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  1. - Top - End - #811
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    [TS] Shadow's Avatar

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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Starscream View Post
    Edit:
    Y'know, like this! Even has a "possessed by evil" moment that matches how Darth V should sound.
    It's a little too high-pitched to be truely gender-neutral, probably because Raven is obviously a girl. If it were a little lower it could work though.
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  2. - Top - End - #812
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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias Funke, from the "Man Inside Me"
    And for the ease of the reader, I have changed all the gender-related pronouns— “he,” “she,”— to the masculine “he.”

    "The Man Inside Me." For Lindsay: My rock. I could not have done this, without him.”


    Spivak? A pretentious futurist expression that make people sound like they're speaking bad Cockney.
    "Ey's a good fella, ain't ey? Ah, ey loves em, ey does. Why, ey's a chiminey sweep, ey is. And a fine one at that, ain't ey?"


    Why not just use the singular they? Yes, it's technically incorrect grammar, however, it's still common usage in spoken English when referring to a non-gender or unidentified gender object.

    I imagine French OOTS fans must boggle when discussing Vaarsuvius.

    Though I do remember reading a sci-fi/comedy novel once which raised a good point - if we ever discovered an alien race neither male nor female, "it" would be the only acceptable English pronoun, as "he" or "she" would be deeply insulting.
    Last edited by skim172; 2009-06-04 at 09:37 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #813
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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by [TS] Shadow View Post
    Seriously, though, can we get a title change on this thread? This is just begging to get kicked off, and seeing as we're not actually discussing V's gender it doesn't need to be.
    Done. Is this better?

  4. - Top - End - #814
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Tova View Post
    I think of V as male, so I use masculine pronouns. If I'd thought of V as female, I'd use feminine pronouns.

    If it's good enough for the OOTS cast, it's good enough for me. And I figure that if V actually cared about how he is referred to, then he would clarify the matter.

    And yeah, stuff like "hir" and so forth just looks kind of silly to me, and draws too much attention to itself.
    I try to use strudture my sentences so that I do not use a pronoun to refer to V. Notice in my previous sentence I just used an abbrivation for Varsuvius's name instead of a pronoun.

    If I absolutely must use a pronoun then I use the female pronouns because I am in the V's a girl camp.
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  5. - Top - End - #815
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    [TS] Shadow's Avatar

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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    Done. Is this better?
    Yeah, this is good. Thanks.
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  6. - Top - End - #816
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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post


    Spivak? A pretentious futurist expression that make people sound like they're speaking bad Cockney.
    "Ey's a good fella, ain't ey? Ah, ey loves em, ey does. Why, ey's a chiminey sweep, ey is. And a fine one at that, ain't ey?"
    I pretty much had the same first thought. Reading the wikipedia article I read the examples as:

    I 'ugged em!
    Eir 'art warmed!

    For some reason I think of Cockney as using excessive exclamation points. That is somewhat troubling.


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  7. - Top - End - #817
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    Meh, I'll stick to her correct gender pronoun.
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  8. - Top - End - #818
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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by MickJay View Post
    I'm quite happy with using "he" in its function as pronoun for undefined gender; I find it less confusing (regardless of situation) than any of the dozen of monstrosities spawned by poorly thought-out PC.

    While I'm pleasantly surprised that this isn't another of the "I know V's gender" threads. In any case 99% of those discuss V's sex, not gender...
    Good.

    ...Oh, we were talking about the disambiguation...
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  9. - Top - End - #819
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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    Why not just use the singular they? Yes, it's technically incorrect grammar, however, it's still common usage in spoken English when referring to a non-gender or unidentified gender object.
    I like it. Plenty of linguists approve of singular they, as well as the Canadian Dept. of Justice. (I'm from the USA, so I am glad to be guided by our more civilized neighbors to the north.)

  10. - Top - End - #820
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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Starscream View Post
    Here's a related question; what do you think V's voice sounds like?

    I imagine that s/he sounds a little bit like Tara Strong voicing Raven from Teen Titans. Too deep to be definitely female, too high to be definitely male, slightly monotonous and very intelligent sounding. And Strong is just about the one voice actor I know who voices almost as many male characters as female.
    Odd, I hear her as having a kind of whiney, pompus voice and overemphasising words, especially when annoyed.
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  11. - Top - End - #821
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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Zanaril Taru View Post
    Odd, I hear her as having a kind of whiney, pompus voice and overemphasising words, especially when annoyed.
    So you can't imagine V saying "Evil beware, we have waffles?"

    Perhaps doilies would be more appropriate.
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  12. - Top - End - #822
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    I see V as male. I use he when referring to him... sometimes I'll alternate he and she, but usually just for comic effect.

    It doesn't bother me when people refer to V as female, but it really annoys me when people use the idiotic politically correct pronouns to refer to V.

    Political correctness has a tendency to foster resentment towards an entire group because one member demands you use one word instead of another, often when you meant no offense. In these scenerios, I tend to show the person what I would've said if I DID intend to insult them...

  13. - Top - End - #823
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSummoner View Post
    In these scenerios, I tend to show the person what I would've said if I DID intend to insult them...
    Good show!

    I'm content with "they", since it's just an extension of the use of an already existing word, rather than making one up.

  14. - Top - End - #824

    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by HamsterOfTheGod View Post
    Now humans see Orc is better. Orc grammar smash other languages. Orc not need stinking pronoun.

    Plus Orc not need gender difference. Orc man smash! Orc woman smash! Never know how Orc date gonna turn out.

    You know, you actually have a point.

    Me say us all speak orc, so no have problems with gender pronouns.
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  15. - Top - End - #825
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    V's gender can only be found by a cat. But until the cat dies or lives, we will never know.

    All in all, methinks we will never know, even after the end of the comic, if such a thing ever happens.

    That being stated, is it truly important what pronoun or mix of pronouns are being used? While it has been stated as confusing, I, for one, have never been confused who we were reading about when I saw a mixed pronoun. When we mix with other Schrödinger elves, then things might get a bit confusing... but we are smart, we will figure something to call theö.
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  16. - Top - End - #826
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    I've always thought of V as a guy, since Roy called him V-Man I've never thought of him as anything else, so I just use masculine pronouns. I agree that hir and such look silly. The one that drives me nuts (or would, if this was SRS BUSINESS, but it's not, so it just vaguely annoys me) is "shi", which is not at all a combination of "she" and "he".

  17. - Top - End - #827
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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    FWIW, I use "ve" or "vir" because I've found it comes in handy for scenes with more than one gender-ambiguous elf in them. Kyrie is "ke" or "kir", V's mentor would be "ae" or "aem", etc. That way, you can immediately tell which elf a given pronoun is referring to.
    Last edited by Rotipher; 2009-06-05 at 07:02 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #828
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    Simanos's Avatar

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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Thajocoth View Post
    The point of pronouns is usually to use shorter words when the person you're communicating to already knows who or what you're referring to. V is shorter than any pronoun, so I use V in place of pronouns for V. Or, rather, I do not use pronouns in place of V when referring to V.
    I try to do that too. The only problem is sometimes the brain uses "he" sort of automatically because it sees "V" but it reads "Vaarsuvius" and thinks that "V" isn't sorter than "he". Weird.

  19. - Top - End - #829
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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by MickJay View Post
    I'm quite happy with using "he" in its function as pronoun for undefined gender; I find it less confusing (regardless of situation) than any of the dozen of monstrosities spawned by poorly thought-out PC.

    While I'm pleasantly surprised that this isn't another of the "I know V's gender" threads. In any case 99% of those discuss V's sex, not gender...
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  20. - Top - End - #830
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    I either use the one that's less confusing (the opposite of any other characters I'm also talking about) or use she.

    However, I'm ashamed to admit I sometimes type "hir" without thinking about it. Someone shoot me.
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  21. - Top - End - #831
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    I tend not to talk about V that much, but when I do, it's always "she." I always think of her as female. Heck, I didn't even know she was supposed to be ambiguously gendered until the Azure City arc. How I missed all the obvious clues, I have no idea.

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  22. - Top - End - #832
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
    I tend not to talk about V that much, but when I do, it's always "she." I always think of her as female. Heck, I didn't even know she was supposed to be ambiguously gendered until the Azure City arc. How I missed all the obvious clues, I have no idea.
    Same here, except I didn't know it was supposed to be ambiguous until I started reading these forums after 550+ strips.
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  23. - Top - End - #833
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    I like to use she for a couple reasons. One she is the correct pronoun. Two when discussing something I can use pronouns more often. For example of team evil and team good we have in the female column: Haley, V and Tsukiko. In the male column we have: Redcloak, X, Durkon, Elan, Roy, and Belkar. Makes my life easier.

    P.S. I would also like to point out we don't really need pronouns for V. We can call V "V" when a pronoun like he or she is called for and "V's" when her or his is needed.
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  24. - Top - End - #834
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    Although I instinctively use the masculine with V, I have a couple of random thoughts:

    Random thought 1: has no trouble with pronouns for V because his accent clips the first consonant sound anyway! (most of the time)

    Proposition 1: Everyone on the forums adopts written Dwarvish accents.

    Proposition 2: Fayd is an idiot. :-P

    Random thought 2: Perhaps elves DON'T HAVE the traditional 2 genders.

    What? I said it was random!

  25. - Top - End - #835
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    I'm not bothered by whatever pronouns people choose to use. Perhaps it's because I'm not a native English speaker, but there's nothing that sounds inherently right or wrong, be it he, she, s/he, he or she, zie, hir, they, em, ey, eir, or whatever people can think of, and I'm not offended at all when people suggest new usages. The only thing that bothers me a little, is all the contempt and hostility here against 'the politically correct' , but I guess some people will always have a problem when others don't think exactly like them.

  26. - Top - End - #836
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderCat View Post
    I'm not bothered by whatever pronouns people choose to use. Perhaps it's because I'm not a native English speaker, but there's nothing that sounds inherently right or wrong, be it he, she, s/he, he or she, zie, hir, they, em, ey, eir, or whatever people can think of, and I'm not offended at all when people suggest new usages. The only thing that bothers me a little, is all the contempt and hostility here against 'the politically correct' , but I guess some people will always have a problem when others don't think exactly like them.
    But the people who use 'he' or 'she' don't normally object when others use "she, zie, hir, they, em, ey, eir, or whatever"...well if they do it's usually only because they believe V is a 'he' or 'she'.

    It was the OP, who said "I've seen all kinds of nonstandard pronouns used to refer to Vaarsuvius. Stuff like "Hir" "Vim/Vis" and "Shim". These stopgap pronouns are awkward, confusing and ugly. We should be using Spivak pronouns..."

    It's the OP who had a problem with the usage of others. It was the OP who suggested the conformity of the nonconformist. The suggestion was phrased mildly but the suggestion itself carried its own "hostility", as you call it. It's no surprise people responded the way they did.

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    Last edited by HamsterOfTheGod; 2009-06-05 at 06:00 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #837
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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mask View Post
    I think we should use it for Vaarsuvius' pronoun. It is already grammatically supported. Besides, elves are in the Monster Manual, meaning they can be addressed as "thing" or "creature".
    then again so are Dwarfs, gnomes, and halflings
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  28. - Top - End - #838
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    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    I refer to her as she because, like Blue Ghost and PId6, that's how I thought of her before I realized it was supposed to be ambiguous. I don't find the esoteric collection of pronouns used at all annoying; indeed I'm always amused to find a new one. I had just assumed that a poster using such a pronoun was (like, I suspect, the author) undecided as to whether V was male or female. And I assumed that people who used 'he' assumed that V was a male.

    Reading this thread, it appears these assumptions were wrong; people's pronouns sometimes don't reflect their view of V's gender (it is late and I'm too tired to go find quotes, but I noted a couple of examples in this thread). It seems that someone might use 'he' to reflect a neutral rather than a male gender, while another might use a neutral pronoun for political correctness (or, more generously, out of respect for the intended ambiguity of the character), despite their own firm view that, say, V is female. Though I suspect that anyone who uses the female pronoun does actually think V is female.

    I agree with Hamster that it doesn't really matter what pronoun is used, with the proviso that clarity is maintained. I've not yet seen a case where it isn't.
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  29. - Top - End - #839

    Default Re: V's Gender (pronouns)

    Thank god for this thread.

    Hir and ze and stuff are nonsense and using them is awful.

    Any other pronoun is fine, and alternating them is fine. "V" is also an excellent alternative (easier to type, easy to say, and not a pronoun but a nickname anyway).

    I always used "she," but recently I find myself using "he." I'm not sure why.

  30. - Top - End - #840
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: V's Gender

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfTW View Post
    When referring to V and someone else, I use the opposite pronoun. So for Xykon and V, I use feminine. For V and Haley, I use masculine.
    What do you use when referring to V and Kyrie?

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