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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Assassin89's Avatar

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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    I have one...but it is kind of risky.

    Grab V's lower regions
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  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    IMO V probably actually has a gender, but at the end we will find out. That will be how he gets ULTIMATE ARCANE POWER!, by saying, Actually, I am male/female.
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  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    At first I was going to comment on how long it's been since I've seen a V's gender thread, but instead I'm going to say "Holy thread necromancy batman!"

  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Assassin 89 View Post
    I have one...but it is kind of risky.

    Grab V's lower regions
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  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Scion_of_Darkness View Post
    Well I love the mathematical approach to determining V's gender. However I feel V is female based on a different methodology.

    1. In strip 123 Haley decides to room with V as opposed to any other party member. If the party was all male there would be no reason to chose V. In fact Haley would more likely have chosen Elan to satisfy her hidden crush.
    2. You could also make the case that since Pompay is male V would be female. Not only would Pompay have a gender identity, but he would also be the opposite gender. I will admit that this is argument is weak.
    3. In strip 335 when V explains her hypotheis involving Belkar's brain, all the given examples under the "lust" catagory are female. If V was male there little worry about Belkar lusting after her.
    4. In strip 385 a disguised Sabine goes to a Azure City bar and starts asking V "Why are all men such pigs??" I don't know for certain but I can't imagine a women going up to a man and asking a question like that. That seems more like a women to women question. Admittedly I have little to no experience with bars, drunks, or vexed women.
    Sadly most of those tie in to what each character believes the gender of to be. Just because Haley, Sabine and any other character believe V to be female doesn't make it so. Read the FAQ

    And the whole problem with Belkar "lusting" after V may not be an issue of gender identity, but rather of the fact that V is marriedand (according to panel 10)seems to be rather faithful to his/her mate.

  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    will he have time to scream out the answer before he dies? Just make sure he doesn't do it while V is playing a sport like lacrosse or wrestling!

  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame Master Axel View Post
    People use the random height and weight generator?

    I always assign it based on the character. If I'm building a heavy muscle man, I don't want to roll a one.
    I do this as well. Which makes my 5" 11", 130lb, 16con d20 modern character all the cooler.

  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Clearly the only way to learn the truth is for Belkar to put points into Knowledge: Reptiles and boost that WIS score, so he can remember what the lizard looked like down under.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
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    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Scion_of_Darkness View Post
    Well I love the mathematical approach to determining V's gender. However I feel V is female based on a different methodology.

    1. In strip 123 Haley decides to room with V as opposed to any other party member. If the party was all male there would be no reason to chose V. In fact Haley would more likely have chosen Elan to satisfy her hidden crush.
    An argument that I have heard for this is that Haley has known V the longest, and knows that, because of her gender ambiguity-style nature, would be the least likely to try and seduce her.
    ...

  10. - Top - End - #400
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    I went through to 270, looking at V closer and this is what I came up with.

    Male

    V-Man in Strip #09
    V is gay according to B's comment in Strip 28
    Linear Guild Members are greatest opposites of character. Thog is dumb, Nale is smart. Sabine is a slut, Hilgya is gender opposite (Worships Loki so is still Nordic.. #52), Yikyik is a kobold. By the same logic V who talks so long as to put the enemies to sleep and known for ranting, has Zz'drti be silent.
    #124 does Mr Burns line.
    #173 asserts he is a wizard. Wizard is predominately male. He also corrects Sorcerer/Sorceress technicality prior.
    V is checked by B in #177, guessing from the fact he saw something means it was probably a 'v' shaped set of dots. Meaning male. Judging from his comment he saw something that was neither obviously male or female to him, and because nothing would be of no merit, V is male.
    #186 does not fret about barely covered nudity in front of the boys.
    #238 Misses Haley's point big time in a boy's confused manner...

    Female

    Rooms with Haley in #123. Breast joke on V, but taken out of perverted context it means nothing.

    Notes

    V's boot comment does not infer a gender, but this 'fashion sense' does seem to match up with V being gay in B's eyes.

    V avoids bathroom in #87

    #223 the term mate is ambigious... Not exactly fits either due to race.

    #123 and #225 do not count for either gender as even Miko puts the V with the women. Maybe someone never got around to reading up on D&D sexuality, but in terms of protection and sleeping conditions V is a balancer even ambigiously.



    So based on what we consider in terms of the Inn, if V was a girl then it would be 4 boys and 2 girls to #123. 4 boys and 3 girls in #225. Yet the ambiguous nature leans more towards V being a boy. 5 boys and 1 girl would be a bit lopsided and its probably not in anyone's best interest to have a woman sleep alone in a potentially dangerous area, V is sexually ambigious and trusted most by Haley and is a power house of a mage who doesn't actually need to sleep. Something deeper must exist between humans and elves since Miko also chose V to room with the girls at first.

    At this point... it just seems overwhelming for V being a boy, ambigious yes, but so much lines up for it. Mentally V is superior and has a great capacity for empathy, but this does not mean anything in terms of gender.

  11. - Top - End - #401
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Scion_of_Darkness View Post
    1. You could also make the case that since Pompay is male V would be female. Not only would Pompay have a gender identity, but he would also be the opposite gender. I will admit that this is argument is weak.
    : "Hey! A clearly-established gender identity! He is an evil opposite! Now get away from my woman, Ear Boy." (#254 Half the Elf, Double the Fun)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scion_of_Darkness View Post
    1. In strip 335 when V explains her hypotheis involving Belkar's brain, all the given examples under the "lust" catagory are female. If V was male there little worry about Belkar lusting after her.
    There are one or two holes in V's theory. Shojo and Elan, for example.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

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  12. - Top - End - #402
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Manga is correct about the gender identity of Pompay.

    The second one is just as scary if B is into V, especially if they are both boys. It is one of those comments that go either way. V's theory about Hate and Lust seems to vary between Kill and Indifferent. He is not regularly trying to get with Haley and simply co-exists. A drunken B is probably as close as you can get to actual 'lust' from the likes of him. I'm going to say V underestimates his mind way too far, stemming from the trauma.

    Going by their earlier exploits you can forget associating the theory to gender, though either way the thought is sickening to all but the most cruel and chaotic beings in the world, fanfic writers.

  13. - Top - End - #403
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    No, Vaarsuvius is e^(i*phi) (1/sqrt(2) |male> + 1/sqrt(2) |female>), while es mate is e^(i*phi) (1/sqrt(2) |male> - 1/sqrt(2) |female>).

    So you see, while they're both perfectly androgynous, they're also of exactly opposite gender. And my apologies to anyone who actually understood what I just said.
    Are you implying that the eigenstates of gender for elves are orthogonal to those for humans? Or that this is just a special case for androgynous couples? I can't recall--have any elves in OotS been identified in a gender-specific manner? I would guess "yes", but I don't remember (and 600+ strips are a lot to look back through)!

    Personally, I imagine that V and V's spouse (VS) share an entangled gender state:

    1/sqrt(2) (|V=male>|VS=female> - |V=female>|VS=male>)

    ...but I doubt that Rich will ever give us a measurement that would collapse their wavefunction!

    EDIT: Added benefit of this state--both V and VS remain androgynous until it's obvious who is what, at which point they are of opposite genders regardless of who's gender was determined!
    Last edited by dzerostar; 2008-11-24 at 10:08 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #404
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Set up an antimagic field then grab V's lower regions. That or have someone immune to disintegrate or any other magic do it.
    Last edited by Assassin89; 2008-11-24 at 10:08 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #405
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by dzerostar View Post
    I can't recall--have any elves in OotS been identified in a gender-specific manner? I would guess "yes", but I don't remember (and 600+ strips are a lot to look back through)!
    First I too thought that this is the case with all elves, but sorry... Look at the Crayons of Time.
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  16. - Top - End - #406
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantMage View Post
    V-Man in Strip #09
    As Rich said in the FAQ, that is only Roy's perception, not necessarily the truth.
    V is gay according to B's comment in Strip 28
    If Belkar thinks V is gay, then that's only his perception. In addition, it's not really clear if he's implying V is gay there, or if he's saying "I always suspected...[that V was female]". Some people read it that way, so it's possible. Either way, it's not conclusive in the slightest.
    Linear Guild Members are greatest opposites of character. Thog is dumb, Nale is smart. Sabine is a slut, Hilgya is gender opposite (Worships Loki so is still Nordic.. #52), Yikyik is a kobold. By the same logic V who talks so long as to put the enemies to sleep and known for ranting, has Zz'drti be silent.
    I don't see how this is evidence for V being male?
    #124 does Mr Burns line.
    Which doesn't prove anything...
    #173 asserts he is a wizard. Wizard is predominately male. He also corrects Sorcerer/Sorceress technicality prior.
    Maybe, but still inconclusive.
    V is checked by B in #177, guessing from the fact he saw something means it was probably a 'v' shaped set of dots. Meaning male. Judging from his comment he saw something that was neither obviously male or female to him, and because nothing would be of no merit, V is male.
    Who says he saw something? It's not clear what he saw, only that he doesn't know if it means male or female.
    #186 does not fret about barely covered nudity in front of the boys.
    V was behind the dragon, they couldn't see V's body. There was no need to fret.
    #238 Misses Haley's point big time in a boy's confused manner...
    Wrong comic, V isn't in 238. Which one did you mean?
    Rooms with Haley in #123. Breast joke on V, but taken out of perverted context it means nothing.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydro Globus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dzerostar
    I can't recall--have any elves in OotS been identified in a gender-specific manner? I would guess "yes", but I don't remember (and 600+ strips are a lot to look back through)!
    First I too thought that this is the case with all elves, but sorry... Look at the Crayons of Time.
    Well some elves, like Lirian, have an obvious gender, whereas others (most noticeably ones in the prequel books), look more androgynous.
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  17. - Top - End - #407
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Roy's perception...

    If V goes to such great lengths to correct a speech technicality, you would think something about gender would be equally deserving, and also the fact that colloquial speech is something that V has issues with. It just seems odd to me that hitting two sensitive nerves would be ticked if the male comment wasn't accurate.

    As for Belk, I guess you could say it works for both genders, but the look is rather unique. Shocked by Haley, disgusted by V. How far of a stretch is it?

    Linear Guild was a nod to whatever bizarro doppelganger source you want to choose from. You keep the same main aspects and invert the other one.

    Bard -> Enchanter. Dumb Good -> Smart Evil.
    Elf -> Dark Elf. Rants -> soft spoken

    This is why Zz's replacement is funny, because a clear gender is another opposite of V. Call it a stretch again, but I saw a connection.

    And I'll try to clarify for #177. The fact of the matter with lizards and Belk's observation is that he doesn't know what he saw. Which is rather easy to infer, since boys have a defining trait girls don't. In lieu of this (and I am serious about lizard anatomy here), the lack of a clear answer for the usual methods leads to a check of spots or no spots. Logically he saw something to make his observation about not knowing what he saw, and it could be inferred he saw the 'V' shaped (coincidence?) dots that would be there if V was in fact male, otherwise a pure nothing would be female.

    #177 closes it for me that V is male. With just a few minutes of searching I came across either an amazing coincidence that corresponds to name and gender by seeing something and not nothing, and that something noted by Belk was perhaps the single strongest evidence to go on.

    The issue with the bedrooms as described previously just seems to assert it with this train of thought that lines up way to eerie with V being homosexual and male. Going on the perhaps crude fashion jokes, but confusion about Haley's comment on Roy's transgendered escapade. The attention to a clearly male moniker and about a twenty other circumstantial pieces not mentioned in this list that continue to point in the male direction.

    Whatever you want to call V, I'm sticking with my disturbing, yet calming conclusion based on four years of exploits with no definitive answer.

  18. - Top - End - #408
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Does Giant calling V "him" count as evidence?
    V is speaking Lizardese, but he can still say "Feather Fall". He does not know the Silent Spell feat.
    And so far, all teleportation spells have been suspiciously absent from the elf's repetoire. The rest, just aren't in his spellbook yet.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...493#post211493
    Last edited by Eloel; 2008-11-25 at 11:53 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #409
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    I like how this was done, but you don't have to randomly generate your hight and weight. You can usually choose them if you want.

  20. - Top - End - #410
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by ozgun92 View Post
    Does Giant calling V "him" count as evidence?

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...493#post211493
    Good one, found another.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=493

    This was the interpretation of the battle against Miko.

    Though I hate to use something like this as back up evidence. :/
    Last edited by ErrantMage; 2008-11-26 at 12:11 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #411
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender


  22. - Top - End - #412
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Yeah... like anyone would believe it

    Also, I think Vaarsuvius has the same hard time knowing a human's gender as we do with h** gender (proof is when Roy uses that belt).
    GENERATION (-0.558792 + 0.603306 i)+c. If this is the first time you see this copy it into your signature, square the generation and add c. Fractal experiment.

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  23. - Top - End - #413
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydro Globus View Post
    Also, I think Vaarsuvius has the same hard time knowing a human's gender as we do with h** gender (proof is when Roy uses that belt).
    Agreed.

    I think trying to pick over minutiae to assign a gender to Vaarsuvius is pretty pointless, when it's much simpler to just conclude that zie just doesn't fit into the binary gender model. It's not really a very interesting debate anyway.

    A much more interesting question for me is whether Vaarsuvius is consciously choosing to subvert the gender binary (and zir various comments on gender and zir unawareness thereof are just part of the means of subversion), or whether zie is truly unaware of gender as humans perceive it (and therefore zir comments stem from true ignorance).

  24. - Top - End - #414
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    I vote ignorance. I can't imagine Vaarsuvius as someone who goes out of h** way to subvert some idea of some (mostly magicless) humans.
    GENERATION (-0.558792 + 0.603306 i)+c. If this is the first time you see this copy it into your signature, square the generation and add c. Fractal experiment.

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  25. - Top - End - #415
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    V has never had a good gender grasp. Those two at the Inn ( one for haley and one for Roy) were proof of that.

  26. - Top - End - #416
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by nleseul View Post
    Agreed.

    I think trying to pick over minutiae to assign a gender to Vaarsuvius is pretty pointless, when it's much simpler to just conclude that zie just doesn't fit into the binary gender model. It's not really a very interesting debate anyway.

    A much more interesting question for me is whether Vaarsuvius is consciously choosing to subvert the gender binary (and zir various comments on gender and zir unawareness thereof are just part of the means of subversion), or whether zie is truly unaware of gender as humans perceive it (and therefore zir comments stem from true ignorance).
    Why does your 2nd paragraph contradict your 3rd?

  27. - Top - End - #417
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydro Globus View Post
    I vote ignorance. I can't imagine Vaarsuvius as someone who goes out of h** way to subvert some idea of some (mostly magicless) humans.
    I agree. Since gender seems to be largely irrelevant in High Elf culture 99% of the time, it's likely V just doesn't care about that particular aspect of his/her identity and doesn't bother correcting others when they get it wrong.

    As for the inn incident, something just occurred to me. I'm not sure if this is canon DnD lore but a Baldur's Gate II mod I once played mentioned that elves focus insanely much on the inside and the personality and don't really pay attention to what's outside all that much. It sounds like elves would be slow to notice changes in physical appearance. Thus, V was able to spot the peculiar piece of garb - the cleaning mop - when prompted, but didn't notice the anatomical changes.
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    If this has already been said, then I apologize. If not, Ha! Beat you to it.

    Doesn't anyone think that V could be lying about his/her weight? After all, V also lied about his/her age. Which actually leads me to believe that V is vain and thus more stereotypically female. And Yes, Girls out there, I Know that some guys do it too. Please refer to me saying that this is a stereotypical activity for girls.
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  29. - Top - End - #419
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Lkctgo View Post
    If this has already been said, then I apologize. If not, Ha! Beat you to it.

    Doesn't anyone think that V could be lying about his/her weight? After all, V also lied about his/her age. Which actually leads me to believe that V is vain and thus more stereotypically female. And Yes, Girls out there, I Know that some guys do it too. Please refer to me saying that this is a stereotypical activity for girls.
    If Vaarsuvius were that vain, chances are he wouldn't let himself come to look the way he does now.
    In any case, if we assume that V lied about his age, that alone isn't proof that he must have lied about his weight as well, and therefore is vain, and therefore is female. It's likely V had very concrete reasons for pretending to be younger than he is.
    Last edited by Kaytara; 2008-12-23 at 03:13 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #420
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    Default Re: An alternative method of finding V's gender

    I know something that is relevant about this thread
    Spoiler
    Show
    It will be closed for necromancy. It has been over three weeks since it was last posted to and it has fallen past page 3
    Last edited by Assassin89; 2008-12-23 at 09:41 PM.
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