Erfworld 65, Page 59

[Lamech]

I think bats have echo location or something so yeah its empty. Unless Parson or Stanley had some foolamancy cast. It looks like Amson made a mistake, but he'll most likely figure out he's no longer matching wits with Stanley

[magicwalker]

Hahah, gotcha lookin'! Waste of a turn. Classic.

[Vethyx]

Now, just cant wait to see Parson drop the hammer, and dispense some indiscriminant justice ;)

[Lunix Vandal]

A quick note: I don't think Ansom is going to try attacking any of the two adjacent hexes with what remains of his move. The number of dwagons isn't the only factor to consider, the type also seems to have an impact. Going by Ansom's comment on page 58, it seems that yellow, pink, and purple dwagons are the weaker types. So the 4 in the adjacent hex we've seen may be stronger, and while they might not be enough to survive Ansom, attacking them would probable lead to enough damage that he would be a sitting duck next turn. (Particularily if the two remaining uncroacked warlords are waiting, 1 in each adjacent hex.)

Well, if I'm reading the map here correctly, the hexes next to the weak/croaked-by-Ansom hex have a brown, 2 blues, and a yellow (to the left), and one each of yellow, green, brown, and blue (to the right). That probably translates to one relatively weak and 3 medium-strong Dwagons in each. (Weak being relative to other Dwagons, of course, and NOT to, say, a Gobwin or a Spidew.) Since Ansom was expecting to fight 19 critically wounded Dwagons, 4 full-health Dwagons is probably not something he will want to try to deal with this turn, especially given that the 19 he thought were waiting inside the "fort" should be able to take down "5 or 6 whole stacks", and it took a "max stack" (With Tarfu and Ansom's Leadership bonuses) to bring down just 3 members of the "weaker types" of Dwagon. So, I think Ansom is going to hold his position and put in an emergency call to Jillian/Charlie's Archons to hi-tail it over there and try and give him some air support to hold of the *boop*-kicking that will commence on Stanley's next turn.

However, I doubt the Uncroaked warlords are hiding in those two adjacent hexes, for two reasons. First, Parson is undoubtedly smart enough to realize he should leave some of his uncroaked incompetent Warlords leadership-bonuses-in-cans at home in case something horribly wrong happens to the others. Second, if they were in those hexes, Vinnie's bats should have picked up on them, which I would think would be a dead give-away that the "weak" hex is/was a trap.

[explanetpluto]

My guess it that the center hex is not empty, but rather Parson's found a way to trick the bats.

[Destro_Yersul]

Anyone else think it's funny that the gumps are a forest unit?
They're Forest Gumps :D

[SmartAlec]

Seaige can be rebuilt in a relatively short time

Ah, but can it? This is a strategy game world, more or less; from what we've been told so far, new units can only be created in a capital city. So no building new siege towers on the way, similar to how Orcs and Humans can't just build new catapults and ballistae in the middle of a battlefield in Warcraft. The Coalition's capital cities are probably all very far away and siege units are slow, so even if the Coalition do build more, it'll take a long, long, long time for them to reach the column.

EDIT: I'm amused that Ansom yells 'For the King!' and funny that I should mention Warcraft, because "For the Kiiiing!" is one of the battlecries of the Knight units in Warcraft II.

[Scientivore]

If I had to put I label on Ansom's position in the hierarchy it would be "Prince".

Good choice!

Hi all, kind of new to these forums. Alright, brand new.

A quick note: I don't think Ansom is going to try attacking any of the two adjacent hexes with what remains of his move. The number of dwagons isn't the only factor to consider, the type also seems to have an impact. Going by Ansom's comment on page 58, it seems that yellow, pink, and purple dwagons are the weaker types. So the 4 in the adjacent hex we've seen may be stronger, and while they might not be enough to survive Ansom, attacking them would probable lead to enough damage that he would be a sitting duck next turn.

Welcome and a good point! The three that got croaked were "strong examples" of their types (high level?) but the other hexes would all have larger stack bonuses.

(Particularily if the two remaining uncroacked warlords are waiting, 1 in each adjacent hex.)

There is one piece of strong evidence that it's not possible to hide from Vinny's doombats merely by not attacking: no one on the Alliance Council expressed any concern about it.

Did I miss it in a previous page or am I the first to pick up on the forest gumps?

Someone actually saw it coming as soon as Gumps were mentioned as forest-capable units in Klog #6 (sorry I forgot who).

[firepup]

three down, A lot more to go.

[Ganurath]

There is one piece of very strong evidence that it's not possible to hide from Vinny's doombats merely by not attacking: no one on the Alliance Council expressed any concern about it.

Yes, because we all know that Erfworlders have a wonderful track record for taking into consideration Parson's full ammount of options.

[Jothki]

There is one piece of strong evidence that it's not possible to hide from Vinny's doombats merely by not attacking: no one on the Alliance Council expressed any concern about it.

Yeah, they're a scout unit, they should be able to effectively scout.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

It was either empty or full of the other dwagons...and after the auther said that the dwagons shown nestling in the comic and not on the map was a blooper and not intentional, it lent creedance to the center being empty more than anything else...of course...an invisibility spell might be interesting. If the combined might of their thinkamancers have enough power to shroud a hex in an elaborate illusion, then they could really screw with them...then again...that would have risked them rushing in without scouting first...

so...speculation on the dwagon's next targets? Ansom? Column? or their home bases? I could definately see the next warlord battlecry being 'all your base are belong to us'

[cmdrclueless]

EDIT: I'm amused that Ansom yells 'For the King!' and funny that I should mention Warcraft, because "For the Kiiiing!" is one of the battlecries of the Knight units in Warcraft II.

Actually, I think "For the King!" refers to Elvis. If you notice images of Elvis seem to periodically appear in the comic. The initial panel when the the mountains are being placed (page 1). There is a large painting in panel 3 of page 35 and panel 11 of page 37. The large pictures in the dome (panel 4, page 45) when parson tries to move his fliers at night. Heck, Even the Evil Knievel outfit looks kind of like a Elvis outfit without a helmet.

Perhaps in Erf world The King, Elvis, is similar to Christ the King and something of a deity? So it might not be a reference to any normal king.

Anymore thought beyond this would require me to have a clue though....

[SmartAlec]

Although you're right, and Elvis is kind of like a creator-deity in Erfworld (the Titans look like very big Elvises, check the first comic), I had a feeling Ansom's battlecry referred to King Slately of Jetstone, the leader of Ansom's 'faction'. Similar to Webinar's earlier "My life for Jetstone!".

[cmdrclueless]

Although you're right, and Elvis is kind of like a creator-deity in Erfworld (the Titans look like very big Elvises, check the first comic), I had a feeling Ansom's battlecry referred to King Slately of Jetstone, the leader of Ansom's 'faction'. Similar to Webinar's earlier "My life for Jetstone!".

I could be wrong, but I think it's look like very big Elvii

Your probably right, but if you think of it in a crusader aspect, taking out Stanley for the greater good then it's a possibility.

Regardless, I'll be glad when the next page is available.

[JazzManJim]

Somewhere out there is a honking big stack of dwagons and three warlords.

And Parson has something in mind for them about which he's only barely hinted...

[Aerysil]

The tree man talks like Butthead. Greeeat. :)

[ChowGuy]

http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/cgi-...?date=20070625

Agreed, it's unlikely that (defending) flying units can be withheld or hidden from scouts. However it may be possible for ground units to hide under heavy tree cover. Recall way back on page 10 the twoll's comment "I hate ending turn in the open field, y'know? I feel like one tasty target." I suspect what he meant was that, being in the open, he was visible to any possible flyers, whereas if he were in tress he might not be. If that's the case Parson may well have deployed two of his five warlords, along with whatever other ground units he could dwagon-lift in, to reinforce the two 4-dwagon hexes to other side. That could be enough to be the margin of victory should Ansom decide to turn his remaining attack forcd in that direction. Probably not the main trap, but a backup plan.

Next move Parson has some choices, he could launch full scale at Ansom or attack the siege. Which one he attacks is up to Ansom.

H's got at least one more option, possibly the best one of all since it's the one no army should ever leave without adequate cover against a surical air-strike. He can hit Ansom's command center and the dozen or more warlords from the varius factions that were gathered around the plot table. Even if Ansom can get back there himself the archery units he brought with him can't, so he now has to decide where he's going to send what little air cover he has, and whether to pull the remianing archery units off the seige rto cover them. That's if he realizes they're a primary target to begin with, which I believe is precisely Parson's "huge" idea.

If all he hoped to get were the seige units on the next pass, he had that already without setting up the diversion, and given the overall odds he's facing the handful of forestry units that were/can be croaked would have been worth the sacrifice of three dwagons. He's after something much bigger.

The catch is that Parson may have a problem if he's been so caught up in tactical planning that he overlooked the issue of how to get Stanley to go along with whatever plan he comes up with.

Aye, there's the rub. The best laid plans of Hamsters and Men....

[Aquillion]

Anyhow, I don't understand why people think Parson can walk over Ansom. There's too damn much firepower in that hex for safety. All the archers get their hitsies, remember?

Don't forget: Ansom's plan was to crush the 19 dwagons in the center hex easily (since they each presumably only have a few hits left.) He knew that, after that comparatively easy fight, his forces would be able to beat the remaining dwagons (assuming he isn't an idiot, anyway).

But he failed to croak the 19 dwagons, and they heal at the start of Stanley's next turn. That means that Parson can attack him with them, fully healed, and all the dwagons in the circle. That's roughly twice the force Ansom counted on, and he thought it would be a touchy thing even before. So yes, attacking Ansom is a possibility.

I don't think it was Parson's plan (he couldn't count on Ansom coming with the strike group, unless he knows about the Arkenpliers), and I don't know if that's what he's actually going to do... but the fact that those 19 dwagons heal at the start of Stanley's turn makes a massed assault a possibility.

[Cpt. Sqweky]

I could be wrong, but I think it's look like very big Elvii

I'm sorry, but... in short... You're wrong. the "i" plural ending is only applicable to words that end in "us" So "Elvis" (Elvises) is not applicible, but "Radius" (radii) is. Cactus (cacti) is applicable, but "blunderbuss" (blunderbusses) is not.

[Mystyco]

a full 56 53 stack of dwagon s may solve this once and for all i think

even if, i think it's going for the siege, again (and no, it's not like turning out the siege they're gonna move faster...they have no other method toi enter than the tunnels, and parson already have a plan for that)

[ShiningTed]

Agreed, it's unlikely that (defending) flying units can be withheld or hidden from scouts. However it may be possible for ground units to hide under heavy tree cover.

A lot of people seem to think the hex isn't really empty.

I have to disagree with this, for the oft-touted reason that you can't have two opposing units in one hex. If the bat ends it turn in that hex (theoretically of course, it probably won't) then you have a bat and a bunch of the Tool's units all living in the one hex.

It don't work like that - if you enter an occupied hex, then battle ensues. Its that simple, unless there is something drastically different about how Erfworld as a game plays out.

I think Ansom's battle cry was about his tribal leader, King Whats-his-face, but I also think it was a Warcraft II shout-out. Great stuff.

O, and great comic btw - though the Dragons went down pretty easy in the end

[Fuzzypaws]

H's got at least one more option, possibly the best one of all since it's the one no army should ever leave without adequate cover against a surical air-strike. He can hit Ansom's command center and the dozen or more warlords from the varius factions that were gathered around the plot table. Even if Ansom can get back there himself the archery units he brought with him can't, so he now has to decide where he's going to send what little air cover he has, and whether to pull the remianing archery units off the seige rto cover them. That's if he realizes they're a primary target to begin with, which I believe is precisely Parson's "huge" idea.

I think you might have something here. I'm assuming Ansom didn't bring all his coalition warlords along with him to the forest; it would be stupid as hell, and with Vinnie at his side Ansom doesn't do stupid. It's likely that Ansom will not think to protect his warlords, and that even if he calls for help from Jillian and the Archons, it will be to protect his megastack out in the woods. Leaving the field command as a tasty, tempting target...

Plus, since the dragons have tons of move, and they're presumably starting nearby this time instead of setting out from GK... they can probably get the field command AND all the siege in a single turn!

[Renx]

Hahah, gotcha lookin'! Waste of a turn. Classic.

Three Dwagons down... I can't imagine the Tool to be happy about that. He 'hated to lose a dwagon' in the capture of Jillian, and now three down. I'm really looking forward to the view switch back to the Tool's side. *grin*

[dfpiii]

With regard to what Ansom does next. Given the casualties he's taken already I doubt that he'd want to pursure further attacks against the dwagons, but might decide his best course of action is to retreat the column and possibly reinforce a seige unit, while calling in his air support. He might save a few of the seige units - which is better than complete wipe out - and he has to recognise that he is vulnerable now and that Stanley would want to take the opportunity to kill him.

I think Parson will know about the pliers. I think the Tool, in a moment of maniacal exposition, explained that Ansom was bringing them to him. He explained that Ansom couldn't gain full benefit from them because they could not be attuned to Ansom. If Parson does know about them, it's likely he'll have kept all his warlords far away from where he laid his empty hex trap.

But I agree with several other posters in that we're probably not far away from the realisation that Stanley isn't doing the thinking for team GK anymore.

[Heavenfall]

Ansom will probably act in one out of two ways:

1) Realise that he has no idea where many of the dwagons are - and move back closer to the rest of his army (or convoy), in order to respond quicker when the dragons appear.

2) See 5 hexes of all-profit-combat and waste "most" of his movement points taking out a significant part of the dragon's strength.

It is also possible that 1) is already too late, since Ansom has committed a lot of units for the "punchthrough".

However, what bothers me is this: If you are fighting a "few vs many" type of scenario, you always have to weigh "profit vs loss" - ie if you set up a third of your dragons as beit, and then leave them open for attack, spread out in a forest, close to enemy units that are proffessional forest fighters, then what you gain from that has to be absolutely fenomenal.

"Without question", we are looking at something like - capturing Ansom - taking out _all_ the remaining siege units - destroying all of the enemy warlords - counter-attacking and destroying all forest fighting units.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

destroying forest capable units won't do much good once other units are out of the forrest, while there are archers, they have other archers so it is not critical.

Taking out siege seems to be priority, as without seige equipment, their attack against the main fortifications will be drastically reduced...time favors GK in this case in the 'short term' especially if they can force Ansom to throw attackers at the walls without the benefit of siege equipment.

Taking out the warlords of the Allies would be a very good strategy, though if they are in hexes that are stacked full, their dragons could wind up taking heavy casualties as they warlords direct all attacks on single dwagons at a time. Killing Ansom, Vinnie, and the wood elf leader would be a harsh blow to the allies, but if the alliance is strong, they can survive the loss of a few warlords, no matter what position they hold. Headhunting is a bonus, but ensuring the enemy cannot effectively carry out their plans would mean more time to 'headhunt' or otherwise handicap the enemy later on.

[Eldhrin]

I don't know what's going on anymore. I don't even know which side most of the people we're seeing fighting are on! It's just a rather messy confusion. These last few pages are not well-suited to an episodic format. Much better when it's all done and they can be glanced through quickly.

[Psychonaut]

Heh... For some reason, my favorite part about this strip was the fact that Vinny's bat has the same fang exposed as Vinny normally does when his mouth is closed. Nice little touch that I found quite cute.

I now notice that this was visible way back in strip 22, though oddly enough in that picture his (and his bat's) left rather than right fang is exposed. IIRC, it's been consistently his right more recently.

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion of strategy.

[lavidor10]

I guess this strip shows us exactly what difference huge stack and warlord bonuses can make. Although I guess the Alliance did take damage and the strip just showed the highlights.

Also I love "KA-BRAIN", and "Titans' testes!"

edit: Oh, and the tennis thing