The Elder Scrolls XI: Wouldn't Want To Be Elsweyr

[Aeson]

Out of curiosity, is there an in-universe explanation for why all those military forts are named in the same 'fort ___moth' pattern? I mean, why -moth?

If there is one, I cannot recall ever having come across it.

One of the random greetings you get from strangers in Vivec is "It's not so bad once you get used to it", and I found that to be true.

I agree, but on the other hand I tend to find myself with little interest in staying in Vivec very long, so I tend not to.

Also, this came up in relation to the map being unhelpful. "Spend time getting to know the area and it's not an issue" is not really a counterpoint to the map being worthless; a map is supposed to be there so you don't need to be familiar with a place in order to find your way around it.

Even though it still takes forever to walk from the Temple to the Foreign Quarter.

It would've been nice if the Cult altar in the Foreign Quarter was something you could teleport to with Divine Intervention. If I'm spending a while in Vivec, I tend to just place a mark down in the Foreign Quarter or whichever other Canton I think I'll be running back to a lot, and use Almsivi Intervention and Recall to cut out some of the walking. It's probably not actually faster, especially if I'm not looking to get to the Temple Canton or wherever I put the mark.

[LibraryOgre]

No one sane walks in Vivec. That's why you have Levitation.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

No one sane walks in Vivec. That's why you have Levitation.

^This. I also made use of Mark and Recall*. And jumping down the sides of the cantons. It will be interesting to see the city in ESO if/when they put in Vvardenfell.

*Why did they get rid of those spells in later games? They don't do you any good unless you've already been to the place you're Marking, so you can't bypass monsters the first time through a quest. And if they want a cutscene for a quest in a place you've already been just say there's an anti-magic ward there or something. Or just let us keep Divine Intervention so we can only pop into established Shrines. The NPCs get to portal all over the place, why can't I?

[Illven]

Spoiler: America Super size edition!

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Shortly after the sleep, I needed a nap. Figuring I knew what that meant, I was not surprised to see that I had woken up yet again stronger and tougher. When I went back to Earth. Would I keep this? How strong was I. Strong. Near the human limits. Superhuman at this point. I did not know, and had no way of knowing.

Of course that wonderment was swiftly ended when I re-entered Ulummusa. A cave between Balmora and Pelagiad. The dunmer scout I had tangled with previously was no big threat to me, but the Nord swinging a warhammer around, brought bad memories. Memories swiftly proven right as he caved in my skull with one hit.

I hate hammers. I hate hate hate hammers. Were my thoughts as I entered the black void from before. This time my sheer rage and hatred for those two handed axes and hammers the scum of the earth awakened me from death far before I hit any forcefield, or saw the light.

Bypassing the cave this time, I met a dark elf man named Nelos, who begged me to kiss him. At least he was honest when I asked if he was under any curses or not that had to be cured with true love's kiss. Since he was not, I left in disgust, though he suggested that in the future if I needed training I could go to the Half Way Tavern in Pelagiad. I shuddered as I tried to imagine what his training would be.

Eventually I reached Vivec. Feeling a bit poor I raided both the Fighters and the Mages Guild's equipment chests, and sold or hid what I didn't need. Grabbing a potion of levitation from the Mages guild apothecary I proceeded to make my way deeper into Vivec.

Reaching the temple steps I donated the levitation potion I had brought, to stimulate when Vivec stopped the moon that some daderic prince tried to hurl into the world. Stopping it in mid-air he told his followers it was held up with love for him, if the faith of the followers ever faltered it would crash onto the world..... Which I really hoped was metaphorical because that's really really horrible. When my potion faded away, I... I felt so energized. Like I could handle anything.... As all my cares and worries faded away I realized I could fly. Right the grace would give me the ability to fly for a day. Spending a few moments in a child like state of glee, I simply flew around, before attempting my next task.

Starting to climb up the temple stairs I marveled at the building at the end of it. It was large, and grandiose, what purpose did the temple have for that building I wondered. I thought I'd be going into it. Something called, but the shrine was actually just outside the building. Putting a pile of gold at the base of the shrine, as the gold disintegrated I felt Vivec's words in my ear, at my lips, at my back. There wasn't any obvious effects like the grace of daring, but I felt... supported somehow.

Wandering in the sewers under the grand building the temple had built, I searched for the shrine of courtesy. Battling rat after rat, after rat, I eventually found the site entering it I was amazed by the forcefield that seemed to be up on the wall right above the entrance. Wondering if that was important somehow, I read the shrine.

Which told me to drown myself...... Well. I suppose for other people it was a test of faith... I mean I'm like 95% sure I'll just come back if I mess up. So sticking my head in the water, and in all violation of common sense, I breathed in, and proceeded to pass out.

Coming to, not in a black void but on the flat area right in front of the shrine I realized I was becoming quite cavalier about my own life. I should probably stop doing that, I certainly didn't want to get into the habit of doing so when I returned home. A little pessimistic voice whispered to me, if. Frowning, I looked around and noticed the forcefield had disappeared, and a path had opened up from the platform, to the area behind the force field. Seeing a dremora, I immediately whipped out my crossbow.

But I heard Vivec's voice say no, and guide my hand. Stowing it away I cautiously approached the Dremora..... Who was the most sarcastic asshat I had ever met. Snarking about how meek and powerless he was, and how amazing and powerful I was, he begged me to give him a sword to even out the battle between us, pointing to a chest with his right thumb.

Searching the chest I found 4 Silvered longswords, talking to him again I could just feel his will to live draining away with what he saw as a dumb ritual. Giving him the sword so that he could get on with his life, I touched the shrine as I felt... the ability to breathe water, and swim even faster then before. The Dremora practically shoved me out of the true shrine's area in his haste to be done.

Deciding to take the grace of justice, I headed to the foreign quarter of Vivec. While there some guy shoved a pamphlet right into my head, I didn't even read it. I honestly didn't care. I was a woman on a mission.

To take the mages guild to Ald-ruhn, and the silt strider back to Gnisis. From there it was a short walk to the Gnisis temple where the shrine of justice was. This grace demanded a cure disease potion. Placing it at the base of the shrine.. I felt my mind expand, as I could feel the power to cure others diseases, with a touch bristling common or blight at my fingertips.

With the power of the grace of daring beneath my feet I was able to simply walk over the river to the south of Gnisis. The side of Gnisis had an easy slope, but the other side. The side with the grace of valor had an imposing cliff that I would not be able to climb under normal circumstances.

The shrine was right at the entrance of the cave. Donating a piece of Dreugh wax, I felt my armor hardening up. Fortifying me, and protecting me, while still not impeding my movement. The shrine called to me. Called me to prove my valor above and beyond my coming here. To venture deeper into the cave and slay the Dreugh warlord. I was an experienced adventurer, and thanks to the grace of courtesy I could breathe just fine in the underwater sections.

The cave had plenty of pearls which I greedily collected.... Of course that left an opening for the Dreugh warlord to attack me. I tried to fend him off, but... my crossbow wouldn't work under water. And he outmatched me in melee. As one of it's tentacles wrapped around my neck.... That was the third time I died....

I took the silt strider to Ald-ruhn in shame. The operator tried to talk me out of my funk, but as appreciated as it was, it didn't really work. On the way I no longer felt the Tribunal supporting my feet and giving me wings....

Deciding that I needed a weapon upgrade for the shrine of pride, I brought a Steel mace from the fighter's guild, selling them my old iron mace, before going to the mages guild and getting teleported to Balmora's guild.

Okay... I know I just got a weapon upgrade, but while buying a soul gem for the shrine.... I just couldn't resist this sweet magical mace called Snowy crown.... Hey, now I didn't need to even carry an axe for when I fought enemies immune to normal weapons.

Making my way South east to get around the mountains before going northeast, a storm of red dust appeared, it made it hard to move, and it made it so hard to see.... As I moved further I saw a Daderic ruin.... But I couldn't bring myself to explore it....

You know.... I don't really see why Adventurers complain about cliff racers so much. I mean you keep an open eye out, and even in a storm, you just shoot them with bolts until they die. Does no one carry ranged weapons?

Not so far from the Ghostgate, I realized I needed sleep. Settling down I wondered what I would find at the Ghostgate.

[Aeson]

Stopping it in mid-air he told his followers it was held up with love for him, if the faith of the followers ever faltered it would crash onto the world..... Which I really hoped was metaphorical because that's really really horrible.

There are some things in the game that suggest that at least some portion of the Tribunal's power comes from the belief of the people in them. It isn't something which is definitely the case, and it's possibly just something which was made up to justify the Tribunal being worshipped as gods or to explain their ascension instead of having to admit to getting their power from the Heart of Lorkhan, but still, it's there. It also seems reasonably clear from future events that Vivec's power is what keeps the moon in place, and so if Vivec's power fails for long enough the moon will resume its fall. What isn't clear is whether the failure of Vivec's power would cause a sudden descent and resultant devastating impact or a slower descent with less damaging results.

The cave had plenty of pearls which I greedily collected.... Of course that left an opening for the Dreugh warlord to attack me.

This is why I'm ambivalent about the Koal Cave shrine. If you can acquire a piece of dreugh wax beforehand, there are no issues. If you can't, there are dreugh that you can kill in the area, but it's a pain to do it.

Also, when you feel confident in your ability to kill the dreugh warlord, I'd suggest returning to Koal Cave, killing the warlord, and then making an offering at the shrine.

You know.... I don't really see why Adventurers complain about cliff racers so much. I mean you keep an open eye out, and even in a storm, you just shoot them with bolts until they die. Does no one carry ranged weapons?

I can't speak for anyone else, but for my part cliff racers are closer to being a constant irritant than an actual problem. It can get to the point where it seems like you're encountering one every few steps, and that there's one (or two, or three, or five) at the top of every ridge or hill.

There's also times, especially for characters who rely on the character's magical capabilities for ranged combat, that you're low enough on resources that you just don't want to deal with minor threats like cliff racers proactively. If you only have one or two Restore Magicka potions left, are the fireballs it takes to down cliff racers really worth the magicka? If you've run out of basic ammunition, is it really worth spending Dire Firestorm Bolts on cliff racers? Mark, Intervention, and Recall are pretty well designed to deal with this, of course, but sometimes you have your mark set somewhere and don't want to move it, or you think that you're just about to reach the place you're looking for, the place that's the only reason you're out this far into the middle of nowhere in the first place, so why bother with the mark? Just make do for a little longer and you can just Intervention out and not worry about needing to find your way back.

[Comet]

Out of curiosity, is there an in-universe explanation for why all those military forts are named in the same 'fort ___moth' pattern? I mean, why -moth? I can think of almost no creature less intimidating than a moth, a small, fuzzy, soft, winged nocturnal insect that feeds on nectar. The only vaguely important moths I can think of are the ancestor moths, but why would they reference them for a military base?

Moths are a symbol of power for the Empire. Regular moths signify prosperity, since their silk is one of Cyrodiil's primary exports. Ancestor moths signify knowledge, since they're used in all manners of esoteric transfers, ranging from ancestral memories to reading the elder scrolls to dreamsleeve communication and beyond.

[veti]

The cave had plenty of pearls which I greedily collected.... Of course that left an opening for the Dreugh warlord to attack me. I tried to fend him off, but... my crossbow wouldn't work under water. And he outmatched me in melee. As one of it's tentacles wrapped around my neck.... That was the third time I died....

I took the silt strider to Ald-ruhn in shame.

If you're, what, level five-ish? I haven't been counting, sorry - then a regular dreugh would probably be a level-appropriate encounter for you about now, but the warlord is way tougher than that. It's a bit of a shock, for this low-level quest to invite you to take on such a strong opponent - but on the other hand, it is clearly labelled as an optional extra.

You know.... I don't really see why Adventurers complain about cliff racers so much. I mean you keep an open eye out, and even in a storm, you just shoot them with bolts until they die. Does no one carry ranged weapons?

Everyone and his dog carries ranged weapons, but as Aeson says, the cliff racers that are a minor annoyance now do become more plentiful later on. By the time you're level 20, it'll feel like there are whole swarms of them coming at you.

There's also times, especially for characters who rely on the character's magical capabilities for ranged combat, that you're low enough on resources that you just don't want to deal with minor threats like cliff racers proactively. If you only have one or two Restore Magicka potions left, are the fireballs it takes to down cliff racers really worth the magicka?

I don't think I'd try that, even with a mage character. Enchanting is where the (magickal) power is in Morrowind. If necessary, remember you can enchant items yourself in the field, and everyone carries a few spare bits of jewellery and soul gems around with them, so if there's a spell you really want to cast? - create a new ring or amulet for it.

But arrows are cheap and light, and with a bound longbow it only takes one to bring down a racer. (And the bound longbow itself can be summoned by a ring that recharges quite fast enough that it will, realistically, never let you down.)

[Triaxx]

I've seen a few characters do an awful lot of damage with throwing weapons.

[Aeson]

Enchanting is where the (magickal) power is in Morrowind. If necessary, remember you can enchant items yourself in the field

I'm aware of that, but sometimes I'd rather play a wizard than a walking jewelry box with more rings than can be found in all of New York City. I realize that the Temple of Morrowind Playstyle Optimization will probably send out its Ordinators to hunt me down for heresy for saying this, but some of us would rather play a spellcaster who actually relies on their own magical abilities rather than a "spellcaster" who could dispense with any pretense of studying any magical art other than Enchant (and maybe Alchemy, because if you want to make high-end enchanted items in Morrowind without paying an enchanter, home-brewed Fortify Intelligence potions are quite useful) without any loss of ability, no matter how much more optimal it is to do your spellcasting with enchanted items than with your character skills and magicka reserves.

I don't think I'd try that, even with a mage character.

I would say that Destruction as your ranged weapon is better on characters who primarily rely on nonmagical modes of combat than on primary spellcasters, especially if you want to be able to afford to sling spells at minor threats like Cliff Racers. If your preferred method of dealing with opponents is to run up to it and hit it with a sword, and the only other demands on your magicka are at most an occasional blessing, healing, or summoning spell, tossing a few fireballs at Cliff Racers wasn't going to be that much of a burden, and carrying around a handful of Restore Magicka potions (particularly home-brewed ones, which tend to be considerably lighter than the standard varieties) isn't that much of an issue.

everyone carries a few spare bits of jewellery and soul gems around with them

"Everyone" does, do they?

[Illven]

"Everyone" does, do they?

I will say I tend to carry around as you put it. "more rings than can be found in all of New York City"

Then I usually proceed to forget I have them 50% of the time and start shooting arrows/bolts at the thing.

I however, rarely carry soul gems.

[To the point that on one of my other files I didn't have a soul gem for the ghostgate shrine. I consoled commanded that problem away.]

[veti]

I'm aware of that, but sometimes I'd rather play a wizard than a walking jewelry box with more rings than can be found in all of New York City. I realize that the Temple of Morrowind Playstyle Optimization will probably send out its Ordinators to hunt me down for heresy for saying this, but some of us would rather play a spellcaster who actually relies on their own magical abilities rather than a "spellcaster" who could dispense with any pretense of studying any magical art other than Enchant

Yeah, I've seen this argument before.

You'd "rather" play a wizard - fine, you can play what you like, but as you acknowledge, enchanting is the optimal way to play a magic user. If you choose to ignore that, you're choosing to handicap your character.

And if that means cliff racers become a serious problem rather than a mild nuisance, you did that to yourself.

It's like - you absolutely can play Skyrim as a pacifist, that's perfectly within the rules. But if you then complain about the special problems that playstyle creates (and this subthread started with the observation that adventurers "complain" about racers), you're somewhat missing the point.

[Aeson]

And if that means cliff racers become a serious problem rather than a mild nuisance, you did that to yourself.

Who said anything about cliff racers becoming a serious problem? The only time I'd ever consider cliff racers a serious problem is if you're already mostly dead from something else, your weapons are all broken, you're out of magicka, and you either aren't carrying dozens of assorted rings and amulets or whatever you are carrying are all out.

They're a minor nuisance; when resources run low, you don't bother dealing with them proactively because, well, if they come in and attack, you can deal with them with a sword or whatever your melee weapon of choice is fairly easily, and unless you're already near death they're still not a threat.

You'd "rather" play a wizard - fine, you can play what you like, but as you acknowledge, enchanting is the optimal way to play a magic user.

I disagree. Enchanting is the mechanically-optimal way to use magic, it is not the optimal way to play a magic user. If you want to play a master enchanter, then sure, focus on enchanting and collect all kinds of trinkets that shoot fireballs or whatever else you want. Great, you're playing the mechanically-optimal magic user and you've created an optimal enchanter. If you create the same character and tell me that it's an optimal conjuror or evoker build or something like that, I'm going to say you're full of it unless it also happens to be the case that the build focuses on Conjuration or Destruction in addition to Enchant. It does not matter that casting spells by using enchanted items is the mechanically-optimal way of using magic; the optimal build for a conjuror or an evoker or whatever is the build that focuses on the skills related to what the character is supposed to do, not the build which focuses on the skill that allows a character with the right items to act as though they had the skills appropriate for the role. Can a guy who focused on enchanting emulate a conjuror or an evoker or whatever with his enchanted items? Sure. Is it mechanically more optimal than actually focusing on what your character is supposed to be good at? Possibly. Is it the optimal build for the role? No, not unless by "evoker" you mean "an enchanter who likes trinkets that cast fireballs."

To the point that on one of my other files I didn't have a soul gem for the ghostgate shrine.

I've done that before. I've also shown up with soul gems other than petty, which can be at least as painful as showing up without any soul gems, especially if that selection of gems includes Grand Soul Gems; the shrine will take one of each type of soul gem you have in your inventory when you make an offering, and if you don't remember to drop the gems you don't want to donate before you go up to the shrine, well, let's just say that Grand Soul Gems are a bit hard to replace.

I will say I tend to carry around as you put it. "more rings than can be found in all of New York City"

Then I usually proceed to forget I have them 50% of the time and start shooting arrows/bolts at the thing.

Veti's claim is not only that you'll have an enchanted item for the situation but also that if you do not have an enchanted item for the situation you'll have an unenchanted trinket and at least one filled soul gem to make one. It also ignores that Enchant levels pretty slowly unless you're shelling out for training or blowing through soul gems recharging things, and that it takes a pretty decent Enchant skill and Intelligence score to raise the chance of successfully creating even fairly minor enchantments above "why bother."

[Illven]

Spoiler: The sin (virtue?) of pride

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My rest was interrupted by a Kwama forger. It... was swiftly dealt with before I went back to sleep. Waking up to the red storm, I sighed as I started to move towards the Ghostgate. On the way there, I fought a rat that must have been diseased. Thankfully it was just diseased, and not blighted, and I had plenty of scrolls to deal with that.

As I saw Ghostgate, I saw two pilgrims that were camped a few hundred yards from it. Talking to them about our grand religion they brought up a Dagoth Ur as a Satan like figure. He was the evil, the source of the blight, deep within Red mountain. He.... didn't sound like someone I wanted to fight with.

As I approached closer to the fence, this nasty buzzing sound appeared in my head, disorienting me closing my ears did nothing to help. Wondering who the hell would make this fence, I mused on how it would be useless against Blighted cliff racers who could simply fly over it. Maybe the noise dis-oriented them just as much as it did me? But still you'd expect a few to stumble over it.

Entering the Ghostgate buildings I saw a few merchants hawking their wares as the last chance to shop before entering Red mountain. I didn't buy anything, but I got directions from a temple official. The shrine of pride was in the Red mountain area, slightly ahead and to the west of Ghostgate, pass the gates that would allow us to move into the blighted region.

Wandering around Ghostgate dome more, I saw a room of at least a dozen shrines.... One called to me. The shrine of Saint Nerevar.... It called to me, and yet... It wasn't a Siren's call. More of a “hey get over here, look at me!” The impatient command of someone who had no authority. Touching it out of curiosity.... I felt like... I should have felt something... But There was nothing.

Standing just outside the gate, I sighed as I pressed the pedestals to open it, stepping cautiously into the Red mountain region, the gates closed behind me.... That's when the creature that looked like a gray grannie shot a trail of sparks at me. An ash slave. Ducking and weaving it's spells, I was surprised to note that my bolts could actually damage it. I assumed the servants of Dagoth Ur would be immune to normal weapons.

I was further surprised when it shot it's trail of sparks at me, right before I had fired, too late to mentally call the action, the bolt flew forward and impacted the spell... Stopping it where it stood. I had a new method of fighting magic users!

Eventually the ash slave ran out of magic, and it rushed forward, limping from the wounds my crossbow had caused. It fell in a few strikes to my mace once it drew close. I looked at it's corpse, deciding that touching it was probably an easy way to give myself the blight, I simply left it there on the path.

Venturing forward it was ash slave after ash slave, as my life force was whittled with lucky strike after lucky strike from the ash slaves. Or the cliff racers that would descend from the skies to attack me when I was busy with the ash slaves, or the times multiple ash slaves would attack me at once.

Eventually I needed a nap, and woke up to find myself stronger and tougher then before, but Red mountain was wearing me out, I just wanted to be done with this place, find the shrine donate the soul gem and use my amulet to get out.

Venturing deeper into Red mountain I saw a mine. The Yassu mine, figuring it was deserted due to the blight, I wandered passed it, looking for the shrine, I could finally venture to the west, a break in the sharp cliffs, but the shrine was still nowhere to be found as I battled ash slave after ash slave.

Eventually I reached the western edge of the ghost fence. Where was this damn shrine... The path went south... maybe it was that way? Moving towards the south I continued to do my best to handle these blighted cliff racers lurking in the red storm.

As I went to the south, I saw my path blocked by the Ghost fence on one side, and cliffs on the other two. There was a mine. The Panabanit-Nimawia egg mine. Holding in my side to ease the pain, I wandered in.... Maybe the shrine was in there.

Fighting a blighted Kwama warrior that still lived in the mine, I winced in agony as solid blows cracked some ribs. But even with all that I was able to conquer my foe, not touching it so I wouldn't develop the blight, I started moving into the mine.

That's when I saw a corpse, some poor pilgrim I wondered. As I saw the poor pilgrim, a second blighted kwama warrior noticed me and rushed towards me. Grabbing what I could off the corpse, I realized I was dis-oriented, in agony, and.... I... I just couldn't do this anymore. Maybe this was tribunal will telling me to check out the Imperial cult. Grabbing at my amulet I focused as felt myself warp.

Into more chaos and confusion. It was late, it was dark, it was a friggin blight storm where the hell was I!? Stumbling out of the fort, I walked in a random direction. It wasn't until I hit the yellow carapace wall that I realized where I was Ald-Ruhn! I could go to the fighters guild and sleep.

Of course as soon as I enter the Fighter's guild quartermaster tries laying the moves on me. I'm sore, covered in blood that some of which is mine. I'm not pretty right now. There was no need to hit on me. Snarling at Percius Mercius I proceeded to go to bed.

Spoiler: Read after the update

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So it was early morning awhile ago when I did this part, I still remember. Getting to Ghost gate, getting the info. Getting lead in the opposite direction from where I wanted to go by a ***hat NPC. Fighting Ash slave, after Ash slave, after cliff racer. Mary's confusion when she divine interventioned to Ald-Ruhn's legion fort, was mine.

There was alot of muttering my sister was very amused by.

[veti]

Spoiler: The sin (virtue?) of pride

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...snippety...

Heh. Even on my first attempt, I don't think I got lost that badly looking for that shrine. Have you listened to all the directions?

The mines inside the Ghostfence are weird.

[Illven]

Heh. Even on my first attempt, I don't think I got lost that badly looking for that shrine. Have you listened to all the directions?

The mines inside the Ghostfence are weird.

From what I remember, when I saw that the shrine wasn't literally right outside Ghostgate I went back into Ghostgate, and got directions. I'm 90% sure the NPC specifically told me a little bit west.

God, Mary got so lost.... It brings back memories.....

[Kareeah_Indaga]

It also seems reasonably clear from future events that Vivec's power is what keeps the moon in place, and so if Vivec's power fails for long enough the moon will resume its fall. What isn't clear is whether the failure of Vivec's power would cause a sudden descent and resultant devastating impact or a slower descent with less damaging results.

The Red Year seems to suggest it was the former. Though they did seem to have some warning it was about to go, as they were able to get a stopgap measure in place. Pity that failed too.

[Aeson]

The Red Year seems to suggest it was the former. Though they did seem to have some warning it was about to go, as they were able to get a stopgap measure in place. Pity that failed too.

Say I have a helium-filled balloon holding up a rock, and that the balloon has a slow leak in it but is connected to a tank of helium which keeps the balloon fully inflated. The tank runs out, so I strap a number of jet engines to the rock to allow it to maintain its current altitude even after the balloon is fully deflated. At some point in time after the balloon becomes fully deflated, the jet engines fail (they blow up or suffer some other sudden, critical failure which more or less completely removes the force keeping the rock at altitude), and the rock falls to the ground and impacts at a certain speed. Would this rock have hit the ground at the same speed if I'd allowed it to descend as the balloon deflated, or have I made things worse by attempting to keep the rock at the initial altitude with the jet engines?

The UESP doesn't give me enough information to conclude that the above scenario is analogous to the failure of the magic holding the Ministry of Truth aloft, but it also doesn't give me enough information to conclude that it isn't. If it is analogous to the above scenario, implementing a solution to keep the Ministry aloft is quite possibly more dangerous than allowing the Ministry to fall as Vivec's spell fails. Possibly the book covering that sequence of events goes into greater detail on what exactly would happen as Vivec's magic failed, but looking only at the information available on the UESP, I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that the failure of Vivec's spell would necessarily be as devastating as the failure of the stopgap implemented to keep the Ministry aloft.

[veti]

The UESP doesn't give me enough information to conclude that the above scenario is analogous to the failure of the magic holding the Ministry of Truth aloft, but it also doesn't give me enough information to conclude that it isn't. If it is analogous to the above scenario, implementing a solution to keep the Ministry aloft is quite possibly more dangerous than allowing the Ministry to fall as Vivec's spell fails.

The Ministry isn't that big. If it came down nice and gently, it'd crush a corner of the temple quarter - but the palace, the city, and even the temple itself would still be standing and mostly usable.

Obviously we can't be sure about a counterfactual - and come to think of it, even the in-world characters who made the decisions may not have known one way or the other - but given the terrible price that the Dunmer were (mostly) willing to pay to avert it, I'm betting that they thought it would come down very hard - possibly, not merely dropping from its present height, but resuming the rate of plummet from the moment before Vivec stopped it. If they thought otherwise, it makes no sense to sacrifice their own people to prevent it.

[Aeson]

The Ministry isn't that big. If it came down nice and gently, it'd crush a corner of the temple quarter - but the palace, the city, and even the temple itself would still be standing and mostly usable.

Obviously we can't be sure about a counterfactual - and come to think of it, even the in-world characters who made the decisions may not have known one way or the other - but given the terrible price that the Dunmer were (mostly) willing to pay to avert it, I'm betting that they thought it would come down very hard - possibly, not merely dropping from its present height, but resuming the rate of plummet from the moment before Vivec stopped it. If they thought otherwise, it makes no sense to sacrifice their own people to prevent it.

That the Ministry of Truth remains aloft is almost certainly the most visible, and also perhaps the greatest, proof of the power and divinity of the Tribunal, or at the very least of Vivec, especially after the deactivation of the Ghostfence and the deaths or disappearances of the Tribunes. There are a lot of people heavily invested in traditional Temple doctrine being 'right' - the Ordinators have been persecuting those do not believe in the divinity of the Tribunes, and while the game itself leaves the details of this somewhat vague, I would regard it as rather likely that they, or at least the higher-ups in their organization, would greatly fear the backlash should one of the last remaining proofs of the Tribunal's divinity literally and metaphorically falls out of the sky and brings them down with it; there are likely also traditionalists in the Temple who stand to lose a lot should the traditional doctrine be discarded in favor of the doctrine held by the Dissident Priests. It is also likely that there are religious fanatics who will do almost anything to maintain the things that prove their beliefs 'right,' even when the acts they take to maintain those proofs invalidate the proof; the Dunmer were certainly willing to sacrifice a lot, at least in theory, for the Ghostfence, which was powered in large part by the spirits of their ancestors whose graves were moved to the fence for that purpose, and while this has less of a direct cost than sacrificing living people for a similar cause, it's also something in the same vein - especially if you start by taking the dregs of society, rather than asking for people to make sacrifices that they'd actually miss.

I rather think you're selling the "maintain my own power and position in society" and "religious fanaticism" motivations short when you say that the only possible justification for the Dunmer to pay the price they did to keep the Ministry flying was the fear that it'd hit the ground with devastating force.

[Triaxx]

Of course we're assuming it's not storing all the potential energy of the initial fall.

[LibraryOgre]

Of course we're assuming it's not storing all the potential energy of the initial fall.

Which was my thought. What if he didn't stop it so much as pause it... so once the rock started again, it started at the same velocity as when he paused.

[veti]

Of course we're assuming it's not storing all the potential energy of the initial fall.

Quite. And from the events of the Red Year, it seems possible that that's precisely what it was doing.

Spoiler: Morrowind main quest

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Although another possible interpretation, and one I think Bethesda might go with because it's even more belittling of the Nerevarine, which seems to be their writers' major objective - is that Red Mountain had been storing up its eruption energy for a long time, and it was Dagoth Ur's power that was keeping it from blowing earlier, so at that point just a small tremor - the impact of the Ministry falling naturally - was enough to set it off.

Which I think is an interesting thought, when you reflect on what it suggests about Azura. In Morrowind, I thought she was clearly a Good Guy. Although there are hints that she's partly motivated by revenge on the Tribunal (and Dagoth Ur) for betraying her, she does seem to have the welfare of the people at heart, and Oblivion does nothing to contradict that. But in Skyrim, Nelacar vehemently insists that she's evil, and it's possible he has a point.

Maybe she's the one who sent the Moon crashing down in the first place. It is one of her symbols, after all.

[Yuki Akuma]

It's not really fair to call any of the Daedric Princes evil. On the same note, though, it's not really fair to call any of them good.

They're all pretty amoral in general. Some are just amoral in ways that are actually nice for mortals. They only care about their Spheres. I think the only Deadric Princes who have anything approaching an actual mortal conscience are Sheogorath (who, in Skyrim where he's at his most 'good', was probably originally mortal) and Clavicus Vile (whose conscience is incarnated as a separate individual, so his 'having a conscience' probably has some sort of mythic connotation to his Spheres).

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Which was my thought. What if he didn't stop it so much as pause it... so once the rock started again, it started at the same velocity as when he paused.

^This is my thought as well, because it's not much of a threat on Vivec's part if its capability for destruction consists of...smushing a corner of his city, which happens to belong to his priesthood that no one would care about in that scenario anyway. The fact that it would obliterate everyone if they stopped believing in him was kind of the point.

The citizenry of Vivec screamed as they saw a shooting star come down out of the sky hole like a toll-road of hell. But Vivec merely raised his hand and froze Lie Rock just above the city and then he pierced the monster with Muatra.
(The practice of piercing the Second Aperture is now forbidden.)
When Nerevar returned, he saw the frozen comet above his lord's city. He asked whether or not Vivec wanted it removed.
'I would have done so myself if I wanted, silly Hortator. I shall keep it there with its last intention intact, so that if the love of the people of this city for me ever disappear, so shall the power that holds back their destruction.'
Nerevar said, 'Love is under your will only.'
Vivec smiled and told the Hortator that he had become a Minister of Truth.

[Illven]

See Mary needs to invoke Piccolo to save the day after the main quest.

"MOOONNNNN!!!!"

[Triaxx]

I don't quite think Azura is evil, as much as she is prone to challenging those mortals who stand before her. Those who rise to the challenge are rewarded. Those who don't probably don't survive long enough to regret it.

[Illven]

Spoiler: Assassin 2 Electric dagger boogaloo.

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So. Guess who was not in the mood to be assassinated this morning! This girl. Guess who had another attempt to end their life made against them. This girl! After brutality smashing in his skull, and then taking my rage out on his dead body. I took his valuable armor before disposing of the body, Percius is willing to flirt with me, but not help me fight an assassin apparently.

…........ Another ****ing Assassin...... Screaming in inarticulate rage as I battled this second assassin, he panicked seeing the sheer fury that even my mask couldn't conceal...... But it didn't save him, as my mace cracked into his chest, freezing it solid, I looted the assassins set of armor, swiftly realizing this would fund my retirement if I ever went home.

I had so much to sell I had to leave the guild halls, after they ran out of money to buy my stuff with. Wandering Ald-ruhn I visit shop after shop. Giving one after the other a piece of armor or two. Divesting myself of all that I wanted sold. I remembered the imperial cult shrine in the mages guild, and went there.

Talking to the imperial priest there named Vala, she told me that if I wanted to join the Nine divines I could sign up in Ebonheart a Imperial city in the far south. Thanking her for the info and educating me about diseases, I took the teleport circle to Vivec, where I would find a boat to Ebonheart.

Getting wolf whistled as I made my way through the fort to the cult, this time I merely rolled my eyes, my blood no longer boiling from my trial at Ghostgate. Speaking with another Imperial woman there named Lalatia she welcomed me into the guild with open arms.

Getting my first task from a man named Synnolian he gave me a potion that would fortify strength and told me to gather marshmerrow from a farmer just south of Pelagiad. So, with that task I proceeded to go back to the boat systems at the edge of Ebonheart and pay for passage to Vivec, and then a silt strider to Seyda Neen.

Where I proceeded to use my amulet to bring me to the fort outside Pelagid. What could I say this thing is neat. When I first saw the town it was another storm. This time one of rain, did this amulet have a side effect of controlling the weather. Heading south, I saw a cave, and being the explorer I am entered Mannammu.

To which I nearly died in my first battle in here, wonderful start huh. Wincing to my wounds, I did not do the smart thing, and leave. Instead I proceeded forward. Seeing another lady this one was really confident, swaggering as she approached me, she casually strolled out of the way of my bolts. But this foe I was able to handle.

Not the greatsword wielding Nord that was next..... That was the fourth time I died.

The farm was only a little bit south from where I was. Talking to the farmer I gave him the potion Synnolian gave me. Thanking me for the gift, he himself gave me a book titled the Cake and the diamond, a book that explained alchemy a little, he also told me to take as much marshmerrow as I needed. Bidding him good bye, I wandered back towards Ebonheart, before realizing how late it was, and deciding to rest.

Spoiler: OOC notes

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Having the difficulty in the mid 90's without realizing it leads to easy deaths.

[Aeson]

Of course we're assuming it's not storing all the potential energy of the initial fall.

There are three effects¹ available in the game which could be used to explain how Vivec suspended the Ministry over the city - levitation, slowfall, and telekinesis. The implementations of levitation in Morrowind and of telekinesis in Oblivion suggest that an object suspended by either of these effects does not store the energy it carried while falling. In Morrowind, a falling character who interrupts their fall with a levitation effect does not take falling damage when the effect is applied, nor does the end of the effect return their energy state to what it had been when the effect was applied (if you're airborne for the entire duration of a levitation effect, fall to the ground after it wears off, and were falling at the start of the effect, you take an amount of falling damage dependent only upon your altitude at the end of the levitation effect; your energy state at the time the levitation effect was applied is not considered). In Oblivion, a falling object caught and suspended in midair by telekinesis and then dropped appears to behave more or less as would be expected of a real-world object which falls, is caught and brought to a stop, and then dropped would; the kinetic energy from the initial fall does not suddenly reappear when the object is released from the telekinesis effect. I can't recall exactly what happens with slowfall; I know that a character under the effect of any magnitude of slowfall at the time of impact is immune to falling damage, but I don't remember if a slowfall effect which wears off mid-fall has any effect on falling damage. If it doesn't, then slowfall would be an effect that could interrupt a falling object's descent and restore the object's energy state to what it had been before the effect was applied.

If it is desired to restore the Ministry's energy state at the time the fall was interrupted when the effect ends, then telekinesis and levitation effects would appear to be ineligible, as the game mechanics suggest that the kinetic energy carried by an object whose fall is interrupted by a levitation or telekinesis effect is simply lost. Slowfall effects might allow the kinetic energy carried by a falling object to be restored to the object at the end of the effect if the object has not yet reached the ground, but slowfall effects wouldn't actually stop the Ministry's descent (although a sufficiently powerful slowfall effect could perhaps make it seem as though the Ministry's fall had been stopped).

Now, as far as which effect is actually in play, or if there's some other effect not available in the games which was used, we cannot say. For whatever it's worth, the offering made to and the blessing received from the Shrine of Daring are both levitation effects.

¹Feather could perhaps also be used to hold the Ministry aloft, though it would require certain things about the effect which may not be true within the game. Specifically, the effect would need to be able to reduce the apparent weight of the object to the point that buoyant forces could keep the Ministry aloft, but as implemented Feather cannot emulate a levitation or water walking effect no matter how far beyond the character's total carried weight the effect magnitude is. Feather (and, for that matter, Burden) effects also do not impact the effectiveness of weapons as far as I know, despite the fact that the mass of a weapon can strongly impact its effectiveness.

[veti]

There are three effects¹ available in the game which could be used to explain how Vivec suspended the Ministry over the city - levitation, slowfall, and telekinesis.

Slowfall is like a 'glide' effect - you can move as if flying, but without any control over your own vertical movement, i.e. you can't direct yourself to fly up or down. You'll just lose altitude continually, at a rate that depends on the magnitude of the effect.

When it wears off, you drop as if naturally from wherever you happen to be at that moment.

It seems likely that Vivec has access to more powerful effects than these, specifically time-distortion effects. That's the only way I can think of that would cause it to resume its descent with all of its previous energy. I can't think of any spells in Morrowind that distort time (except "Quicksave", of course), but Skyrim has at least one Shout that does it, so it is definitely possible.

[Yuki Akuma]

Vivec possesses the power of CHIM, which, among other things, allows one to exist partially outside the normal flow of time. So yeah, he probably has time magic.