The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    What's in the force org chart?
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    What's in the force org chart?
    You can only have so many Leaders (Heroes/Characters/whatever). For 1000 it's 1-4, for 2000 it's 1-6, and 2500 it's 1-8. You can still relatively spam if you want, but it's hard to make an army full of them.

    You must have a base amount of Battleline units. These are basically troops. Some units are always Battleline (like Skeletons) while others only become Battleline if you play that allegiance only (Black Knights are Battleline if you only play Deathrattle units in your army). 1000 is 2+ units, 2000 is 3+, 2500 is 4+. So, basically meaning you can't just take power units, much like a CAD.

    You can only have so many Behemoths (big monsters). 1000 is 0-2, 2000 is 0-4, 2500 is 0-5.
    You can only have so many Artillery units. 1000 is 0-2, 2000 is 0-4, 2500 is 0-5.

    Units that have multiple roles (like character riding Dragons are Leader, Behemoth) take up a slot for both. So you can take an Archmage on a Dragon as your required 1 Leader, but it also counts towards your Behemoth limitation.

    I think it works quite well. It's not perfect, but neither is the 40k CAD since some armies can abuse it way more than others. At the very least, it gives you point values (which themselves seem to be pretty good, time will tell as I said) and keeps people from bringing nothing but power units and nothing else.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Sounds a lot like the system used in 6th/7th WFB (particularly the way the requirements scale with points value). I assume the book's got a big list of which units are in which category (for those categories that aren't defined by keywords)?

    Going purely off my intuition from what things used to cost, though, up to 2 big monsters and up to 4 characters in 1k still sounds like herohammer is on the table - you'll just have to take two min-sized core units as a tax.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    Sounds a lot like the system used in 6th/7th WFB (particularly the way the requirements scale with points value). I assume the book's got a big list of which units are in which category (for those categories that aren't defined by keywords)?

    Going purely off my intuition from what things used to cost, though, up to 2 big monsters and up to 4 characters in 1k still sounds like herohammer is on the table - you'll just have to take two min-sized core units as a tax.
    I don't know the WHFB systems, but yeah it does have a list of all currently available units in the Handbook and their roles. It's pretty straightforward, though, from looking at things - characters are Leaders, big things are Behemoths, long range damage stuff is Artillery, basic troops are Battleline. But, it's nice to have the clarification for sure.

    As Cheese said, some missions require you to have 5 models on an objective to hold it, so while you can go Herohammer, you'd probably lose in missions. But, you can go for the tabling, which is very similar to how 40k armies play as well, like Deathstars and Flyrant spam and stuff.

    The one thing I note is that it's hard to make exactly 1000/2000/2500 point lists. The only pricing is the units themselves, and you always have to pay the minimum price. For example, if your Battleline unit is 120 for 5, you add another 120 for each 5 more you want to add, but if you only add 3, then you still add 120 since it's between 5 and 10. So, if you're at like 980 points, there are no upgrades to fill out the points with like there are in 40k. I guess that's just something to take into account when list building, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    For example, if your Battleline unit is 120 for 5, you add another 120 for each 5 more you want to add, but if you only add 3, then you still add 120 since it's between 5 and 10.
    Correct. There is no reason to have less than the models you're allowed. There are only a handful of boxes that GW sells that screw it up.
    (e.g; Leadbelchers and Ironguts come in blocks of 3, but GW sells boxes of 4 models)

    So, if you're at like 980 points, there are no upgrades to fill out the points with like there are in 40k.
    Yep. Triumphs are designed to fix the gap, of whoever has the least points gets a (fairly minor) bonus. I've already mentioned how people deliberately hamstrung themselves to gain said bonus. In 1000 Point games, we found that the bonus wasn't worth 60 Points (940), but it was worth 40-50 (950-960).

    Due to how Allies work, just trawl through your Faction 'til you find something that fits.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    Sounds a lot like the system used in 6th/7th WFB (particularly the way the requirements scale with points value). I assume the book's got a big list of which units are in which category (for those categories that aren't defined by keywords)?

    Going purely off my intuition from what things used to cost, though, up to 2 big monsters and up to 4 characters in 1k still sounds like herohammer is on the table - you'll just have to take two min-sized core units as a tax.
    There is a downsize of several missions requiring a minimum number of models nearby to hold objectives, making herohammer a little risky. I kind of wish they had made it battline units. Troops in 40k are one of my favorite things.
    Last edited by Coyote81; 2016-07-09 at 09:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote81 View Post
    I kind of wish they had made it battlein units. Troops in 40k are one of my favorite things.
    I don't. That would basically make the Missions unplayable as written.
    A Battleline unit, would have to make it into the enemy's DZ, with more than five models. That's fairly impossible.

    It would mean that taking anything except Battleline units would be a waste of time. Meanwhile, everything in 40K Scores. Troops do it better, of course (usually), and that encourages Troops-on-Troops combat over Objectives if you can't steamroll the unit in one turn...But if you can, you Score. Because everything in 40K Scores, and units that don't Score, are generally never, ever taken, unless you're trying to go for Tablings (e.g; Flyrant).

    Everything Scores. It's a good thing. I promise.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2016-07-09 at 07:54 PM.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Had a look at the generals handbook today.
    Had a look at the skaven portion of the chaos codex.
    Wrote a 1000 point list.
    Sighed and put away any thoughs of playing AoS until they next revise the skaven portion of the chaos 'dex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Had a look at the generals handbook today.
    Had a look at the skaven portion of the chaos codex.
    Wrote a 1000 point list.
    Sighed and put away any thoughs of playing AoS until they next revise the skaven portion of the chaos 'dex.
    I haven't looked at Skaven that much, what's wrong with them?
    I'm guessing they've made the rules for the newer models really good and all the older stuff is middling to bad, which is pretty normal for GW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I haven't looked at Skaven that much, what's wrong with them?
    I'm guessing they've made the rules for the newer models really good and all the older stuff is middling to bad, which is pretty normal for GW.
    Unless you've got stormfiends and hellpits, you might as well not bother (though if you do have stormfiends, they're troops for clan skryre). I have neither of those, nor any desire to collect them. WLC's are junk compared to other cannons, weapons teams will die to the first ranged unit that looks at them while outputting crappy damage for anyone that's not a ratling gun, clanrats are never going to do anything but die in droves since they're not outputting any damage even in big blobs since only the guys in b2b can attack and even 15 attacks at 4+/3+ with no rend is only 5 wounds before armour saves. Stormvermin can do some work, but not at 140 points for 10. The characters are mostly sub-par and are generally going to fold hard to anything that looks at them while being fairly meh at outputting some minor damage in the magic phase and most have underwhelming special abilities if any at all. Thanquol is pretty good for 500 points, but again, I don't own him and am not interested in getting one either.

    Basically, big hoards of skaven aren't really a thing and it's monstrous infantry and big creatures or nothing. Same as 40k. As someone who has ~200 rats, 40 stormies, a warlord, BSB, Seer, couple of warplocks, handful of giant rats, pair of WLC's and a doomwheel, the only things that are remotely useful is the warlord and the giant rats, neither of which gels well with how I'd like to seem my army (cool skryre toys backing up hoards of rats). I liked 8th for the handful of games that I played since what I liked = what was good (or at least not terrible). Now what I like = what is terrible and I'm not going to buy models I don't like to stand a remote chance in a system I'm not enthused about. I won't do it for 40k and I won't do it here.

    Maybe I'm wrong and there's some amazing combo that I missed beyond handing out an attack bonus to units within 8" of a warlord, but compared to most other armies, there's very little synergy between the various units with only a few strong choice holding the faction together. It seems like 6th ed CSM all over again with stormfiends and Abombs propping things up instead of heldrakes and obliterators. Maybe I'll go check some of the usual skaven haunts like the undercity or see if some of my favourite old fantasy batrep chanels have got something interesting over the next few weeks, but after a first pass, I suspect I'm wasting my time unless I buy a new army full of models I don't like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Basically, big hoards of skaven aren't really a thing and it's monstrous infantry and big creatures or nothing.
    So, it's Tyranids. Battleline units (Clanrats) don't really do anything and only exist to fill slots and pad points, while the heavy lifting is done by big stuff. Same as Goblins Grots.

    Maybe I'm wrong and there's some amazing combo that I missed beyond handing out an attack bonus to units within 8" of a warlord
    There are, but not with the models you have.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Thing is, if I wanted to play mainly monstrous infantry, I would have collected ogres all these years. I like my hordes of crapy infantry. Major reason I never considered AoS worth my time.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    So, it's Tyranids. Battleline units (Clanrats) don't really do anything and only exist to fill slots and pad points, while the heavy lifting is done by big stuff. Same as Goblins Grots.

    There are, but not with the models you have.
    That would be a more apt analogy, and is also the reaons I don't play 'Nids, as I'd want one or 2 big monsters, a decent unit of warriors, a venomthrope or 2 and swarms of infantry. But that's not 4 flyrants and a bunch of mawlocs so there's not much point.

    What's the go to combo then Cheese? IIRC, the only thing I remember being decent was the Pestilens guys with some stacking, same as they used to be in 8th. In fact, much of the skaven entries play exactly like they did in 8th without any of the toys (doomrocket/brass orb/howling warpgale/stormbanner/frenzy/plague/dreaded 13th/cracks call/doomblade etc) that let them function.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Thing is, if I wanted to play mainly monstrous infantry, I would have collected ogres all these years. I like my hordes of crapy infantry. Major reason I never considered AoS worth my time.
    If Clan Moulder was your thing then you'd be set. Stormfiends, Rat Ogres, Hellpits (Oh my!) all let you play monstrous infantry/MC's. Pestilens gets their own book (and since they're pseudo Nurgle, some of the best rules of course) while Clan Eshin gets the shaft, same as always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    What's the go to combo then Cheese?
    I couldn't tell you off the top of my head. Like most people, I'm new to AoS.
    But I remember flicking through the Open Copies in store, having a look at Chaos, and the resident Skaven Monster Race Anything-except-Elves-and-Humans player was describing what the good units were.

    I can tell you straight up that the Verminlord made an appearance. From my experience, 'Hero' models evaporate fairly quickly. One of the rules of the game, or, rather, a rule that isn't in the game, is that Heroes/Characters can't or don't join units. Which means they can be singled out via magic or shooting really easily. Nearly all Generals in AoS rather need to be of the 'back-line' variety, and any front-line General needs to either have a poop-ton of Wounds and/or a good save - otherwise they die immediately in the first two turns.

    Skaven have some good back line Generals, and they have Leader Behemoths in the form of Verminlords. Same as in 40K, one Behemoth gets singled out immediately, and you really want two Behemoths if you want one. In a fairly dumb move, Verminlords aren't even unique. That said, Skryre doesn't have Verminlords. So I don't know if that's helpful.
    But a good threat to put on the board is the Warp Lightning Cannon. 6 Wounds and a 5+ Save that is increased to 4+ in the Shooting Phase. Meanwhile for 180 Points, Durandin are pulling in a Cannon that only has 3 Crew with 5+ Saves who die immediately if the opponent is close enough.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    But a good threat to put on the board is the Warp Lightning Cannon. 6 Wounds and a 5+ Save that is increased to 4+ in the Shooting Phase. Meanwhile for 180 Points, Durandin are pulling in a Cannon that only has 3 Crew with 5+ Saves who die immediately if the opponent is close enough.
    When you math it out, the WLC is less damage (~2.6 wounds against ~2.9 wounds on the Dwarf Cannon), but they're mortal wounds. The dwarf crew are 4+ armour when within 1" of their cannon due to being in cover. Then you've got re-rolls to wound if you're shooting at more than 10 models and re-rolls to hit if you've got a engineer next to it which puts it further ahead. A better comparison would have been the flame cannon. Same range as the WLC, doesn't roll to hit like the WLC, does mortal wounds like the WLC and simply deletes anything you point it at with an engineer next to it. I just hope that the flame cannon is at least a bunch more points, but at the end of the day, ~2.6 wounds a turn for 180 points seems pretty bad, doubly so when the range is short and you've got no defense against deep strikers.

    Edit: 200 points? Are you frelling high? That's a complete joke.
    Last edited by Drasius; 2016-07-11 at 05:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    The dwarf crew are 4+ armour when within 1" of their cannon due to being in cover.
    The difference is that the crew have 3 Wounds. It's not enough, unless you're bringing two or something.

    Then you've got re-rolls to wound if you're shooting at more than 10 models
    If you aren't using Cannons to shoot at Behemoths, you're using them wrong.

    and re-rolls to hit if you've got a engineer next to it which puts it further ahead.
    The Engineer costs more points (80) or Cogsmith (100), and the Cannons immediately get shafted when the model with 5+ Armour dies. Which he should. Your opponent is going to focus down that Engineer something fierce, if they know what they're doing.

    A better comparison would have been the flame cannon.
    Flame Cannon is OOP, and in the 'Legacy' rules. It's on its way out.

    Edit: 200 points? Are you frelling high? That's a complete joke.
    Like I said, OOP. I wouldn't be so sure that anyone even has one unless they were already playing Dwarfs from before. I was playing Dwarfs since 5th (?) and I don't even have one.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    The difference is that the crew have 3 Wounds. It's not enough, unless you're bringing two or something.

    The Engineer costs more points (80) or Cogsmith (100), and the Cannons immediately get shafted when the model with 5+ Armour dies. Which he should. Your opponent is going to focus down that Engineer something fierce, if they know what they're doing.

    I wouldn't be so sure that anyone even has one unless they were already playing Dwarfs from before. I was playing Dwarfs since 5th (?) and I don't even have one.
    You have to bring a Leader anyway, so their cost isn't really that important and if he's hanging at the back with the cannons, he's not going to get mulched.

    All 3 people who play dwarves up here have at least 2 of each type of dwarven artillery, minimum. Everyone has multiple flame cannons, so I just assumed that was standard proceedure.

    Regardless, I'm going to maintain that hoarde armies suck until shown otherwise, so I'll try and stop raining on everyone's parade with my complaints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    You have to bring a Leader anyway
    For a General? Sure. But an Engineer shouldn't be your General.
    If you're going to roll Legacy Dwarfs (because you're using Flame Cannons), Thorek Ironbrow (a.k.a. The Anvil of Doom) and Kraggi are going to be your default Leaders. Thorek has 8 Wounds, is a Dwarf Wizard, and throws out Mortal Wounds that hit on a 2+. He doesn't have a Command ability, but the Dwarf ones aren't even good, so it's not like you lose a whole lot.

    If you don't have an Anvil, then I guess Grimm Burloksson is the next best Leader, since he'll give you 30" Thunderers.

    so their cost isn't really that important and if he's hanging at the back with the cannons, he's not going to get mulched.
    Someone hasn't heard of Chameleon Skinks, or Gutter Runners, or Assassins, or any 'Infiltrating' unit with Ranged attacks. Heroes can't join units. Any ranged attacks directed their way, hits them. Even if they're apparently surrounded 3-deep on all sides by other models. Only an Arillery's crew get a Cover bonus from their piece, and Engineer is not crew.

    Currently Dwarf Miners are illegal because they don't have points costs. But, Day 1 Errata is already confirmed on TGH. But, as long as they aren't like, 100 Points for 5, I'll be taking Miners.

    Regardless, I'm going to maintain that hoarde armies suck until shown otherwise, so I'll try and stop raining on everyone's parade with my complaints.
    From what I'm looking at (the App), Clanrats have a 6+ Save and Bravery 4. Garbage. Same as Grots.
    But Ork Boyz aren't good. Termagants aren't good. The 'horde' part of a horde army is rarely what makes it effective. What makes a horde army effective is that main units are cheap as dirt, while the big stuff is generally supposed to be where the power is, and costs a bit extra. Which is fine, because the 'mandatory' units that suck that you have to take, are cheap.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2016-07-11 at 08:31 AM.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    That's not what I mean by a horde army. I remember the times when Skaven and Gobbos could win by pure mass, having more bodies than the enemy could kill. I miss those times. Except I still have them in ninth age.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    That's not what I mean by a horde army. I remember the times when Skaven and Gobbos could win by pure mass, having more bodies than the enemy could kill.
    I think the way to do it in AoS, would be instead of one unit of 40 Clanrats, you'd have four units of 10, and then just more units of 10. Clanrats with their amazing Bravery 4, are going to fold like paper to Battleshock alone, and the way to mitigate that would be to have your casualties spread out into multiple units, where some units might be completely ignored altogether. So long as your horde unit is Battleline or [Blank], you can have as many of them as you want.

    If you have a massive unit of 40, and your opponent focuses them down, and you lose, say, 12 in one turn. Roll a D6, you get 4, which means you then lose another 12 models all off the one unit. It would need playtesting, for certain, but I'm convinced that units over 20 models - regardless of what they are - are not good. That doesn't mean that you couldn't just spam units of 10-20 models, if they're cheap enough. Which Clanrats are.

    MSU is probably how people will end up winning AoS. I'm sure of it.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2016-07-11 at 09:17 AM.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    It seems like they are doubling down on the base ideas for the game with the handbook. It is just unfortunate that the base ideas for AoS are almost completely contradictory to what most people liked about WHFB. If you actually liked WHFB and want a game like that then there is nothing at all to like in AoS. If you wanted a completely different game that just uses the WHFB models, then AoS might be a reasonable game.

    The thing is I've always liked WHFB a lot more than 40k. Much of what I didn't like about 40k has just gotten worse in 40k, and many of those "bad" ideas have been carried over to AoS. Many of what I thought made WHFB a better game than 40k has been taken out completely.

    And at this point I could never see myself going back to GW for anything. Their prices have always been rather insane and while they have stopped getting worse lately, that is hardly a ringing enforcement of their future direction. There are game mechanics in other games I like a lot more, there is better background worlds. The only thing GW games had going for them is a solid player base, but my local TT gaming community has been dead for years now and any game I end up playing with be with just one or two other people, so I may as well play the games that are the most fun (I only ever played 40k because it was that or nothing for ~4 years). And at this point if I move again it will probably be to a big enough urban area that I can find games in any system I want. There isn't even any GW models that I absolutely love any more. So much of what I actually liked hasn't changed in a long time and most everything they've been releasing lately I've found completely unappealing (Sigmarines) or over the top and basically turned up to 11 and missing all the charm and character they used to have.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    It seems like they are doubling down on the base ideas for the game with the handbook. It is just unfortunate that the base ideas for AoS are almost completely contradictory to what most people liked about WHFB. If you actually liked WHFB and want a game like that then there is nothing at all to like in AoS. If you wanted a completely different game that just uses the WHFB models, then AoS might be a reasonable game.

    The thing is I've always liked WHFB a lot more than 40k. Much of what I didn't like about 40k has just gotten worse in 40k, and many of those "bad" ideas have been carried over to AoS. Many of what I thought made WHFB a better game than 40k has been taken out completely.
    Well yeah, they basically went forward and made AoS more like 40k than WHFB. For some people who like the ranks and flanking and stuff, that's the worst thing they could have done, for others, it's great. I honestly don't expect every tabletop player to feel the same about every game, different games appeal to different people, and I totally understand why people are driven away with bad feelings about GW and the game in general. But, I'm happy to see that a lot of WHFB people have found a new home in 9th Age or Kings of War, they sound like great systems if you like that sort of game!




    ION: The guy I sold my Daemons to wants to return them (he hasn't paid yet but he's a good friend so I was ok with him using the models), and I think rather than finding another buyer, I might use them in AoS for a while. I sold them because I really hate Deathstar in 40k and that's basically the only way to play them outside of casual, but I think they might be pretty fun and solid in AoS.

    I do still want to do Order at some point, but this would be a quick way to get started and have fun with models that I really liked before (like my legendary GUO, Brick).

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    For some people who like the ranks and flanking and stuff, that's the worst thing they could have done, for others, it's great.
    At some level though you do have to acknowledge that the first group are pretty much 100% of the people who already owned models for the game - who sank a lot of time, money and energy into building their collections, and who at this point still seem to heavily outnumber the new converts. It's not just a case of "I like A, you like B", it's "you owned A, I like B, A is now B, enjoy your B!". The sense of betrayal is pretty real; 9th Age is a direct product of that feeling, not a value-neutral market competitor. I would say it's a better-written and better-balanced game than WFB 8th edition and I think most people would agree (presentation and production values aside), but you can bet that if the writers had tried doing it before the launch of AoS it would have sunk without a trace.

    Speaking from my personal point of view, I put some significant amount of time into helping and promoting the 9th Age project, because it's the only way to preserve the hobby I enjoy - but it's not like that hobby can just carry on regardless of what GW does. The tournament scene in the UK has halved pretty much purely out of skepticism about the game's future - 9th Age has kept it from collapsing but people are rightly skeptical about whether a volunteer project with limited model support from small companies can survive in the long term. AoS really did take something away from me and the sour grapes aren't going to start tasting better any time soon.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    At some level though you do have to acknowledge that the first group are pretty much 100% of the people who already owned models for the game - who sank a lot of time, money and energy into building their collections, and who at this point still seem to heavily outnumber the new converts. It's not just a case of "I like A, you like B", it's "you owned A, I like B, A is now B, enjoy your B!". The sense of betrayal is pretty real; 9th Age is a direct product of that feeling, not a value-neutral market competitor. I would say it's a better-written and better-balanced game than WFB 8th edition and I think most people would agree (presentation and production values aside), but you can bet that if the writers had tried doing it before the launch of AoS it would have sunk without a trace.

    Speaking from my personal point of view, I put some significant amount of time into helping and promoting the 9th Age project, because it's the only way to preserve the hobby I enjoy - but it's not like that hobby can just carry on regardless of what GW does. The tournament scene in the UK has halved pretty much purely out of skepticism about the game's future - 9th Age has kept it from collapsing but people are rightly skeptical about whether a volunteer project with limited model support from small companies can survive in the long term. AoS really did take something away from me and the sour grapes aren't going to start tasting better any time soon.
    Oh, I totally understand that. The move GW made was a terrible one - screw over a huge playerbase to create a new system that's very different in order to appeal to different players. That's one that nobody should make, especially ones that are worried about their bottom line. I'll always understand WHFB players who hate GW for this, it's totally reasonable and anyone telling them to get over it and move on is really missing the point. Some WHFB players will enjoy the change, many have made the switch. Others won't, and it's in no one's hand to force them to.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    If you have a massive unit of 40, and your opponent focuses them down, and you lose, say, 12 in one turn. Roll a D6, you get 4, which means you then lose another 12 models all off the one unit. It would need playtesting, for certain, but I'm convinced that units over 20 models - regardless of what they are - are not good. That doesn't mean that you couldn't just spam units of 10-20 models, if they're cheap enough. Which Clanrats are.
    Units with more than 10 models get +1 bravery for every 10 additional models IIRC, and Skaven units double this bonus, so a unit of 40 would be bravery 10, a unit of 30 would be bravery 8. But yeah, you'd either need 10 models or 40, but even having 8 units of 10 isn't going to accomlish anything since they'll be annihilated the instant anyone looks at them and they're not going to last for 5/6 turns to cap objectives. If it worked like maelstrom, then yeah, a boatload of small units would do great.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Units with more than 10 models get +1 bravery for every 10 additional models IIRC, and Skaven units double this bonus
    +1 Bravery for every 10, not sure where you got the double bonus if you're Skaven, though. I think you might be referring to a specific unit, and applying to all Skaven units, maybe?
    But I don't know what that unit is, because it isn't Clanrats.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    +1 Bravery for every 10, not sure where you got the double bonus if you're Skaven, though. I think you might be referring to a specific unit, and applying to all Skaven units, maybe?
    But I don't know what that unit is, because it isn't Clanrats.
    It's from a formation bonus. I was clearly misremembering and thought that basic units might have a use. My mistake.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    So I think the plan is to use my Daemons to start, decide if I want to keep them or start Order after a while. Chaos also has some expansion options that interest me, like Skaven shooting to support or Slaves to Darkness for the amazing Chaos Knights and characters they offer.

    The nice thing about this situation is that it lets me get started quickly at any point size, though I'm not sure about my effectiveness. How does this look for 1000 points:

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    Not very strong in melee, but pretty solid casting and shooting. Seekers are amazing in melee, so I can use them as a flanking/hunting unit for the things I need dead.

    Alternatively, Nurgle focused:

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    Burning Chariot is just too good to pass up even in a theme list. Seriously, just look at the profile. Nurgle is a bit better in melee, but mostly is just stupid hard to kill. Points left gives me room for either a Daemon Prince, 3 Spawn (either individual or separate units), the 10 Seekers, or a unit of Horrors. Heck, with the way Summoning works in Pitched Battles, I could even just leave it open for such an occasion.

    What do you think, how would these lists hold up as starting points? Our group is probably going to start at 1000 points as people build up their armies, so I expect to be at this level for a while.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Just got rocked by Destruction (Urruks). First game I won on Victory Points, second game I was tabled on Turn 3.
    Their Faction Trait, is anything within X" (I forget) of a Destruction Hero, can move D6" in the Hero Phase, this does not affect any of their other actions that turn.

    This means that Destruction Wizards are Eldar.
    - Stand behind LoS blocking terrain.
    - In Hero Phase, move D6" inches.
    - In Hero Phase, cast Magic spells (Urruks prefer Foot of Gork, and it is amazing)
    - In Movement Phase, move back behind the LoS Blocker.

    Also, Missions (that I remember)
    1. 2 Objectives on the board. If, at any time, you control both of them (with 5 or more models), you win. End the game. If nobody has won by Turn 5, go to Victory Points.
    2. 4 Objectives on the board. Starting from Turn 3, if you control all of them (with the most models), you win. End the game. If nobody has won by Turn 5, whoever has the most Objectives wins. If neither player wins, go to Victory Points.
    ???
    4. 4 Objectives. At the end of the game (Turn 5), the Objective in your opponent's DZ is worth 4 Points, the Objective in your DZ is worth 1 Point, and the two Objectives in the middle are worth two Points each. You control an Objective by having the most models in range - 6".
    5. 3 Objectives. Only Heroes can Score. You earn points cumulatively for each turn that your Hero ends your turn on an Objective.
    e.g; 1 Turn = 1 Points, 2 Turns = 1+2 Points, 3 Turns = 1+2+3 Points, etc. Noting that the instant your Hero leaves the Objective, you start again, even if the same Hero can somehow leave the Objective and manage to make it back on in the same turn (e.g; Destruction Battle Trait)
    ???

    I think. I maybe have the Mission numbers wrong, but those are what I remember.
    Victory Points are the amount of points your opponent's dead models are worth. 'Making Points Back' is still a thing in AoS.

    The game is very, very Objective focused. Basically, some Missions read "If you can Score Domination, win the game." which is basically how 40K may as well be. If I'm Scoring Domination, my opponent has done something catastrophically wrong, and the game may as well be over. For better or worse.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    What army were you running? I do hear very strong things about Orruks, but I think it'll be a while before we start to get a good idea of what armies are great and which are weak. Across different sites, I've heard that all of the following were OP: Orruks, Seraphon, Stormcast Eternals, Tzeentch Daemons focusing on casting and shooting, Ogres, Death mix with mass buffs and Heroes, Brettonians, High Elves (especially legacy units), Dwarven Artillery, Skaven with as much Ranged damage as possible, and the new Sylvaneth. Which is like half the armies in the game.

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