An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time II: Randy's Horny Hunt

[Saph]

I'm fairly sure AES has already worked out these spoilers. Well, maybe the word

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yandere

was a bit of a bonus, but it's only half-true anyway, in my opinion.

So, in Fires of Heaven, which part of:

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Lanfear discovering that Rand had had sex with someone else and then, in order:

• skinning alive the man who gave her the message,
• throwing the man's skin at Rand,
• torturing Rand's two closest female companions to find out which of them it was,
• threatening to kill Rand when he tries to intervene,
• actually trying to kill Rand when he does intervene, and coming pretty close as well,

doesn't qualify her as a yandere, again?

[ryuplaneswalker]

So, in Fires of Heaven, which part of:

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Lanfear discovering that Rand had had sex with someone else and then, in order:

• skinning alive the man who gave her the message,
• throwing the man's skin at Rand,
• torturing Rand's two closest female companions to find out which of them it was,
• threatening to kill Rand when he tries to intervene,
• actually trying to kill Rand when he does intervene, and coming pretty close as well,

doesn't qualify her as a yandere, again?

You forgot one

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Being so Crazy that she somehow warps the pattern so that Mat's foxhead talisman doesn't work

[Ninja_Prawn]

So, in Fires of Heaven, which part of:

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Lanfear discovering that Rand had had sex with someone else and then, in order:

• skinning alive the man who gave her the message,
• throwing the man's skin at Rand,
• torturing Rand's two closest female companions to find out which of them it was,
• threatening to kill Rand when he tries to intervene,
• actually trying to kill Rand when he does intervene, and coming pretty close as well,

doesn't qualify her as a yandere, again?

I guess the bit where

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she just gives up and decides she doesn't want Rand after all? A bit of flaying and torture isn't really anything special for the forsaken, after all. And like I said, there's truth to the statement. I just feel it's a bit reductive.

[mangosta71]

So, in Fires of Heaven, which part of:

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Lanfear discovering that Rand had had sex with someone else and then, in order:

• skinning alive the man who gave her the message,
• throwing the man's skin at Rand,
• torturing Rand's two closest female companions to find out which of them it was,
• threatening to kill Rand when he tries to intervene,
• actually trying to kill Rand when he does intervene, and coming pretty close as well,

doesn't qualify her as a yandere, again?

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Wasn't that a woman? Isendre, or something like that? The one Asmodean was banging because she couldn't get Rand to bang her?

[lord_khaine]

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No, she were killed by the darkfriend driver. It was him that were skinned.

[Psyren]

You forgot one

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Being so Crazy that she somehow warps the pattern so that Mat's foxhead talisman doesn't work

Not sure what you mean by this:

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If you mean Mat not being able to get through the dome around the docks - LT actually wove that, not Lanfear, and there was more to it than just hardened air because it was stopping her weaves too. Plus it didn't target Mat. So there's a chance that his foxhead couldn't defeat whatever it was.

If you mean Mat getting zapped by Rahvin's trap, it's well-established that indirect weaves like lightning bypass the amulet too.

[georgie_leech]

Not sure what you mean by this:

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If you mean Mat not being able to get through the dome around the docks - LT actually wove that, not Lanfear, and there was more to it than just hardened air because it was stopping her weaves too. Plus it didn't target Mat. So there's a chance that his foxhead couldn't defeat whatever it was.

If you mean Mat getting zapped by Rahvin's trap, it's well-established that indirect weaves like lightning bypass the amulet too.

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Specifically, the "generate charge differential and let nature takes its course" lightning, not some weird combination of Air and whatnot that directly targets someone with lightning.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Not sure what you mean by this:

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If you mean Mat not being able to get through the dome around the docks - LT actually wove that, not Lanfear, and there was more to it than just hardened air because it was stopping her weaves too. Plus it didn't target Mat. So there's a chance that his foxhead couldn't defeat whatever it was.

If you mean Mat getting zapped by Rahvin's trap, it's well-established that indirect weaves like lightning bypass the amulet too.

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I do mean the Dome, we see a bit later that The Amulet protects against the Male half of the source, and it explicitly makes weaves of Air which is what the domes are fall apart, Domes of Air in general stop weaves, we see that in the battle of Shadar Logath and Dumai's wells.

[Psyren]

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I do mean the Dome, we see a bit later that The Amulet protects against the Male half of the source, and it explicitly makes weaves of Air which is what the domes are fall apart, Domes of Air in general stop weaves, we see that in the battle of Shadar Logath and Dumai's wells.

I still think there was much more to it than

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mere Air - the dome itself appears to be pretty complex from Rand's POV, despite the fact that at this point in the story he can recognize individual flows/elements. In that same fight, he does try to grab Lanfear in pure Air and she immediately slashes his weave, then proceeds to torture Egwene and Aviendha.

The dome is also misty-gray and nearly opaque, whereas pure air weaves are described as clear or blue-tinged. So I still don't see it's ability to stop Mat's amulet as being too farfetched. Whatever it was, it seems to be pretty unique. It may even be indirect, like a Gateway - i.e. the magical effect itself is separate from the weave that created it, just like how Mat can go through Gateways and stand on Skimming platforms.

Even if you still believe it to be a plothole however, the point stands - LT made the dome, not Lanfear.

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Specifically, the "generate charge differential and let nature takes its course" lightning, not some weird combination of Air and whatnot that directly targets someone with lightning.

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AFAIK that's the only type of lightning used in the series. Both damane and AS "call" lightning, and it drops out of a clear sky where they point. In other words, they're generating a directed charge differential as you state.

Basically, WoT lightning is this spell instead of this one, and in the WoT universe, the former bypasses SR.

[Anteros]

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It could be that Jordan originally didn't intend for the amulet to work against men, and he just changed his mind. Or it could be that it doesn't work against tied off weaves. Or it could be that the dome was weaves grabbing air and pushing it outward, and thus Mat couldn't actually reach the weaves to disrupt them.

[ryuplaneswalker]

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The dome is also misty-gray and nearly opaque, whereas pure air weaves are described as clear or blue-tinged. So I still don't see it's ability to stop Mat's amulet as being too farfetched. Whatever it was, it seems to be pretty unique. It may even be indirect, like a Gateway - i.e. the magical effect itself is separate from the weave that created it, just like how Mat can go through Gateways and stand on Skimming platforms.

Even if you still believe it to be a plothole however, the point stands - LT made the dome, not Lanfear.

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I am saying she is so crazy it breaks reality, and the Talisman negates -all- weaves that come in direct contact with him. It is a giant plot hole that I was making a joke about the levels of Lanfear's crazy NOT who made the weave.

[Psyren]

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I am saying she is so crazy it breaks reality, and the Talisman negates -all- weaves that come in direct contact with him. It is a giant plot hole that I was making a joke about the levels of Lanfear's crazy NOT who made the weave.

I know exactly what you were doing; I'm saying I don't think it was a plot hole. *points at sig*

[ryuplaneswalker]

I know exactly what you were doing; I'm saying I don't think it was a plot hole. *points at sig*

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So you are saying, the Talisman that prevent's bonds of air wouldn't melt a barrier made primarily of AIR, that somehow Lews Therin bleeding through knew a way to counter that thing when Damedred fought people with it 3 Times and didn't use it?

Now I love wheel of time, but that moment was clearly before he decided that the Fox head would prevent weaves from both halves of the source. That is why I made the joke not to nitpick.

[Psyren]

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So you are saying, the Talisman that prevent's bonds of air wouldn't melt a barrier made primarily of AIR, that somehow Lews Therin bleeding through knew a way to counter that thing when Damedred fought people with it 3 Times and didn't use it?

Now I love wheel of time, but that moment was clearly before he decided that the Fox head would prevent weaves from both halves of the source. That is why I made the joke not to nitpick.

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1) You don't know what the barrier was made of; nowhere is its composition described. It looks and behaves like no Air weave we've seen before or since.
2) Demandred being dumb about something says nothing about LT (or Rand.)

[An Enemy Spy]

Chapter 40: Damane

Well that's not a chapter title that bodes well for our heroes, is it? Liandrin leads the girls(should I give them a nickname like I do with the Three Musketeers?) out of the Waygate and right into the clutches of the Seanchan. I mean, there are literally fifty soldiers just standing right there waiting for them, and two matched pairs of sul'dam and damanes. The group is led by an old woman on a palanquin carried by eight shirtless men, just in case you weren't sure if the Seanchan were a bunch of decadent pricks. Liandrin addresses her as High Lady Suroth. Turns out she's been colluding with the Seanchan and brought Egwene and Nynaeve here to turn them into damanes. What a shocking, shocking twist. Having the Daughter Heir of Andor along is also a nice bonus, and Min, well nobody seems to care about her much at all.

Egwene, bright bulb as she is, asks if the Seanchan are here to help find Rand, and then Min and Elayne both get grabbed by the soldiers. A huge gust of wind suddenly picks up, blowing people around and sending dust into the air, blocking vision. Egwene gets one of the magical silver slave chains put around her neck and tries to fight back, punching the woman holding it in the face. Which turns out not to be such a good plan. The chains make the damane feel any pain the sul'dam suffers, only more so, so any attempt to harm your mistress will only end up hurting yourself.

When the dust settles, Nynaeve and Elayne are gone, leaving Min and Egwene as captives. Egwene is a damane now, and her sul'dam's name is Renna. Renna seems to be the nicer sort of sul'dam, which means she's cruel and abusive and horrible, but she lets Egwene keep her name and only punishes her with excruciating pain for any misstep instead of killing her. What a saint.

Oh, it was Nynaeve who made that windstorm by the way, in case you were wondering. She and Elayne are out of sight, and the Seanchan are pretty nettled that they only gone one the two damane they were promised, especially now they've seen how strong Nynaeve is. Suroth says maybe they'll just take Liandrin instead to make up the difference, but Liandrin warns them that their master wouldn't like that? Who is their master? Probably Shai'tan, but maybe I'm wrong. Liandrin buggers off, and the Seanchan turn their attention to Min. Min's not a channeler(that we know of anyway), so as a captive she doesn't have a whole lot of value. The Seanchan decide they'll probably just kill her right there, but Egwene protests, even as she gets zapped with pain. Suroth figures that if it will get her to shut the hell up, they might as well let Min live so long as Egwene behaves herself. Then Renna zaps her again.

Renna explains the rules of the chain(called an a'dam), and here's the link to the wiki because I just can't be bothered to write it all down here. She makes Egwene do some channeling for her and zaps her again, because otherwise how would the reader know she was evil? Egwene is not going to enjoy this adventure very much.

Meanwhile, Nynaeve has just blasted some Seanchan chasing her with a bolt of lightning, because Nynaeve is not someone you want to mess with. She and Elayne are on the lam now, and they need to get new clothes to blend in so they can get to Falme and rescue Egwene and Min from the clutches of the Seanchan.

[Anteros]

Renna isn't so much evil as she is indoctrinated by her society to view people who can channel as less than human. Her society is definitely evil though.

Also yes, their master is the Dark one. That's no longer a secret at this point. The rank and file soldiers and Sul'dam don't know that though.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Oh, it was Nynaeve who made that windstorm by the way, in case you were wondering...

Meanwhile, Nynaeve has just blasted some Seanchan chasing her with a bolt of lightning, because Nynaeve is not someone you want to mess with.

That, or she's played a wizard before and knew which spells to prepare this morning. Plus it always helps when you get a good initiative roll!

[Psyren]

There's lots of spoilers in the wiki (several major ones even on the page you linked) so I'd be careful going there. It more or less assumes you've read through the books and you're there to clear something up that you noted in passing.

Meanwhile, Nynaeve has just blasted some Seanchan chasing her with a bolt of lightning, because Nynaeve is not someone you want to mess with.

Yeah - she's prickly as hell but definitely gets some of the largest Big Damn Heroines moments in the series I remember disliking her a lot when I was younger due to her irrational hatred of Moiraine in book 1 and constant attitude, not to mention her

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block subplot

which goes on waaaaaay too long, but once you get past all of that she's easily one of the best female characters in the series, behind Min and Moiraine themselves.

Min's not a channeler(that we know of anyway), so as a captive she doesn't have a whole lot of value.

She's not. If she were, living in the Tower for months (and in particular, being scrutinized by Brown sisters down to her toenails nearly every day of that time), somebody would have noticed her latency and stuffed her in white before she could say "Gryffindor."

Also yes, their master is the Dark one. That's no longer a secret at this point. The rank and file soldiers and Sul'dam don't know that though.

Yes, but also, not quite that simple. One of the cool things about this book is

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every major Darkfriend we come across, and even some from future books, was at Bors' Darkfriend Social in the prologue. They of course thought they were meeting Shai'tan, but we know better.

[An Enemy Spy]

Chapter 41: Disagreements

It finally happened. The cover on this old, ratty, very much loved by someone copy of The Great Hunt's cover has finally come off. It hung on far longer than anyone would have expected, but we live in universe ruled by the tyranny of entropy, and we all must succumb to it's grasp at point. Today it was this book's cover; in a hundred years we too will be gone. Only entropy itself is eternal. Farewell, book cover. We'll be together again in time.

Egwene isn't the only one who's not having a good time in Toman Head. Where Rand is it's raining, and that's no fun at all. Rand and Mat ask Verin to stop the rain, but she's a bit more preoccupied with not being found by the Seanchan, and isn't going to cast Control Weather just because Rand's a little bit damp.

The column stops in a village that has been emptied of people, and they work out what to do next. Ingtar doesn't believe the Horn is here at all, since why would someone trying to run away leave a note saying where they going? Rand takes a look at how many pages are left in this book, and decides that there isn't nearly enough room left for an adventure to completely different part of the map now. Pretty much everyone agrees with Rand here. Ingtar is a cool character, but he has much to learn about Conservation of Detail and how it pertains to story structure.

Rand goes to bed and sees the Dark One. "You're Lews Therin." "No I'm not!" Dammit Rand, it's the end of the second book. Will you get out of the Refusal of the Call stage already and actually develop as a character? This is so freaking tedious at this point. In this dream, Rand actually manages to channel the One Power and hurl it at Shai'tan with all his strength, which annoys the Dark One more than hurts him. He'd rather have Rand as a living servant, and it wouldn't serve for Rand to kill himself on accident in his sleep. Shai'tan buggers off and Rand wakes up. End of chapter.

[Misery Esquire]

Chapter 41: Disagreements

It finally happened. The cover on this old, ratty, very much loved by someone copy of The Great Hunt's cover has finally come off.

!

Oh no! Not the book! Anything but the book!

No worries on Rand refusing the call of a hero. He's definitely a hero. Otherwise we wouldn't have all these books, right? And he wouldn't be The Dragon, the reborn Lews Therin Kinslayer.

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Rand definitely isn't the one we need to worry about refusing the call. And for all that he groans about it, neither is Mat. Egewene is pretty pumped up about it... Which leeeeeaves...

[The New Bruceski]

Tor stands for Tear Off Readily. All their paperbacks lose the covers eventually.

[snowblizz]

Tor stands for Tear Off Readily. All their paperbacks lose the covers eventually.

It's the leverage really. Since each pocket book is about a foot wide due to book length the forces applied to the poor book cover each time you crack it open is immense.

[Psyren]

The column stops in a village that has been emptied of people, and they work out what to do next. Ingtar doesn't believe the Horn is here at all, since why would someone trying to run away leave a note saying where they going? Rand takes a look at how many pages are left in this book, and decides that there isn't nearly enough room left for an adventure to completely different part of the map now. Pretty much everyone agrees with Rand here. Ingtar is a cool character, but he has much to learn about Conservation of Detail and how it pertains to story structure.

I know you're joking here but also, there was a pretty clear prophecy at the beginning about Toman Head and Rand knows far more intimately than Ingtar just how obsessed Fain is with him personally, causing Fain's breadcrumbs strategy to make sense. So it's not totally contrived in-universe

Rand goes to bed and sees the Dark One. "You're Lews Therin." "No I'm not!" Dammit Rand, it's the end of the second book. Will you get out of the Refusal of the Call stage already and actually develop as a character? This is so freaking tedious at this point. In this dream, Rand actually manages to channel the One Power and hurl it at Shai'tan with all his strength, which annoys the Dark One more than hurts him. He'd rather have Rand as a living servant, and it wouldn't serve for Rand to kill himself on accident in his sleep. Shai'tan buggers off and Rand wakes up. End of chapter.

Rand's hesitation is a little understandable - he hasn't (consciously) fulfilled any prophecies yet. Everything that has happened so far, like his place of birth, could be a coincidence and could be manipulation. Once he sees his own actions mattering (or more accurately, not mattering), it makes a difference. He's overall responsible when push comes to shove.

[Anteros]

I know you're joking here but also, there was a pretty clear prophecy at the beginning about Toman Head and Rand knows far more intimately than Ingtar just how obsessed Fain is with him personally, causing Fain's breadcrumbs strategy to make sense. So it's not totally contrived in-universe



Rand's hesitation is a little understandable - he hasn't (consciously) fulfilled any prophecies yet. Everything that has happened so far, like his place of birth, could be a coincidence and could be manipulation. Once he sees his own actions mattering (or more accurately, not mattering), it makes a difference. He's overall responsible when push comes to shove.

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He definitely doesn't shirk his responsibilities at all, but be doesn't stop mentally running from them until the very end. That's a huge reason he goes so crazy pants in my opinion.

[georgie_leech]

Rand goes to bed and sees the Dark One. "You're Lews Therin." "No I'm not!" Dammit Rand, it's the end of the second book. Will you get out of the Refusal of the Call stage already and actually develop as a character? This is so freaking tedious at this point.

Be careful what you wish for

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He definitely doesn't shirk his responsibilities at all, but be doesn't stop mentally running from them until the very end. That's a huge reason he goes so crazy pants in my opinion.

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To an extent. He had a warped idea of what his responsibilities meant. He believed that the Dragon Reborn had to be hard to succeed, because hey, look at all the "soft" bits of him trying to make him not do what needed to be done. Pesky little things like love and happiness.

[snowblizz]

Be careful what you wish for

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To an extent. He had a warped idea of what his responsibilities meant. He believed that the Dragon Reborn had to be hard to succeed, because hey, look at all the "soft" bits of him trying to make him not do what needed to be done. Pesky little things like love and happiness.

Well the prophecies aren't exactly puppies and kittens for the Chosen One or the world. And that's best case scenario.

[georgie_leech]

Well the prophecies aren't exactly puppies and kittens for the Chosen One or the world. And that's best case scenario.

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Oh yeah, I'm not saying he's wrong to think that strength is required. His idea of strength though is very inflexible; sure, he's hard, but he could shatter when struck at the correct angle. Team Evil comes this close to succeeding at that several times.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Be careful what you wish for

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To an extent. He had a warped idea of what his responsibilities meant. He believed that the Dragon Reborn had to be hard to succeed, because hey, look at all the "soft" bits of him trying to make him not do what needed to be done. Pesky little things like love and happiness.

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Those two things combined with the fact that everyone including the Aiel were trying to manipulate him is one of the big reasons I think that the effect of the "taint" was horribly overrated in terms of his insanity. With all the stupid crap he goes through "EFF IT I am balefiring the crap out of Grendal's palace" is something of a reasonable reaction.

[Psyren]

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Those two things combined with the fact that everyone including the Aiel were trying to manipulate him is one of the big reasons I think that the effect of the "taint" was horribly overrated in terms of his insanity. With all the stupid crap he goes through "EFF IT I am balefiring the crap out of Grendal's palace" is something of a reasonable reaction.

Honestly,

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that was the sanest thing he did in a while at that point. He even explains it with perfect lucidity - when you're fighting a trickster, you don't sit across the table from them and shuffle your cards etc. You ignore their game entirely and just punch them in the face as hard as you can.

[Douglas]

Honestly,

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that was the sanest thing he did in a while at that point. He even explains it with perfect lucidity - when you're fighting a trickster, you don't sit across the table from them and shuffle your cards etc. You ignore their game entirely and just punch them in the face as hard as you can.

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No, first you sit down at the table so they think you actually are playing their game. Then you punch them in the face.