Vow of the Forsaken (Player-friendly paladin who has broken their oath) [PEACH]

[Rerem115]

I know it's a bit late for me to chime in, but I'm of the opinion that Desolate Blade is too strong. While it does technically compete for a slot with any of the smites, it has considerably more power than other options available to paladins. Divine Smite does 4d8 damage at 3rd level and Blinding Smite does 3d8; by comparison Desolate Blade can do up to 20d10+20 damage, assuming that the paladin hits every round. While I know that it would be difficult to land that many attacks and it requires concentration, the spell grants +1 to hit, making it easier to stack the extra damage. As for the concentration? Paladins already get up to a +5 bonus for all saves, making maintaining concentration easier for them than any other class.

I would probably drop the damage to 1d8 and get rid of the attack/to-hit bonus. If you really are fond of that, however, the original spell's 1d4 would probably be best.

[DracoKnight]

I know it's a bit late for me to chime in, but I'm of the opinion that Desolate Blade is too strong. While it does technically compete for a slot with any of the smites, it has considerably more power than other options available to paladins. Divine Smite does 4d8 damage at 3rd level and Blinding Smite does 3d8; by comparison Desolate Blade can do up to 20d10+20 damage, assuming that the paladin hits every round. While I know that it would be difficult to land that many attacks and it requires concentration, the spell grants +1 to hit, making it easier to stack the extra damage. As for the concentration? Paladins already get up to a +5 bonus for all saves, making maintaining concentration easier for them than any other class.

I would probably drop the damage to 1d8 and get rid of the attack/to-hit bonus. If you really are fond of that, however, the original spell's 1d4 would probably be best.

I'm not too worried about desolate blade since it's been a staple of our group for as long as I can remember - and I've seen it in action and used it multiple times. It has the potential for a lot of power, but I DM'd a game with a Paladin/Warlock multiclass (previously the only way to get it on a paladin) and I didn't find it to be game breaking.

Thank you for your concern, though!

[sajro]

This is as a concept alone a really good idea. I have seen other solutions to simply just ignore the oath or similar due to 5e's forgiveness. But this is a really cool idea to give people an option for oath-breakers that make sense for the players to play.

The channel divinity options seems balanced and cool, however the "Path is open" feature seems a bit odd. Not a major problem, I am just not sure why.

The 7th level feature seems cool. I however feel it unnecessary to specify the shape of the weapon. (In this case the spectral blade from a hilt)
Maybe just describe that it then takes a shadowy or radiant form instead? The reason is I can't get the image of a spectral warhammer out of my head and that seems weird. xD

Everything else seems cool, and fitting. Nice with many options that are actually opposing to further point to the fact that this is an oath for those who would stop at nothing to help the weak.

[DracoKnight]

This is as a concept alone a really good idea. I have seen other solutions to simply just ignore the oath or similar due to 5e's forgiveness. But this is a really cool idea to give people an option for oath-breakers that make sense for the players to play.

The channel divinity options seems balanced and cool, however the "Path is open" feature seems a bit odd. Not a major problem, I am just not sure why.

The 7th level feature seems cool. I however feel it unnecessary to specify the shape of the weapon. (In this case the spectral blade from a hilt)
Maybe just describe that it then takes a shadowy or radiant form instead? The reason is I can't get the image of a spectral warhammer out of my head and that seems weird. xD

Everything else seems cool, and fitting. Nice with many options that are actually opposing to further point to the fact that this is an oath for those who would stop at nothing to help the weak.

Thank you for voicing your issues with the wording of the 7th level feature - I've cleaned it up

Also, thank you for your general feedback, I'm glad this is something you like

DESIGNER'S NOTE: the path is open comes from a session where it was almost a complete TPK (including the king of the realm who was played by a party member), except for the Oath of the Crown paladin. She laid several cloaks on the ground and fashioned them into a makeshift sled. She placed all of the party members on the cloaks, and began dragging them back through the dungeon. She got to the entrance just as a villain from her past (the assassin who murdered her parents) was locking the door shut. She dropped her makeshift sled (and left the king she was sworn to completely vulnerable to attack) and proceeded to attack this rogue out of sheer rage. The DM decided that this broke her oath, and that after this combat she would need to repent, or become an Oathbreaker.

She ended up killing him after 7 rounds of harrowing combat, and was at like, 3 hp when the fight ended. She asked the DM if she could expend her Channel Divinity to unlock the door (with -1 DEX, she's crap with thieve's tools), and he said "Sure." So divinely blowing open the door, she escaped.

Finding herself without remorse for abandoning the king to kill her adversary, the DM ruled she would become an Oathbreaker or a fighter, unless another option was presented to him. I made this for that purpose.

Another note: The Path is Open works on locks in general, so if you come across tortured slaves, or you party has been incarcerated, you could free them - which fits with the theme of the Forsaken.

[sajro]

Well that definitely makes it much much more clear as to the reason behind the option, and with the fact that it works on all locks, makes it much more thematically fitting. I am happy tou were that quickly to respond, with such a fulfilling answer. :)

And the new 7th features wording, is better in my opinion and objectively it is shorter which is a good thing. Less to read, less to puzzle about. xD

[DracoKnight]

Well that definitely makes it much much more clear as to the reason behind the option, and with the fact that it works on all locks, makes it much more thematically fitting. I am happy tou were that quickly to respond, with such a fulfilling answer. :)

I'm glad I was able to clarify for you, and that you're now satisfied with the option I try to respond in a swift manner with I have homebrew up for review

And the new 7th features wording, is better in my opinion and objectively it is shorter which is a good thing. Less to read, less to puzzle about. xD

Less confusion is always better!

[DracoKnight]

Any more comments, questions, concerns?

[DracoKnight]

I made a couple of tweaks that reflect how things needed to be changed after play in an actual campaign.

[Zeros]

A little thing, and I'm far from the most experienced in this I'm basically just getting my feet wet with looking at other's homebrew so feel free to correct my thinking...

Anyhow this particular 'oath' has a lot of stacking damage... 1d8 from desolate blade, another 1d8 from Forsaken blow, 1d4 from Clarity of Purpose, with the option to put more damage on top from both Divine Smite and Life and Death.

Admittedly thats a lot to burn in one minute, but you don't see a lot of options to pull that out. You can end up dealing on an average, using Divine Smite w/ Life and Death, more than 76 damage with the singular attack and you could do another one at -25 damage right after. (2d6+2d8+1d4+6d8+25+6)

[Ugganaut]

Hate the idea of breaking your oath means you've turned completely evil, so love this idea.

I like the flavor, and the spell selection. Desolate Blade seems unnecessary, but not OP. Personally I'd take off the +1hit/damage, the d8 extra damage on every hit no matter the target is good enough imo.

I do agree with Zeros, that this does allow too much stacking. Desolate Blade takes the Hex concentration slot, so don't have much issue there. Forsaken Blow is the big one for me, I wouldn't allow that. No concentration, increase to max damage at low levels. Vow of Enmity grants advantage to one target only, which only increases reliability, not max damage. Same with Sacred Weapon. I like the "1's are treated as 2's" for that reason, the max damage isn't effected, only average. Personally I'd go a Sacred Weapon style, with the +Cha to hit, and 1's treated as 2's on weapon damage rolls.

Life and Death I liked. Felt a little clunky, but good. I'd make it a reaction on Crit/Kill, and have it recharge the healing pool, and do +1d8 on next attack before the end of your next turn. Its once per short rest, so can't be abused(but brings it down from 25 possible extra). The healing isn't a free action, requires another action to use Lay on Hands, which I think is a good thing.

Clarity of Purpose, I didn't think the 1d4 extra damage was necessary, but also at this level its not going to overpower anything either I think.

Overall I really like it, nice work DK :)

Edit: Just realized how late I am replying to this.

[DanyBallon]

Late to the party, but I would do a simple modification to the Path is Open Channel Divinity feature; I would ad the same text in the Knock spell where as it provoke a "loud Knock, audible as far as 300 feet".

This line was added in order to prevent magic from being better than mundane skills. And I think it should apply to this feature as well.

[Sariel Vailo]

i wanted to play a drow who had forsaken lolth so this fits im not bad and even vengence fits about only so welll my dm had me pick a new god.and iwas like can i say i swore an oath of vengence thats why i can do this. he a first time dm said no