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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkmate-Pony View Post
    I'm sorry if I interrupt this very intricate discussion. But I want to ask Thanqol if the Arts and crafts section of this forum:

    Can I just post my rpg related art here for people to see it? Because I love sharing that kind of stuff, but I don't know if I'm allowed.

    The Arts and Crafts section seem so barren of visual art I was wondering if there was a catch.
    Naw, there's no catch, post away!

    There used to be a bunch of copycat drawthreads but mine's the only one still going because I am the only one with WILLPOWER (even if I'm super way behind on digital art these days)

    I'm actually super keen to see what you got!
    Roses are red,
    Violets are blue,
    Omae wa mo shinderu

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Day 2107: Flight Sim

    Speaking of behind behind.

    I finally gave Krita a crack and, uh, woah. It's a no fooling art program with all the bells and whistles. This is good, though, I think it's what I need for right now.

    As a more general update I've been thinking a lot in terms of abstract shapes and lines. I've been doing a lot of pages which are strange cool arrangements of circles and sharp angles. I think I want to start doing some experiments with that stuff in colour; I was pushing it back a bit because I wasn't sure mypaint had the suite for it but Krita definitely does. I really like a lot of Krita's decisions; the hotkeys are a bit weird and I'll have to change 'em to get what I want but the colour/brush wheel on rightclick is great.

    This is just me getting to grip with the brushes and basics but it's also a bit of the lines and circles thing I was talking about.

    Links
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2017-03-06 at 05:45 AM.
    Roses are red,
    Violets are blue,
    Omae wa mo shinderu

  3. - Top - End - #243
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Naw, there's no catch, post away!

    There used to be a bunch of copycat drawthreads but mine's the only one still going because I am the only one with WILLPOWER (even if I'm super way behind on digital art these days)

    I'm actually super keen to see what you got!
    What is a copycat draw thread? It sounds petty

    and what do you mean still going? Do people tell you what to draw on demand?

    as for my work, I'm finishing off this one piece I have going before I post.
    Last edited by Checkmate-Pony; 2017-03-06 at 06:37 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #244
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    There used to be a bunch of copycat drawthreads but mine's the only one still going because I am the only one with WILLPOWER (even if I'm super way behind on digital art these days)
    Hey, I'm still going! No claiming my skull just yet. (Although yes, I realize now I haven't actually posted anything in long time.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    I finally gave Krita a crack and, uh, woah. It's a no fooling art program with all the bells and whistles. This is good, though, I think it's what I need for right now.
    It took you this long!? Pretty sure we told you about it years ago. Check out this page if you want some more premade brushes. I'm a fan of the Meemodraws and Cazu ones. That said, just playing around with the brush engine is pretty fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkmate-Pony View Post
    What is a copycat draw thread? It sounds petty

    and what do you mean still going? Do people tell you what to draw on demand?
    Thanqol and some others do this thing where they draw every day. Thanqol was the first to do it on this forum, so any other daily threads on here usually are inspired by him.



    Also Amish, sign me up for .exe deliveries. Or if you have a git repo that'd be cool too. You're using Unity?
    Devoted artificer of the church of Scorching Ray.

  5. - Top - End - #245
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    drawing every day sounds like fun, but I don't always have ideas, I'd need help for that. I'll try at least to be regular.

  6. - Top - End - #246
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Are you all MLP fans? (I know that's kinda an obvious question)

  7. - Top - End - #247
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcrafter View Post
    Hey, I'm still going! No claiming my skull just yet. (Although yes, I realize now I haven't actually posted anything in long time.)
    *sharpens knives, licks lips* ill wait

    It took you this long!? Pretty sure we told you about it years ago. Check out this page if you want some more premade brushes. I'm a fan of the Meemodraws and Cazu ones. That said, just playing around with the brush engine is pretty fun.
    Thanks! Yeah I'd mostly been getting into sync with MyPaint so I didn't want to move onto Krita until I had a better handle on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkmate-Pony View Post
    Are you all MLP fans? (I know that's kinda an obvious question)
    I have been known to watch the show.

    And write elaborate heartbreaking shipfics or run multi-year roleplaying games in the MLP setting and spend literal years posting in the MLP thread and wear the shirts and have a dozen plushies infesting my bookshelf...
    Roses are red,
    Violets are blue,
    Omae wa mo shinderu

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    *
    I have been known to watch the show.

    And write elaborate heartbreaking shipfics or run multi-year roleplaying games in the MLP setting and spend literal years posting in the MLP thread and wear the shirts and have a dozen plushies infesting my bookshelf...
    I have been known to watch it as well, use to draw a lot of stuff related to it.

    But never managed to be part of any RPGs (which is the story of my life pretty much, trying to play RPGs and never be able to, leaving me today as nothing but a vengeful super villan)

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkmate-Pony View Post
    Are you all MLP fans? (I know that's kinda an obvious question)
    Yup. I don't watch the show quite as much anymore, but I write stories and read other ones. And have been playing in at least one pony-related game for a good few years now.

    I'm going to a convention tomorrow! It runs Friday-Sunday, and I'm taking Monday off to recover. Suffice to say, nothing's getting done this week. Much-needed vacation is much-needed.
    I'm developing a game. Let's see what happens! Complex.

  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Day 2120: Didn't Know

    Just some doodling. Really enjoying this Krita brush!

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    Last edited by Thanqol; 2017-03-19 at 05:07 AM.
    Roses are red,
    Violets are blue,
    Omae wa mo shinderu

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Between the convention and grieving, I haven't got much done on the game in the past few weeks. But I should have the next milestone up and ready this Thursday. Just gotta tweak a few visual indicators.

    I also had a thought: It would be a really nifty bit of polish to write some flavor text for each Technology/effect combo. Maybe a sentence or two to shed some light on why Nanomachines make forging Influence Links so darn difficult. I think it'd be a nice touch, and a good chance to show off the game's stylings, though it would be a ton of work.

    How goes the progress on Country Bonuses 2.0?
    I'm developing a game. Let's see what happens! Complex.

  12. - Top - End - #252
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate View Post
    Between the convention and grieving, I haven't got much done on the game in the past few weeks. But I should have the next milestone up and ready this Thursday. Just gotta tweak a few visual indicators.

    I also had a thought: It would be a really nifty bit of polish to write some flavor text for each Technology/effect combo. Maybe a sentence or two to shed some light on why Nanomachines make forging Influence Links so darn difficult. I think it'd be a nice touch, and a good chance to show off the game's stylings, though it would be a ton of work.

    How goes the progress on Country Bonuses 2.0?
    What are you working on?

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate View Post
    How goes the progress on Country Bonuses 2.0?
    I HAVE DONE NOTHING for a variety of boring reasons but let's get to it right now!

    There are a bunch of missing slots but I think this was a great idea overall; it's really let me bring home the interconnected world sense I've been aiming for. This is a first pass, there's still a lot of work to be done, suggestions welcome.

    Note that anything marked (ban) loses that effect when it goes up to tier 2. If it doesn't have that it keeps the effect.

    NORTH AMERICA

    USA

    TIER 1
    International Port, Nuclear Deterrent, Superpower
    TIER 2
    Output: Army, Executive, Agent
    TIER 3
    Laboratory

    Canada

    TIER 1

    TIER 2
    Output: Army
    TIER 3
    NORAD: enemy armies can't move into any linked countries.

    Mexico

    TIER 1
    Border Closures (ban): -50% USA output, international port
    TIER 2
    Output: Executive
    TIER 3
    NAFTA: +25% USA output

    Cuba

    TIER 1
    Missile Crisis: If controlled by the enemy, USA loses Nuclear Deterrent
    TIER 2
    Output: Agent
    TIER 3
    Medical Tourism: +25% disaster recovery for linked countries.


    EAST ASIA

    China

    TIER 1
    Superpower, Nuclear deterrent, international port
    TIER 2
    Output: Army, executive, agent
    TIER 3
    Laboratory

    Vietnam

    TIER 1
    The Jungle is Neutral (ban): China suffers a 1-Agent Insurgency
    TIER 2
    Output: Agent
    TIER 3
    Solidarity: Enemy armies can't move into any linked country.

    Japan

    TIER 1
    Financial Schlerosis (ban): -25% output for all linked countries, International Port
    TIER 2
    Output: Excecutive
    TIER 3
    Laboratory

    Korea

    TIER 1
    Hot War: If controlled by a foreign power, China loses Nuclear Deterrent
    TIER 2
    Output: Army
    TIER 3
    Digital Hub: Add +1 development level to each linked country



    OCEANA

    Phillippines

    TIER 1
    Economic Ruin: 1/2 development speed, International Port
    TIER 2
    Shipping Interdiction: Enemy ocean travel to any country linked to this one takes 2x as long
    TIER 3
    Shipping hub: Additional international port


    Australia

    TIER 1
    Economic Ruin: 1/2 development speed
    TIER 2
    Laboratory
    TIER 3
    Lucky Country: Economic Ruin is removed from all regions in Oceana

    New Zealand

    TIER 1
    Economic Ruin: 1/2 development speed
    TIER 2
    Output: Executive
    TIER 3
    Green Energy: Any linked countries lose Environmental Ruin

    Singapore

    TIER 1
    Economic Ruin: 1/2 development speed
    TIER 2
    Global Espionage: Can teleport an agent stationed in this country anywhere on the map
    TIER 3
    Output: Executive



    WESTERN EUROPE



    Federal Britain

    TIER 1
    International Port, Nuclear Deterrent, Brexit: Britain does not count as part of Western Europe
    TIER 2
    Output: Agent
    TIER 3
    Brentry: Britain and all countries linked to Britain gain +25% output

    France

    TIER 1
    Nuclear deterrent, International Port
    TIER 2
    Culturally Influential: Tech spread between any countries linked to France is doubled
    TIER 3
    Cultural Harmonization: All countries linked to France gain the effects of all technologies present in France

    Spain

    TIER 1
    Economic Ruin, International Port
    TIER 2
    Colonial Hegemon: If controlled, provides control over all linked tier 1 countries
    TIER 3
    Latin Trade: All South American countries count as adjacent for the purposes of forming links.

    Sweden

    TIER 1
    International Port
    TIER 2
    International Aid: If developed, 2x development speed and tech spread to all linked tier 1 countries
    TIER 3
    Nordic Union: Linked Eastern European countries count as being in Western Europe


    Germany

    TIER 1
    Bureaucratic Crisis (ban): European countries take 2x as long to form links
    TIER 2
    Regional Power: Base of 4 links. Can instantly form or break links
    TIER 3
    EU Federalization: All countries in the Europe region are permanently linked to each other.

    Italy

    TIER 1

    TIER 2
    Output: Army
    TIER 3
    Laboratory



    EASTERN EUROPE



    Poland

    TIER 1

    TIER 2
    Output: Army
    TIER 3
    Output: Agent

    Baltics

    TIER 1

    TIER 2
    Gurilla War: Target adjacent country suffers a one-agent Insurgency
    TIER 3
    Fortress: Agents may not enter this country

    Balkans

    TIER 1
    Banking Crisis (ban): Europe takes a 25% development penalty
    TIER 2

    TIER 3



    Russia

    TIER 1
    Nuclear Deterrent, International Port
    TIER 2
    Output: Army
    TIER 3
    Sphere of Influence: Armies can conventionally engage in countries linked to Russia

    Ukraine

    TIER 1
    Permanent one-agent Insurgency, Colonized State (ban): Russia gets +50% development
    TIER 2
    Output: Agent
    TIER 3
    Retake Crimea: Russia loses International Port, Ukraine gains International Port


    Turkey

    TIER 1
    International Port
    TIER 2
    Hermit Kingdom: Can sever influence links to this country instantly and for free
    TIER 3
    Gateway to Europe: Western Europe cannot form new port links




    MIDDLE EAST


    Iraq

    TIER 1
    Conflict Zone: Armies may conventionally engage each other in this country.
    TIER 2
    Blitzkrieg: Armies gain +1 movement speed
    TIER 3
    Practical Experience: All armies take 50% less penalty from negative techs


    Syria

    TIER 1
    Conflict Zone: Armies may conventionally engage each other in this country.
    TIER 2
    Output: Agent
    TIER 3
    Laboratory


    Algeria

    TIER 1
    Conflict Zone: Armies may conventionally engage each other in this country.
    TIER 2
    Output: Army
    TIER 3
    Output: Executive

    Egypt

    TIER 1
    International Port
    TIER 2
    Suez Canal: Gain +1 International Port
    TIER 3
    Shipping Interdiction: Enemy ocean travel to any country linked to this one takes 2x as long

    Iran

    TIER 1
    Nuclear Deterrent
    TIER 2
    Regional Power: Base of 4 links. Can instantly form or break links
    TIER 3
    War With Saudi Arabia: All countries in the Middle East count as Conflict Zones.

    Saudi Arabia

    TIER 1
    International Port
    TIER 2
    Exports Terror: Every turn an Insurgency hits one linked country, chosen at random
    TIER 3
    Colonial Hegemon: Provides control over all tier 1 countries this country is linked to

    Israel

    TIER 1
    International Port, Nuclear Deterrent
    TIER 2
    Staging Area: Armies may travel to this country via sea even without an influence link
    TIER 3
    Output: Agent



    CENTRAL ASIA

    Pakistan

    TIER 1
    Rogue Nukes: Superweapons can be deployed in any country linked to this one
    TIER 2
    Exports Terror: Every turn an insurgency hits one country this country is linked to, chosen at random
    TIER 3
    Peace Declared: Pakistan loses the previous two effects

    Afghanistan

    TIER 1
    Graveyard of Empires: Permanent one-Agent Insurgency
    TIER 2
    Output: Agent
    TIER 3


    India

    TIER 1
    International Port, Nuclear Deterrent
    TIER 2
    International Commerce: +1 Executive Speed
    TIER 3
    Output: Executive

    Thailand

    TIER 1
    International Port
    TIER 2
    Trade Hegemon: All trade links may be international
    TIER 3
    Global Nexus: It does not cost a move to pass through this country




    SOUTH AMERICA

    Brazil

    TIER 1
    Environmental Collapse
    TIER 2
    Laboratory
    TIER 3
    International Port


    Columbia

    TIER 1
    Environmental Collapse
    TIER 2
    Global Nexus: It does not cost a move to pass through this country
    TIER 3
    International Port


    Peru

    TIER 1
    Environmental Collapse
    TIER 2
    +1 Agent Speed
    TIER 3
    Output: Agent


    Venezuela

    TIER 1
    Environmental Collapse
    TIER 2
    International Aid: If developed, 2x Development speed and tech growth to all linked countries
    TIER 3


    Argentina

    TIER 1
    Environmental Collapse
    TIER 2
    Output: Executive
    TIER 3
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2017-03-27 at 07:07 PM.
    Roses are red,
    Violets are blue,
    Omae wa mo shinderu

  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkmate-Pony View Post
    What are you working on?
    A strategy game! Thanqol and I have formed a lightly-shadowed-but-not-quite-yet-dark pact to make a video game. You can read more about it in this thread, starting around page 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    I HAVE DONE NOTHING for a variety of boring reasons but let's get to it right now!

    There are a bunch of missing slots but I think this was a great idea overall; it's really let me bring home the interconnected world sense I've been aiming for. This is a first pass, there's still a lot of work to be done, suggestions welcome.
    Goodness! That's a lot of words done really quickly.

    I'll read this over today, mull it over, and post any suggestions/thoughts I have later.
    I'm developing a game. Let's see what happens! Complex.

  15. - Top - End - #255
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    I have no useful feedback at the moment, but I wanted you to know that Pakistan is now my favorite country we've made. It's so awful and terrible and frustrating. I love it.
    I'm developing a game. Let's see what happens! Complex.

  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate View Post
    A strategy game! Thanqol and I have formed a lightly-shadowed-but-not-quite-yet-dark pact to make a video game. You can read more about it in this thread, starting around page 4.
    I hope I can at least get playtester credits.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate View Post
    I have no useful feedback at the moment, but I wanted you to know that Pakistan is now my favorite country we've made. It's so awful and terrible and frustrating. I love it.
    Korea is the best country in the list. Thanqol managed to summarize all of Asian history in one entry.
    School Fox by Atlur

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    Oscar Wilde Writer & Poet (1891)

  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    So getting all that down on paper is a great feeling; now I've got a far more effective framework to think through how to structure all of this. I think Western Europe is the gold standard right now: It's a deeply connected and synergistic region with unique advantages and vulnerabilities.

    Here are some other thoughts:
    - This game is consciously accepting the political and economic ideological line of The Economist. Trade is good, development is good, the world is interconnected and governments have a role to play along with markets. These are basic assumptions that will inform the mechanics.
    - This is tempered by the paranoid style that comes with accepting the Shadowrun-esque premises we have made r.e. megacorporations, president-bots, etc. A reminder that the goal was to do cyberpunk from the perspective of the megacorporations so the economic assumptions of the above point will be viewed through a somewhat cynical eye. Far left or communist thought exists as a distraction and inconvenience to these duelling behemoths of money and power.
    - I feel like there is a place for a global environment mechanic but I'm torn on the execution. Currently the hypothesis is have a global climate scale and have certain countries with the 'environmental collapse' tag be particularly vulnerable to its impact. This would basically be exporting the South American regional mechanic to a core global system and give me another mechanical widget to hang bonus/penalties off. I feel like this system is demanded by the ideology of the game and it'd be missing a key part of its message if it wasn't there.
    - Another thing demanded by the game's premises is that terrorism is either A) A conspiracy by a rival megacorp or B) Solvable with money. No individual or private group genuinely poses a threat to the global hegemonic systems without being a catspaw of a rival hegemony.
    - I'm really pleased with what tiers do for making tall vs wide competitive choices.


    Korea is the best country in the list. Thanqol managed to summarize all of Asian history in one entry.
    This is definitely the intention and what I'm trying to do for all countries! The weakest spots are the ones where I don't know as much of that region's history or economic developmental arc.
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2017-03-28 at 06:52 PM.
    Roses are red,
    Violets are blue,
    Omae wa mo shinderu

  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    - This game is consciously accepting the political and economic ideological line of The Economist. Trade is good, development is good, the world is interconnected and governments have a role to play along with markets. These are basic assumptions that will inform the mechanics.
    I think Britain hits this one most strongly. Somebody playing the game is gonna see that and think that the designers had, like, opinions man.
    School Fox by Atlur

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    Oscar Wilde Writer & Poet (1891)

  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I think Britain hits this one most strongly. Somebody playing the game is gonna see that and think that the designers had, like, opinions man.
    I may change the name from a political term as loaded as Brexit/Brentry (European reintegration; this is 50 years in the future and there's no need for ideological sloganeering). But the basic conviction is going to be there. This is a piece of media meditating on current trends in geopolitics, diplomacy and international economics. Its goal is to communicate the view from the top through its mechanics.


    Incidentally, I have decided exactly what the core piece of promotional cover art is going to be. Two men in black suits, ties, and sunglasses - MiB spook look. With their right hands they're shaking hands. With their left hands they're holding guns to each other's heads. They're both smiling, and not cold corporate smiles, there's an edge of playful warmth to both of them - it's almost romantic. Underscored with the tagline IT'S COMPLEX.
    Roses are red,
    Violets are blue,
    Omae wa mo shinderu

  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    I like that Country-related zones are being leaned on a little more. Gives us another lever to play with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    I may change the name from a political term as loaded as Brexit/Brentry (European reintegration; this is 50 years in the future and there's no need for ideological sloganeering). But the basic conviction is going to be there. This is a piece of media meditating on current trends in geopolitics, diplomacy and international economics. Its goal is to communicate the view from the top through its mechanics.
    When I was going through a spell of asking myself "why am I making this game and not another game?" this was one of the reasons I came away with. I'm glad that was the intent, and we're on the same page there.

    I also agree that avoiding current, charged terms for these things is a good idea. It'd feel weird and out-of-place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Incidentally, I have decided exactly what the core piece of promotional cover art is going to be. Two men in black suits, ties, and sunglasses - MiB spook look. With their right hands they're shaking hands. With their left hands they're holding guns to each other's heads. They're both smiling, and not cold corporate smiles, there's an edge of playful warmth to both of them - it's almost romantic. Underscored with the tagline IT'S COMPLEX.
    Excellent.
    I'm developing a game. Let's see what happens! Complex.

  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Amish, will it be hard to have something like Germany's "permanent links in Western Europe" power programming-wise? It requires you override the base functionality in the units, which, depending on how we step up complexity here, could leave some corner cases that are easily missed, but I do think it's a neat power, so it might be worth the time anyway.
    School Fox by Atlur

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    Oscar Wilde Writer & Poet (1891)

  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Amish, will it be hard to have something like Germany's "permanent links in Western Europe" power programming-wise? It requires you override the base functionality in the units, which, depending on how we step up complexity here, could leave some corner cases that are easily missed, but I do think it's a neat power, so it might be worth the time anyway.
    Relatively easy to do. I have separate objects to represent the links, and I can store something like a "Permanent" variable in them. When a link is Permanent, and an Executive tries to break the link, the action won't go through.
    I'm developing a game. Let's see what happens! Complex.

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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Blargh. Caught some sort of cold. Progress may be slow as I recover.

    This has been a really bad month for making games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    - I feel like there is a place for a global environment mechanic but I'm torn on the execution. Currently the hypothesis is have a global climate scale and have certain countries with the 'environmental collapse' tag be particularly vulnerable to its impact. This would basically be exporting the South American regional mechanic to a core global system and give me another mechanical widget to hang bonus/penalties off. I feel like this system is demanded by the ideology of the game and it'd be missing a key part of its message if it wasn't there.
    I wholeheartedly agree. It fits with the ideas behind the game, and it fits in the general feel of the game too. I once heard the corporate response to environmental preservation likened to a game of chicken; the longer certain players wait before acting on it, the more profit they make, but the greater they risk blowing everything up. If that doesn't fit in this game somewhere, I don't know what does.

    No ideas as to the implementation yet.
    Last edited by TheAmishPirate; 2017-03-29 at 10:46 PM.
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree. It fits with the ideas behind the game, and it fits in the general feel of the game too. I once heard the corporate response to environmental preservation likened to a game of chicken; the longer certain players wait before acting on it, the more profit they make, but the greater they risk blowing everything up. If that doesn't fit in this game somewhere, I don't know what does.

    No ideas as to the implementation yet.
    Actually, that does give me a pretty good idea. Make it one of those "build a technology that doesn't improve anything else" kind of things. Like having to waste time building entertainment in Civilization or police and medical services for your Sim City. If you make it something that doesn't improve productive aspects of the map, people will put off building it as long as possible because everyone who plays a strategy game ever tries to invest as much as possible in improving their resource production and long-term prospects early. But if they don't invest before it's too late, bad things happen. Kinda like having better air power researched on time in X-COM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Actually, that does give me a pretty good idea. Make it one of those "build a technology that doesn't improve anything else" kind of things. Like having to waste time building entertainment in Civilization or police and medical services for your Sim City. If you make it something that doesn't improve productive aspects of the map, people will put off building it as long as possible because everyone who plays a strategy game ever tries to invest as much as possible in improving their resource production and long-term prospects early. But if they don't invest before it's too late, bad things happen. Kinda like having better air power researched on time in X-COM.
    Double bonus in that the technology forestalls disaster for both players. So not only are you wasting time and not improving your own position, you're helping your opponent as well.
    I'm developing a game. Let's see what happens! Complex.

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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    I had some thoughts about how we might implement a global environmental disaster system.

    There is a global environmental damage score/meter, visible to both players. Every Country will either add or subtract from this score every turn. In general, it is much easier for Countries to add damage than it is for them to subtract it.

    Each Country has a Disaster threshold for each tier of development. If the global environmental score passes that Disaster point, then the Country is automatically downgraded to the previous tier of development. The 3rd tier has a smaller Disaster threshold than the 2nd tier, and Countries won't ever go below the 1st tier. The specific values for the Disaster thresholds are randomized and hidden at the start of the game. They can be revealed via Lab research.

    No Technology comes with an environmentally helpful trait by default. If you want a Technology to aid the environment, you must add that trait via an Advanced Research Slot. Some Technology starts with environmentally unfriendly traits.

    The general idea with this is that it is easy and profitable to ignore the environment, difficult and costly to fix it. And any efforts taken to fix the planet will ultimately aid your opponent as well, both in terms of lost research time and a lower overall environment damage value.

    Further thoughts:
    -What if the environment damage level wasn't visible? What if the players instead had a general "ehhhh the value is somewhere between X and Y", and they had to spend Lab time to narrow the range?
    -We may want to have a formal "At Risk" state for Countries that are approaching a Disaster. Something to let the player know that their Country is on the brink of a downgrade, but not yet going bust.
    -There's a lot of information getting thrown around here, and playing with visibility levels could yield some interesting results. Like, what if all environmental research was globally visible?
    -In typing all this out, I've realized it feels weird to track damage to the environment, rather than the environment's overall health. While it does more closely match metrics such as emissions and global temperature, it's weird to write "-environment" as a positive trait.
    -There's a level of brinksmanship here, but intentionally collapsing the environment is ultimately a losing game. The player wants to be in a winning position come Endgame, and I suspect a total collapse would equally screw over both players.
    I'm developing a game. Let's see what happens! Complex.

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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate View Post
    -In typing all this out, I've realized it feels weird to track damage to the environment, rather than the environment's overall health. While it does more closely match metrics such as emissions and global temperature, it's weird to write "-environment" as a positive trait.
    Just add a minus sign. Start it as a full bar that degrades with most technology and is improved with the few specialty things, so that +environment is the positive trait. Or start it as, like, a 2/3 bar so there's space to improve it if somebody wants to go there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate View Post
    -We may want to have a formal "At Risk" state for Countries that are approaching a Disaster. Something to let the player know that their Country is on the brink of a downgrade, but not yet going bust.
    I think this would be an absolute necessity. No way people are going to remember a threshold for each country, and looking at them all every turn or two would be a pain, even if it's all condensed into a single table. Plus it kind of fits with current attitudes, where there is awareness that disaster is coming, but still profitable in the short term to ignore it. How close it appears could be easily adjusted depending on how urgent you want to make the warning. Maybe even by the time it appears it's too late (in terms of acquiring mitigating tech from scratch), but it at least gives a short period to adjust strategy.
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate View Post
    I had some thoughts about how we might implement a global environmental disaster system.

    There is a global environmental damage score/meter, visible to both players. Every Country will either add or subtract from this score every turn. In general, it is much easier for Countries to add damage than it is for them to subtract it.
    This is good and fits with some prototype ideas I have had.

    Each Country has a Disaster threshold for each tier of development. If the global environmental score passes that Disaster point, then the Country is automatically downgraded to the previous tier of development. The 3rd tier has a smaller Disaster threshold than the 2nd tier, and Countries won't ever go below the 1st tier. The specific values for the Disaster thresholds are randomized and hidden at the start of the game. They can be revealed via Lab research.
    I think this might be the best way to do it.

    No Technology comes with an environmentally helpful trait by default. If you want a Technology to aid the environment, you must add that trait via an Advanced Research Slot.
    This isn't necessary at all. Spreading a technology takes time and effort from executives already, there's no reason to add an exception for this variable alone.

    The general idea with this is that it is easy and profitable to ignore the environment, difficult and costly to fix it. And any efforts taken to fix the planet will ultimately aid your opponent as well, both in terms of lost research time and a lower overall environment damage value.
    I think that fixing the environment ultimately should be balanced as an opportunity cost against other things. It's not that fixing the environment is unusually hard, it's that to do it you've got to sacrifice researching better tanks.

    Further thoughts:
    -What if the environment damage level wasn't visible? What if the players instead had a general "ehhhh the value is somewhere between X and Y", and they had to spend Lab time to narrow the range?
    No. Think of the choice in the moment: Do I engage with the technology system or do I invest in climate research? How do you choose between the two? What factors into that decision? It's both unclear long term stuff which makes it an inherently frustrating choice.

    -We may want to have a formal "At Risk" state for Countries that are approaching a Disaster. Something to let the player know that their Country is on the brink of a downgrade, but not yet going bust.
    Mhm!

    -There's a lot of information getting thrown around here, and playing with visibility levels could yield some interesting results. Like, what if all environmental research was globally visible?
    Mmm, I again I think the base technology system is interesting enough. Say you spread green energy everywhere to save the planet - and then Mr. Johnson adds an advanced tech to it which crashes your economy.

    -There's a level of brinksmanship here, but intentionally collapsing the environment is ultimately a losing game. The player wants to be in a winning position come Endgame, and I suspect a total collapse would equally screw over both players.
    Depends on if Mr. Johnson is a bad actor or not. Some personalities like the Idealist or the Alien Missionary might prioritize saving the planet, the death AI might deliberately crash it to weaken humanity for the apocalyptic endgame. Depending on who you're up against the player might opt to deliberately crash the environment to corner a Johnson who can't let it go.
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw Six: Stealing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    This isn't necessary at all. Spreading a technology takes time and effort from executives already, there's no reason to add an exception for this variable alone.
    Fair point. We may want to to do some tweaks on the randomizer, because I think it would be a bit lame if - by random default - no Technology harmed the Environment and like three Technologies helped it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    I think that fixing the environment ultimately should be balanced as an opportunity cost against other things. It's not that fixing the environment is unusually hard, it's that to do it you've got to sacrifice researching better tanks.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Mmm, I again I think the base technology system is interesting enough. Say you spread green energy everywhere to save the planet - and then Mr. Johnson adds an advanced tech to it which crashes your economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    No. Think of the choice in the moment: Do I engage with the technology system or do I invest in climate research? How do you choose between the two? What factors into that decision? It's both unclear long term stuff which makes it an inherently frustrating choice.
    Fair point. The only things I'm still up in the air on is:

    1) Are the Disaster points for Countries a known value at the start of the game?
    2) If not, when one player knows the Disaster point of a Country, is that knowledge globally available?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Depends on if Mr. Johnson is a bad actor or not. Some personalities like the Idealist or the Alien Missionary might prioritize saving the planet, the death AI might deliberately crash it to weaken humanity for the apocalyptic endgame. Depending on who you're up against the player might opt to deliberately crash the environment to corner a Johnson who can't let it go.
    Bad use of terms on my part. I meant the person playing the game, rather than Mr. Johnson. It may well be a winning move for him to burn everything down. I can't quite see the game where the player strategically crashes the environment, but we'll see how it develops.
    I'm developing a game. Let's see what happens! Complex.

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