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    Default V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    And why is it [official]? Because it's the first after Giant closed the other threads for being competitive, duplicative, and spammy, and ordered us to move on.

    Now, to begin the discussion:

    I say, who cares? Live and let live. It's not like you can tell half the time with elves anyway. However, (s)he always struck me as having a slightly more masculine personality than feminine. Impatient (as far as a wizard can be, at least,) violent, arrogant...all frequently perceived as masculine (or at least Yangish) traits, and all emphasized in V at one point or another.

    Discuss. Politely.
    Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2008-02-05 at 05:48 PM. Reason: Good lord, I used a stupid honorific in this post. Now that people are paying attention to it again, I guess I'll fix it.
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    The only ansver to this is that people are much less gendered than some of you think. The traits you list above for V are not masculine, they are just human.

    Some societies and ethnic groups still think a woman is supposed inherently kind, meek and unambitious. That's just cultural baggage of a rather nasty kind. Gender racism.
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adeptus
    Gender racism.
    Wouldn't saying 'sexism' be simpler? Or do you mean something different?
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhavaer

    Wouldn't saying 'sexism' be simpler? Or do you mean something different?
    It would be - but it lacks the rhetorical punch added by invoking racism.

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland St. Jude

    It would be - but it lacks the rhetorical punch added by invoking racism.

    Hahahaha, oh snap.

    My comment resposted from just before the last thread closed:

    Vaarsuvius as a character fascinates me. I find I really, really care what gender he is, and thinking of him as a male makes me have a different attitude to thinking of... her, as a female.

    Being that I didn't formerly buy the feminist crap that gender makes a fundamental difference to my perceptions of people (Or at least anyone I don't actively want to have sex with), Im sort of surprised. And now I find I don't want to know what gender Vaarsuvius is, cause I find his actions more interesting without the framework...

    Im definitely overanalysing this, and Vaarsuvius is a fictional character so it's dumb. Still, does anyone else find him/her more interesting in some way because you don't know what gender he/she is?

    Of course, being that Vaarsuvius is an interesting and intelligent character with a three-dimensional personality, I think it's fairly safe to assume he's not female.

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Having dated someone whose gender I didn't know until we ended up in bed I can safely say it doesn't make a bit of difference.
    You like someone or not. You fancy someone or not.

    In V's case, we have someone with an outspoken mind, someone who I know I would love to be friends with, who would drive me nuts as a lover, and who I definitely wouldn't want as an enemy.
    Those feelings won't change because I suddenly know V's gender.

    V is genderqueer, undefined and taht does, sort of, make V more interesting.
    If gender was suddenly revealed, it woudl posisbly just be a dissapointment, beause the mystery would then be gone.

    So while this discussion itself is interesting I am not sure what we are trying to establish here?

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    personally, even if she's agressive and stuff, I see her as a female. I think she does become quite "male"ish when his/her friends are acting stupid again. But if (s)he is male why would haley go in the same room when they go at an inn or similar?

    also some considerable evidense is on the OOTS comic #123.

    therefore, my point of view is that either V is a female, an "it" or...likes guys...
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    At one point or another I mentioned that it would make sense for V to be male, so that Haley could be the only girl in the party - I also share the opinion that I have never heard the unbridled arrogance V displays on a woman before. Then again, I'm not an elf.

    Also, it would make sense for Haley to feel safe rooming with V because she knows that V's married, whether or not they share a gender. And it isn't as if she wants to pay for her own private room...

    Out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard Haley refer to V by gender? His, hers, or other such? That seems like it would be the surest clue. I'll have to reread the archives for the seventh or eigth time...

    That said, V is just as interesting as a genderless character, in my opinion, and I don't actually have an emotional stake in the issue. Anyways, off to do that whole archive thing - peace all.
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    Having dated someone whose gender I didn't know until we ended up in bed I can safely say it doesn't make a bit of difference.
    :o

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    Wow. Badass without being flashy and showy, attractive while remaining classy. Bravo Dhavaer.

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    Having dated someone whose gender I didn't know until we ended up in bed I can safely say it doesn't make a bit of difference.
    It might just be me, but that's something I would have liked to know before the pants hit the floor.
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by storybookknight
    I also share the opinion that I have never heard the unbridled arrogance V displays on a woman before. Then again, I'm not an elf.

    I've known several girls who've had the same kind of personality that V has. However, I too think that V's personality would most likely belong to a man. (Not that it couldn't possible belong to a woman though...)
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    V is probably a woman. The fact that her arranged marriage was to a man seals it, along with her need to be roomed with another woman.

    also, it could be non-gendered, but who wants to find out ??? (anyone who does has a sick, sick mind.)
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by tomspeeder22
    The fact that her arranged marriage was to a man
    ... is not a 'fact'. Where does it say that?
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    Having dated someone whose gender I didn't know until we ended up in bed I can safely say it doesn't make a bit of difference.
    You like someone or not. You fancy someone or not.
    And the more power to you!

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adeptus
    The only ansver to this is that people are much less gendered than some of you think. The traits you list above for V are not masculine, they are just human.

    Some societies and ethnic groups still think a woman is supposed inherently kind, meek and unambitious. That's just cultural baggage of a rather nasty kind. Gender racism.
    That's rather hyperbolic, Adeptus. *True, some gender roles are socially constructed, but there are many differences between males and females which arise from natural bioloical facts. *Besides which, there's nothing inherently bad about males and females being different from each other in generally consistent ways, nor about some traits being more common in males than in females. *The only wrongness comes from using those differences as a source of oppression.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    Having dated someone whose gender I didn't know until we ended up in bed
    Whoa... seriously? *If you don't mind my asking, how was it that this person's gender was so obscured? *Did they have a particularly unusual manner of dress, or very non-descript features, or what?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomspeeder22
    V is probably a woman. The fact that her arranged marriage was to a man seals it,
    What are you talking about, Tom? It was never stated that V's mate was a man, nor, as far as I know, that the marriage was arranged. Are you confusing Vaarsuvius with Hilgya?
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Knight
    you don't mind my asking, how was it that this person's gender was so obscured? Did they have a particularly unusual manner of dress, or very non-descript features, or what?
    My date's appearance was androgyn, and dressed in such a way as to make it hard to guess gender (short cut hair, loose shirt and trousers, etc). Could have been a guy, could have been a girl.
    Now, I could make a guess, but I wasn't sure. And I could have asked, but since we both had already agreed that gender was not really a factor, I didn't, figuring I would find out later.

    Many people have an aversion to the mere idea of a sexual relation ship with a man or a woman, so I guess they would be troubled.
    If you set that thought aside, if you, so to speak, don't mind to dance with a boy or girl, then gender just becomes fluff. You can safely have a crush for someone you meet without being emberrased later on. It's a lot easier, really.

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Okay I think Vaarsuvius is a girl, and know that she is a guy.

    Yes that sounded really wierd.

    I think she is a girl, because that was what I first interpreted her as being on reading the first comic, and what I thought she was for at least 150 comics, probably more around 290 (whenever I started reading these forums is when I changed my mind) I had this interpretation for one, and only one reason. Specifically, in the 3.0 D&D core rulebooks, there is an elven wizard, who is female, as such all elven wizards are female until proven otherwise for me. Also said Mialee the wizard acts sort os like Vaarsuvius, further reinforcing my assumptions, and later comics such as the Elan's weapon of choice, and #123 reinforced m assumption.

    Now I know that she is a guy because Rich Burlew actually said it in these forums. Go back to the very last page in the comics forums and read every thread. Thats what I did, and somewhere there Bogotter the modotter said he thought V was a she and EVERYONE disagreed, and then Bogotter the Modotter made a thread about how he was wrong when Rich typed V as a he in the animal companions thread.

    In conclusion, I don't care. I know V is a he and yet still whenever I see someone say V as a he I automatically correct it in my mind thinking, thats wron its she, and a second later remembering, oh wait, nevermind they are right.

    Wow that was a really long post, hope its not too conusing
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrasius
    Okay I think Vaarsuvius is a girl, and know that she is a guy.

    Yes that sounded really wierd.

    I think she is a girl, because that was what I first interpreted her as being on reading the first comic, and what I thought she was for at least 150 comics, probably more around 290 (whenever I started reading these forums is when I changed my mind) I had this interpretation for one, and only one reason. Specifically, in the 3.0 D&D core rulebooks, there is an elven wizard, who is female, as such all elven wizards are female until proven otherwise for me. Also said Mialee the wizard acts sort os like Vaarsuvius, further reinforcing my assumptions, and later comics such as the Elan's weapon of choice, and #123 reinforced m assumption.

    Now I know that she is a guy because Rich Burlew actually said it in these forums. Go back to the very last page in the comics forums and read every thread. Thats what I did, and somewhere there Bogotter the modotter said he thought V was a she and EVERYONE disagreed, and then Bogotter the Modotter made a thread about how he was wrong when Rich typed V as a he in the animal companions thread.

    In conclusion, I don't care. I know V is a he and yet still whenever I see someone say V as a he I automatically correct it in my mind thinking, thats wron its she, and a second later remembering, oh wait, nevermind they are right.

    Wow that was a really long post, hope its not too conusing

    Oh my god...not again. >.<

    Rich Burlew uses the word he when referring to Vaarsuvius, but the Giant has also stated that Vaarsuvius does not have a determined gender and that his/her perceived gender changes from strip to strip.
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Woah... I forgot I was registered here. Anywho:
    My date's appearance was androgyn, and dressed in such a way as to make it hard to guess gender (short cut hair, loose shirt and trousers, etc). Could have been a guy, could have been a girl.
    Now, I could make a guess, but I wasn't sure. And I could have asked, but since we both had already agreed that gender was not really a factor, I didn't, figuring I would find out later.
    If you don't mind me asking, what was you partner's discovered gender?

    Concerning V, I have no real arguement either way. When I fisrt read the comics, I always perceived her/him as male. It came as quite a shock when I visited these forums and found a heated debate over V's gender. Of course, this entitled a re-read of the comics.
    Though I now see that there is not much evidence either way, when I read the comics, I also picture V with a male voice. Ah, well [/my 2 cents]

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Simple.

    Varsuvius is a guy. Otherwise, he would have been 'Varsuvia.'

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    I have a mildly unrelated remark -- one reason while I love OotS AND the forums is, that really cool people are hanging around here. I like you folks (what gender you ever choose to be...)

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rinion
    Woah... I forgot I was registered here. Anywho:
    If you don't mind me asking, what was you partner's discovered gender?
    It turned out my first guess (I changed my perception a few times during the date) had been correct.

    Btw I originally did think V was male due to the name, but since elf names likely do not follow the same pattern as ancient Rome, I don't think it proves anything in the end.

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    It turned out my first guess (I changed my perception a few times during the date) had been correct.
    What an impressive way to dodge the question.
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by bluish_wolf
    What an impressive way to dodge the question.
    900 years of experience must count for something.

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor

    My date's appearance was androgyn, and dressed in such a way as to make it hard to guess gender (short cut hair, loose shirt and trousers, etc). Could have been a guy, could have been a girl.
    Now, I could make a guess, but I wasn't sure. And I could have asked, but since we both had already agreed that gender was not really a factor, I didn't, figuring I would find out later.
    Thanks for the explanation. I was just curious since with most people you can tell pretty much right away.

    Quote Originally Posted by tee_kay_one
    I have a mildly unrelated remark -- one reason while I love OotS AND the forums is, that really cool people are hanging around here. I like you folks (what gender you ever choose to be...)
    Aw, thanks tee_kay_one. And I agree, the vast majority of posters on this board are great, it's a really nice community. (Especially compared to a lot of the nonsense that infests most internet forums.) So I will echo your sentiment. :)
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    I do know some very... "masculine" females and some very... uh... "feminine" males, and I always thought V was a Guy... but when Haley Bunked with hir in the Inn, I thought...hm and then, while discissing over MSN with Drake Dragonslayer (he still active?) I pointed out #116 and inside the same second we both said "SHE CAN SEE!". So either V's a she, V's a guy who "likes guys", or the Marriage between V and the unmet spouse is very secure.
    The main pro-she argument, I think, is still that Pompeii is a he.

    BTW Doctor, very clever... and I have to ask, what was it like Filming with Queen Victoria?
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Before I started reading the Forum I never doubted that V was a guy. It didn't ever occur to me, that there might be a debate... ;D

    A classical education will do that... (any name ending with -us has to be male) But a friend of mine never doubted that V was a girl and he was also quite astonished when he discovered the debate. So I suppose that it's entirely in the eye of the beholder... ;)

    But just for statistical purposes I asked several other people (who don't read OotS) for their opinion and they all said 'female'. So I suppose I'd count as the odd one... 8)
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Ok, I'm going to show my points of why V is a female. One, V hangs out with Haley. And V could be the girlfriend of Haley that she shares her secrets with V. Two, V loves to drag out speeches. Most to all females love to talk and seem to never stop, you should hear my girlfriend *::). (That's not a bad thing, I still love you sweetie :-*) And in "On the Origins of the PCs." and when V breaks the table, Roy says that V is hired. And V says "Bah!! You are clearly only hiring me because I intimidated you intellectually, to the point where your masculine *pride requires you to establish your dominance over my superior mind." *Because a lot of women feel that they are smarter men and that men have dominance over them. So with that, V must be a female.
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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    gender expressions are overrated. maybe v's player just doesn't care about the gender of their pc. how does gender effect a character and game play? other than -2 on disguise checks.

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    Default Re: V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJet31619
    Ok, I'm going to show my points of why V is a female. One, V hangs out with Haley. And V could be the girlfriend of Haley that she shares her secrets with V.
    Sure, "could" be, but V could also be the sensitive male friend that Haley finds non-threatening. We also know that Haley tends to have trouble getting along with other females.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJet31619
    Two, V loves to drag out speeches. Most to all females love to talk and seem to never stop.
    Maybe, but they typically don't talk like V does, but rather more like this. ;D It's a more typically masculine thing to go into long, know-it-all explanations of every little thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJet31619
    And in "On the Origins of the PCs." and when V breaks the table, Roy says that V is hired. And V says "Bah!! You are clearly only hiring me because I intimidated you intellectually, to the point where your masculine *pride requires you to establish your dominance over my superior mind." *Because a lot of women feel that they are smarter men and that men have dominance over them. So with that, V must be a female.
    This is inconclusive too. V could just be very aware of how most people's minds tend to work, male or female, and his understanding of Roy's psychology could have come from being a male himself. Besides, being derisive of that way of thinking doesn't mean he's more likely to be female--I myself am a male and very much attracted to women, but I find a lot of people that could be called "stereotypical males" to pretty much just be jackasses.
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