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  1. - Top - End - #481
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Is that yes or no? I play stormcasts not pirate dwarfs.

  2. - Top - End - #482
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Just flipping through the Battletome, I'm gonna say yes they're very strong. Allegiance Abilities are great, and yes the Chapter Tactics Temple Abilities are free with your allegiance. Good (not amazing) Artifacts, crazy good Spells and Prayers. Points seem very solid, ranging from reasonably priced to "are we really sure Morathi and Witch Aelves should be that cheap?". Battalions are all extremely cheap as well, which is surprising with how much all the existing ones got jacked up in cost.

    And yes, one of the temples is Raven Guard that can teleport a unit per turn. It seems... insane.

  3. - Top - End - #483
    Banned
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Brief 1K Temple Nest List

    Temple Nest
    - Hagg Narr
    - Bloodwrack Medusa
    -- Devoted Disciple
    -- Mindrazor, Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield, Enfeebling Foe
    -- Crown of Woe
    - 5* Blood Sisters
    - 5* Blood Sisters
    - 5* Bloodseekers
    - 5* Bloodseekers

    Allied
    - Kharibdyss

    1000pts on the dot.

    Quick Explanation; Medusa and Blood Sisters (melee) move to the attack as soon as possible. Bloodwrack Medusa uses her Shooting or Arcane Bolt to put wounds downrange to trigger the Crowns 14" range. Use The Kharibdyss and the Crown to drop all but Bravery 10 dudes to Bravery 7 or lower, and bang out with Mindrazor to pump out 15 3+ Hit/3+ Wound/-1 Rend/2 Damage attacks.

    The alternate is to try and work out how to get the Avatar of Khaine to stay alive until Turn 3, but still get into combat quickly enough.

  4. - Top - End - #484
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    After having my beasts thoroughly thrashed by nugle I would like to raise a middle finger to codex creep.

    Why did they have to get rid of all my named characters and make them fall so far behind everybody else. We have nothing.

  5. - Top - End - #485
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    9mm's Avatar

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Rule of Cool former designer

    Games I'm playing: League of Legends, Mechwarrior Online

  6. - Top - End - #486
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Warhammer legends has me hopeful that I'll get at least Malagor back, if not Kazerak. but the "Not intended for meatched play" has me worried that they won't have point costs. I'll be stuck a gain with a "Beastlord" and "Great Bray Shaman"

  7. - Top - End - #487
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I'm pretty sure they said at the panel that there won't be points, Narrative and Open only.

    I really love those Deepkin kits. Giant turtle, eel cavalry, awesome Wizard kits... Yeah this aesthetic hits it for me. Even the eyeless infantry looks cool imo.

  8. - Top - End - #488
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I guess beasts don't get nice things.

  9. - Top - End - #489
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Yeah this aesthetic hits it for me. Even the eyeless infantry looks cool imo.
    Not sure how I feel about their fluff though.
    Teclis genetically engineers a bunch of Aelves for the war, does an oopsie, and suddenly it's out of his hands?
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  10. - Top - End - #490
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Adepticon was amazing! 8 awesome games, all with great players and varied lists, no real filth.

    Was playing Aetherstrike, did fairly well with it but honestly it struggles with scoring because it wants to castle up so hard. Gonna try some more decentralized lists. Still having so much fun playing, which is great after a long weekend of games.

  11. - Top - End - #491
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Very Nice!

    I just won my store's malign portents campaign, using this list:

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    Battalion: Skyborn Slayers
    Lord-Celestant, Master of Defense, Obsidian Blade

    Liberators, Hammers
    Liberators, Hammers
    Judicators, Bows
    Judicators, Crossbows

    Protectors
    Decimators


    Celestant-Prime
    Fulminators
    Prosecutors, Javalins


    The mission was starfall, so I put everything except the Fulminators and Prosecutors in the celestial realm. My Fulminators spent the first two turns sitting in cover laughing at a pair of bastilidons trying to shoot them, then on my turn 2 punked Lord Kroak (who had failed the votex summoning spell twice). Round 3 I got the first turn and landed the slayers on the objective on his side while the prosecutors claimed the one on my side (he had moved most of his stuff around the first objective right in the middle of the board) I punked one bastilidon, but the other one still had mystic sheild and lasted a long time against my liberators.

    He managed to double-turn me, but the damage was done, and Prime-Time came in turn 4 to wipe out his chameleon skinks that were trying to take the objective on my side.

    I also went up against a different player with vortex-Kroak and two bastilidons last week. That time I punked kroak with a little shooting and a liberator squad after he teleported right in front of my guys, then popped the +2 to cast portent, then rolled a 1 and 2 to cast vortex, then used one of Kroaks re-rolls on the 1 to get annother 1. He actually gave me more of a challenge since it was the burn objectives mission, and he kept on making 9 inch charges with his skinks to take objectives off of me.

  12. - Top - End - #492
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Just reading the winner of Adepticon's deck-list for Shadespire.

    It's the Ironskullz, but additionally the decklist has...
    Fyreslayers
    Skaven
    Core Set
    Undead

    ...So, that's all four expansions including the boxed game equals winning.
    But honestly, who didn't see that coming?

    "It's like X-Wing!" ...as if it's a positive comparison.
    But no really, I hate the business model so much.
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  13. - Top - End - #493
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Wow, a whole £140 for a tournament-winning army and every other army? Thank god 40k doesn't ask us to spend those ridiculous sums of money.
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  14. - Top - End - #494
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    Wow, a whole £140 for a tournament-winning army and every other army?
    While that wasn't my point, I do see your point.
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  15. - Top - End - #495
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I do get why it's grating to require people to buy extra boxes for competitiveness. In particular I feel like it's a much more "hidden" cost than a full army (even taking into account that you 40k/AOS requires you to keep buying new stuff to keep up with the meta.) It also will only get more annoying as time goes on. (Once the next set of six boxes is out and you're now paying £300ish, then it starts to get really annoying).

    Even so, I still feel that it's not too bad, particularly given:
    • That gets you all the armies, not just one - so you have a much broader range of play experiences (and a much easier time updating to deal with the meta).
    • The startup cost for a competitive 40k army is the same as a casual one of the same size*. To play shadespire, the buy-in is £25, and while you can't top tournaments with that much money, you can play full games, not just hanging around in the shallows of 750pt games.
    • The first few boxes were all designed together, and so I'm willing to bet that single-box warbands are more balanced against each other than "casual" or "starter" 40k lists. I admit I don't actually know this, though.


    If someone enjoyed both games equally and had equal access to both (the real sticking point for me, I don't know any shadespire players IRL) then I know which I would recommend if money was a concern.

    *Okay, yeah, perhaps not? I imagine your typical comp guardspam list or similar runs pretty expensive as compared to something with more points-to-pounds but less quality. But both are still looking at 10x the cost of a shadespire box and double the cost of a Shadespire Complete Kit, so I think my point broadly stands.
    Last edited by LeSwordfish; 2018-03-28 at 05:33 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #496
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I do get why it's grating to require people to buy extra boxes for competitiveness.
    For people who start at the beginning, it's not so bad. Someone who bought the Shadespire Core Set around the time it came out, and then bought all expansions as they came out, would have, at this point only spent $20 ($15.3 US) per week. The problem is...

    It also will only get more annoying as time goes on.
    A brand new player is looking to spend ~$400 up front. Which is real bad (for game where 'you only need <5 models, right?), and yes, you're looking to spend more as time goes on if you miss a Wave or hold off on an expansion for whatever financial reason suits you. Once you've fallen behind, it's pretty hard to catch up. You might even say that it's actually pretty close to the dreaded Pay 2 Win. Buy literally everything. Win games.

    The startup cost for a competitive 40k army is the same as a casual one of the same size*.
    The difference is that 40K is bringing out Kill Team again. Or there's always Necromunda. AoS has Skirmish and Path to Glory or whatever it's called.

    40K doesn't advertise itself as a small game - that's Kill Team. If someone is looking to play 40K, they know they need a lot of models. Standard games are 1500+. That's your buy-in, and you're pretty much told that, up front.

    Shadespire says "Look how easy this is, one box and you're good to go." ...Totally wrong. Lies. "You only need three models to play X-Wing. Even the worst Swarm army tops at 8. So easy." Yeah. That's cool. But how many cards do I need, where do I get those cards, and how much are the cards? The upfront cost of Shadespire gets larger, the more stuff gets released.

    To play shadespire, the buy-in is £25, and while you can't top tournaments with that much money, you can play full games, not just hanging around in the shallows of 750pt games.
    In which case I'll compare your decklist to your army list. If you look at my Building on a Budget over in the 40K Thread. You can get to 2000 Points pretty easily. The problem is whether or not it's going to be any good.

    Great. You have your brand new deck based on the one Fyreslayer expansion you have. Your opponent - also playing Fyreslayers - has all expansions available to him. Guess who's going to win? But, same amount of cards in the deck, right?

    Buy any 60 Magic cards you want. Great. Deck made. Time to play with the big boys, right? Everyone else only has 60 cards, right? Must be an equal playing field because everyone has the same amount of stuff... Uhh...Right?

    That gets you all the armies, not just one - so you have a much broader range of play experiences (and a much easier time updating to deal with the meta)
    This is actually the only benefit. If you hate your Warband, just switch. Since you have all cards, all the time, there's no problem.
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  17. - Top - End - #497
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    So my local organizer dropped that we had the largest The Coalescence: Malign Portents event in the states this saint patties day. Sweet.
    Rule of Cool former designer

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  18. - Top - End - #498
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaktan View Post
    Very Nice!

    I just won my store's malign portents campaign, using this list:

    Spoiler
    Show

    Battalion: Skyborn Slayers
    Lord-Celestant, Master of Defense, Obsidian Blade

    Liberators, Hammers
    Liberators, Hammers
    Judicators, Bows
    Judicators, Crossbows

    Protectors
    Decimators


    Celestant-Prime
    Fulminators
    Prosecutors, Javalins


    The mission was starfall, so I put everything except the Fulminators and Prosecutors in the celestial realm. My Fulminators spent the first two turns sitting in cover laughing at a pair of bastilidons trying to shoot them, then on my turn 2 punked Lord Kroak (who had failed the votex summoning spell twice). Round 3 I got the first turn and landed the slayers on the objective on his side while the prosecutors claimed the one on my side (he had moved most of his stuff around the first objective right in the middle of the board) I punked one bastilidon, but the other one still had mystic sheild and lasted a long time against my liberators.

    He managed to double-turn me, but the damage was done, and Prime-Time came in turn 4 to wipe out his chameleon skinks that were trying to take the objective on my side.

    I also went up against a different player with vortex-Kroak and two bastilidons last week. That time I punked kroak with a little shooting and a liberator squad after he teleported right in front of my guys, then popped the +2 to cast portent, then rolled a 1 and 2 to cast vortex, then used one of Kroaks re-rolls on the 1 to get annother 1. He actually gave me more of a challenge since it was the burn objectives mission, and he kept on making 9 inch charges with his skinks to take objectives off of me.
    Congrats! I love Skyborne Slayers, thinking of returning to it. I think it's a nice well rounded battalion, mix of hard punching, shooting, and troops.

    Kroaknado is a real pain for Stormcast, but sounds like you've done well against it, nice! Some events are already talking about nerfing/banning the Balewind, because literally nobody who plays competitively likes it.


    @Shadespire discussion:

    Buying all expacs is a pain point for sure. I planned to anyway just to have them, because I want painting projects and enjoy having a variety to play with (now that Adepticon is over, I'm just gonna mess around with various warbands and lists instead of playtesting my competitive Skellies/Skaven), so it doesn't bother me. But I was thinking about how hard the buy in is now for new players, so it's definitely a potential issue.

    However, imo, it's the same as 40k/AoS. You spent minimally and have a deck/list you threw together? You're not topping tournaments. But, it's also the responsibility of your opponent to recognize that and not bring a facesmash list against a new player and make their life hell. The investment is pretty similar, and you're getting nice models and a potential casual game for board game nights out of it as well.

  19. - Top - End - #499
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Not totally impressed that the next Shadespire 'bands are more Stormcasts and Bloodbound.
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  20. - Top - End - #500
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Not totally impressed that the next Shadespire 'bands are more Stormcasts and Bloodbound.
    I'm interested in their rules now that they've leaked a bit, but I agree, kinda wish they were something different. However, Farstriders being a ranged disruption force rather than another punch-up force seems really cool. Khorne seems to just be a straight fight force, with something fancy for the pup. More interested in the neutral cards, though.

    A few stores around me got the Organized Play stuff with the trophies and what not, so I'm gonna try to go and win something. I've done well so far, but now there's trophies on the line so we'll see. Might switch back to Skeletons, they feel like they have a bit more depth than the Skaven, though I've really only tried one archetype with the Rats.

    Speaking of which, here are those two warbands cuz they're my only painted ones so far:

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  21. - Top - End - #501
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    However, Farstriders being a ranged disruption force...
    See, when I first read the word 'Farstriders', I was like "Oh, hell yes. Wanderers in Shadespire..." Then I clicked the link and was very, very disappointed.

    More interested in the neutral cards, though.
    The cards are all anyone is interested in, ever. That's how Shadespire works. AFAIC, you could put literally any model you want on a Shadespire table, because Warbands are always fixed. So by having any models on the table at all, they must be a certain set. You just tell your opponent which model represents which character, and nothing changes.
    - Short of the standard 'proxy' problems, where people identify certain models as specific things, and thus make their decisions based off of what they know the model can do.

    The only things that ever change, are the cards. Thus, the cards are the only thing that's ever going to be interesting in a Shadespire expansion.
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  22. - Top - End - #502
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    See, when I first read the word 'Farstriders', I was like "Oh, hell yes. Wanderers in Shadespire..." Then I clicked the link and was very, very disappointed.



    The cards are all anyone is interested in, ever. That's how Shadespire works. AFAIC, you could put literally any model you want on a Shadespire table, because Warbands are always fixed. So by having any models on the table at all, they must be a certain set. You just tell your opponent which model represents which character, and nothing changes.
    - Short of the standard 'proxy' problems, where people identify certain models as specific things, and thus make their decisions based off of what they know the model can do.

    The only things that ever change, are the cards. Thus, the cards are the only thing that's ever going to be interesting in a Shadespire expansion.
    Mmm, agree and disagree. Of course neutral cards are going to have a huge impact, but the warbands definitely affect the game. Skaven in particular rather shaped how people built their decks, going a bit more defensive to make up for how much on an assassin Skritch is, or putting in more pushes to prevent Fyreslayers from Inspiring.

    But yes, plenty of people are just snagging the neutrals and building a meta around those, but I think that's a bit narrow and it's what makes people think one warband or another is OP.

  23. - Top - End - #503
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Similar to picking up Quest for Ghal Maraz, I was able to pick up Mighty Battles in an Age of Unending War.

    However, I can't help but notice that that's the same as the tag line as what's on the AoS boxed game.
    What part of Mighty Battles' is repeated in the game?
    a.k.a. Where do I start that people wont've read yet?
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  24. - Top - End - #504
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Honestly all my knowledge has come from bits and pieces and Battletomes, I haven't read many of the lore books/campaign books and only a couple BL novels. I'd love anything you want to share!

  25. - Top - End - #505
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...oneth-deepkin/

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-1/

    Aquatic Theme? Check.
    Interesting, thematic rules? Check.
    Really dope models (them eyeless troops)? Check.

    Sorry wifey, about my next paycheck....


    But seriously, I like the tide system. "Board wide" rules like this and Nurgle I find really interesting because both players can see what's happening and have to play around it (also assuming that they'll have some way to modify the Tide like Nurgle does). I'm very curious to see what the rules are like, if the army special rules are that strong. Sort of expecting the Namarti to be basically worthless (hit on 5+/wound on 5+/D1 weapons and the like) but make up a huge part of your screening/scoring game. Very excited for the characters and to see what they're like.

  26. - Top - End - #506
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I find myself thinking

    "D&D Dragon Turtles ought to be like that - it would allow for True Dragons to have evolved from them, since Idoneth turtles and True Dragons are six-limbed"
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  27. - Top - End - #507
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    They look deliberately designed to be proxyable as Dark Eldar. Turtle = Raider, shark thing = whatever the Vyper knock-off is called, eel riders = jetbikes.
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  28. - Top - End - #508
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    So... as someone who ran away screaming when AoS came out, but is now increasingly intrigued by the new models (sky dwarves! sea elves! murder elves!), how much fun is it as a game? Is it worth getting into, or should I just stick with 40k?

    I'm particularly interested in how much AoS is just 'throw dice at each other', as it seems on first glance as if it would be worse than 40k, what with the static to wound roll as well as static to hit roll, it seems like there is always going to be a clear 'best' unit, rather than having to weigh up whether I want to have high toughness, good armour, high strength, good ap etc.
    Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.

  29. - Top - End - #509
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    So... as someone who ran away screaming when AoS came out, but is now increasingly intrigued by the new models (sky dwarves! sea elves! murder elves!), how much fun is it as a game? Is it worth getting into, or should I just stick with 40k?

    I'm particularly interested in how much AoS is just 'throw dice at each other', as it seems on first glance as if it would be worse than 40k, what with the static to wound roll as well as static to hit roll, it seems like there is always going to be a clear 'best' unit, rather than having to weigh up whether I want to have high toughness, good armour, high strength, good ap etc.
    AoS is very fun. I like it more than 40k in a lot of ways. While the static hit/wound statlines seem boring or "math-y" at the beginning, the variety of units and synergies make it difficult to say what is "best" in any given situation. For sure, there are times where you can look at two units and say that one is "better", but usually the "worse" one will have an ability or point cost that makes it just as competitive. The General's Handbook (aka Chapter Approved but earlier) really helped the game take shape in that regard.

    There are a lot of varied lists at the top level of play. While there are a couple that reach unfun levels (Changehost or Tzeentch Skyfire spam are the common examples), even most of the hyper competitive armies are interesting and fun to play with/against. Especially as someone who played 7e 40k with Superfriendstar, WK/Scatbike spam, Battlecompany, the gameplay in AoS is really refreshing

    I enjoy both, though. If possible, try out AoS and see how you like it. If you have specific questions, we can answer them for you as well!

    PS: Don't be scared of the double turn. It's scary but you learn to play with/around it.

  30. - Top - End - #510
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Yeah, I find that Sigmar games can be quite strategic. I find that good missions make a big impact on stuff, and the latest general's handbook missions are quite good.

    Because there is more of a meele focus, I find that you get lots of strategy going on in choosing what units to fight with first as you ram into eachother over objectives. I really like my Fulminators--strongly resist shooting, good meele on the charge, and if they get charged they blast you away with lightning. In my last game I had a pair of them sitting in cover tank two turns of two bastilidons shooting death rays at them before coming out to kill a key enemy character around an objective in the center of the board.

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