An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time II: Randy's Horny Hunt

[An Enemy Spy]

This here's the continuation of my readthrough of The Wheel of Time. I am currently on Book 2: The Great Hunt. If you're new here, refer to the table of contents below.

Spoiler: Book 1: The Eye of the World

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Prologue
Chapter 1: An Empty Road
Chapter 2: Strangers
Chapter 3: The Peddler
Chapter 4: The Gleeman
Chapter 5: Winternight
Chapter 6: The Westwood
Chapter 7: Out of the Woods
Chapter 8: A Place of Safety
Chapter 9: Tellings of the Wheel
Chapter 10: Leavetaking
Chapter 11: The Road to Taren Ferry
Chapter 12: Across the Taren
Chapter 13: Choices
Chapter 14: The Stag and Lion
Chapter 15: Strangers and Friends
Chapter 16: The Wisdom
Chapter 17: Watchers and Hunters
Chapter 18: The Caemlyn Road
Chapter 19: Shadow's Waiting
Chapter 20: Dust on the Wind
Chapter 21: Listen to the Wind
Chapter 22: A Path Chosen
Chapter 23: Wolfbrother
Chapter 24: Flight Down the Arinelle
Chapter 25: The Traveling People
Chapter 26: Whitebridge
Chapter 27: Shelter From the Storm
Chapter 28: Footprints in Air
Chapter 29: Eyes Without Pity
Chapter 30: Children of Shadow
Chapter 31: Play For Your Supper
Chapter 32: Four Kings in Shadow
Chapter 33: The Shadow Waits
Chapter 34: The Last Village
Chapter 35: Caemlyn
Chapter 36: Web of the Pattern
Chapter 37: The Long Chase
Chapter 38: Rescue
Chapter 39: Weaving of the Web
Chapter 40: The Web Tightens
Chapter 41: Old Friends and New Threats
Chapter 42: Remembrance of Dreams
Chapter 43: Decisions and Apparitions
Chapter 44: The Dark Along the Ways
Chapter 45: What Follows in Shadow
Chapter 46: Fal Dara
Chapter 47: More Tales of the Wheel
Chapter 48: The Blight
Chapter 49: The Dark One Stirs
Chapter 50: Meetings at the Eye
Chapter 51: Against the Shadow
Chapter 52: There is Neither Beginning Nor End
Chapter 53: The Wheel Turns

Spoiler: Book 2: The Great Hunt

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Prologue: In the Shadow
Chapter 1: The Flame of Tar Valon
Chapter 2: The Welcome
Chapter 3: Friends and Enemies
Chapter 4: Summoned
Chapter 5: The Shadow in Shienar
Chapter 6: Dark Prophecy
Chapter 7: Blood Calls Blood
Chapter 8: The Dragon Reborn
Chapter 9: Leavetakings
Chapter 10: The Hunt Begins
Chapter 11: Glimmers of the Pattern
Chapter 12: Woven in the Pattern
Chapter 13: From Stone to Stone
Chapter 14: Wolfbrother
Chapter 15: Kinslayer
Chapter 16: In the Mirror of Darkness
Chapter 17: Choices
Chapter 18: To the White Tower
Chapter 19: Beneath the Dagger

[Traab]

/Marry Poppins quote "POSTS, EVERYONE!"

[Reddish Mage]

Funny, I remember the books get really horny AFTER....oh wait spoilers

[Anteros]

I have reservations about this title making people think we're talking about something weird, but it's your thread.

Agreed, and I think there's also a "corruptibility" mechanic at work too. Book 1 Mat was a greedy bumpkin and actually wanted the dagger (or at least the ruby in its hilt), hence stealing it. That emotion likely gives the darkness a little more to work with. Perrin and Rand meanwhile actively rejected anything from the trove. The dagger as a whole takes several pages from the One Ring artifact playbook, including having its very own obsessed Gollum figure.

Doesn't Morraine throw in a line that Mat is actually not susceptable to the dagger compared to normal people? She definitely says that it was his good nature that allowed him to hold on as long as he did.

Spoiler: On Suin's Warder

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Suin is a cold person. Alric's purpose in the plot is to show us how cold and calculating she is, even when people she should care for die. It makes her eventual transition into a person who cares about personal bonds more striking.

[An Enemy Spy]

I think I'm gonna change the title. It gets less funny every time I look at it. Not entirely sure how to do that though.

[Ninja_Prawn]

New thread!

Spoiler: If your warder died just before a big meeting...

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...you'd get massive amount of leeway. Just look at how much slack they cut Alanna after she lost a warder. Verin's POV is instructive, because she's so observant and dispassionate.

I think I'm gonna change the title. It gets less funny every time I look at it. Not entirely sure how to do that though.

You can edit the original post, I think.

[snowblizz]

Spoiler: On Suin's Warder

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Suin is a cold person. Alric's purpose in the plot is to show us how cold and calculating she is, even when people she should care for die. It makes her eventual transition into a person who cares about personal bonds more striking.

Spoiler: More on Siuan and Warders

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In part it's probably to showcase the Blue. Siuan has a mission, The Mission (tm) in fact. She won't let anything stop that. Everyone except Rand is expendable to her.

Furthermore all (except Reds) Aes Sedai have Warders, That Is How It Is Done. Browns have Warders even though most never leave Tar Valon let alone the White Tower. In fact that seems to be a way to punish the more adventurous of Warders IIRC. That it has little to do with need and more tradition is clearly dispayed with the Red, who if anyone, would need them. Aes Sedai do tend to stick with tradition over reality often enough, silly as it seems. That the Amyrlin has a Warder as a last line of defense of her life just as any Aes Sedai makes perfect sense. Siuan may not be making the most of it, but then she is very driven.

[Saph]

I think I'm gonna change the title. It gets less funny every time I look at it. Not entirely sure how to do that though.

I quite liked 'This Is Not The Beginning'.

Spoiler: More on Siuan and Warders

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In part it's probably to showcase the Blue. Siuan has a mission, The Mission (tm) in fact. She won't let anything stop that. Everyone except Rand is expendable to her.

Spoiler: Siuan

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In fact, everyone including Rand is expendable. Rand's job is just to get expended slightly later.

It's a definite trait of the Blue Ajah that while they're clearly meant to be more one of the 'good guy' Ajahs, they're also ruthless. Moiraine can already be scary, and the more Aes Sedai we see, the more we realise she's actually one of the kindlier ones. Siuan is much less nice.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Spoiler: Siuan

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Moiraine can already be scary, and the more Aes Sedai we see, the more we realise she's actually one of the kindlier ones. Siuan is much less nice.

I certainly know who wears the pants in my headcanon!

Spoiler: Thinking about it...

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it's interesting that the Siuan/Leane dynamic takes on such a butch/femme flavour - and that it gets forced into secrecy - after they get stilled. Maybe Siuan was trying to replace someone?

[Psyren]

Can we not label the spoilers with death things?

New thread!

Spoiler

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...you'd get massive amount of leeway. Just look at how much slack they cut Alanna after she lost a warder. Verin's POV is instructive, because she's so observant and dispassionate.

Slack???

Spoiler

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Cadsuane treated her like a child and manipulated her mercilessly, and Verin was only a little better. Sure those two are particularly manipulative, but the majority of the Sitters are little different. Romanda, Lelaine, any of the Black ones, they'd all have eaten her for lunch. And Alanna is just a regular sister, not even the Amyrlin, someone they'd have reason to antagonize (and in the Black's case, look for any pretext to depose or kill if the Shadow required it.)

Spoiler

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Suin is a cold person. Alric's purpose in the plot is to show us how cold and calculating she is, even when people she should care for die. It makes her eventual transition into a person who cares about personal bonds more striking.

Spoiler

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I'd believe this if I had any indication or justification that she cared to begin with. Instead we get "she is sad now, because the magic is making her sad now" with not a scrap of information as to what Alric did for her personally or professionally.

Spoiler

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In part it's probably to showcase the Blue. Siuan has a mission, The Mission (tm) in fact. She won't let anything stop that. Everyone except Rand is expendable to her.

Furthermore all (except Reds) Aes Sedai have Warders, That Is How It Is Done. Browns have Warders even though most never leave Tar Valon let alone the White Tower. In fact that seems to be a way to punish the more adventurous of Warders IIRC. That it has little to do with need and more tradition is clearly dispayed with the Red, who if anyone, would need them. Aes Sedai do tend to stick with tradition over reality often enough, silly as it seems. That the Amyrlin has a Warder as a last line of defense of her life just as any Aes Sedai makes perfect sense. Siuan may not be making the most of it, but then she is very driven.

I have no doubt that this is the reason, and perhaps the only reason. That doesn't make his character any less pointless however. Again, if we end up with a live-action adaptation of some kind, there'll be a lot of dead wood to whittle away and I would nominate this guy for the chopping block in a heartbeat.

[Ninja_Prawn]

That doesn't make his character any less pointless however.

I think we're going in circles on Alric now, so I'm going to drop it. The particular bit above does give me an idea though...

If you had to pick a four-man, all-star adventuring party or 'dream team' from all the characters in the books, who would y'all choose?

[Saph]

I think we're going in circles on Alric now, so I'm going to drop it. The particular bit above does give me an idea though...

If you had to pick a four-man, all-star adventuring party or 'dream team' from all the characters in the books, who would y'all choose?

That's kind of a fun one. I mean, it's easy to pick the most powerful, but you have to balance that off against other factors such as sanity and not being so manipulative/obnoxious that everyone else wants to kill them.

Spoiler: Possible very mild spoilers

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I'd probably go with Rand, Nynaeve, Lan, and Min. Rand for obvious power reasons, and Nynaeve for similar reasons but also because, out of all the female channellers, she's the one who (at least by the later books) is best able to work constructively with Rand. Lan is there to stop surprise attacks and because he can work well with both Rand and Nynaeve, and Min is there just to stop Rand going insane (and because she's got one of the smallest egos out of all the main characters)

. . . Come to think of it, that's pretty much Wizard, Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, isn't it?

[Ashen Lilies]

Spoiler: Party Talk

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I feel like Mat would probably top a lot of people's lists (at the very least, he definitely tops mine) as party leader, and given how much he gets around, I think we actually come close to it several times, with how the dynamics of The Band of the Red Hand end up working out. Mat, Thom, and Noal are pretty much already a dream party for me already, though they're lacking anyone with knowledge of the One Power.

My dream party would be Mat, Lan, Birgitte, and Verin, though. Possibly substitute Verin for Moiraine. I can't really decide at the moment.

[Psyren]

The three ta'veren and a gerbil. By the end of it

Spoiler

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I'd have ten armies and a boatload of channelers sworn to my group, and the DO would have strict orders out not to kill any of them, including the gerbil.

Less facetiously, you could create a perfect party from the ranks of the Forsaken if they didn't all have chronic backstabbing syndrome and weren't led by a moron.

If I could trust them, I'd probably go with

Spoiler

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Moridin for overall badassitude, Lanfear for female power and TAR skill, Semirhage for healing (and to be the second female to help control Callandor), and then a non-channeling rogue type: either Luc/Isam, Padan Fain, Shaidar Haran or the gholam.

[monomer]

My first thought was to include Lan as the tank, but really, either Rand or Ishamael can function almost as well in melee, and both have the obvious advantage of also being able to channel. My list would probably go:

• Rogue: Mat
• Fighter: Rand
• Healer: Nynaeve
• Caster: Lanfear (Assuming she can get along with everyone)

That gives you strong leadership and tactical awareness, as well as three of the strongest wielders of the one power in the world which gives a ton of flexibility.

Spoiler

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If Lanfear doesn't work out, switch Mat into the Tank role since he can pretty much handle anyone anyways, Rand is the caster/off-tank, Nynaeve remains Healer, and for Rogue/Utility, idunno... Thom I guess. A dual dagger-wielding Bard with lore checks out the wazoo should work.

[Traab]

My first thought was to include Lan as the tank, but really, either Rand or Ishamael can function almost as well in melee, and both have the obvious advantage of also being able to channel. My list would probably go:

• Rogue: Mat
• Fighter: Rand
• Healer: Nynaeve
• Caster: Lanfear (Assuming she can get along with everyone)

That gives you strong leadership and tactical awareness, as well as three of the strongest wielders of the one power in the world which gives a ton of flexibility.

Spoiler

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If Lanfear doesn't work out, switch Mat into the Tank role since he can pretty much handle anyone anyways, Rand is the caster/off-tank, Nynaeve remains Healer, and for Rogue/Utility, idunno... Thom I guess. A dual dagger-wielding Bard with lore checks out the wazoo should work.

Every party needs at least one lore expert. Thom works, Morainne could do it. Someone you can turn to when anything new pops up and say, "So uh, what do we do here?" Since life isnt an mmo, everyone needs to be able to fight, preferably both long and close range, but if nothing else, close range. Just watch that cave troll battle in fellowship in moria for the reason why. They had a few good tanks right there in the front lines, but as soon as those doors broke down, it turned into a general melee. EVERYONE needs to be able to use a melee weapon well. Being able to attack at a distance is great, but often more of a luxury than a necessity.

So my party would be

Spoiler

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Rand for his close and long distance fighting
Thom for his up close combat and general lore knowledge
Lan for his general melee combat mastery
Nyaneave. Now I know I said everyone needs to melee, but there can be an exception, and every group could use a healer/sorceress. Plus if they ever need rope they can cut her damn braid so she stops tugging it all the time.

[georgie_leech]

Spoiler

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Plus if they ever need rope they can cut her damn braid so she stops tugging it all the time.

You just got me a bunch of dirty looks from the other library patrons. I hope you're happy.

[GAZ]

My WoT adventuring party would be straight up Team Emond's Field: Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Nynaeve. First off, three times ta'vern goodness and main character status. One powerful channeler for each of saidin and saidar. There's high grade melee ability, solid archery, and great woodcraft. And then there's all the

Spoiler: spoiler reasons

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Two of the most powerful channelers ever with all the destruction, healing, and tactical supremacy that implies. Listening to the wind. The Dark One's own luck. Complete mastery of Tel'aran'rhiod (and it's honestly shocking that nobody else has brought a real dreamer to the party. [No, Lanfear doesn't count]). One of the best tactical minds ever to really use all those resources and the three tag-along armies.

[Anteros]

Spoiler: My team

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I'm gonna go with team "The universe hates Mat." Mat, Egwene, Nynaeve, and Tuon. Just because they'll constantly be getting themselves into trouble for Mat to rescue them from, and then making his life miserable when he does it. It would be hilarious.

[The_Snark]

Spoiler: My team

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I'm gonna go with team "The universe hates Mat." Mat, Egwene, Nynaeve, and Tuon. Just because they'll constantly be getting themselves into trouble for Mat to rescue them from, and then making his life miserable when he does it. It would be hilarious.

... yikes.

Spoiler

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In addition to any damsel-rescuing that may prove necessary, Mat is also going to have to try and play peacemaker when Tuon and Egwene (and Nynaeve) clash - and not the usual humorous bickering you see between characters who are basically on the same side, either, they have legitimate grievances/ideological differences that Mat can't/shouldn't push aside. I feel like the Serious Argument would overshadow the hilarity.

Maybe Cadsuane instead of Tuon? I don't think she and Mat ever meet in the books, but it's a safe assumption that she'd try to push him around, because that's what she does. For bonus points, she'll also strike sparks with Nynaeve and probably Egwene, but in a less serious way.

(Yes, yes, I know people have talked Lanfear and other Forsaken on a team with various good guys, but for some reason Egwene and Tuon seems even less plausible...)

[Saph]

Spoiler

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(Yes, yes, I know people have talked Lanfear and other Forsaken on a team with various good guys, but for some reason Egwene and Tuon seems even less plausible...)

Spoiler

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I don't think Egwene works on a team with anyone unless they're all her subordinates, and Cadsuane is almost as bad. But putting Egwene and Tuon in the same group does seem like an especially terrible idea.

Now I'm wondering which groups would score highest on "probability of self-inflicted TPK". Possible candidates:

1) Egwene and Tuon
2) Rand and Demandred
3) Lanfear and Rand's love interests
4) Lanfear and anyone

[Psyren]

Spoiler

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I don't think Egwene works on a team with anyone unless they're all her subordinates, and Cadsuane is almost as bad. But putting Egwene and Tuon in the same group does seem like an especially terrible idea.

Now I'm wondering which groups would score highest on "probability of self-inflicted TPK". Possible candidates:

1) Egwene and Tuon
2) Rand and Demandred
3) Lanfear and Rand's love interests
4) Lanfear and anyone

Spoiler

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5) Perrin and Slayer
6) Gholam and [non-Forsaken channeler]
7) Fain and anyone
8) Therava and anyone
9) Couladin and anyone

[Ninja_Prawn]

Spoiler

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5) Perrin and Slayer
6) Gholam and [non-Forsaken channeler]
7) Fain and anyone
8) Therava and anyone
9) Couladin and anyone

Oh man...

Spoiler

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Imagine a party of Fain, Couladin, Elaida and Lanfear... It'd be PvP central!

[Wookieetank]

My team:
Tom Bombadil
Galadriel
Elrond
Eowyn

Oh wait wrong let's read thread...

My other team:
Ingtar
Mat
Moraine
Tam al'Thor

Cause it'd be interesting.

[Ninja_Prawn]

My other team:
Ingtar
Mat
Moraine
Tam al'Thor

Cause it'd be interesting.

I can see a lot of metagaming going on with this team. I get the feeling they'd be okay with a bit of railroading, though. "The Wheel weaves as The Wheel wills," after all.

[Wookieetank]

I can see a lot of metagaming going on with this team. I get the feeling they'd be okay with a bit of railroading, though. "The Wheel weaves as The Wheel wills," after all.

Spoiler

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I'm intrigued to see who would come out as party leader (most likely not Tam though). Would Mat end up with lead with his luck and attitude of someone has to do it, and I seem to be the only capable one around (but only under duress and with great amounts of denial), Moraine being Moraine, or Ingtar with his natural aptitude for leading others? Would make for an interesting group dynamic, particularly later on. Tam is more along for common sense and ranged ability tbh.

[Psyren]

I can see a lot of metagaming going on with this team. I get the feeling they'd be okay with a bit of railroading, though. "The Wheel weaves as The Wheel wills," after all.

Mat would QQ the entire time, before going along with it anyway.

[Traab]

Mat would QQ the entire time, before going along with it anyway.

Screaming about bloody ashes

Spoiler

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in the old tongue

the entire freaking time.

[Anteros]

Spoiler

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I'm intrigued to see who would come out as party leader (most likely not Tam though). Would Mat end up with lead with his luck and attitude of someone has to do it, and I seem to be the only capable one around (but only under duress and with great amounts of denial), Moraine being Moraine, or Ingtar with his natural aptitude for leading others? Would make for an interesting group dynamic, particularly later on. Tam is more along for common sense and ranged ability tbh.

Spoiler

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I'm going to say that Mat would end up leader against his will. Morraine and Tam are both smart enough to know he should be leading, and Ingtar is a career soldier. I'd say that the party starts with Morraine clearly in charge, and shifts to Mat over time as he demonstrates his competency.

... yikes.

Spoiler

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In addition to any damsel-rescuing that may prove necessary, Mat is also going to have to try and play peacemaker when Tuon and Egwene (and Nynaeve) clash - and not the usual humorous bickering you see between characters who are basically on the same side, either, they have legitimate grievances/ideological differences that Mat can't/shouldn't push aside. I feel like the Serious Argument would overshadow the hilarity.

Maybe Cadsuane instead of Tuon? I don't think she and Mat ever meet in the books, but it's a safe assumption that she'd try to push him around, because that's what she does. For bonus points, she'll also strike sparks with Nynaeve and probably Egwene, but in a less serious way.

(Yes, yes, I know people have talked Lanfear and other Forsaken on a team with various good guys, but for some reason Egwene and Tuon seems even less plausible...)

I must admit, I almost used Cenn Buie for the last slot.

[Wookieetank]

Spoiler

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I'm going to say that Mat would end up leader against his will. Morraine and Tam are both smart enough to know he should be leading, and Ingtar is a career soldier. I'd say that the party starts with Morraine clearly in charge, and shifts to Mat over time as he demonstrates his competency.

Spoiler

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That's about what I was thinking as well, but I wasn't sure if that was just my personal bias/preference towards the characters talking or not. Mat for main character 2016