Erfworld 65, Page 59

[SteveMB]

And I don't see where the table would need a Foolamancer to operate.

My inference is that the functions are:

Lookamancer -- Sees what's happening on the battlefield
Thinkamancer -- Relays information between Lookamancer and Foolamancer; relays reports and orders between situation room and field warlords
Foolamancer -- Generates images seen on the table tactical display

[danneloftyr]

Can Wanda uncroak a dead dragon?

[DCR]

My inference is that the functions are:

Lookamancer -- Sees what's happening on the battlefield
Thinkamancer -- Relays information between Lookamancer and Foolamancer; relays reports and orders between situation room and field warlords
Foolamancer -- Generates images seen on the table tactical display

Excellent surmise. I shall concur and say fw00t! for the SteveMB!

fw00t!

Ansom has: 25 to 1 troop advantage and probably a Stagemancer (Hat Magic). Healomancers or two entire classes? races? divisions? of healers.
Tool has: Look, Think, Fool -mancers (guessing they're rather occupied with table and eyebooks); Croak (Wanda); Dirt (Sizemore). And Parson.

...Tuesday is a looooong way away.

Edit. As usual.

Can Wanda uncroak a dead dragon?

Can Wanda's magic reach that far? I think she had to go get Manpower to uncroak him. Good thought, tho'.

[factotum]

I think the reason for Parson's deception is simple--remove a whole bunch of warlords and archers from the main column so they can't defend the siege next turn. He could possibly hit Ansom's splinter group as well, but he really doesn't need to--he's pretty much won this round anyway, so we next need to see what happens when Ansom reaches Gobwin Knob.

[DGM]

He could possibly hit Ansom's splinter group as well, but he really doesn't need to--he's pretty much won this round anyway, so we next need to see what happens when Ansom reaches Gobwin Knob.

But why waste the oppourtunity, if he has power to spare?

Prediction #3: Now that Parson has his new Mathemancy toy he'll eliminate exactly enough seige (which may or may not be all of it) to render the seige strategy useless, maximizing his ability to hit other targets of oppourtunity without losing any more dwagons (they'll all be horribly injured, but not dead). As for the "other targets of oppourtunity," that could be almost anything depending on what Ansom does next.

[veive]

I don't know what's going on anymore. I don't even know which side most of the people we're seeing fighting are on! It's just a rather messy confusion. These last few pages are not well-suited to an episodic format. Much better when it's all done and they can be glanced through quickly.

I disagree, I think he's doing a fantastic job with this comic and I look forward to seeing more.
If you re-read the last 5 or 6 strips it should all make sense.

[Scientivore]

Second one first... Are 'healers' mancers? My view (and I don't think canon says one way or the other yet) is no. I see a Healomancer healing entire stacks or hexes, and unit types with healing abilities (Lofty, Altruist elves) doing the one unit thing (like the panel where one was healing the rammstein daschund).

We don't know for sure yet. You could be right. Either way, they might not actually all be healers. For example, not all Woodsy Elves were archers; we saw two stacks wearing different colors, one with bows followed by one without bows. Erfworlders seem to generalize and stereotype as much as any Earthling (irony intended).

And as for the Stanly Foolamancer... where's that at?

I think that it's canon because the Eyebooks run on all three Eyemancies and they were made by Stanley's Eyemancers. On the other hand, Wanda can cast powerful spells outside of her specialty; on the third hand, that seems to be unusual.

Incidentally, I don't know if anyone pointed this out before and I've forgotten...on Page 53 there, Wanda only says that Ansom has no Lookamancers (in response to Parson's assumption that Ansom had the same communication and surveillance tech). It's possible that she was so specific because she learned it from Jillian and that's what Jillian knows. I would certainly seem silly to me for them to consider paying Charlie's "nominal" Thinkagram fees if they have their own Thinkamancer(s). However, that still leaves open the possibility that Ansom has one or more Foolamancers.

[Overdark]

The warlords can choose to have units not attack. Are we certain the center hex is actually empty?

Yes.

Otherwise 1 Warlord could hide an entire army. As Stanley would say, that would be Stupid.

[Overdark]

Is it the center hex is empty ...or is it all the hexes are now empty and the dwagons moved on to munch on the main line again while every elf/gump unit in Ansom's army used their last possible movement point for the day to move here?

I still say the dwagons should have just flown up high enough out of reach of the stupid gumps/elves to save themselves.

Please WAKE UP!

Units cant move when it's not their turn. Keep repeating it untill it finaly sinks into your head. Units can't move when its not their turn. There has even been an entire comic devoted to the subject.

Units Auto-Attack when a non-allied unit enters their Hex. There has ALSO been an entire Comic devoted to that subject.

[SteveMB]

Units can't move when its not their turn. There has even been an entire comic devoted to the subject.

More specifically, flying units can be airborne when it's not their turn (as Jillian was when captured after ending turn in the trees, and when she intended to leave when the turn started, but decided that she'd already heard enough from Webinar and the Archons), but they can't fly out of reach of units that are eligible to attack them according to the rules of Erfworld combat. (Presumably, the "in-universe" reason why certain units are not eligible to attack flyers is that the flyers can fly out of their reach. Yes, the results are sometimes counterintuitive by real-world Earth rules, but Erfworld works according to its own rules.)

[Overdark]

The cat is outta the bag now, Ansom and company definitely know that there is a Competent Warlord at the table.

If Ansom Attacks the ring of Dragons he risks banging himself up before Parson's Turn and giving the remaining dragons an open path to himself. If Ansom pulls back he can "Fort Up" like he assumed the Dragons were doing.

Julian is the only wild card.

Parson will have a few options available to him on Stanley's Turn.

1 Attack Ansom and try to wrest the pliers from him. Assuming you can specificly target Ansom and retreat when you've got them.

2 Attack the Siege and finish them off.

3 Attack the bats and Orlies to have complete intelligence domination of the Battlefield. Assuming more can't be manufactured by the Invaders.

4 Ansom told the Marbits to pull off and attack underground "whether we've joined you or not. They need to join their counterparts for the feint" The column is going to loose alot of potential defenders.

Either way Parson has his new Mathmancy device to help him determine the lowest cost maximum effect attack.

P.S.
Option 5 Fly Sizemore out to the spots along the road where the Column used to be. Specificly their field latrines. Attack them from behind with the products of their own behinds. Same thing can be done with Wanda to animate the Dead attackers.

[Airshark]

Although you're right, and Elvis is kind of like a creator-deity in Erfworld (the Titans look like very big Elvises, check the first comic), I had a feeling Ansom's battlecry referred to King Slately of Jetstone, the leader of Ansom's 'faction'. Similar to Webinar's earlier "My life for Jetstone!".

You guys do realize that King Slately is a contraction of "Slate" (Fred Flintstone's boss) and "Spacely" (George Jetson's boss). "Jetstone" is a composition of "Jetson" and "Flintstone".

[Arkenputtyknife]

Tangent: I'm kinda surprised that 'testes' wasn't booped out.

The only person who has ever had any word booped out at any time is Parson. The natives probably don't even know any boop-able words — how would they learn them?

You guys do realize that King Slately is a contraction of "Slate" (Fred Flintstone's boss) and "Spacely" (George Jetson's boss). "Jetstone" is a composition of "Jetson" and "Flintstone".

Ah. So that's why the redhead in strip 7 looks like Wilma. (Goes back to check forum archive for that strip… boop! Curse you, Roethke!) But where's Betty?

[Ygrane]

If the elves had been speaking volleyball, it would have been bump, set, with spike coming next. I don't know what sport has a sequence that involves set and serve (presumably tennis, from the other posters), but it isn't volleyball.

Assuming that Parson is playing a shell game with his warlords and A dragons, they can't be under the 4 stacks either. If he could take on ansom's stack with just 4 dragons and the wounded, he wouldn't need the party platter.

[Bilgore]

My inference is that the functions are:

Lookamancer -- Sees what's happening on the battlefield
Thinkamancer -- Relays information between Lookamancer and Foolamancer; relays reports and orders between situation room and field warlords
Foolamancer -- Generates images seen on the table tactical display

Hmm, how about a modification to that for tactical use?

Spoiler

Show

Lookamancer -- Sees what's happening on the battlefield
Thinkamancer -- Relays information between Lookamancer and Foolamancer; relays reports and orders between situation room and field warlords
Foolamancer -- Generates illusionary decoys while Parson launches another attack.

Of course, Parson may temporarily suffer from the "fog of war", but being misinformed is often worse than being uninformed.

[Yuki Akuma]

Does anyone else find it odd that Ansom's normal clothes include a breastplate, but his battle outfit includes an open-front shirt?

[meioziz]

I don't know why people think that:

1) Parson is in trouble because he lost 3 dwagons for nothing.
He took out a large number of siege units! That alone is worth 3 dwagons.

2) Ansom is able to kill some/all of the B-dwagons.
Ansom had to whittle down the 3 B-dwagons by sending in squads of archers just so that the Gumps would be fresh for the center-hex attack. This implies that, A) in order to take out 19 severely-injured Dwagons, the Gumps need to be fresh, and B) if he, Vinnie, and Tarfu attacked the 3 B-dwagons with the Gumps, the Gumps would be notably damaged. Now I doubt they can take 4-dwagons on either side without taking some serious damage.


Regarding the analysis, there are three viewpoints I'm considering:

Parson:
Now that a significant amount of archers have been committed to this center-hex attack, the remaining Siege units within Ansom's column are now more vulnerable. Parson is a strategist. I believe he'd rather destroy the siege without significant (if any) loss, and then retreat for the next operation. Why attempt to hit Ansom and hurt the defense of the city? (leaving lots of siege and significantly less dwagons)

Stanley:
He sees that Ansom is left out in the field, and the Arkenpliers sure are really attractive to him now. I think Stanley will ask Parson or directly order the A-dwagons with Warlords to attack Ansom, assuming an easy win. See my point 2 above for explanation that Ansom's strike force isn't as strong as some people here want to think.

Ansom:
What to do now? Call in the fliers to protect the forest strike force? Possible. High-tail back to the column, leaving the forest troops to fend for themselves? Unlikely - I think Ansom's got too much pride/leadership to do that. Call the fliers to protect the column's siege? Also possible.

Of course, Ansom's decision will have a huge impact on what Parson/Stanley will want to do. The best scenario is the fliers coming to protect Ansom, so that leaves Stanley no choice but to clear the siege units - good long-term move.

If Ansom has the fliers go protect the siege, then Parson may want to retreat, and have an argument with Stanley, who may be underestimating (does he even know?) the Arkenplier's uncroaked-disruption ability. This may prove to be more intense for story-telling. And this is what I believe more likely to happen, but... not too much more, imo.

The next comic will be very interesting to read for it may reveal a choice in the many-forked road.

[Waldgeist]

I don't know why people think that:

1) Parson is in trouble because he lost 3 dwagons for nothing.
He took out a large number of siege units! That alone is worth 3 dwagons.

I think that's not comparable. The dwagons were not lost fighting the siege engines but because "they were left to close to the column".

If the column had killed three dwagons during the attack 50 for 3 might be a good thing BUT

There must be a boop good reason to provoke a counter attack that causes the loss of three dwagons. Otherwise his Toolship will kick Parson's boop booping hard...

[BoneLord]

Ouch! Those Dwagons went down hard! Especially one getting it's head completely ripped off by a barehanded Gump. Those things are stronger than I expected, somehow.

And the Center Hex is empty? I actually was a really big fan of the theory that the "weak hex" had all the uninjured Dwagons and 3 uncroaked warlords secreted in it. I thought that would have beaten Ansom's force for sure. After seeing what just happened, though, I wonder if the casualties really might have been too high to make the plan feasible.

OOH! What if all the other Dwagons are in the strongest hex? What if Ansom is supposed to find out that he was tricked, then try to get back to the collum at top speed while killing as many dwagons as possible. That would mean taking everything through the front hex. When he gets there will he find just 6 dwagons, or will he find an army of dwagons and three warlords hiding beneath the canopy of trees?

[Overdark]

I don't know what's going on anymore. I don't even know which side most of the people we're seeing fighting are on! It's just a rather messy confusion. These last few pages are not well-suited to an episodic format. Much better when it's all done and they can be glanced through quickly.

Take your Ritalin. Repeat as necessary.

[TheTurnipKing]

I think that's not comparable. The dwagons were not lost fighting the siege engines but because "they were left to close to the column".

If the column had killed three dwagons during the attack 50 for 3 might be a good thing BUT

There must be a boop good reason to provoke a counter attack that causes the loss of three dwagons. Otherwise his Toolship will kick Parson's boop booping hard...

Those losses were the enevitable sacrafice nessecary to get Ansom to commit forces away from the column. Now that he has, the Dwagons should be able to complete the decimation of the siege and withdraw to safety. I think even Stanley must realise that three dwagons is a small cost to pay to force Ansom to come through his toughest defences. Or at least he will once hes had it explained to him by Wanda using words with few syllables.

[DGM]

Actually, since Parson will have over twice the dwagons and far less protection to go through next turn, I estimate he'll only need, say, a third of their destructive potential to effectively take the siege out of the equation - and that's only if he has to eliminate every last siege unit to make them a non-option. What can he do with the rest?

1) He could hit warlords to reduce Ansom's ability to use sophisticated tactics, though the alliance seems to have so many of them that this may not be worthwhile.

2) He could try to gank all the fast-moving fliers that he can, to reduce Ansom's scouting capabilities and air superiority.

3) Get the healers. Especially if croakamancers can revive enemy units to fight on your side...


Of course, it's also possible that something will interfere with Parson's plans and take away that extra damage-dealing capacity, preventing Parson from using this oppourtunity to full effect. The three most likely possabilities are:

1) Ansom gets really clever and pulls out all the stops to cover as much siege as possible, maybe even hiring more mercenaries. Parson still gets enough seige to remove them from concern, but doesn't have enough left over to secure a second advantage while he's at it. Ansom has to do this without leaving himself exposed, though.

2) The eyemancer mind-meld breaks down. This forces Parson to use some of his dwagons (and maybe a warlord) for scouting before he starts attacking.

3) The Tool gets ideas of his own about how to use the dwagons. No further explanation needed.

[teratorn]

These dwagons had move left and Parson could've kept them elsewhere. For example in the water hex nearby, or a few hexes from the column. Parson wanted the elves there, and he wanted them so badly he "gave" 3 dwagons.

I wonder if it was not to prevent Ansom from keeping most of remaining siege in one hex and have Jillian and the Archons staying there. An attack on that hex would likely cost Parson more than three dwagons and maybe even some warlords.

I think Parson wants Ansom to call Jillian to protect the forest group, so he can finish every single siege unit in the column with minimal losses. He already diverted some of the archers, taking the air cover would make it easier.

[Welf]

Nice tougths around. But one thing nobody mentioned.
If the three linked Eyemancers are GK most value asset because they support umatched intel, doesn't that implie Vinnie is Ansoms most important asset? Maybe Parson knows about his importance and wants to croak him. Without Vinnies bats this battle would be even more easier.
My personal list of aims would be:
1. Ansom: No warlord, no leadership, less bonus für troops
2. Vinny: Less intel makes the "hit and run in the fog" tactic really mean. Every single scout troop could be croaked easily by an warlord-led stack of dwagons
3. The arkenplier: Makes the tool happy

By the way: Vinny doesn't seem to be happy that Ansom wanted again to sacrifice a bat.

[dfpiii]

Ah. So that's why the redhead in strip 7 looks like Wilma. (Goes back to check forum archive for that strip… boop! Curse you, Roethke!) But where's Betty?

Betty is Wanda. Parson is Fred and - as the relative size is right if not the personality - the Tool is Barney. Also, many dwagons look like Dino.

(It actually freaked me out how easy that fit together in my head - even though I'm certain that's not the actual basis for any of those characters)

[ryos]

By the way: Vinny doesn't seem to be happy that Ansom wanted again to sacrifice a bat.

What do you mean? It was Vinny's idea to spend the bat.

BTW, I love how Vinny's Doombats have a single fang sticking up, just like he does. Very cute.

[BarGamer]

Vinny doesn't seem to be happy that Ansom wanted again to sacrifice a bat.

If I'm reading that accent right, it's VINNY who is volunteering the sacrificial bat. Even if it's not, it makes sense after all. Either sacrifice a bat (which may or may not get easier as time goes by) or sacrifice your entire strike force, including yourself and your boss. Um, no.

Similarly, Vinny would heavily argue against attacking a hex of dragons right now, or they would effectively be switching places with the empty donut hole. They're wounded, the attack force is not, and they don't get healed until their start of turn. Attacking later after enduring the multiple combat reports would be their best bet, unless the seige is completely wiped out, which would make Ansom&Co instant mercs/fugitives-on-the-run. Unless Slately disbands him. >XDDD

"To whom it may concern: Ansom, you fail. We have cut you off. Never show your formerly-royal face around here again, or we'll give up you and your Arkenpliers to Stanley to save ourselves. PS: Your sisters refuse to eat their radishes. >:( Mother is dying of grief."

[ChowGuy]

By the way: Vinny doesn't seem to be happy that Ansom wanted again to sacrifice a bat.

Don't think so. "They're arright..Gonna send a bat in." is Vinny talking, not Ansom. He's the cautious one after all. Now though we've got to be wondering what's going through Ansom's head. From his point of view, he's now been snookered by Stanley twice in a row.

First, he was feinted into sending the air cover off, splitting his force two ways, to defend against an expected ambush that never materialized. Instead, the Dwagons that he had expected to launch that ambush decimated his exposed seige units. Now, he's split his force a third way (forth, if theMarbits have indeed already split off as orderer to bgin their own feint) on what turns out to be another vanishing prize. He's got to be anticipating yet another trap, and if I'm right about the mechanics allowing concealed ground units should now be extremely wary of charging in there. At this point he's where he's liable to err on the side of overcaution rather then overconfidence. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times? Not gonna happen!

Another thing that occurs to me. Can Spidews web a hex? In some games like AoW, stacks entering a webbed hex immediately lose all remaining movement. That would prevent him returning to his column even if he wonthe battle to the side. In others like the Avernum series webs are not only left behind, but serve as ranged attacks. Even three such Spidews, in heavy woods, backed by four full health Dwagons and commanded by a Warlord, could be a stronger defensive force then he's willing to attempt, and of course until he sends yet another leaderless stack in he can't tell if they're there or not.

Edit: Ninja'd on Vinny's accent.

[DGM]

Nice tougths around. But one thing nobody mentioned.
If the three linked Eyemancers are GK most value asset because they support umatched intel, doesn't that implie Vinnie is Ansoms most important asset? Maybe Parson knows about his importance and wants to croak him. Without Vinnies bats this battle would be even more easier.

The alliance has lots of fliers (gwiffons and orlies) with at least twice the move as the bats. That was one of Jillian's excuses to do her ill-fated recon mission. My guess is that the only advantage the bats have is that they don't need to make a round trip or have a top-hat wearing warlord with them to deliver their intel.

If Parson wants to cripple their scouting ability, he's going to have to kill far more than just the bats. And with the rest of Ansom's air force about to return, I'm not sure he can do it before the column reaches the city and it stops mattering.

My personal list of aims would be:
1. Ansom: No warlord, no leadership, less bonus für troops

Only worth it if Ansom leaves himself exposed or if getting him means game over.

By the way: Vinny doesn't seem to be happy that Ansom wanted again to sacrifice a bat.

As others have pointed out, that was Vinny's idea. Vinny only looked furious because he was psyching himself up for a major battle.

[Vreejack]

For the benefit of those with bad eyesight, or who have run out of ritalin and cannot figure out what is going on, I will try to narrate the obvious events.

1-1 Beneath a dense forest canopy, and lit only by the small windows through the branches to the sky above, rows of woodsy elves are shown preparing to launch their arrows. Their commander--probably Tarfu, though the color of his pants seems to change--is issuing orders that sound like some mish-mash from tennis and volleyball. [Note 1]

1-2 Several woodsy elves cheer as the yellow dwagon they shot falls from the canopy with an arrow in its X'ed-out eye.

2-1 A forest gump tears the head off of a pink dwagon.

2-2 Prince Ansom kills a purple dwagon with the arkenpliers while shouting a war cry for King Slately, his overlord.

3-1 Vinny, hovering over the corpse of the purple dwagon, makes a comment of satisfied approval and Tarfu agrees. Ansom is sitting astride his carpet.

3-2 Ansom explains why he didn't do it that way right off. [note 2]

3-3 A view of one of Vinny's bats, shown with the same right fang protruding. Vinny announces that he is going to scout ahead, now.

4-1 A shot of Ansom and Vinny getting psyched up for the great attack.

4-2 A close-up of Vinny in shock. Reading Vinny's reaction, Ansom thinks the defense might be tougher than they expected.

4-3 A shot of the undefended center hex with Vinny's bat flying in a circle over the forest canopy. [Note 3]

Note 1: Maybe Tarfu's clothes change color. And maybe the "serve" "set" and "volley" things are legitimate but they sound screwy to me. I hate tennis

Note 2: Had the dwagons been weaker examples then Ansom would not have committed all of his forces and would not have fallen into Parson's move-wasting trap. The stack wastes 2 move by attacking the three dwagons.

Note 3: If the hex is not empty then Parson is doing something very special to hide them, but it would have to be something highly unusual, such as using some powerful foolamancy spell. Since he has warlords present it would be possible to hold his dwagons in hiding this way without them auto-attacking, but all of this hypothetical stuff would require working with a foolamancer to develop this spell and I doubt he has had the time to do it in the hour or two since Wanda reminded him that Ansom has no lookamancers. The easiest and most straightforward way to hide something is to put it someplace else, especially someplace that is now out of reach of the forest-capable troops, like a few hexes over into the fog-of-war region where Vinny did not bother to scout yet. If Parson has worked it out properly, then all of the forest-capable units--which were assembled from different source hexes and so will have different remaining move--will now be out of reach. Even if vinny can now find the wounded dwagons the only units likely to be able to reach are the three archons, Jillian, and the five fast gwiffons.