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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2016

    Default Melee arcane killer

    I have seen many threads in my research about the right class combos to build a good caster killer. Most agree that another caster is the best option and mostly I agree. However I have a build that I have used that terrifies even casters in my own party, and that gives my DM fits until he is foaming at the mouth. I wanted to post it here and get some feedback as well as spread the pain to other lands.

    Karsite, Hexblade 3/Fighter 4/Rouge 2/Ranger 1/ Shadowblade 10

    To the basics: this gives you mettle, evasion, SR, a bonus on all saves against spells and spell like affects, spell healing from your SR, extra dmg against casters, and a potentially huge one hit kill on casters.

    While this build with the right feats and equipment is very good against casters, it also plays the sneaky rogue well and can hold its own in a stand up fight as well as most. Especially when combining the Karsite magic drain ability with the powers from the shadowblade class. NEVER WORRY ABOUT OPPONENTS ARMOR AGAIN!

    Any thoughts please share. I play up the sneaky fighter angle. And I have left out the equipment and feat selection for my character. But he is hard to spot and pacts a punch.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2010

    Default Re: Melee arcane killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Nytewolf View Post
    I have seen many threads in my research about the right class combos to build a good caster killer. Most agree that another caster is the best option and mostly I agree. However I have a build that I have used that terrifies even casters in my own party, and that gives my DM fits until he is foaming at the mouth. I wanted to post it here and get some feedback as well as spread the pain to other lands.

    Karsite, Hexblade 3/Fighter 4/Rouge 2/Ranger 1/ Shadowblade 10

    To the basics: this gives you mettle, evasion, SR, a bonus on all saves against spells and spell like affects, spell healing from your SR, extra dmg against casters, and a potentially huge one hit kill on casters.

    While this build with the right feats and equipment is very good against casters, it also plays the sneaky rogue well and can hold its own in a stand up fight as well as most. Especially when combining the Karsite magic drain ability with the powers from the shadowblade class. NEVER WORRY ABOUT OPPONENTS ARMOR AGAIN!

    Any thoughts please share. I play up the sneaky fighter angle. And I have left out the equipment and feat selection for my character. But he is hard to spot and pacts a punch.
    So at level 9 you are a Karsite 2/Hexblade 3/Fighter 4. Your saves are +5, +2, +4 +Cha +Stat. You have SR 17. If you were somehow to get adjacent to a Wizard (which would basically be luck, because you have no ability to do that), he would probably cast one of the pretty standard spells for Wizards, like Baleful Polymorph, Dominate Person, Feeblemind, Magic Jar, or Illsuory Feast.

    Or you know, spells he could have use two levels ago, like Fear, Burning Blood, Greater Rebuke.

    Or spells he could have used 4 levels ago, like Stinking Cloud, Bands of Steel, Ray of Dizziness.

    Or spells he could have used 6 levels ago, like Glitterdust or Web.

    Or he could be a Sorcerer and cast Wings of Flurry.

    Having evasion and mettle only matters if you can make the saves reliably. A standard 9th level Wizard has a DC of 22 before taking into account things like spell focus, or heavy Int boosting, ect. Based CL that can only go up is 10, so he's rolling 1d20+at least 10, usually a lot more than 10, to beat your SR 17.

    A Wizard also has defenses, at this level, you haven't shown anything about how you are going to close with the always flying Wizard, much less what you are going to do to hurt him when he can cast Greater Mirror Image as an immediate action. Hypothetically if you manage to hit him with one attack somehow, he can teleport away in 3 seconds. Scry you up, and come back to murder you later. Of course, all this assumes he isn't just hanging out inside the body of a Dragon with Changeshape thanks to Magic Jar, and he responds to you attacking him by turning back into a Dragon and then squeezing you until you pop.

    I think it's safe to say that at levels 1-9 this build is pretty bad, even assuming you do boost as much as possible, all that comes at the expense of every other stat, and since every other stat except int either effects a saving throw or your damage, that's at best going to get you slightly better saving throws.

    Now, at level 12, your 2 Rogue levels and a Ranger level do nothing to help any of this, really. And now you are facing a guy who can literally walk around with a Glabrezu or 3 ordered to Power Word Stun anyone who attacks him. I am really unimpressed.

    Eventually you get some Shadowblade abilities, like, at level 13, when the Wizard gains the ability to lock you in a little box, you gain the ability to still not bypass Greater Mirror Image.

    This is really unimpressive honestly. If you really wanted to make this character, you'd be a lot better off making a Dark Whispher Gnome Rogue 3/Hexblade 3/Paladin (Tyranny or whatever as required for alignment) 2/Rogue everything else, with Darkstalker, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection.

    This at least gives you plausible stealth abilities to actually use hide and get to the Wizard, and actually good saving throws, and at least some minor damage when you do hit, although still not much. I mean, you still lose if he casts greater mirror image, but that's the price you pay, eventually at level like... 13 or so you can afford to have True Seeing at the cost of being even more pathetic when you attack.

    Alternatively give up on stealth at all, and be a Gloura, Paladin 2/Hexblade 3/Monk 2, and then do anything you can to find some at will status effect on your attacks with a save based on Charisma.
    Last edited by Beheld; 2016-06-13 at 12:18 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2016

    Default Re: Melee arcane killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Beheld View Post
    So at level 9 you are a Karsite 2/Hexblade 3/Fighter 4. Your saves are +5, +2, +4 +Cha +Stat. You have SR 17. If you were somehow to get adjacent to a Wizard (which would basically be luck, because you have no ability to do that), he would probably cast one of the pretty standard spells for Wizards, like Baleful Polymorph, Dominate Person, Feeblemind, Magic Jar, or Illsuory Feast.

    Or you know, spells he could have use two levels ago, like Fear, Burning Blood, Greater Rebuke.

    Or spells he could have used 4 levels ago, like Stinking Cloud, Bands of Steel, Ray of Dizziness.

    Or spells he could have used 6 levels ago, like Glitterdust or Web.

    Or he could be a Sorcerer and cast Wings of Flurry.

    Having evasion and mettle only matters if you can make the saves reliably. A standard 9th level Wizard has a DC of 22 before taking into account things like spell focus, or heavy Int boosting, ect. Based CL that can only go up is 10, so he's rolling 1d20+at least 10, usually a lot more than 10, to beat your SR 17.

    A Wizard also has defenses, at this level, you haven't shown anything about how you are going to close with the always flying Wizard, much less what you are going to do to hurt him when he can cast Greater Mirror Image as an immediate action. Hypothetically if you manage to hit him with one attack somehow, he can teleport away in 3 seconds. Scry you up, and come back to murder you later. Of course, all this assumes he isn't just hanging out inside the body of a Dragon with Changeshape thanks to Magic Jar, and he responds to you attacking him by turning back into a Dragon and then squeezing you until you pop.

    I think it's safe to say that at levels 1-9 this build is pretty bad, even assuming you do boost as much as possible, all that comes at the expense of every other stat, and since every other stat except int either effects a saving throw or your damage, that's at best going to get you slightly better saving throws.

    Now, at level 12, your 2 Rogue levels and a Ranger level do nothing to help any of this, really. And now you are facing a guy who can literally walk around with a Glabrezu or 3 ordered to Power Word Stun anyone who attacks him. I am really unimpressed.

    Eventually you get some Shadowblade abilities, like, at level 13, when the Wizard gains the ability to lock you in a little box, you gain the ability to still not bypass Greater Mirror Image.

    This is really unimpressive honestly. If you really wanted to make this character, you'd be a lot better off making a Dark Whispher Gnome Rogue 3/Hexblade 3/Paladin (Tyranny or whatever as required for alignment) 2/Rogue everything else, with Darkstalker, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection.

    This at least gives you plausible stealth abilities to actually use hide and get to the Wizard, and actually good saving throws, and at least some minor damage when you do hit, although still not much. I mean, you still lose if he casts greater mirror image, but that's the price you pay, eventually at level like... 13 or so you can afford to have True Seeing at the cost of being even more pathetic when you attack.

    Alternatively give up on stealth at all, and be a Gloura, Paladin 2/Hexblade 3/Monk 2, and then do anything you can to find some at will status effect on your attacks with a save based on Charisma.
    First, let me apologize. This is my first thread and I am aware I left a few things out.
    I in no.way meant to imply that the classes listed were in the order they should be taken, just the final overall build. How no took them and when depended on the game play and I would have to go back and look to see when I took each.
    No I did not list the feats I took or the equipment I carried. I can, if that would help. I liked this combo for several reasons, if done right it is quite effective overall.
    I was mostly giving out an idea of something I have enjoyed playing and is effective against casters. Properly outfitted and with minimal knowledge of the kindnof caster you would be facing this build works nicely.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2010

    Default Re: Melee arcane killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Nytewolf View Post
    I liked this combo for several reasons, if done right it is quite effective overall.
    I was mostly giving out an idea of something I have enjoyed playing and is effective against casters. Properly outfitted and with minimal knowledge of the kindnof caster you would be facing this build works nicely.
    And my point is that the build is tremendously ineffective, there are better ways to accomplish the same combo, and that against the kinds of casters you will face, you will get stomped into the dirt.

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