theme, and is going to model several abilities off quincy, and Nuala's description of 'wants it all for herself' and versatile fullbring implies she may have it too.

Just an observation, probably wrong, but I got a quick laugh at the idea.

I've never really spelled out Torahiko's Heart's Desire, but the intent should be pretty obvious now, even if the exact wording will be a tiny bit of a reveal.

[Rater202]

To differing degrees, but I thought three. Sarah has her energy absorption, which is leading to the development of hollow-like abilities

Not quite. The energy absorption doesn't copy anything, and it's entirely probably that, already being a hollow hybrid, she'd eventually figure out Cero or Garganta on her own eventually, and that's just generic things. Her amro becoming more hollow like from absorbing hollow like energy just facilitates it, it's not fully related.

Rather, evolution through absorption is somewhat imitative-she might get a sword from absorbing enough Shinigami energy, but the sowrd won't be a Zanpakuto and probably wouldn't have any of the properties of even a sealed Zanpakuto...Or at the least, that'd be a seperate tree of upgrades.

She'd be more likely to become resistant to Kido, however, because that would alter her armor instead of complimenting it.

Like wise, she's currently developing a thicker, spikey, scary hollow looking versions fof her armor, complete with clawed gauntlets. This is because she's been feeding on hollow energy, and hollows tend to have natural armor, sometimes have thick carapaces, and usually have some kind of natural weapon such as spikes or claws. When that's done, her fullbring my start reinforcing her body in a way similar to, but not quite the same as an arrancar's hiero, or maybe her armor will get better at absorbing energy directed at her in the form of a cero or bala?

The amount of energy needed per evolution stays about the same, but I'm not sure how much that is.

[Frozen_Feet]

All Fullbringers have potential for power transfer. If all of the Fullbringers got together, they could theoretically swap their Objects around and go to town.

[TherianTheorist]

I just typed up a full response, and lost it.

[Frozen_Feet]

Your IC post?

[Razade]

I just typed up a full response, and lost it.

There should be a button on the bottom left of the text box to retrieve it because Giants has a auto-save function.

[TherianTheorist]

There should be a button on the bottom left of the text box to retrieve it because Giants has a auto-save function.

Didn't work. Retyping what's needed.

Your IC post?

Yeah.

Okay, replacement post should be up now.

[Ammutseba]

And is the intended use of this power to copy others' abilities though the memories in those artifacts?

Because if so, I actually find it kind of funny. Three power-copying fullbringers in one game, wonder what would happen if they were all in the same place at once.

Essentially, yeah! :V It's a low-and-slow acquisition, though, since she knows that the longer an object goes without being transformed via fullbring, the more powerful its effect will be. Her personal fullbring is, at its core and natural state, a backpack. A single-strap tactical backpack/messenger bag hybrid, based on the magical crane skin bag of Fionn mac Cumhaill. There are serious limits, of course.

Through her expertise in object affinity, though, she has secondary and more reliable roles as a warrior, using or a cheerleader, evoking the soul, the potential, the hidden desires... of allies and their equipment. All the things that manifest bringer light, you know. She'll be very shiny.

[Frozen_Feet]

@KD: if you want Turiel to interact with Sarah, now'd be a good opportunity. I hinted at them being close to his district earlier.

[Kuroimaken]

Yeah, okay, just no.

I'm sorry Frozen. I've been trying to be as nice and civil about this as possible, but the fact of the matter is you've been undercutting every effort to move the scene in Russia in any direction but that which you want. I could take a combination of Caja Negacion making a barrier big enough to swallow a castle, but you don't get to move it too and completely invalidate any effort towards moving or dispelling it as well. I WILL pull Shinjinanigans if I have to in order to stop this - I don't want to, but I will.

I think at the VERY least you owe us an explanation of where you're going with this ("you'll see" is not an acceptable response here). Either that or you have to provide that box with a weakness of SOME sort. It's bad enough that none of the characters involved had a chance to escape when it was cast and no one was warned that was going to happen, but the way this has been going you're eliminating any relevance the other characters have towards the scene. Quite frankly, you know better.

[strawberryman]

I have to agree here, I am really just tired of things being extended further and how they've been going has just been making it harder and harder to even get the motivation to post in it.

[Frozen_Feet]

?

The castle's going where Chuck wanted it to go.

I'm undercutting everyone else because the conflict's already over.

As far as weaknesses go, Sagarosso's and Margrave's tricks would've worked, if one of them hadn't spilled the beans.

I'll note Caja Negacion is not actually impenetrable in canon - the only time we see it used, the one inside it (Ulquiorra) breaks out at a completely different location (that's the basis for it moving) sometime later. No explanation how or why, just happens.

I haven't dwelling it because by their own admission, the characters on the scene think it's impenetrable or something they don't really know about. From those premises, it doesn't really make sense for them to break it.

[strawberryman]

No, see, it is going there because of shenanigans. Everything that anyone has done, most notably Momoka, Shinji, and Masaru, has been made irrelevant such that it is a wonder they are even there because once again, you get to make the final call.

[Frozen_Feet]

Uh, yes, the Hollows and their barrier are my character, so I get to make final call on what sways them. That's basic "defender's benefit" on these forums and it's why I don't bother critiquing Draken when he throws up perfect defenses against my attacks.

The salient point is that my call is that Chuck won the argument, and that's thre reason why the others are undercut; an "attack" already "killed" the opponent, other "attacks" are wasted. I am under no obligation to make everyone's character feel useful.

[Kuroimaken]

Not to mention the fact that when Ulquiorra breaks out of it in canon there is no connection whatsoever to it being potentially moved at the whim of its creator.

The thing is, if they wanted to work WITH the people in the scene, they could probably do better, and if they don't, there has to be SOME mitigating factor to the ability itself so it isn't something they can't work with. Because otherwise you simply create a scenario in which everyone's actions but your characters' do not matter, and that is awful.

[KnightDisciple]

I did ask a question about what was going on in the rest of the game.

Well, lessee.

-Soul Society is trying to figure out how to annihilate the Cult without horrible possible consequences because just killing VG won`t do.

-The Mortal World crew is dealing with the fallout of the ZHE invasion, and with potential setups for the endgame of their own.

-Las Noches is rebuilding after they got attacked and is about to receive a visit from a relief party led by Setsurou and Arianna. (Speaking of: anyone seen Kerfuffle?)

And if you want/need more details or background, Rater202, please feel free to ask, we'll try to help.

So they were never Fullbringers to begin with. Makes the point that much simpler.

I won't speak for Alexandra, but Thomas had a Fullbring. He had a Tome that he Fullbringed for Paper Controller/Rune Caster shenanigans. His Arrancar powers center on using Sound.
Conceptually, either way, it's about the power of Words. Though his Aspect of Death is Conviction (he's crazy-devoted to his cause). But he's moved from his Words needed to be written on paper to have effect, to just being spoken (combination of sound-based powers, voice-based "hypnosis"), and now being able to cast Kido (speaking his spells instead of writing them).

No, see, it is going there because of shenanigans. Everything that anyone has done, most notably Momoka, Shinji, and Masaru, has been made irrelevant such that it is a wonder they are even there because once again, you get to make the final call.

What strawberryman is saying. I've spent this whole scene feeling phenomenally frustrated because it seems and feels like there's literally nothing Masaru can do that matters.
Masaru is there because the logical course of action for Chuck to do when he felt Von Geister show up was "call for help", and the Gotei isn't going to ignore that call for help.
(And don't you dare try to tell me to "discard my feelings" or anything like that like you've done in past discussions of this nature.)
Mikael and the other Arrancar present no-sold his attack(s) (by just ignoring them/using them as a melee buff, or by conveniently being able to dodge things).
Masaru's presence is pointless, and that's an incredibly frustrating experience as a player in this game.

I effectively feel like I've been Rule-0'ed by a DM who's more interested in showing off his GMPC.

Uh, yes, the Hollows and their barrier are my character, so I get to make final call on what sways them. That's basic "defender's benefit" on these forums and it's why I don't bother critiquing Draken when he throws up perfect defenses against my attacks.

The salient point is that my call is that Chuck won the argument, and that's thre reason why the others are undercut; an "attack" already "killed" the opponent, other "attacks" are wasted. I am under no obligation to make everyone's character feel useful.

You're not even trying to work with the fairly thorough and elaborate efforts Kuroi and Strawbs have put forth to try and get out characters into the Castle, even (like, as a compromise point, let them access it, then move it). It's just one long string of LOL NOPE.
Never mind that we have 2 experts of barriers and space-time present, one of whom can tap into ley lines. Hey, you've got more than 2 Arrancar, so LOL MORE POWER.

As for Chuck "winning" the argument, not really? Doesn't feel like it to me. He talked mainly to Torahiko, because there was clearly little point in talking to your character. I explicitly had him ignore your Arrancar as much as possible, for both mine and Chuck's case.

As for "no obligation to make everyone's character feel useful", my response would be why we should feel an obligation to make your characters feel useful or more powerful? Why do your characters trump ours? Sincere question here.

[Rater202]

They make a valid point, Frozen.

[strawberryman]

It might not be your obligation to make every character feel useful, but it sure is sort of a standard agreement that you try not to make things actively unfun for other players. The events you've brought to the table have been things that are a bog to interact with from personal experience, or have been so out there as to be ignored.

I found the Nanashi event highly irritating and pointless, and besides the fact just served as an interruption to other things I and other people were doing. And you only put a stop after it dragged out as long as you felt like, or they accomplished whatever they were going for despite everyone's effort. It was something that was plain irritating and uninteresting to get involved with, personally.

And the same can be said with the barrier. Defender's Benefit should apply when narratively appropriate, in this case it was just used to funnel things towards the way you wanted. And now it's irrelevant, because one of your characters, again, is making the final call, just like the Nanashis deciding to surrender after a disruptive romp.

The crux of the matter is that in all of the events you've put into this, I have honestly never felt the cooperation. Hell, even Draken buckled on his plot when complaints arose, and we came up with a compromise.

[Frozen_Feet]

@KD: there is a reason I tell you to ignore your feelings, and that's because you've ended up feeling useless and frustrated when on my end, I've bent over backwards to involve your character in something.

This happens because we don't value the same things about our characters.

Pretty much every time you say one of your characters doesn't matter, I'm of the opposite opinion. Your last post illustrates that near-perfectly. I say Chuck won an argument, you can't see how. Let's walk through this: Chuck was unconvinced by any of the Arrancar's arguments and managed to be more convincing to Torahiko than the Arrancar. As a result, Torahiko decided to follow Chuck's advice, and because of the Arrancar is there to help Torahiko, it yielded and chose to take them to the location Chuck mentioned.

There. That's a win. That solves the conflict inside the castle and gets Chuck where Chuck wants.

I didn't feel like dwelling on all the other attempts to solve the same conflict because narratively it's a waste of time. Still don't. Already explained that part. As far as Caja Negacion goes, the lot of you are beating a dead horse.

As for Masaru? Look, I had Mikael pretty much spell out what Masaru's actions mean to him. To me, his decision of whether to attack or not to attack Mikael was a dramatic breakpoint, and I barely got started with it when you started complaining. That bears repeating: You started complaining about a scene not yet done. I thought a direct statement that Mikael is indeed burning would be enough to carry you through it, but you didn't take even that at face value. The result is that you've pretty much killed any sense of suspense or fun I could have writing this thing.

For now, I'll just keep going through the motions. Narratively, the best thing for Masaru, Shinji, Momoka etc. Is to forget about the barrier & rejoin Chuck at his point of destination and then continue to those of their plotlines that have nothing to do with Mikael or his minions.

EDIT: ninja'd by strawberry. I think what he said makes my last paragraph fairly ironic.

Here's the thing: my plotlines are not all-important to me and I hate it when people who transparently dislike them end up prioritizing them over theirs.

F. Ex. When Naito and Mikael were having a scene on Fuji, it gave me an aneurysm when Kuroi decided to have Shinji stop pursuing Katsu and go there instead. Did it make sense, in-character? Maybe, but as I laboriously tried to explain to Kuroi, I maintain he could've come up with an equally in-character reaction which would've let him advance Katsuo's plot instead.

Remember: I already basically isolated Mikael from the rest of the game once when it looked like no-one was interested in dealing with him. I'm not averse to doing that again. I get more joy playing side characters like the four Arrancar misfits because they don't trigger this much dumb from you.

[KnightDisciple]

You know what, I'm going to leave most of that alone because it really comes down to playstyle difference (and perspective differences) that I'm not sure we'd ever be able to reach full understanding on the matter.

1.) I'm going to politely request that you refrain from telling me to "ignore" or "discard" my feelings. But even if you don't, your "advice" conflicts with that given by actual experts in my life, and I know whom I trust to give more helpful psychological insight.
2.) Telling us that we've had "dumb triggered" is unhelpful and unnecessary for actual constructive resolution.
3.) Again, my characters are ultimately only involved in this current situation because of a plot point you directly presented to me. From that point forward I've done my best to write out what I feel is the most honest and realistic actions and words for my characters in the situations they've found themselves in.

Frankly, if you had just let Shiniji, Momoka, and company get into the castle, they would have already left. If you'd not immediately isolated us all, we would have left. This wouldn't have been an issue.

Also, Masaru, Momoka, Shinji, etc. don't know for certain where everyone's ending up, what with them having zero communication with the people in the castle, and no way to really track them until they end up there. So they can't leave for said destination until the Castle reaches that point.

EDITKAI: @Rater202, I'm waiting on you to respond in SW before I respond to @strawberryman.