The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Cheesegear's Avatar

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    What army were you running?
    Dwarfs. With a Celestial Hurricanum.

    but I think it'll be a while before we start to get a good idea of what armies are great and which are weak.
    The book has been in Open Copy for almost two weeks. That's how long it took. Unless the Day 1 Errata changes things, I already know how the meta is going to play out.
    Looking at the Missions, you can clearly see that the game is fairly Objective based, with auto-win conditions for most of them. You need to be fast, to get to those Objectives early, and you need a lot of models, in order to hold Objectives. Some you need five models on the Objective, some Missions, the Objective is controlled by whomever has the most models within 6". Your opponent can be sitting pretty on the Objective with six models, but if you rock up with 7, you get it.

    Speed. Destruction has this is in spades. Pretty much every model they own gets an extra D6" movement for free. Speed is great for Objective-grabbing, but it's also really good for getting units into combat as early as possible, and, in Destruction, a lot of their units (e.g; Ogors, Urruks) are built for Melee. What is literally ruining my games right now, is that Dwarf Miners don't have a points cost. The global campaign has just started, and without Miners, Dwarfs are slow as balls. It's crippling me. Imagine if my units had the same armour saves, but better movement? Wouldn't that be great? ...Oh, hi Seraphon.

    Since I can't move a whole lot, it falls down to Artillery (and the Anvil) to get it done. I'm not even trying to play the Mission, and I'm instead going for Victory Points. It sucks, but until Miners get legal, I have no other choice.
    One of my friends suggested Gyrocopters, but then I pointed out that they're units of of one model, and that was that... That said, I have just bought myself a Steam Tank.


    I think what's really going to be interesting that nobody should be playing a single race. They should be playing their Faction. That is, I shouldn't say that I play 'Dwarfs', I should say that I play 'Order', and buy myself a Celestial Hurricanum (did it), Steam Tank (did it) and probably a Mage-on-Griffon, and have my Battleline units be Longbeards or something. 'Playing Dwarfs and Dwarfs only' is not how the meta is going to go.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2016-07-15 at 06:20 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I think what's really going to be interesting that nobody should be playing a single race. They should be playing their Faction. That is, I shouldn't say that I play 'Dwarfs', I should say that I play 'Order', and buy myself a Celestial Hurricanum (did it), Steam Tank (did it) and probably a Mage-on-Griffon, and have my Battleline units be Longbeards or something. 'Playing Dwarfs and Dwarfs only' is not how the meta is going to go.
    "I should cherry pick the best units out of the other battle brother codecies". Ah, the 40kification (fortification? No, wait, that's already a word!) of AoS, oh the irony is strong. Now you too can enjoy a horrible mis-mash of random stuff that doesn't belong within earshot of the other random stuff that makes up an army. Welcome to 6th ed 40k AoS 2.0

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Funny, I've heard gunlines are the things dominating a lot of places right now, just killing everything off before scoring becomes an issue. I honestly think the "global meta" or whatever will still take a bit of time to cool down.

    Didn't get a game in today but going to an actual GW tomorrow to see if anyone is playing there. The one near me has actually posted results, so I assume people there are getting games in. I guess I could just hang around for a while and see.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Funny, I've heard gunlines are the things dominating a lot of places right now, just killing everything off before scoring becomes an issue. I honestly think the "global meta" or whatever will still take a bit of time to cool down.

    Didn't get a game in today but going to an actual GW tomorrow to see if anyone is playing there. The one near me has actually posted results, so I assume people there are getting games in. I guess I could just hang around for a while and see.
    Our store is right into it as expected. I'm going to try and paint enough units to win without playing a single game. Thankfully, I bought enough skaven for a 2500 army at the tail end of 8th and only have ~40 clannies painted, so I'm good to go without actually buying anything. Already got 2 units of giant rats done, 2 units of clannies 70% done, a pair of weappons teams 50% done and a BSB ~30% done in a day. I think I've got this. Apparently 1 win = 1 point, every 5 wins gets you 5 bonus points. Same deal with painting, 1 warscroll = 1 point, paint 5 warscrolls, get 5 bonus points and GW stores have prizes for most points for every store.

    If I knock out 2 units of giant rats, 4 units of Clanrats, 4 units of stormvermin, 3 weapons teams, a BSB, a pair of warlords, a trio of warplocks and a grey seer, that's 20 warscrolls, so 40 points. 20 AoS wins might be a tough ask, but so is ~100 models. I think I can do it though. Funny, I'm usually a rediculously slow painter, but I'm getting through these skaven and a decent clip and really enjoying it too (so far...). Definately a nice change.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Played my first game last night! Would have preferred a 1v1 for my first one, but the GW near me is really small and the one table that was open had 6 people wanting to play, so 3v3 it was. Skaven/Skaven/Daemons(me) vs Dark Elves/Sylvaneth/Death. We played a mission where the objectives are meteors that fall on each players' turn 2 and are progressive. Both ended up falling on one side of the table, and the mobility of my Flamers and Burning Chariot helped thin out their troops on that side. The GUO ended up sloughing through lots of things - Black Knights, Skeletons, casting Mortal Wounds onto the Treelord and Spirit of Durthu, and then eventually charging the lone Sorceress in the backline to claim their objective. Dude was a boss, and they didn't even attack him because 10W/4+(3+ with Mystic Shield)/5++ with self healing is really annoying to even think about hurting. The blackshirt counted it as 3 wins for Chaos, since if the other side won, he would have had to do 2 Order/1 Death victory. Tying our store between Chaos and Order!

    I really enjoyed it! The game just runs really smoothly. Got me thinking about the next thing I'd like to add to my army. I don't think I want to add too many Skaven to my forces (I don't like painting horde units), but I think I may pick up a Plagueclaw or two, those things did work against big units. And, since it's Nurgle, it combos with Epidemius, one of the best darn force multipliers in the game. Alternatively, I think I'd like to pick up a big "centerpiece" unit. The GUO does it alright, and I also have 2 Princes, Be'lakor, and Fateweaver, but nothing big and nasty like the Dreadlord on Dragon we faced or the Treelord/Durthu they had either. Maybe a Mutalith Vortex Beast, one of the Maggoths, or a Manticore Chaos Lord.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    The game just runs really smoothly.
    It's always run smoothly. It's always been a good game (albeit simplistic). The problem has been that there were no checks and balances. If I wanted to take five Cannons, I could take five Cannons. If someone brought out Nagash and wanted to Summon eleventy billion Skeletons, they could. Now they can't, and the game is worth playing. Because it's now fair. Or, at least, more fair than it was.

    Now that slots and points are involved, people can - and will (I know I have) - start talking about efficiency-for-points, meta-gaming, and 'best-in-slot'. Hence why I said 'more fair'. The game is far from perfect, but with the proper checks and balances, we now know what is 'best', or, at the very least, we know what's bad.

    Alternatively, I think I'd like to pick up a big "centerpiece" unit. The GUO does it alright...
    Is your GUO the Glottkin model? I like that one a lot.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Is your GUO the Glottkin model? I like that one a lot.
    No, I've got an old school metal GUO. I love it, but it's a bit on the small side, especially when others use the big ol' FW one. I do like the Glottkin though, and his rules are actually pretty solid. He's a bit point-heavy for middling point games, but cheaper than the Archaon/Everqueen/Nagash level.

    Hoping to get another game in tomorrow after work, we'll how the schedule goes. Different store, hoping to get some points on the board for Chaos.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Got rolled again, by another extremely fast army.

    Slaves to Darkness
    (G) Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount - 140 Points

    Marauders (x10); Axes, Shields, Tribal Banner - 60 Points
    Chaos Knights (x5); Ensorcelled Weapons - 200 Points
    Chaos Knights (x5); Chaos Glaives - 200 Points
    Chaos Knights (x5); Chaos Glaives - 200 Points

    Marauder Horsemen (x5); Javelins, Tribal Banner - 100 Points
    Marauder Horsemen (x5); Javelins, Tribal Banner - 100 Points

    Total: 1000 Points

    His Lord chose Tzeentch during Deployment, to give himself re-rolls to Saves.
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Got rolled again, by another extremely fast army.

    Slaves to Darkness
    (G) Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount - 140 Points

    Marauders (x10); Axes, Shields, Tribal Banner - 60 Points
    Chaos Knights (x5); Ensorcelled Weapons - 200 Points
    Chaos Knights (x5); Chaos Glaives - 200 Points
    Chaos Knights (x5); Chaos Glaives - 200 Points

    Marauder Horsemen (x5); Javelins, Tribal Banner - 100 Points
    Marauder Horsemen (x5); Javelins, Tribal Banner - 100 Points

    Total: 1000 Points

    His Lord chose Tzeentch during Deployment, to give himself re-rolls to Saves.
    That's the sort of Mortal Chaos army I'd like to collect lol. I love cavalry, and the Chaos Knights models are fantastic. And the Mount Lord is a great option, relatively cheap compared to Behemoth leaders but still tough as nails and killy as anything.

    How did the Javelin Marauder Horsemen work out? They seem like a really solid harassment unit, but squishy and poor Bravery.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    More lessons learned;

    Multiple more-than-minimum-sized units, aren't really worth it, unless you're going for specific bonuses, or plan on bonus-stacking.

    For example, if you have a unit that gains a bonus when it reaches 20+ models, yeah, it's worth reaching that 20+ model unit size. If you need +1 Bravery (or +2 if you're Skaven in what is basically a mandatory Formation) for every ten models, then yes, it's worth having a higher model count. If you plan to stack bonuses (re-rolls to Wound, +1 Save, extra attack, etc.), then, having the most number of models affected is arguably a better use of the buff.

    However, if you don't gain a discernible bonus by having more than the minimum unit size, or you don't feel like 'bonus stacking' is worth it because Mortal Wounds don't allow saves, and as good as your Death Star is, they can just die as easily as anything else, then yes; It actually is better going MSU.

    This is most obviously seen on unit Champions, Banners and Musicians. In quite a number of cases, these things actually provide huge buffs to the unit (especially Banners). If you buy the minimum 10 models for your unit, you get a Champion, Banner and Musician for free. Job's good. However, if you buy another ten models for the unit - and you don't need +1 Bravery, and you don't get a bonus for having 20+ models, etc. - you're still paying the original price, but you aren't getting those free Champions, Musicians and Banners again, are you? But you're still paying the same price. Even if your Champion's only ability is to have +1 Attack, that's still one attack you lose on what could have been a second unit that costs exactly the same amount of points.

    For a good example of what I'm talking about; Blood Knights. In each Hero Phase, the unit brings back one model up to however many it started the game with. Yes, these can be Champions and Musicians - the Standard Bearer always dies last in a unit of Blood Knights. If you have one unit of 10 Blood Knights, and your opponent kills two of them, you get one model back, per the rules, obviously. If you have two units of 5, you now have two Banners, which means you now get potentially two models back per turn, instead of just one. Same number of models, same points cost. But better on the table.
    Noting that Undead are Bravery 10. To get them to take a Battleshock Test at all, you'd need to remove 5 models, if you remove five models from a five-model unit, they're not taking a Battleshock Test.
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    More lessons learned;

    Multiple more-than-minimum-sized units, aren't really worth it, unless you're going for specific bonuses, or plan on bonus-stacking.

    For example, if you have a unit that gains a bonus when it reaches 20+ models, yeah, it's worth reaching that 20+ model unit size. If you need +1 Bravery (or +2 if you're Skaven in what is basically a mandatory Formation) for every ten models, then yes, it's worth having a higher model count. If you plan to stack bonuses (re-rolls to Wound, +1 Save, extra attack, etc.), then, having the most number of models affected is arguably a better use of the buff.

    However, if you don't gain a discernible bonus by having more than the minimum unit size, or you don't feel like 'bonus stacking' is worth it because Mortal Wounds don't allow saves, and as good as your Death Star is, they can just die as easily as anything else, then yes; It actually is better going MSU.

    This is most obviously seen on unit Champions, Banners and Musicians. In quite a number of cases, these things actually provide huge buffs to the unit (especially Banners). If you buy the minimum 10 models for your unit, you get a Champion, Banner and Musician for free. Job's good. However, if you buy another ten models for the unit - and you don't need +1 Bravery, and you don't get a bonus for having 20+ models, etc. - you're still paying the original price, but you aren't getting those free Champions, Musicians and Banners again, are you? But you're still paying the same price. Even if your Champion's only ability is to have +1 Attack, that's still one attack you lose on what could have been a second unit that costs exactly the same amount of points.

    For a good example of what I'm talking about; Blood Knights. In each Hero Phase, the unit brings back one model up to however many it started the game with. Yes, these can be Champions and Musicians - the Standard Bearer always dies last in a unit of Blood Knights. If you have one unit of 10 Blood Knights, and your opponent kills two of them, you get one model back, per the rules, obviously. If you have two units of 5, you now have two Banners, which means you now get potentially two models back per turn, instead of just one. Same number of models, same points cost. But better on the table.
    Noting that Undead are Bravery 10. To get them to take a Battleshock Test at all, you'd need to remove 5 models, if you remove five models from a five-model unit, they're not taking a Battleshock Test.
    Our store had a notable game today. Pair of Sigmarine heros and a unit of 8 Dracothian guard vs Manfred, 5 blood knights, 5 black knights and 6 spirit hosts and a Varghulf? Vargeist? The big one, not the unit(IIRC). The Dracothian guard got tabled in exchange for the spirit hosts. The Blood Knight player was outraged that the DG guys healed a wound on saves of 6, meanwhile, he's healing guys every turn and putting blood knights back on the table every turn for free. Lulzy.

    Current reigning champ is an Empire army that'd make Nuln proud. Helblaster, Rocket Battery, 30ish riflemen, 3 snipers, a steam tank and a master engineer and a griff hound in 1k. Has easily tabled virtually everyone he's faced. It's basically a tau gunline, interceptor and everything, that can shoot into and out of combat, in AoS.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    First things first: FW points for Matched Play. As expected from FW, lots of things that are really powerful but also really heavy on points. Mourngul costs more than more than a Celestant-Prime, only 100 points shy of a Stardrake. If I stick with Chaos, may be picking up a nice big nasty thing from FW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    This is most obviously seen on unit Champions, Banners and Musicians. In quite a number of cases, these things actually provide huge buffs to the unit (especially Banners). If you buy the minimum 10 models for your unit, you get a Champion, Banner and Musician for free. Job's good. However, if you buy another ten models for the unit - and you don't need +1 Bravery, and you don't get a bonus for having 20+ models, etc. - you're still paying the original price, but you aren't getting those free Champions, Musicians and Banners again, are you? But you're still paying the same price. Even if your Champion's only ability is to have +1 Attack, that's still one attack you lose on what could have been a second unit that costs exactly the same amount of points.
    Agreed, spreading out bonuses is super good. There are some horde units (Skellies, Zombies, Grots) that stack up bonuses quick, but I feel like most infantry don't care too much.

    Here's something interesting/stupid: You can technically make every dude in a unit a Banner Bearer/Musician. GW specifically said they don't lose the weapon they're holding, so you can end up with a bunch of people who buff the unit. Buffs don't stack, but it basically makes it impossible to lose the bonus (unlike me, who charged Seekers through Deadly Terrain and lost the Icon. Yeah.)
    Noting that Undead are Bravery 10. To get them to take a Battleshock Test at all, you'd need to remove 5 models, if you remove five models from a five-model unit, they're not taking a Battleshock Test.
    Daemons are the same, but you end up liking to take the Battleshock test anyway because on a 1 you get dudes back. Reality Blinking = opponents cringing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Current reigning champ is an Empire army that'd make Nuln proud. Helblaster, Rocket Battery, 30ish riflemen, 3 snipers, a steam tank and a master engineer and a griff hound in 1k. Has easily tabled virtually everyone he's faced. It's basically a tau gunline, interceptor and everything, that can shoot into and out of combat, in AoS.
    Empire/Freeguilds sounds like one of the strongest armies at the moment. Handgunners are an insanely good Battleline unit - relatively cheap, can shoot and fight and then shoot in combat next turn, easy to buff their Bravery with any nearby Heroes. One of the store people will be playing them next week and I'm pretty terrified for it.


    Speaking of which, I played my first real game last night! Was a good time. Chaos (Daemons) vs Destruction (Orruks, Grots, Ogres, Gargant). We waived the Battleline restriction for him because he didn't know about army construction and Allegiances before he got there and didn't have enough Ironjawz to make 2000 points of them.

    Spoiler: My Army
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    Great Unclean One
    Be'lakor
    Herald of Tzeench, Disc
    Plaguebearers
    Pink Horrors
    Pink Horrors
    Plague Drones
    Seekers of Slaanesh
    Seekers of Slaanesh
    Flamers
    Flamers
    Burning Chariot


    Spoiler: Destruction
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    Orruk Megaboss
    Warchanter
    Ardboys (two weapons each)
    Ardboys (Great weapons)
    Brutes
    Gore-Gruntas
    Ironguts
    Leadbelchers
    Grot Warboss
    Grot Fanatics
    Grots x40
    Grot Shaman
    Aleguzzler Gargant


    Spoiler: Setup
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    The guy with the General's Handbook couldn't make it in (he's a store owner but was out for some reason), so we didn't have any of the missions or anything. We got points off of *ahem* some pictures we found, and then just played the mission off of the 4-page rules, that is, kill points. We also didn't have the pages for Artifacts/Allegiance bonuses, so we skipped on those.

    I won the roll for table, so I just picked a standard "Dawn of War" style deployment. We started deploying and I finished first by virtue of less units, choosing to take the first turn.


    Spoiler: Round 1
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    I moved up centrally for the most part. Plague Drones, Plaguebearers, and GUO screened the Tzeentch stuff. I kept one unit of Seekers out of charge range (so I thought) and the other moved up quickly to charge a unit of Brutes in the back. I love their speed! I cast Shield onto Be'lakor, and everything else was out of range. I got a couple shots off on the Gargant with Flamers/Chariot, but not much stuck. I tried to charge the Brutes, but the Grot Fanatics popped out of the Grot blob and charged first! Unfortunately for me, this means I couldn't get my charge off, but unfortunately for him, the Seekers tore through the Fanatics without a second thought.

    He's Destruction, so he just moved/ran everything up. Shaman popped Shield onto the Gargant. Leadbelchers ended up out of range, so not much happened with them. He charged the Seekers with the Brutes, and without the first swing I was in real trouble, but luckily he only removed 2 Seekers and I did a Wound back. Reality did not blink, but I held them up from my more important shooting Tzeentch stuff.


    Spoiler: Round 2
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    We roll. He gets to go first. I realize my measurements were in vain. Uh oh!

    He shields the Gargant again, and then everything runs up a bit. Leadbelchers did all of 1 wound to a Plaguebearer in shooting, and that was it for that phase. The Gargant charged the Drones, Ironguts charged the other Seekers, Gore-Gruntas charged Be'lakor, Grots charged Plaguebearers. Ardboyz try to charge the GUO and fail. Now we're in it! The Brutes from the last time cut down another Seeker and a half. The Gargant kills one Plague Drone, but these guys have 5 attacks each! They do some wounds back, dropping his combat effectiveness next time around. Be'lakor takes a wound but deals back 6 in return! Killing one off and damaging another. Plaguebearers and Grots go about as well as you'd expect - I have less but more durable, he has more but they die like flies. Ironguts kill a Seeker and they kill a dude back in return in a stunning display of not-terrible rolling.

    I feel pretty weak after two turns in a row, but he hasn't killed off anything completely yet, so it isn't all bad. I buff up Be'lakor with Shield, pop some Mortal wounds into the Gargant with Bolt, and then move up to do some damage. Burning Chariot kills off the Grot Shaman, stopping the Shield train. First unit of Flamers do some wounds to the Brutes held up by the Seekers, since I'm scared of them coming out. The other ones and a unit of Pink Horrors kill off another Gore Grunta and wound the last one. HoTzeentch misses everything. GUO shoots at the Gargant, taking off another wound with vomit. He then charges the Ardboyz with Greatweapons, while the Pink Horrors charge the remaining Gore-Grunta, preventing him from piling into Be'lakor. He and the Seekers make short work of the Ironguts, while the Gargant kills another Plague Drone, taking a wound in return. Brick, the GUO boss, kills 3 Ardboyz and only takes 2 wounds in return. Brutes finally finish off the Seekers, while the Gore-Grunta kills off a couple Horrors. Plaguebearers and Grots sorta... continue. I do get 2 back as Reality Blinks, though.


    Spoiler: Round 3
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    We roll. I go first! The Double Turn is a double agent!

    I shield the GUO this time, dunno why instead of Be'lakor who really can make more use out of it (he ignores Rends). GUO heals back to full anyway, because reasons. I pop a couple Mortal Wounds into the now-free Brutes who scare me more than they probably should, taking them down to 2 models left. In movement, I fly the Chariot over the Gargant, hoping to get some more MWs on but failing. Flamers jump around, getting into better spots, while Pink Horrors screen them. Seekers Run to get in a better position... and the Icon Bearer dies in Terrain. Poop. I pop a lot of shots into the final Brutes, killing one off and leaving the final one on a single wound. Chariot tries to kill the Megaboss with flames but does nothing as his armor saves it. Other Flamers bring the Gargant down a bit lower. I charge the Gargant with the Chariot, Be'lakor charges the Warboss, and the Seekers charge the Ardboyz with two weapons. I swing Be'lakor first, doing 2 wounds but not much else as the dice go cold on me. He swings the Gargant into the Chariot, hoping for an instagib, but with the weaker profiles and bad dice, nothing happens. The chariot latches on with the Screamers, which do d3 Wounds each and drop it. His Warboss, in another stunning display of dice, murders Be'lakor with a laugh. Should have Shielded him! Gore-Grunta is still tied down with Horrors, Grots and Plaguebearers do nothing but Reality Blinks again, giving me one back. The Seekers trade... unfavorably, but survive.

    While killing Be'lakor is big, things are looking pretty grim for him. I'm ahead in kill points (4 at this point) and he only has 2, with low prospects of racking them up. His Warboss moves in to charge the GUO, and his Leadbelcher stays stationary to get the extra shots. The remaining Brute goes for the hail mary charge on some Flamers. Leadbelcher shooting only does 2 shots, sadly, and no wounds. Brute makes it in, though, and kills 2 Flamers. Warboss charges the GUO, but I activate him first and kill the Boss before he does anything, because these guys are actually just awesome in combat. His Chanter charges the Chariot, doing only 1 wound and taking 3 in return. He does kill off the Seekers, though.


    Spoiler: Round 4
    Show
    I go first for this round. Considering everything except his hiding Grot Warboss and a unit of Ardboyz is in combat, though, I doubt it would have changed much.

    GUO heals to full and Shields himself. Herald casts his unique spell, which does no wounds because it's really inconsistent. Flamers and Chariot kill off the Brute and the Chanter, bringing me to 6 KPs. In combat, GUO takes 1 wound and deals 7 to the Ardboyz in return. Reality Blinks on the Plaguebearers and Pink Horrors as well, which was good or bad depending on what side you were on.

    We decide to call it as the store is closing. He rolls what we consider the "important rolls", i.e., could he kill off the one Flamer, the Chariot, and the Plaguebearers to tie the game up, and as it turns out, no, the dice said no.


    Spoiler: Round 5
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    Not Played


    Spoiler: Results and Learning
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    6-3 Kill Points. Minor Victory to Chaos this day! We both agree that we each made mistakes, but for our first real AoS game it went well. Fun times were had by all!

    -Ironjawz are brutal as all get out in Assault, the only thing that could stand up to them was the GUO.
    -I was also way more scared of the Gargant than I should have been, it was definitely scary but a mediocre save means it fell at a reasonable rate.
    -He realized too late that he should have clumped up the Ironjawz in a deathball to take advantage of the Megaboss's buffs. It would have been a much different game if he had.
    -Always Shield Be'lakor. 3+ ignoring Rends is too good, too good.


    Looking forward to the next one! There's Open Play at a nearby store on Sunday so I'll probably swing by to mark that one for Chaos as well.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    General's Handbook gets a FAQ before it comes out. Must be a record or something

    Cheese, Miners are 120 for 10 (does the Mining Cart count as one of the models? I would have to assume so). Seems pretty good for your "Deep Strike" unit that 100% requires response.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Cheese, Miners are 120 for 10
    Amazing. I priced them at 140, so, I'm really happy.

    (does the Mining Cart count as one of the models? I would have to assume so)
    Nope. Because the Mining Cart is optional.

    Seems pretty good for your "Deep Strike" unit that 100% requires response.
    Not exactly. They have to set up 9" away, and their Shooting attack only has a 6" range, and the 16" Harpoon can't be used if they Moved that turn. It's still better than nothing, since Dwarfs only have a 4" Move, which sucks.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    So if I were going to, say, build a Sylvaneth/Order based army, what would be a good place to start? I haven't been following AoS at all until, well, right about now when I got curious and pretty much fell in love with the Sylvaneth models I blame you, Rezquizen.

    I mean, I know the bare bones of the game, but at a GW price point I'd rather not be buying totally blind.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Not exactly. They have to set up 9" away, and their Shooting attack only has a 6" range, and the 16" Harpoon can't be used if they Moved that turn. It's still better than nothing, since Dwarfs only have a 4" Move, which sucks.
    Yeah, mobility is mobility, for a slow army they're basically invaluable. And at a very reasonable point price!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cristo Meyers View Post
    So if I were going to, say, build a Sylvaneth/Order based army, what would be a good place to start? I haven't been following AoS at all until, well, right about now when I got curious and pretty much fell in love with the Sylvaneth models I blame you, Rezquizen.

    I mean, I know the bare bones of the game, but at a GW price point I'd rather not be buying totally blind.
    I blame me too. A lot of the Thursday night crowd are going to play at least a little bit, at least during the global event.

    Sylvaneth actually are getting easier to start up if you wait a couple weeks, there will be a Start Collecting! box for them, that looks like so. It comes out to 520/620 depending on what you build the big dude as, but only 1 Battleline (Troops) unit, so you'd end up buying one more unit of Dryads or Tree-Revnants. If you can find a Free Spirit Warhost around, it's also a good deal if you want those models.

    Edit:

    Also, points for Silver Tower models if you have them. I was thinking of picking up the game anyway, who knows now.
    Last edited by Requizen; 2016-07-22 at 10:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    My cunning plan was revealed today to my store, as I put in 11 points for Chaos, catapulting Chaos from 0 points to winning by 2 (and myself into the lead by1). Fairly happy with how my weapons teams have come out so far, despite the fact that apparently I can't take a decent photo.

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    I can maybe get another 12-15 points done, and that might be enough to secure the win, but it's going to be close. Got 16x 40k models to paint for oath of moment this month too, but they're almost done, so now it's just concentrating on cranking out more rats.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Guide to the Order Grand Alliance
    Part 1; Traits & Stormcast Eternals

    Disclaimer; These Guides will not feature any references to Compendium/Legacy units. You can't buy them anymore, so it would be disingenuous to recommend them in any capacity. If you've already got some, then you probably already know how good they are.

    Spoiler: Allegiance Abilities
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    Battle Trait: All of your models within 12" of any General or Hero can re-roll Battleshock Tests. While this Trait appears exceptionally good, because Battleshock removes models, regardless of number of Wounds and with no save. If you know what's good for you, you should already be building around not taking Battleshock as few times as possible. You should already be doing this, not to mention the default Command Ability, Inspiring Presence. On paper, this looks like one of the better Battle Traits. In practice, it isn't, because you're Order, and you should already be mitigating Battleshock as much as possible.
    As more and more post-TGH Battletomes get released with their own Battle Traits, this Trait will quickly fall by the wayside. Unless you're not actually interested in playing one Faction and one Faction only; Because Grand Alliance. It's in the name.

    Command Traits
    1. Use two Command Abilities in the same turn. Or Inspiring Presence, twice - see what I mean about the Battle Trait?
    2. Re-roll Battleshock within 24" of your General. Or you can simply take more than one Hero and use your Battle Trait like you're supposed to.
    3. Units within 10" of your General can re-roll Run and Charge moves. That's more like it.
    4. +1 Wound. *vomit*
    5. Your General gets +1 Attack with any weapon of his choosing in the combat phase. Better than Battleshock which you do anyway.
    6. 6++.

    Overall, not a good Table. But, if you're using the Grand Alliance and not a single Battletome, you're already cheesing the poop out of the game anyway. It's not like you'll need an extra Trait to make your army more broken.

    Artifacts of Order
    Note; Never random roll your Artifacts if you have a choice.
    Quicksilver Potion; Once per game, your Hero activates in the combat phase, first. Even if it's not even your turn. This is very good for getting the most out of your Hero with only one Wound left.
    Obstinate Blade; Increase the Rend on one of your weapons by 1. Not bad.
    Relic Blade; Increase the Damage on your Melee weapon by 1. This is much better.
    Hoarfrost; Any model wounded by this weapon gets -1 To Hit for the rest of the game. Neat.
    Talisman of Blinding Light; Once per game, in your combat phase, enemies are -1 To Hit against your Hero.
    Phoenix Stone; Regenerate a Wound per turn.

    Some good ones, some bad ones. All of them have their effectiveness altered by what Hero that they're on, and who they're against. You get one Artifact, and may take an additional Artifact for each Warscroll Battalion in your army. So, if you can find a nice Battalion that you want, you get a second Artifact for free. Nice.


    Stormcast Eternals

    Spoiler
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    Leaders
    Celestant-Prime: 8 Wounds, 3+ Save. Throws out Mortal Wounds like a boss. He isn't set up at Deployment. Instead, he can be held in Reserve, and for each turn he is held in Reserve, he gains +2 Attacks in Melee. Then he does a Superhero Entrance, at least 9" away from enemy models, and all enemy models within 12" of the Prime have -2 Bravery. In fairness, he's a beast in combat doing -3 Rend and 3 Damage per hit. Unfortunately, he's 360 Points and doesn't come with a Command Ability (aside from Inspiring Presence). So, while he's nice to have in larger games, he shouldn't be your first choice. You can if you want, there's nothing wrong with The Hammer of Sigmar, it's just that there's a better choice or two for Generals for the Stormcasts.

    Lord-Celestant on Dracoth: 7 Wounds, 3+ Save. Only slightly worse than the Prime for over 100 Points less. He's not quite as strong as the Prime in Melee (depending on how long you kept the Prime in Reserve), but he's still pretty strong. His Tempestos Hammer is the best weapon, but, if you're going heavy on Stormcast Eternal units, he gets +1 Attack with the Thunderaxe for every SE unit around him, which makes it solid. The Lord-Celestant has Inspiring Presence up to 11. No SE units within 24" take Battleshock at all. This will be pretty important, later on. Basically, this guy should probably be your first choice for General. You can work your way up to a Stardrake later on.

    Lord-Celestant: The one on foot is a lot less good than the one on Dracoth. He only has 5 Wounds, and still throws out Mortal Wounds per turn, just not as many, and a lot more randomly. His Command Ability is that SE models within 9" get +1 To Hit. Not a strong choice.

    Lord-Castellant: Has an extra Wound over the Celestant and his main weapon is slightly better (the Lord-Celestant has two weapons). He has a hate-on for Chaos and even more for Chaos Daemons, able to throw out Mortal Wounds without even rolling against those units. If you're not up against Chaos, he starts buffing SE units. You get +1 to your save rolls, and, if you roll a '7' for your Save, you heal a Wound from a model. It's not as strong as it sounds.

    Lord-Relictor: Not great. Throws out Mortal Wounds or heals a unit. Otherwise he's about as good as the Celestant. No Command Ability, but he gets not!Magic (i.e; His 'spells' can't be Unbound), and he even costs less than the Celestant.

    Knight-Azyros: SE units that Lightning Strike (see later) can set up anywhere within 5" of an Azyros, even if that would put them within 9" of an enemy unit. Once per game, he can put D3 Mortal Wounds on a unit, or D6 if they're Chaos.
    Alliance-Wide Buff: All Shooting attacks against enemy models within 10" of an Azyros have +1 To Hit.

    Knight-Venator: 'The Shooty One'. The Venator's Bow is fairly solid, and the Star-Eagle on is pretty deadly. Once per game, you can make one attack, that does 3 Damage, or D3+3 against a Hero or Monster. Sure, you hit on a 2+, but you can still roll a '1', or fail To Wound. For 120 Points? It's asking a lot. If you want the Venator to be any good, you're going to have to pair him with another model or unit, and that's more points.

    Knight-Vexillor: SE's within 12" can re-roll Charge. Once per game, deal Mortal Wounds. But, the real bonus is his Teleport. Pick an SE unit, anywhere on the board, remove it, and then set it up anywhere else you want, only 3" away from enemy models. This is an extraordinarily strong ability, even if you can only do it once. The problem with the Vexillor is that he's 200 Points, while a Lord-Celestant on Dracoth in only 20 Points more. So yeah. This model is stupid strong. Once per game. And he's 200 Points. Well worth it though. Problem is, nearly all Stormcast Eternal units are expensive.

    Knight-Heraldor: Pick an SE unit in the Hero Phase, that unit can Run/Retreat and Charge in the same turn. Nice. It's not even a Command Ability. In addition, he can cause Mortal Wounds against units in Terrain, and that's nice. At only 120 Points, you may not even want to gouge your eyes out to get him!

    Battleline
    Liberators: 2 Wounds and 2 attacks each is pretty strong. The 4+ Save is also good. What's not so good, is the Bravery 6. Bravery <7 on multi-wound models is really bad, because Battleshock doesn't care how many Wounds you have. The 100/5 price tag is also pretty steep, since you definitely want more than 5 models in any given unit, which basically take the unit to 200/10, which will give you an extra Grandweapon to do extra Damage. It's a very nice unit, but you'll want to avoid Battleshock like the plague. Maybe if there was some way you could make your SE's not take Battleshock at all?

    Judicators: 'The Shooty Ones'. Again, Bravery 6. You'll want to look into that. All Judicators re-roll 1s when attacking Chaos models in the Shooting phase. As with all shooty units, the better one is usually the one with 24" range, unless it has significant bonuses, which the Judicators' alternate weapon, doesn't have. At 160/5, these are even more expensive than Liberators. You aren't going to need more than one unit of Judicators, and then just spam whatever else your Battleline requirement is with Liberators.

    Other
    Prosecutors (Hammers): Liberators that Fly. They can also throw their Hammers. Unfortunately, at 100/3, their price tag is pretty bad...and again with the Bravery 6.
    Prosecutors (Javelins): These aren't even close to Judicators that Fly. Fortunately, at 80/3 (i.e; 160/6) their price tag is actually worth paying, since they're cheaper than Judicators and can actually move around the board. Also, and this is never going to get old; Bravery <7 on multi-wound models is bad. Make sure that there's something in your army fixing Battleshock.

    Retributors: Now with 3 Wounds...and Bravery 7! We've arrived. On a '6' To Hit, they deal 2 Mortal Wounds. Their special weapon is 'Just do D3 MWs. Don't even roll.' Retributors are fantastically strong, and at 220/5, they'd want to be (these will not be trying to score, don't bother with 440/10).

    Decimators: 3W, B7. Slightly cheaper than Retributors, but not as good. They gain extra attacks for each enemy model within range, but that just means that they're garbage at fighting large, single targets. Against large-count units, you can use any other SE unit that carries 2 Attacks base, for cheaper. Seriously. Liberators are half the cost, and Battleline.

    Protectors: Your Monster hunters. In addition, enemy shooting attacks are at -1 To Hit, making them even more survivable (as if 3 Wounds wasn't enough). Decimators aren't good at fighting single targets. Well, if Protectors are Monster hunters, wouldn't that make them bad at fighting hordes? ...Not even remotely my friend. Protectors have 3 Attacks each. Because screw you, that's why. At 200/5, they're quite good.

    Gryph-Hound: The Dog, the Myth, the Legend. A Gryph-Hound gets better if it's near a Lord-Castellant, but no-one cares about that model. You aren't paying an exorbitant price for the Lord-Castellant, you're paying for GRYPHDOG. For 40 Points, set up Gryphdog as close to your best and most shootiest unit you own. If any enemy unit sets up nearer than 10" to Gryphdog, roll 2D6. Any unit within that many inches to the enemy unit, can shoot at the set up unit, as though it were their Shooting phase. Gryphdog doesn't give an Interceptor bubble around himself, no, Gryphdog gives an Interceptor bubble around the enemy unit. All units within range of the unit can make a Shooting attack. Gryphdog just barks. Arf! Arf! Arf! Or whatever sound a Gryphdog makes. Now, there aren't a lot of units in AoS that can set up closer than 9" to enemy models, but the ones that do, are real pains in the arse. Gryphdog is also fantastic against Summoning, since Summoners generally want to put their new units right in your face...And when that happens, Gryphdog barks and the intruders get shot in the face. By everything.
    If you're playing Order, a Gryph-Hound is almost mandatory in any army you make. It's only 40 Points. How are you not!?


    Warscroll Battalions
    Warrior Brotherhood: So you read the Knight-Azyros, and were like "What's Lightning Strike?", this is. Bring an arse-ton of units. Each unit gets +1 Bravery if there's another SE unit within 6". Yay! Bravery 7 (and 8)! Any unit in the Battalion does not have to set up during deployment. Instead, they can come down anywhere - at any time - more than 9" away from enemy models. Did you bring your Knight-Azyros? If a unit from this Battalion is within 8" of two other units from the Battalion, re-roll 1s To Wound. Your minimum buy-in for this Battalion is close to 1500 Points, easy.

    The Skyborne Slayers: Any unit from this Battalion can choose to not deploy. Instead, pick a point on the battlefield, for the rest of the game, models from this Battalion must arrive within 12" of that point, and only 5" away from enemy models. This is not Lightning Strike. In addition, models from this Battalion don't take Battleshock Tests. You did it. *Slow clap*. You magnificent bastards. You did it. We finally got there. Yes. Yeesss! ...The minimum buy-in is 1020 Points. So take that, 1000 Point games.


    Extremis Chambers

    Spoiler: They're still Stormcasts
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    Leaders
    Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (B): 600 Points. Hot damn. 16 Wounds, with a 3+ Save, re-rolling 1s. If the re-roll turns into a successful save, deal a Mortal Wound to the enemy unit. If a model the Stardrake is fighting has <6 Wounds on their profile, the 'Drake can just eat them. The Stardrake can also bring the lightning, and start smashing stuff with Mortal Wounds. Funny story, though. The Stardrake is better than the Lord-Celestant. If you read closely, you'll see that the Stardrake has the Command Ability, not the guy on top. All your SE 'beasts' on the board can re-roll To Wound with their animal weapons.
    Wizards in your army can +/- 1 to their casting rolls. But there are much cheaper ways of getting this exact bonus.

    Drakesworn Templar (B): 500 Points isn't better. It's basically the same as the Lord-Celestant - including +1 to cast for Wizards - except lacks a fixed Command Ability, and correspondingly, the Templar isn't as good as the Lord-Celestant in combat. But that's not what's important. You're paying for the Stardrake.

    Lord-Celestant on Dracoth: TGH says you can take one under the Extremis Chambers. But it doesn't matter. It's not like Extremis has a unit that turns Battleline if you have Allegiance. The only keywords you really need to look for are Stormcast Eternals. Which everything has anyway.

    Other
    Fulminators: 5 Wounds, 3+ Save. Bravery 7. Great. +1 Save during the Shooting phase. 240/2 is still real steep, and you shouldn't do it.
    Tempestors: Ditto. But with Crossbows. The unit they shoot at gets -1 To Hit until your next turn. 240/2 is still real steep, and you shouldn't do it.
    Concussors: Ditto. They stun their target in Melee, hence the name. The Dracoths in this unit, however, are much better, just straight up doing MWs. 240/2...
    Desolators: Ditto. If there are four models in the unit, they get an extra attack, if there are six models in the unit, they get another one. 280/2 makes me want to cry.



    If you play Order, but aren't interested in Stormcasts, the Knight-Azyros, and Gryph-Hound are still massive, individual force multipliers, and you should definitely look into them. Other SE multipliers only help other SE units, and you don't need to worry.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2016-07-23 at 04:52 AM.
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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    How I spent my Sunday; First non-40K model that I've painted in a long, long time...

    Belegar Ironhammer Warden King

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    Paint time; ~6 hours.


    Only reason that he's not based is because I haven't decided how to base my Duardin yet.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2016-07-24 at 03:10 AM.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    How I spent my Sunday; First non-40K model that I've painted in a long, long time...

    Belegar Ironhammer Warden King

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    Paint time; ~6 hours.


    Only reason that he's not based is because I haven't decided how to base my Duardin yet.
    And not a drop of yellow on him. He looks pretty flash Cheese, well done!

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Learning lessons from today:

    • Battalions aren't worth it when your tax units aren't good. Heralds of Nurgle are too expensive for something that basically just activates Loci, and Nurglings are just horrible.
    • Ogres are brutal. Brutal.
    • Rend is super important.
    • Doesn't matter how many fancy rules you have, an army full of low wound 5+ save units is pretty subpar
    • Daemon Princes suck when you can't roll a single 3+ save


    Kind of having fun with Chaos, kind of feeling like starting something else. I'd love to start Stormcasts, but they're so bloody expensive if you want anything not in the starter kits. And the good stuff isn't the starter kits, for the most part.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    And the good stuff isn't the starter kits, for the most part.
    lolwat.

    Main boxed game;
    Lord-Celestant on Dracoth. Basically mandatory for his Command Ability.
    Lord-Relictor; He's 'fine', but you can replace him with pretty much anything.
    x10 Liberators. Again, basically mandatory. x2 Battleline.
    x3 Retributors are 'fine', but actually come in blocks of 5. But we'll circle back.
    x3 Prosecutors (with Hammers) are pretty bad. Do some conversion work, give 'em Javelins.

    So far, the Retributors aren't quite usable, and the Prosecutors need converting. Lord-Relictor isn't bad, just unnecessary.

    Start Collecting!
    Lord-Celestant. Ew.
    Another 5 Liberators. Now you actually have a Scoring unit of 10, and another of 5.
    x3 Prosecutors; These are the real ones, not the snap-fit ones, so give them Javelins.
    x2 Retributors; Ta-da! That's your five.

    Order
    (G) Lord-Celestant on Dracoth - 220 Points

    Liberators (x10) - 200 Points
    Liberators (x5) - 100 Points

    Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (x3) - 80 Points
    Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (x3) - 80 Points
    Retributors (x5) - 220 Points

    Total: 900 Points

    Lord-Celestant - 100 Points

    You have 1000 Points, with what amounts to pretty much no dead weight (aside from the extra Celestant). Just from starter boxes. What are you even talking about!?

    Knight-Azyros - 100 Points
    Judicators (x5) - 160 Points
    Judicators (x5) - 160 Points

    Total: 1420 Points

    Lord-Relictor - 80 Points
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    lolwat.
    I don't agree that Liberators are nearly as good as Judicators - you have an army with lots of very strong front-line combat units, why not have your Battleline units be ones of the better ranged foot dudes in the game?

    Like you, I also consider Extremis Chambers to be Stormcast. And there are really, really no ways to get them for a reasonable price. I don't mind paying big for the Stardrake, since it's a massive model and looks about as kickass as you can dream, but I'm no fan of the pricepoint of the Dracoths.

    I also don't really know any decent way to convert Javelins and Shields onto the snapfit Prosecutors, and I sure as heck ain't running them with hammers and no shields.

    So I guess what I should have said was "I really want to make an army of Dracoths, Judicators, and Javelin Prosecutors, and that's not conducive to buying the starter sets". Apologies.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Like you, I also consider Extremis Chambers to be Stormcast.
    Extremis Chambers are Stormcasts. Check the keywords. The thing that I'm bothered by is that there's no reason to split them up. The point of splitting up a single Faction, is for Allegiance-Battleline swaps. But, since neither Stormcasts nor Extremis Chambers have Battleline swaps, what is the point in splitting them up, like they have?

    I guess we'll find out when Stormcasts/Extremis get their own post-TGH book.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Actually I think what annoys me most about playing Chaos so far is that, at least for Daemons, there doesn't seem to be any just power units that kick ass and take names. Princes and Be'lakor sort of do, the GUO rather does, but there don't seem to be an equivalent to something like Ironjaw Brutes or Gutbustas that delete the things they walk towards.

    Maybe need to branch out into Slaves to Darkness for things like Chaos Knights or the like. Or need to get more combos going, I think maybe a Sorc Lord with Steed supporting Be'lakor might be pretty scary.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I still just don't rate Dracoths though. 240/2 isn't strong. I know, that between two models, you've got 10 Wounds, and that's a lot. But it doesn't matter how many Wounds you have, because Scoring Objectives in the game is more often than not, based on model count. 480/4 still doesn't fix the problem. It's only when you get to six models do Dracoths become viable, and at that point? 720 Points! For one unit! That's not even Battleline or a Leader so you still have taxes to pay.

    Compared to Prosecutors with Javelines. 80/3 is well, three models isn't good. But I'm certainly glad to pay 80 Points for only three models. 160/6 solves the model count issue and is still easily affordable.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I still just don't rate Dracoths though. 240/2 isn't strong. I know, that between two models, you've got 10 Wounds, and that's a lot. But it doesn't matter how many Wounds you have, because Scoring Objectives in the game is more often than not, based on model count. 480/4 still doesn't fix the problem. It's only when you get to six models do Dracoths become viable, and at that point? 720 Points! For one unit! That's not even Battleline or a Leader so you still have taxes to pay.
    Disagree. There is only one mission that requires 5 units to hold an objective. The rest are either "have more models than your opponent" or "any of your models and none of your opponent's" to hold. Both are easier with more units, but when you're as rough and tumble as Dracoths, you can scare people off your points or just straight up kill them.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    The guy here who runs a unit of 6-8 Dracoths has lost every game bar 1 that he's played with them. As soon as he drops them and takes other stuff, he wins. Cool as they are and relatively nasty as they are, they don't stand up against the really scary stuff (Manfred/Mawcrusha/Hellpit etc) and other things would wipe out battle line stuff just as easy for way less points without being quite so vulnerable to a Bunch of Artillery/Kurnoth Hunters/Warpfire Projectors.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Cool as they are and relatively nasty as they are, they don't stand up...
    The second that anything starts throwing out Mortal Wounds (and there are quite a number of those), Stormcasts start dropping like flies. Dracoths might have 3+ Armour, but once you get into -2 Rend territory and Mortal Wounds, Dracoths start taking it sideways. If you want the 10" Move (and you do), you're way better off with Prosecutors at one third the cost.

    I like Dracoths. I really, really do. But then TGH came out and I saw their pricetag (Currency or Points, take your pick), and was like "Nope!"

    Just about the only thing that makes Dracoths worth taking, is the Knight-Vexillor's teleport ability. But any Stormcast unit can make use of that for far less points. Similarly, as I progress through the Order Tome, they'll be a number of things that you could combo with Dracoths. But you could combo anything with anything, for less points than Dracoths. And, ultimately, playing 'just Stormcasts' isn't how the game works.

    Stardrakes give bonuses to Wizards. Stormcasts don't have any Wizard units. The only one that even comes close is the Lord-Relictor, and he's a Priest. The game is designed from the ground up, to intend for Grand Alliances, not single Factions.

    If your plan is to make Dracoths work, it wont be by playing 'Just Stormcasts.'
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    The second that anything starts throwing out Mortal Wounds (and there are quite a number of those), Stormcasts start dropping like flies. Dracoths might have 3+ Armour, but once you get into -2 Rend territory and Mortal Wounds, Dracoths start taking it sideways. If you want the 10" Move (and you do), you're way better off with Prosecutors at one third the cost.
    Yeah, but what unit in that game isn't that true for? I guess horde units don't care as much about MWs or high rend (because they don't care about losing models), but there are very few units in the game that ignore MWs or Rending.

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