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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    I'd say that an angry Muse counts as some sort of trap - and I think Madwa would agree. "Something feels really off" as Madwa sneaks past them and tries to get whatever it is she wanted (not necessarily the lantern).

    Wondering how Aldin and Jim moved from stage left to stage right as quckly as Madwa would be moving in order to set up the set piece final panel.

    Also wondering where Dimo is right now. If Madwa needs killing quickly and without remorse - well, that's what a Jagermonster is for.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    So, the muse knows something about Agatha's necklace. Is it because it's the Heterodyne trilobite or because it doesn't have wings yet that she's sure the Storm King they're talking about is the wrong one? Does this mean Gil may be the Storm King?

    Also, is it wrong that I want Prende to meet Martellus and tell him he's not who he thinks he is? In really crushing terms?

  3. - Top - End - #93
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
    Also, is it wrong that I want Prende to meet Martellus and tell him he's not who he thinks he is? In really crushing terms?
    You assume he would care... they were willing to with a fake girl and kill kestle, the muse is just another Kestle to be controlled or eliminated.

    The real Storm king could be Gil or could be some other strangeness such as original Storm king planning on his return by sticking his mind in someone elses body like Lucy.
    Last edited by multilis; 2016-06-01 at 12:10 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
    So, the muse knows something about Agatha's necklace. Is it because it's the Heterodyne trilobite or because it doesn't have wings yet that she's sure the Storm King they're talking about is the wrong one? Does this mean Gil may be the Storm King?

    Also, is it wrong that I want Prende to meet Martellus and tell him he's not who he thinks he is? In really crushing terms?
    I think she's probably surprised to find the Heterodyne working to help the Storm King, instead of, you know, trying to conquer all of Europa. Don't forget that the original Storm King was most famous for curb-stomping Heterodyne forces as the leader of a coalition of houses/nations, and was also backstabbed (metaphorically only) by his Heterodyne wife.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Yup. The main reason behind the muse's suspicion is that she inherently mistrusts the Heterodynes. She probably never heard of the Heterodyne boys.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by multilis View Post
    You assume he would care... they were willing to with a fake girl and kill kestle, the muse is just another Kestle to be controlled or eliminated.

    The real Storm king could be Gil or could be some other strangeness such as original Storm king planning on his return by sticking his mind in someone elses body like Lucy.
    As Tarvek put it...

    THIS! WAS! NOT! MY! PLAN!


    I think Tarvek would be pretty sad to learn that he wasn't the Storm King. While he's a lying snake, he definitely seems to believe in the whole Storm King mythology and the belief that having the Storm King ruling is what's best for Europa. Zola and Gil's debate over the Pax Wulfenbach made it pretty clear that not everybody is happy with it, and it was pretty much a case of "he's a tyrant, but a pretty benevolent one and this is better than anything else".

    Also, given the stink over resurrection I think having some long-dead guy brought back via mind transfer might not work as well as you might think. The nobles would likely reject the ancient Storm King in a way that they wouldn't for his legitimate descendant.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
    So, the muse knows something about Agatha's necklace. Is it because it's the Heterodyne trilobite or because it doesn't have wings yet that she's sure the Storm King they're talking about is the wrong one? Does this mean Gil may be the Storm King?

    Also, is it wrong that I want Prende to meet Martellus and tell him he's not who he thinks he is? In really crushing terms?
    1) It is the Heterodyne trilobite, and it is hardly surprising that the muse recognizes it. The Heterodynes were rather important in the time of the storm king as well.

    When she says that she sees that times have changed and upon noticing the sigil says, "but how much", it is hard not to recall that the story of the storm king Andronicus Valois is not just the story of uniting Europe and fighting the Heterodyne hordes, but also the story of Euphrosynia Heterodyne. (See the opera and Martellus' jäger interview.)

    So here's a female wearing the Heterodyne trilobite claiming to want to rescue a trapped storm king... brings back memories, I'm sure. The Heterodynes were never good news for the storm king.

    2) That she says categorically that their storm king is nothing of the sort could mean many things. The simplest being that the muse considers the storm king to be somebody who fulfills a specific claim that she knows has not been fulfilled. (Item in the lab, effect that she could detect but haven't, one of the other muses proclaiming him as such and telling the other muses so, being appointed by Van Rijn and getting a Duracell bunny to treasure, or whatever, etc.)

    Knowing the Foglios track record, I would not be at all surprised if it was not that simple.
    Last edited by Deliverance; 2016-06-01 at 03:47 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    I'm firmly planting myself in the "Prende is refusing to accept a Storm King on the say-so of a Heterodyne" camp on this one (which judging by the success of my last few predictions on muses pretty much guarantees the "Tarvek is not really the Storm King" guys are right).

    Why would Prende necessarily be more correct than Tinka and Otilla, who are much better informed than she is, having actually met the King-to-be in person?

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Don't forget Moxana. After all she is the Muse that is fully intact and knows the most. I wonder why we haven't seen her and Tinka though?
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  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    The real Storm King doesn't eat sugar with his porridge.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by Deliverance View Post
    Knowing the Foglios track record, I would not be at all surprised if it was not that simple.
    I agree with what everyone is saying about the significance of the Heterodyne trilobite, and don't know how complex this might be. However, I thinking that one additional possible complication that hasn't been mentioned yet is that in the opera, the Storm King vowed to search for Euphrosynia "forever." I think forever was meant to be taken literally, so Prende probably thinks or at least hopes that the true Storm King would still be the original one. Perhaps her idea is that the Storm King might have survived by putting himself in the bodies of followers or maybe she might have thought that he could time-travel and possibly take the guise of a "new" Storm King?

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    And so much for Madwa being able to get away. Prende is a VERY good trap.

    I wonder why the Lantern must not be moved? There is still what appears to be a brain in that bubble, being sustained by the Lantern. Andronicus Valois? THAT would explain why she's sure Tarvek isn't the real S.K.!

    Agatha hasn't given her name or title yet. That may make a difference. Otilia apparently knew there would be a second Heterodyne girl someday and had made plans to keep her safe, as the Storm King had commanded. Those plans being to kill her and guard her crypt for eternity; a kind of flexible interpretation of her orders. Prende may be operating under similar orders and not be going to give up the Lantern until the rightful owner comes for it.

    To judge from her words, van Rijn apparently hoped he could learn the secret of immortality from the Muse of Time. Oops.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    I forgot to say that it the Lucrezia / MoT hybrid assumed that Van Rijn was looking for the secret of immortality for himself, but I think there is a good chance that he was looking for it for the sake of the Storm King. It could be that he was looking for a way to bring the Storm King back somehow. I also think that there is probably some parallels between how Bill disappeared and how the Storm King disappeared. I don't think the public ever learned what happened to the Storm King and I don't think there is a Storm King gravesite, is there? Granted, in the Baron's story, the Storm King was turned into a wolf and killed, but that wasn't a real Storm King story.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Yes, it does rather seem that between how many characters remark on the rarity of Heterodyne girls, Otilia's comment about keeping Agatha safe "for the world" and also the comment about the Mongfishes "ensuring" an appropriate heir, there's more here than meets the eye.

    The thing I keep coming back to is Klaus Barry Heterodyne; not knowing the current Stardate as it were it's hard to figure out exactly but I find the idea that little Klaus died in an accident to be a bit suspect. We're pretty sure I think that Gil is in fact the Baron's son (with the Queen of Skifander, possibly?) but the curious bit is that the Geisterdamen's last visit from Lucrezia was with "the holy child" - even their statues show it.

    This whole Storm King thing is much bigger than it looks: the Mongfishes created an appropriate Storm King; why not an appropriate Heterodyne girl as well?

    I think there's a serious "time war" aspect to all of this, and you're right, the "search forever" line is just too neat to not be foreshadowing.

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Tom View Post
    Yes, it does rather seem that between how many characters remark on the rarity of Heterodyne girls, Otilia's comment about keeping Agatha safe "for the world" and also the comment about the Mongfishes "ensuring" an appropriate heir, there's more here than meets the eye.

    The thing I keep coming back to is Klaus Barry Heterodyne; not knowing the current Stardate as it were it's hard to figure out exactly but I find the idea that little Klaus died in an accident to be a bit suspect. We're pretty sure I think that Gil is in fact the Baron's son (with the Queen of Skifander, possibly?) but the curious bit is that the Geisterdamen's last visit from Lucrezia was with "the holy child" - even their statues show it.
    If you REALLY blow up the panel where Carson finds his son the night Castle Heterodyne was attacked, you can see there's a child's arm, and a man's hand holding the child's arm, sticking out from under the fallen slab. Carson wouldn't lie to Agatha about what he found, so either Klaus Barry is no longer with us, or there's chicanery on an unbelievable scale going on here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Tom View Post
    This whole Storm King thing is much bigger than it looks: the Mongfishes created an appropriate Storm King; why not an appropriate Heterodyne girl as well?

    I think there's a serious "time war" aspect to all of this, and you're right, the "search forever" line is just too neat to not be foreshadowing.
    This assumes Lucrezia was in position to engineer Agatha. Every clue we've got points to something REALLY bad having happened to her to turn her into the Other, and it's not clear how badly messed up she was afterwards. Klaus apparently enhanced Gil; the Mongfishes enhanced Tarvek. But Agatha may be completely natural.

    We'll have to wait and see.

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Tom View Post
    This whole Storm King thing is much bigger than it looks: the Mongfishes created an appropriate Storm King; why not an appropriate Heterodyne girl as well?
    Isn't that what Zola was/is?

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    I agree with what everyone is saying about the significance of the Heterodyne trilobite, and don't know how complex this might be. However, I thinking that one additional possible complication that hasn't been mentioned yet is that in the opera, the Storm King vowed to search for Euphrosynia "forever." I think forever was meant to be taken literally, so Prende probably thinks or at least hopes that the true Storm King would still be the original one. Perhaps her idea is that the Storm King might have survived by putting himself in the bodies of followers or maybe she might have thought that he could time-travel and possibly take the guise of a "new" Storm King?
    I think it looks likely that the Other is a composite of Lucretzia and another, maybe the original Storm King, maybe something from outside time, maybe someone else.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  18. - Top - End - #108

    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    but the curious bit is that the Geisterdamen's last visit from Lucrezia was with "the holy child" - even their statues show it.
    That would be Agatha. Presumably, Barry stole her away from the Geisterdamen and brought her 'home' to Adam and Lillith.

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Come to think of it, the librarians kidnapped Tarvek and were bringing him back to the library with Gil in pursuit. Will Prende help protect the library from Gil's attack? Maybe Tarvek will prove himself to her somehow? Agatha may have to explain why she said that he was frozen in time, though. Or maybe the kidnappers will drag Tarvek to the vault and be surprised to find everyone else already there.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    I don't think that Prende will be able to do much to stop Gil. After all he takes lightning bolts to the face and it only stuns him. The voltage Prende would put out would only tickle a little. Not to mention Higgs, Bang and a clank that well be a "decedent" of the Muses that was built for heavy combat. As a note the person that most likely has custody of Tinka and Moxana would be Gil. He might even have gotten Olita out of the time stop.

    However you do bring up a very good point about the Librarians and Tarvek.
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  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    I wasn't expecting Prende to be all that effective of a fighter. I remember Violetta saying that the muses were built more for teaching. I was just thinking of it as being a possible way to break the current stalemate. Given that the library defeated the MoP, it probably has powerful defenses of its own.
    Last edited by eschmenk; 2016-06-02 at 10:13 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    I wouldn't be surprised if Gil knew something of those defenses though. He did visit the Library when he was in Paris before. And right now Gil is rather angry which means he might well stop being nice and polite.
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  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    I wasn't expecting Prende to be all that effective of a fighter. I remember Violetta saying that the muses were built more for teaching. I was just thinking of it as being a possible way to break the current stalemate. Given that the library defeated the MoP, it probably has powerful defenses of its own.
    I suspect the muses' combat abilities were merely kept secret and rarely used, kept in reserve for important occasions.
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  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    I suspect the muses' combat abilities were merely kept secret and rarely used, kept in reserve for important occasions.
    "They were made to be teachers, not fighters. So their combat abilities are limited."
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  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    "They were made to be teachers, not fighters. So their combat abilities are limited."
    "You think a Spark wouldn't weaponize their mechanical teachers? Oh, you're adorable!"
    Well, "limited" could just mean that (direct) combat isn't the Muses' primary purpose. Of course they are still dangerous enough that a sane(er) person would classify them as super weapons.
    Last edited by Kantaki; 2016-06-02 at 11:49 AM.
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  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    "They were made to be teachers, not fighters. So their combat abilities are limited."
    Well - limited fighting as in bodyguard/assassin, as opposed to army/shocktrooper.
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  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    "They were made to be teachers, not fighters. So their combat abilities are limited."
    "You think a Spark wouldn't weaponize their mechanical teachers? Oh, you're adorable!"
    [EDIT: When I wrote this, I didn't realize that the Spark in the second quote probably corresponds to Van Rijn. I assumed it would be someone who learned from the muses, so I didn't think they would have been able to weaponize them.]

    I think the quotes from the comic are more authoritative than those. "Everyone wanted to study them. But Van Rijn's work is so delicate that even a master was more likely to destroy it than learn anything. So the remaining muses escaped into hiding." So, apparently not even sparks could successfully modify them, no matter how much they might have wanted to do so. Also: "The muses were toys. They weren't heavy duty fighting clanks. Otilia had some fancy sword flourishes she performed for visitors, but she was actually built for teaching, not ripping people to shreds." The latter was Violetta talking, but she learned that from Tarvek, who I think knew what he was talking about when it came to the muses.
    Last edited by eschmenk; 2016-06-02 at 05:15 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    I think the quotes from the comic are more authoritative than those. "Everyone wanted to study them. But Van Rijn's work is so delicate that even a master was more likely to destroy it than learn anything. So the remaining muses escaped into hiding." So, apparently not even sparks could successfully modify them, no matter how much they might have wanted to do so. Also: "The muses were toys. They weren't heavy duty fighting clanks. Otilia had some fancy sword flourishes she performed for visitors, but she was actually built for teaching, not ripping people to shreds." The latter was Violetta talking, but she learned that from Tarvek, who I think knew what he was talking about when it came to the muses.
    True enough but Tarvek did make the Anevka clank from Tinka's design. While it's entirely possible that her lightning attacks were added by Tarvek. It would make a form of sense for a spark to make what he was designing, for what amounts to the king of lightning, capable of emitting electricity.
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  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    Also: "The muses were toys. They weren't heavy duty fighting clanks. Otilia had some fancy sword flourishes she performed for visitors, but she was actually built for teaching, not ripping people to shreds." The latter was Violetta talking, but she learned that from Tarvek, who I think knew what he was talking about when it came to the muses.
    This reminds me of the ship from Ringworld, dubbed the Lying B***ard by Louis Wu, for the number of innocent-looking tools with innocent uses that just so happened to become deadly at the extremes of their capabilities. But I doubt that's what's happening here, strictly speaking.

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

    Spoiler: Another hypothesis for Prenda's comment
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    Van Rijn saw the Muse of Time on many occasions in the area where he ended up building his vault. She often had a different appearance, and was unaware of her other visits.

    In short, the Muse of Time was visiting from different possible futures.

    The technology at work here - the lantern - manipulates time. More specifically, it appears to nullify all of the sparky influence on time, allowing it to follow its natural course.

    The lantern is placing Prenda and the vault outside of time as Agatha and the others are experiencing it. When she says things have changed, she's talking about their timeline. Agatha is not actively possessed by The Other in this one, but she still is wearing her sigil to hold her influence at bay.
    Last edited by Leewei; 2016-06-02 at 02:03 PM.

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