RWBY VIII: Well, THAT escalated quickly

[Forum Explorer]

I don't know if it would be great...it would essentially mean the villains lost...again.

It's not like their loss in S2 actually had any impact on Cinder's plans. Like at all.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I don't know if it would be great...it would essentially mean the villains lost...again.

Did they lose? She was just standing there going "just as planned!" It wasn't a win or a loss. It was nothing. Nothing of any consequence.

[Lethologica]

Then "The Great War" started, and it'd be cool if we knew anything about this? Why would there ever be a war in this universe? I can accept the stupid race war against the animal people but why the hell would you have a war in this universe?

Something something war on creativity.

(But seriously, any time you get people and power together there's potential for violent conflict. Just because RWBY hasn't bothered to offer a good explanation yet doesn't mean the potential isn't there.)

((Wait, dammit, I'm talking about potential in a RWBY thread again. Time to skip town.))

[Shackel]

It's not like their loss in S2 actually had any impact on Cinder's plans. Like at all.

Did they lose? She was just standing there going "just as planned!" It wasn't a win or a loss. It was nothing. Nothing of any consequence.

All things considered, it looks like this was definitely part of the grand endgame in S3. If the train hadn't been discovered and destroyed, it's likely a lot more people would've died from the Grimm being unleashed with no one there to stop them.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Unless Cinder was always just a worthless pawn being moved around like the queen she thought she was. There are ways they could of done it that wouldn't of sucked

Its not so much the idea isn't interesting, its the lack of giving the villains competency that I object to. Not that the rest of the happenings would have eased that blow, but when your main heroes tear through mooks like they don't even exist, you have to let your villains accomplish goals to stay a threat.

It's not like their loss in S2 actually had any impact on Cinder's plans. Like at all.

Except...it did. Big time. That train full of White Fang, proto-type paladins, and explosives that was followed by a horde of Grimm? It was supposed to burst into Vale during the Battle of Beacon and would have exponentially increased the casualties if not actually result in the fall of Vale itself. And in exchange(?) they had Roman on the airship...which Neo probably would have attacked regardless so his presence wasn't exactly necessary there.

So yeah, kinda a massive impact there.

Did they lose? She was just standing there going "just as planned!" It wasn't a win or a loss. It was nothing. Nothing of any consequence.

...Y'know, typically with 'just as planned' villains, you have no idea what they're after and they pull off amazing things seemingly out of nowhere because the heroes unwittingly played into their hands...or wittingly did it because the undefined goal means the villain could just go 'ah, just as planned' because the goal can be changed so the heroes still fall for the plan. Difference is, we actually see a lot of the legwork put into accomplishing the attack on Beacon. Not just the legwork, but a fair bit of improv with Roman's failed attack in vol. 2 and gaining the unexpected access to Ironwood's scroll and thus the knowledge Penny was a robot.

Anywho, seeing as how one of the main goals of the attack if not THE main goal was to acquire the entirety of the Fall Maiden's powers, Cinder dying or the powers being lost to the void with no one knowing what happened to them would be a pretty undeniable loss.

I'm just saying a breastplate instead of a cleavage window might of helped. Also shin guards.

New World of Remnant. This time we get to learn about Atlas. Mostly about the original kingdom, Mantle, and how cold can just freeze Grimm. Desperation and Sofolossi (or whatever the **** the continent is called, it literally doesn't matter) being a massive dust reserve meant they pushed really hard and got really far tech wise. Then "The Great War" started, and it'd be cool if we knew anything about this? Why would there ever be a war in this universe? I can accept the stupid race war against the animal people but why the hell would you have a war in this universe?

...and what a false ****ing platitude at the end. The people of Mantle feel upset that Atlas is the capital now. Big ****ing whoop you babies.

I want to know more about the Great War too, because it is an interesting topic. I mean, if its a war on individualism, it could be taken a lot of different ways. Did someone think eliminating art and 'emotion' was a way to combat the Grimm and others obviously disagreed? It couldn't have been a territorial dispute or cultural one, could it have? There's plenty of land for people to try and settle without trying to steal it from the other Kingdoms. Right now its just a big unknown that may never be touched on.

Bit more than the capital bit...its that everything important moved from Mantle to Atlas, including the army. Mantle is no longer as secure and safe it might have once been because the army moved. If the research labs and whatnot moved as well, it also means that Atlas could very well have...well...killed the local economy in Mantle. The 'leaving out in the cold' is literal and figurative, depending on how severe the move was, Atlas could very well have left those who couldn't afford to leave Mantle entirely on their own and not in a position to sustain that kind of position.

[LaZodiac]

Bit more than the capital bit...its that everything important moved from Mantle to Atlas, including the army. Mantle is no longer as secure and safe it might have once been because the army moved. If the research labs and whatnot moved as well, it also means that Atlas could very well have...well...killed the local economy in Mantle. The 'leaving out in the cold' is literal and figurative, depending on how severe the move was, Atlas could very well have left those who couldn't afford to leave Mantle entirely on their own and not in a position to sustain that kind of position.

I don't really see them completely abandoning the old capital. That feels stupid.

Also, about war: I think that a post apocolyptic setting like this having pointless idiot wars over art is dumb as hell. That's assuming the Great War even is that, I don't remember if it is or not.

[Forum Explorer]

Its not so much the idea isn't interesting, its the lack of giving the villains competency that I object to. Not that the rest of the happenings would have eased that blow, but when your main heroes tear through mooks like they don't even exist, you have to let your villains accomplish goals to stay a threat.



Except...it did. Big time. That train full of White Fang, proto-type paladins, and explosives that was followed by a horde of Grimm? It was supposed to burst into Vale during the Battle of Beacon and would have exponentially increased the casualties if not actually result in the fall of Vale itself. And in exchange(?) they had Roman on the airship...which Neo probably would have attacked regardless so his presence wasn't exactly necessary there.

So yeah, kinda a massive impact there.

You give villains competency by having them win fights, and actually adapt to difficulty, so it makes it feel like they are earning those victories. Or you keep your villains hidden and secret, so you don't need to explain how they are winning. But if you're giving them a lot of screentime, then they need proper character arcs like anyone else. Like Torchwick and even Neo had. Cinder, not so much. Her wins all feel handed to her, and even uber-charged with a Maiden's powers she still struggled to take down Phyrra.

Not really? I'd have to double check, but I believe the train left on time? The plan went through. The damage may have been more limited by RWBY's actions, but it still attacked when and how it was supposed to. ****, they even have Cinder call it a success at the end of episode 12.

[Lord Raziere]

Also, about war: I think that a post apocolyptic setting like this having pointless idiot wars over art is dumb as hell. That's assuming the Great War even is that, I don't remember if it is or not.

Depends on how you see it.

I can see a dictator, totalitarian minded person going:
"Huh, Grimm are attracted to fear and negative emotions right? And individuality, selfishness and whatnot and so on, these all cause these negative emotions, right? And art is like, the expression of individuality and spreads negative emotions around through media and such right? Like, we can't have people being afraid of fictional characters potentially losing some stupid frivolous fiction battle or something, we need to censor all media because it causes negative emotions- art is too dangerous because freedom of expression could destroy our society by bringing down the Grimm upon us! We need to be united, we need PAN-STOICISM! By being stoic and controlling ourselves down to every last man, woman and child so that we are all same, all uniform with no differences to cause conflict or suffering, there will be no fear or suffering produced!

Everyone will have the same hairstyle, the same clothes, the same stoic expressions on our face, and thus we will be strong in unity! We will of course, need to cut off all ears and tails from faunus- those set them apart from humans too much and we need to be all the same to be pan-stoic. There will be no colors- colors are the expression of emotion and thus all be grey. Grey is emotionless. Grey is steel, strong, unbreakable. We will united all of remnant under a banner of Pan-Stoicism, of grey control and discipline! With no emotions, the Grimm will have nothing to feed upon and we will be victorious. Feel nothing, and we will feel no fear."

This is totalitarian logic that has existed since Plato. We may think its stupid that tyrants have repeatedly suppressed art and media across history to control the state, but thats kind of why we came up with the right to free speech in the first place. Because they kept doing that on justifications like these. Whether or not they really meant well or if they just were doing it for their own personal gain.

[Reddish Mage]

Depends on how you see it.

I can see a dictator, totalitarian minded person going:
"Huh, Grimm are attracted to fear and negative emotions right? And individuality, selfishness and whatnot and so on, these all cause these negative emotions, right? And art is like, the expression of individuality and spreads negative emotions around through media and such right? Like, we can't have people being afraid of fictional characters potentially losing some stupid frivolous fiction battle or something, we need to censor all media because it causes negative emotions- art is too dangerous because freedom of expression could destroy our society by bringing down the Grimm upon us! We need to be united, we need PAN-STOICISM! By being stoic and controlling ourselves down to every last man, woman and child so that we are all same, all uniform with no differences to cause conflict or suffering, there will be no fear or suffering produced!

Everyone will have the same hairstyle, the same clothes, the same stoic expressions on our face, and thus we will be strong in unity! We will of course, need to cut off all ears and tails from faunus- those set them apart from humans too much and we need to be all the same to be pan-stoic. There will be no colors- colors are the expression of emotion and thus all be grey. Grey is emotionless. Grey is steel, strong, unbreakable. We will united all of remnant under a banner of Pan-Stoicism, of grey control and discipline! With no emotions, the Grimm will have nothing to feed upon and we will be victorious. Feel nothing, and we will feel no fear."

This is totalitarian logic that has existed since Plato. We may think its stupid that tyrants have repeatedly suppressed art and media across history to control the state, but thats kind of why we came up with the right to free speech in the first place. Because they kept doing that on justifications like these. Whether or not they really meant well or if they just were doing it for their own personal gain.

Somehow, I don't think that's what Plato had in mind...

Btw there's a new RWBY video that was thrown onto the Twitterverse:

https://twitter.com/Crunchyroll/stat...24701331550209

[Lord Raziere]

Somehow, I don't think that's what Plato had in mind...

I doubt so as well, but from a modern interpretation his idea of the perfect state sounds pretty totalitarian, and I have no doubt that people could've read Plato and tried to put his ideas into practice and thus end up becoming totalitarian dictators as a result. Misinterpretation is the bane of reason.

Just because he might not have meant it that way, doesn't mean that people didn't try.

That and there is also legalism that was put into practice in China by the first emperor, the guy who united China? very tyrannical, not a nice person and much more explicitly tyrannical in his philosophy. He literally burned all books except the ones he thought peasants needed. Poetry? Art? He wanted none of that, no Grimm needed to justify it to him. It was a thing beyond his control, so he crushed it. It expressed opinions that weren't his, so he got rid of it. That how tyranny works. Of course its stupid, thats why we don't do it, thats why RWBY doesn't do it.

But its not as if, the RWBY universe, can look at us and learn from our mistakes. They don't have magical fourth wall seeing powers, they can't go "oh hey, Earth did this and it didn't work out well without Grimm, lets avoid it!" No. If you want a separate universe where the protagonists are relatable and share your values? They have to have a history where they learned that lesson, similar to how we learned it from our history. You can't proclaim that them having a war in the past over this is stupid, because we've fought wars over the right to freedom of expression as well, that is what art is. You might as well say our own history is stupid for standing up to that.

the RWBY universe having a war where stamping out freedom of expression turned out to be a bad idea and now everyone tries not to do that, is good writing, and makes sense. Because it acknowledges an important factor of how fear works. You try to use force to rule and stamp out all opinions but you own, that just causes fear and hate that in real life, causes rebellion, discontent break down in society, not good at all. In RWBY universe, its worse because such things also attract GRIMM, therefore giving them more incentive to not be tyrannical jerks.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I don't really see them completely abandoning the old capital. That feels stupid.

Also, about war: I think that a post apocolyptic setting like this having pointless idiot wars over art is dumb as hell. That's assuming the Great War even is that, I don't remember if it is or not.

I don't think they completely abandoned it...but if the center for military might and scientific progres shifts like that, Mantle is going to be in a worse off position regardless...just depends on how worse off and Qrow inplies Mantle is NOT in a good place because of the move.

You give villains competency by having them win fights, and actually adapt to difficulty, so it makes it feel like they are earning those victories. Or you keep your villains hidden and secret, so you don't need to explain how they are winning. But if you're giving them a lot of screentime, then they need proper character arcs like anyone else. Like Torchwick and even Neo had. Cinder, not so much. Her wins all feel handed to her, and even uber-charged with a Maiden's powers she still struggled to take down Phyrra.

Not really? I'd have to double check, but I believe the train left on time? The plan went through. The damage may have been more limited by RWBY's actions, but it still attacked when and how it was supposed to. ****, they even have Cinder call it a success at the end of episode 12.

...what arc did Torchwick and Neo have so far?

And no, the train attack did not go as planned. Both the White Fang troops on the train and Emerald sound shocked when they hear the attack is happening/has happened. Emerald specifically says the attack wasn't supposed to happen for several more weeks...y'know around the time of the Vytal festival. Heck, its one of the few times Cinder emotes something besides smug confidence...she's troubled and is obviously thinking of how to turn this setback to their advantage.

Her answer was personally turn in Roman to solidfy their cover and plant some help for Neo later on. Not exactly a fair trade off for a third prong to a massive attack on Vale/Beacon but its something and hence the things going well...well as they coupd given thw situation.

[LaZodiac]

...what arc did Torchwick and Neo have so far?

Same as Cinder and the precious **** sticks she has as minions. But Roman was interesting and fun and Neo was an awfully designed character who was sort of attached to him so she could of been interesting by proxy.

[Forum Explorer]

...what arc did Torchwick and Neo have so far?

And no, the train attack did not go as planned. Both the White Fang troops on the train and Emerald sound shocked when they hear the attack is happening/has happened. Emerald specifically says the attack wasn't supposed to happen for several more weeks...y'know around the time of the Vytal festival. Heck, its one of the few times Cinder emotes something besides smug confidence...she's troubled and is obviously thinking of how to turn this setback to their advantage.

Her answer was personally turn in Roman to solidfy their cover and plant some help for Neo later on. Not exactly a fair trade off for a third prong to a massive attack on Vale/Beacon but its something and hence the things going well...well as they coupd given thw situation.

Same as the villains plus his relationship with RWBY. He recognized them, taunted them, and had a personal grudge with most of them. He shows actual concern for Neo, and his speech to Ruby wouldn't be nearly as effective if he hadn't been a reoccurring threat. I'm still sad they wasted his potential on a joke death. I can't think of a worse way to handle his death (or life) then what they went with, besides the absolutely absurd.

Neo is a mystery still, but an actual effective one. She's got some sort of relationship with Torchwick, a semi-interesting design, and has effortlessly won her fights against Ruby and Yang. Also she recognized their mother (or at least how powerful she is) and backed off immediately rather then try fighting her.

I'm going to have to ask for a link. They did go early, but I can't remember any mention of them going weeks earlier then expected, and I do remember Cinder saying that it was a success (It's in the last episode of S2.) I certainly do not remember her looked troubled or anything of the like. The only time I remember her not being smug is right before Ruby's eyes went boom. (Not counting when she was acting).

[Callos_DeTerran]

Same as the villains plus his relationship with RWBY. He recognized them, taunted them, and had a personal grudge with most of them. He shows actual concern for Neo, and his speech to Ruby wouldn't be nearly as effective if he hadn't been a reoccurring threat. I'm still sad they wasted his potential on a joke death. I can't think of a worse way to handle his death (or life) then what they went with, besides the absolutely absurd.

Neo is a mystery still, but an actual effective one. She's got some sort of relationship with Torchwick, a semi-interesting design, and has effortlessly won her fights against Ruby and Yang. Also she recognized their mother (or at least how powerful she is) and backed off immediately rather then try fighting her.

I'm going to have to ask for a link. They did go early, but I can't remember any mention of them going weeks earlier then expected, and I do remember Cinder saying that it was a success (It's in the last episode of S2.) I certainly do not remember her looked troubled or anything of the like. The only time I remember her not being smug is right before Ruby's eyes went boom. (Not counting when she was acting).

Torchwick sadly didn't have a purpose after the Battle of Beacon though, he was recruited because he knew Vale and was a thief that suited their purposes. Once the story moves beyond Vale...well...he didn't really have much else going for him that made an argument for keeping him around story wise, specially once his form of combat became 'let Neo handle it'....admittedly a very effective strategy. And fair enough on the other parts but that's not a real arc for me considering his character never developed or changed aside from finding out he cares about Neo...something that gets him killed.

As for a link, RWBY Volume 2, Episode 12: Breach at the 2:10 mark. I got it a bit wrong, they don't say weeks, they say days. Still don't know when Volume 3 starts in relation to 2 mind, but I wouldn't say its that long considering they were already welcoming students for the Vytal Festival at the end of Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 has to do with students preparing to participate in it. The festival itself seems to take almost no time at all so a time frame of days still makes it pretty clear that the train was supposed to 'attack' during the Battle of Beacon. At the same time Mercury and Emerald both ask Cinder what the heck they're supposed to do and they do a classic 'zoom on character's eyes while they barely move back and forth to signify rapid thinking'.

I can remember a few times of not smug Cinder..problem is they aren't very...obvious and its a problem cause they're relying on small changes in her facial expressions and the voice acting to convey it..but Cinder's voice acting isn't the strongest. The other times...hmmm well there was Cinder at the end of Heroes and Monsters when she confronts Ozpin, where she sounds coldly angry in her accusation towards him. There's the times she rebukes Emerald and Mercury but those are easy to pick out. There's her telling Pyrrha that she believes in destiny as well but the emotion is hard to read besides 'solemn' and we don't know enough about Cinder to know what it means for her...aside from the fact she stopped gloating when she heard that. There's also when observing the Battle of Beacon just before the Grimm Wyrm shows up when she sounds positively gleeful when commenting on the destruction while Emerald shows remorse and Mercury sounds excited.

...most obvious is, of course, when Ruby's eyes went boom and she disappeared.

[Forum Explorer]

Torchwick sadly didn't have a purpose after the Battle of Beacon though, he was recruited because he knew Vale and was a thief that suited their purposes. Once the story moves beyond Vale...well...he didn't really have much else going for him that made an argument for keeping him around story wise, specially once his form of combat became 'let Neo handle it'....admittedly a very effective strategy. And fair enough on the other parts but that's not a real arc for me considering his character never developed or changed aside from finding out he cares about Neo...something that gets him killed.

As for a link, RWBY Volume 2, Episode 12: Breach at the 2:10 mark. I got it a bit wrong, they don't say weeks, they say days. Still don't know when Volume 3 starts in relation to 2 mind, but I wouldn't say its that long considering they were already welcoming students for the Vytal Festival at the end of Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 has to do with students preparing to participate in it. The festival itself seems to take almost no time at all so a time frame of days still makes it pretty clear that the train was supposed to 'attack' during the Battle of Beacon. At the same time Mercury and Emerald both ask Cinder what the heck they're supposed to do and they do a classic 'zoom on character's eyes while they barely move back and forth to signify rapid thinking'.

I can remember a few times of not smug Cinder..problem is they aren't very...obvious and its a problem cause they're relying on small changes in her facial expressions and the voice acting to convey it..but Cinder's voice acting isn't the strongest. The other times...hmmm well there was Cinder at the end of Heroes and Monsters when she confronts Ozpin, where she sounds coldly angry in her accusation towards him. There's the times she rebukes Emerald and Mercury but those are easy to pick out. There's her telling Pyrrha that she believes in destiny as well but the emotion is hard to read besides 'solemn' and we don't know enough about Cinder to know what it means for her...aside from the fact she stopped gloating when she heard that. There's also when observing the Battle of Beacon just before the Grimm Wyrm shows up when she sounds positively gleeful when commenting on the destruction while Emerald shows remorse and Mercury sounds excited.

...most obvious is, of course, when Ruby's eyes went boom and she disappeared.

Oh, I agree that it's an ending time for his arc, though I can think of a scenario that works with him alive, but I hate how he died. If Ruby had killed him? That would've been huge. Had Cinder killed him somehow? It could've worked. Getting gibbed by a random GRIM? Just disappointing. Well with less screentime, he managed to exhibit more personality and develop an interesting character then Cinder, so villain arc wise, I'd say he's the best we got. And yeah, it's not a pleasant ending to his arc, and he doesn't change all that much. Villains that aren't redeemed generally don't and end up dead.

I'd argue that, and say it was supposed to arrive when the actual guests were showing up, so there would be a lot more innocent bystanders hanging around. And I got the feeling the tournament was over a couple of weeks. Most international tournaments do tend to take that long at least. But I do concede that there was at least the chance it was supposed to happen at the same time. Though again, Cinder's plan still succeeded in getting her what she wanted.

Be it crappy acting or crappy writing, Cinder is still boring and what I consider a failure as a character.

[LaZodiac]

Let's put it this way.

Mobile Suit Gundam and Char's Counter Attack Spoilers Below.

Spoiler

Show

In Char's Counter Attack, Char Aznable, originally some enemy ace, has gone on to become this big super badass leader who's trying to purify the world in order to unify it under one banner. Now, originally, in MGS, he was just an ace pilot for the enemy side, and in the end betrayed them because all he cared about was getting revenge on his bosses for treating him like **** and killing his father, and his own survival, and having one final duel against his rival.

This is very much, I feel, like Roman. Not to the EXACT same degree, the suffering he went through under Cinder does not compare, but it's still there. Except for a difference. In Amuro's first fight with Char, Char wins but is pushed away, just like with Ruby and Roman. Second real time they meet, there's some parting shots, but in the end Char/Roman retreat with their side losing. This is the train battle for RWBY, and the Tri Blackstars/Odessa Incident for Gundam.

In the final meeting with Char, Amuro manages to get him to a draw. He wins the moral victory because now Char has to use tech to catch up with his skills, putting them on an equal field. But Char still technically wins the actual fight just due to pure damage, Amuro almost dying. But this is where the difference comes in.

But Ruby never gets her "Rapier fight with Char" scene. She gets caned over the head like a petulant child, disposes of Roman's advantage (a friend) through nonsense, and then LOSES ANYWAY, DEFINITIVELY, until a random Grimm eats him. This is ****ing AWFUL.

Now, the reason why I bring up Char's Counterattack in this is because in Char's Counterattack, we get one final fight between Amuro and Char. And our hero finally beats him, idealogically and physically, and he shows him how his conviction has seen him through, finally. It is incredibly satisfying and very wonderful, finally seeing Char realize he's been bested, once and truly for all, and that his plan to unify the planet is dumb because...it already is, through the peace that Amuro fought for.

As long as you're watching the anime, that is.

In the novelization Char gets shot by a random mook and dies and they never really meet. Roosterteeth would like this ending more.

[Phexar]

Did they lose? She was just standing there going "just as planned!" It wasn't a win or a loss. It was nothing. Nothing of any consequence.

She didn't plan ahead for it, just commented that the day was a success. Transcript of the relevant scenes below.

http://rwby.wikia.com/wiki/Breach/Transcript

As the Bullhead takes off, Mercury Black, Cinder Fall, and Emerald Sustrai watch nearby.

Emerald: You don't think...
Mercury: Sure looks like it.
Emerald: That's still days away!
Mercury: So? What do we do?

The camera pans to a close-up of Cinder's face, before she makes her decision.

Cinder, Mercury, and Emerald meet discreetly at a rooftop.

Cinder: All in all, I call today a success.
Emerald: Those stupid kids really made a mess of things.
Mercury: Yeah. A lot of Faunus didn't make it out the tunnels. You still think the White Fang's gonna listen to us?
Adam: No, but they'll listen to me.

The camera pans to Adam Taurus. The camera cuts to black as the end credits roll.

As for Mantle, I'm hoping we'll see more of what's going on with it through Weiss's eyes since she'll be up in Atlas now with her father.

[Calemyr]

Torchwick would either survive and run away, or Ruby would kill him. None of this 'eaten for a joke' nonsense.

I don't think Torchwick was "eaten for a joke". The man was exuding some pretty negative emotions, and I think part of it was to show that even team CRME isn't above the Grimm. Not really.

I don't think it was handled perfectly, of course. Having Ruby say something like "No! Don't talk like that when there are so many Grimm around!" would have made it clear it had a purpose beyond a sudden pointless death of someone who greatly overestimated his place in the story (but not our hearts).

[Callos_DeTerran]

I don't think Torchwick was "eaten for a joke". The man was exuding some pretty negative emotions, and I think part of it was to show that even team CRME isn't above the Grimm. Not really.

I don't think it was handled perfectly, of course. Having Ruby say something like "No! Don't talk like that when there are so many Grimm around!" would have made it clear it had a purpose beyond a sudden pointless death of someone who greatly overestimated his place in the story (but not our hearts).

I'm with Calemyr on this one, it wasn't executed particularly well but it felt like they were going for 'even the villains are prey to the Grimm'. And, on a different note, that it showed Ruby's outlook on life was better...at least if you live in Remnant. All throughout the fight she gets attacked by Grimm three times when the Gryphons had previously ignored the ship, the implication likely being that Ruby who's confused, angry, and sad because of Penny's death is actively luring them too her.

Once Neo is dealt with and Ruby makes her badass boast, re-asserting her view that she can just make the world a better place? No more Grimm attacks. Roman? No attacks while he's full of swagger and confidence, but after Neo's gone and he's giving his surprisingly depressed/cynical view point about 'how the world is' and how he's content to survive even if it means killing hundreds of others? Gryphon swoops down and eats him. You can watch the Gryphons, barely, during the fight too..before Neo is gone they're circling to the right and give the impression they are actively stalking Ruby. After Neo is gone? They switch direction.

Could be unintentional, but it didn't feel like it when I noticed it...if for no other reason it would have been simpler to just keep having the background Gryphons swarming in the same direction the entire time, especially if you can barely see them...er..simpler animation wise that is.

Its pretty clear that Roman's way of thinking is shown to be not only self-destructive but a Grimm lure.

[Lethologica]

I don't think Torchwick was "eaten for a joke". The man was exuding some pretty negative emotions, and I think part of it was to show that even team CRME isn't above the Grimm. Not really.

I don't think it was handled perfectly, of course. Having Ruby say something like "No! Don't talk like that when there are so many Grimm around!" would have made it clear it had a purpose beyond a sudden pointless death of someone who greatly overestimated his place in the story (but not our hearts).

I think that sort of clarification is best handled without dialogue. It can be made more or less clear with more or less camera work showing the Grimm's behavior, to a fairly high degree of precision. Camera work can also fool the viewer into thinking it means one thing (Grimm are on Roman's side in some way) until his death changes the meaning (Grimm were actually drawn to Torchwick's negativity). Dialogue can't do that, and it would also interrupt Torchwick's dialogue, to the scene's detriment.

it wasn't executed particularly well but it felt like they were going for

oh god this captures my relationship with this show so well

I don't see any particular change in the Grimm's flight patterns, though. There are Grimm below the ship who are more or less ignoring things and flying left across the screen, and there are Grimm above the ship who are flying in both directions across the screen (possibly circling the ship, possibly not) while Ruby fights first Roman and Neo, then just Roman. Both of those patterns are constant throughout the scene--there's no change in reaction to Neo's unplanned departure or Torchwick's change in demeanor.

Ruby does get attacked by a Grimm at a moment of particular desperation when she's hanging off the rear of the ship, which would fit with an intention to draw Grimm to whoever's feeling more negative emotions in the scene. But the Grimm's behavior otherwise does little to convey that until Torchwick actually gets eaten.

[Forum Explorer]

I don't think Torchwick was "eaten for a joke". The man was exuding some pretty negative emotions, and I think part of it was to show that even team CRME isn't above the Grimm. Not really.

I don't think it was handled perfectly, of course. Having Ruby say something like "No! Don't talk like that when there are so many Grimm around!" would have made it clear it had a purpose beyond a sudden pointless death of someone who greatly overestimated his place in the story (but not our hearts).

That sounds less like a reach, and more like desperately trying to come up with an explanation on why that makes sense. Basically, not only do I not buy that explanation, I don't even believe that you buy that explanation.

While for a joke, well it seems a lot like this scene from James Bond Goldeneye. A dramatic declaration of survival right before getting killed anyways? Classic.

[Ronnoc]

That sounds less like a reach, and more like desperately trying to come up with an explanation on why that makes sense. Basically, not only do I not buy that explanation, I don't even believe that you buy that explanation.

While for a joke, well it seems a lot like this scene from James Bond Goldeneye. A dramatic declaration of survival right before getting killed anyways? Classic.

Different people see different things. First time I watched it my assumption was that he got eaten due to negativity.

[Forum Explorer]

Different people see different things. First time I watched it my assumption was that he got eaten due to negativity.

Clearly you didn't watch enough James Bond as a child.

[LaZodiac]

That sounds less like a reach, and more like desperately trying to come up with an explanation on why that makes sense. Basically, not only do I not buy that explanation, I don't even believe that you buy that explanation.

While for a joke, well it seems a lot like this scene from James Bond Goldeneye. A dramatic declaration of survival right before getting killed anyways? Classic.

Of course the difference here being that Boris is one character in a movie full of actually good, well written characters. They also set up the punchline really well.

Also, he's NOT the most charismatic villain in the film, which is a big deal. He's got crooked teeth and has a generally slurry accent and is clearly an *******.

Roosterteeth could learn a thing or two from this

[LaZodiac]

PRobably the last WOR for the week, this one's about the Vacuum kingdom. It was great but everyone sucked so when Atlas and the others came by to take stuff, they got stomped on. Why? Why not share? You have abundent resources and war literally brings in the Grimm. You know this. Why not share?

And it appears that now Vacuouoououou is now a barren wasteland of sorts, with giant Schnee corp factories causing untold damage by mining. This would be a far more compelling reason for the stupid tuba man to be angry at Weiss by the way.

Also heeeey, Vacuum is the one country that doesn't do a racist, because it's a death field. I'm okay with this, but it does seem a little silly.

So, theories based on all these. The one continent we didn't look at was the big obvious dragon looking one with all the nasty blackness. That's where Salem is, obviously. Menagerie is probably never going to be important (and for the record, if it's now the Faunus country that they own and control, why is it still basically called "THE ZOO"?) and we're likely going to be visiting these in order. If I recall Ruby and her group was heading to Mistral, right? I don't remember.

One last question remains though. How can someone as ****ty as Neptune and Wukong be from Vacuo?

[Lord Raziere]

One last question remains though. How can someone as ****ty as Neptune and Wukong be from Vacuo?

Keep in mind that Vacuo is also the most casual and freedom of expression kind of people in the world. Y'know, with the most casual uniforms.

I think the real question is: why wouldn't losers such as Neptune and Wukong leave Vacuo for greener pastures, knowing how bad at combat they are?

[LaZodiac]

Keep in mind that Vacuo is also the most casual and freedom of expression kind of people in the world. Y'know, with the most casual uniforms.

I think the real question is: why wouldn't losers such as Neptune and Wukong leave Vacuo for greener pastures, knowing how bad at combat they are?

I meant that more from the sense of "every time anyone on Wukong ****ty team has fought they've got utterly owned by everyone and only win due to garbage idiocy". They're from a DEATH PLAINS school.

[Lord Raziere]

I meant that more from the sense of "every time anyone on Wukong ****ty team has fought they've got utterly owned by everyone and only win due to garbage idiocy". They're from a DEATH PLAINS school.

Which is why they left. Its not as if they're going to go back, and if its dangerous as they say, then why would Vacuo send their BEST hunters for a frivolous festival far away and leave their WORST ones to defend Vacuo? And why would they want their worst back?

[Callos_DeTerran]

Which is why they left. Its not as if they're going to go back, and if its dangerous as they say, then why would Vacuo send their BEST hunters for a frivolous festival far away and leave their WORST ones to defend Vacuo? And why would they want their worst back?

...Is Sun that crappy of a fighter? When he first showed up he was able to fight Torchwick one on one (something Blake couldn't do) and he was the one who made it to the singles round of the Vytal tournament. The same one that had Yang, Penny, and Pyrrha which would mean his team definitely thought he had the best chance of winning the tournament for Vacuouuu(?) on their team (each Kingdom sent multiple teams).

Dude has been either thrown out of the fight or just hasn't fought since then until their round of the Vytal tournament which..was basically played off as a big joke. I want to see Sun actually fight like he did against Torchwick if for no other reason than to see how good he is.

...Neptune I couldn't care less about.

[Calemyr]

Sun's a good fighter, I think. When he gets a time to shine, he's pretty solid. Their team battle was against Indigo, a fan team, so they could be allowed to just steamroll the fight, you know? He makes a few good moves on Torchwick in both of their fights, but not enough to outshine the heroines.

Neptune's fear of water makes an odd bit of sense if his semblance is electrical (mostly in salt water), but it's overplayed and he comes off looking like an idiot. I think he's portrayed as competent but comically overcompensating for his failings (inability to dance, fear of water).

Being rid of the two of them will be a major bonus for changing the setting. They'll come back, I'm sure, but I still don't understand why all of the students from other kingdoms spent the better part of a frickin' semester at Beacon. They did this every year?