Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

[9mm]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-4/

hoo boy this book is going to be a reader...

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-4/

hoo boy this book is going to be a reader...

I'm ready to pick it up and just play my Stormcast models just with different rules

The bonus on Endless Spells is a very interesting touch. The fact that they'll (almost) always be better than the opponent's, not to mention the Hurricanum makes casting them easier, means even some of the less popular ones might see use. At the very least, using the Soulscream Bridge with a large setup range can make short range shooters (Handgunners, Irondrakes, Crossbows, etc) easier to position and reposition on the fly.

Also, Umbral Spellportal letting you Storm of Shemtek anywhere on the board? Lol.

[PraetorDragoon]

Well, this looks pretty neat so far. And it seems its time to get another Hydra....

[Artemis97]

I just spent a half an hour watching an explanation of how to play Underworlds: Beastgrave because I like the Kurnothi miniatures. I'm not sure if that time was well spent. I don't think I'm any closer to buying the game, though maybe I understand it a bit better.

Super glad to see the Aelves are coming back. I think I see my favorite white lions chariot in that splash of battleline units? Some sort of chariot there, anyways, but the color doesn't look like the official art. Maybe they repainted it for the new release. I hope my prince on a griffin is there too. I think he counts as a shadow warrior, somehow. I recall they had synergies before. Glad to know that if I play my army from the City of Life I can use all my Sylvaneth units too. Definitely going to be picking up Cities of Sigmar.

I also want to pick up that Sylvaneth guy with the big dragonfly wings somehow. Destro says he should be out in a year from his initial release in the Gloomspire Gits box. He says that GW usually releases the special guys from their boxed sets as individual minis for purchase. However I never saw my high elf prince on a griffin be available that way, so I'm skeptical. Got lucky enough to get him off ebay. Maybe they'll release him on a round base for Cities of Sigmar? 'Course I already have one, so that's sort of a moot point. (but maybe I can paint two!)

Oh goodness, I think I'm beginning to obsess over this hobby and I've hardly even put brush to plastic.

[LeSwordfish]

I would suggest having a look through the GW webstore - a lot of old aelf models have been discontinued, and if it's not there, it won't be in the new book. GW has promised some form of rules for them but nobody is yet sure how that works.

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-2/

WAAAAGGGHHHHHH

There's literally an ability just called "Mad As Hell". This book is freaking brilliant.

I wonder how much Ironjawz will change, given that they just had Allegiance abilities in GHB2019. They're pretty good atm, so subfactions and expanded options is just icing.

Bonesplitterz seem to have gotten a significant boost. Warpaint is better against Rend- or Rend1, and the two subfactions shown seem really powerful. Drakkfoot in particular is kinda crazy, allowing you to punch through Nurgle Daemons, Skaven Heroes, Phoenixes, and Fyreslayers more easily than others. The Bonegrinz forced combat is pretty interesting, but will depend on a lot of factors.

As for the Big Waaagh, well it's super hard to tell whether it's better or worse than specific Ironjawz/Bonesplitterz. The increasing power seems great, but how easy is it to build up? What can you get for spending? Is there a summon/reinforce mechanic for 24+ Waaagh Points? Can't wait to get my hands on it.

Edit: It has come to my attention that Drakkfoot's ability (as is currently worded) ignores Gotrek's 3+ shrug and Mortahi's "Iron Heart of Khaine" rules, allowing them to just straight up murder two of the hardiest enemies in the game. This is, as the kids say, super dope.

[PraetorDragoon]

Wow. Drakkfoot sounds brutal.

Waaghclans sounds nice so far.

[LansXero]

I just spent a half an hour watching an explanation of how to play Underworlds: Beastgrave because I like the Kurnothi miniatures. I'm not sure if that time was well spent. I don't think I'm any closer to buying the game

From the official site? I find Becca to be super cute, yet unwatchable cringy. Cant stand more than 20s of her videos.

[Artemis97]

Yeah it was the official video. You're right there was definitely something off about her.

Looked over the webstore Aelves. Seems like my White Lions didn't make the cut. That's annoying. They may be relegated to a diorama, then, if there's no rules for them. Same for the elf on a griffin. There were some rules for them in the Generals Handbook I think? I was using the Warhammer app on my phone to look up rules for them. I wonder if they 'updated' it to no longer include those models.

That makes me sad, but I guess Chrace doesn't exist anymore, so where are they going to get the lions, right? Guess I'll just lean heavy into Wanderers and Sylvaneth.

[PraetorDragoon]

Yeah it was the official video. You're right there was definitely something off about her.

Looked over the webstore Aelves. Seems like my White Lions didn't make the cut. That's annoying. They may be relegated to a diorama, then, if there's no rules for them. Same for the elf on a griffin. There were some rules for them in the Generals Handbook I think? I was using the Warhammer app on my phone to look up rules for them. I wonder if they 'updated' it to no longer include those models.

That makes me sad, but I guess Chrace doesn't exist anymore, so where are they going to get the lions, right? Guess I'll just lean heavy into Wanderers and Sylvaneth.

Sad indeed.

We currently have no clue how the different units fit into the cities, and if its by keyword then it might be possible to sneak in some of the old units.

otherwise, there is always the option to use your current models by picking different rules. I.E. white lions could be the wanderer greatsword rangers or something. Depends a bit on the niceness of the other players, but so does the rest of the game.

IIRC GW is also going to publish some rules & points for their out of production armies (Legends) soonish as well, so that might also be an option. No idea about the timeline there.

[Cheesegear]

We currently have no clue how the different units fit into the cities, and if its by keyword then it might be possible to sneak in some of the old units.

If it helps, Firestorm had the following:

Hammerhal; All <Order> except <Seraphon>
Anvilgard; Stormcasts, Free People, Dispossessed, Devoted, Darklings, Scourge and Order Serpentis
Tempest's Eye; Stormcasts, Free People, Kharadrons, Swifthawks and Eldritch Council
Hallowheart; Stormcasts, Fyreslayers, Free People, College, Dispos, Council, Draconis and Phoenix Temple
Living City; Stormcasts, Free People, Sylvaneth, Wanderers, Dispos
Greywater Fastness; Stormcasts, Free People, Ironweld, College, Wanderers
The Phoenicium; Stormcasts, Free People, Dispos and Phoenix Temple

[druid91]

Honestly I really don't like Cities of Sigmar. It's like they had no idea what to do with the armies and were opposed to debalkanizing them for whatever reason.

[Requizen]

They did a bit of a preview stream for Orruks today, not much new but a few things:

-Warchanters give +1 damage to attacks (instead of hits or both? unclear), which is brutal
-Gordrakk gives +6 Waaagh Points per turn, Chanters give 2
-Points give bonuses to casting, hitting, wounding, charging, apparently board-wide
-Lots of streamlined weapon profiles, example Ardboyz have the same profile no matter what weapon option you chose (2x 3/3/-1/1, so basically a straight upgrade)

-Rogue Idol gains both Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz, yay!

-Brutes down to 140
-Mawkrusha traits (showed +2" move, +1 damage to mount weapons)
-Warchanters get "Beats", which act like Prayers (showed 4+ roll to give a unit 3d6 Charge and can charge from 18")
-Brutefist changed to just do impact hits on the charge

Not sure if I'll go for Bonesplitterz, who seem well buffed, or Big Waaagh for a different army. I don't think I like pure meat blobs like Bonesplitterz currently is, so some elite units could fill this out well.

[PraetorDragoon]

Sounds like you really, really want warchanters with Ironjawz.

Consilidated profiles is good, more conversion options that way.

[Cheesegear]

So what's missing from Cities of Sigmar (according to the webstore):

• <Devoted of Sigmar> are no longer a thing. The remaining Flagellants will simply be rolled into Freeguild, I guess. I don't think anybody is particularly bothered by this.
• <Freeguild> Archers are gone - good riddance. Crossbows and Handguns are way better anyway.
• Anything from the Arcane College is fine. Ride those Hurricanums to victory!
• <Ironweld> ...Gunmaster and the Duardin Artillery are gone. Pretty big kick in the teeth as Cannons and Organ Guns were actually pretty good.
• <Dispossessed> got shattered. The Unforged went missing for obvious reasons. Its whole schtick is the Fyreslayers' entire Faction. Warriors, Thunderers and Quarellers have been evaporated. You could make a pretty solid argument that your Crossbowmen and Thunderers just use the Freeguild Warscrolls for the equivalent units. Line of Sight could be a problem with shorter models. But from what I've seen of AoS, LoS barely matters unless you're talking about Characters. I have no idea how Duardin players are supposed to reflavour their Warriors, though. Especially if they've gone 'Full AoS' with Great Weapon and Shield.
• <Eldritch Council>, <Lion Rangers>, and <Order Draconis> just...Gone. Shadow Warriors are all that remain of the <Swifthawks>. I guess Eagle Chariots don't cut the mustard anymore when you've got MFing Phoenixes to play with. That being said, the Phoenix Temple is totally safe. I wasn't a fan of the new High Elf fluff anyway. The Ur-Phoenix is a Godbeast. I don't understand it. I don't get it. Highborn are lame. Didn't Teclis/Tyrion ascend to Godhood? Why isn't that a thing? WhyTF do we give a **** about the Phoenix?
• Despite Idoneth Deepkin and Daughters of Khaine stealing everything good about Dark Elves; Scourge, Darklings, Shadowblades and Serpentis get to keep everything. If you're going to do that, GW, you might as well give them a Battletome!
• <Wanderer> Characters no longer exist, save for the Nomad Prince. But the Units all still exist.

Big winners are basically Empire/Freeguild and the Dark Elves/Exiles. Dorfs, High and Wood Aelves are on the 'buy new models' train. For better or worse.
...Unless what's left is amazing.

[PraetorDragoon]

Alright, the first preview copies of Cities are out, so we have some info now.

- No City limits on Cities of Sigmar units, but some cities work better for certain parts. (i.e. scourge privateers gain more things in Anvilgard)
- Wizards using endless spells use the empowered regardless of realms.
-
- Each city has its own command traits, artefacts and spell lore.
- 1 in 4 units can be Stromcast, so you can't spam those.
- Living City can include 1 sylvaneth unit in every 4 units.
- Tempest Eye can include 1 KO unit in every 4 units.
- Battlelines are dependend on either the city or the general.

One fun thing I noticed is that you can run an army of Steam Tanks.

[Artemis97]

No Wanderer characters? Does that mean my spellweaver is kaput now? I am... annoyed, if it is.

[Cheesegear]

No Wanderer characters? Does that mean my spellweaver is kaput now? I am... annoyed, if it is.

Yes. Time to buy Freeguild Battlemages or a Darkling Sorceress. But, the way I'd do it is to convince people in my meta that I can use my old models re-fluffed as something else. I'm sure if you say 'Aelf Wizard' I'm sure people will understand whatever rules you've decided to give it.

[PraetorDragoon]

No Wanderer characters? Does that mean my spellweaver is kaput now? I am... annoyed, if it is.

The only wanderer character that made it into the book is the Nomad Prince.

For the others you either have to 1)use old rules and not use cities; or 2) Use cities and see if you can find any nice counts as. In case of the spellweaver, you can easily run her as a Sorceress as an elf magic lady is pretty much an elf magic lady.

[Requizen]

Thanks to a youtube walkthrough of the book and the updated app with warscrolls, I'm now fully invested in my Bonesplitterz

Basically every unit got increased attacks across the board, which is a welcome change. Some abilities were lost or changed, but nothing that makes a unit useless compared to what it was before. Bonus attacks on size are easier to get now - used to be 20 models for an extra attack, now down to 15.

The Bonesplitterz specific abilities are quite good, they really benefit fighting monsters and being tricky.

Great Waaagh seems interesting - Waaagh Points take some time to build up unless you build specifically to "farm" them by taking specific Heroes, but once it gets rolling the army becomes stronger than would otherwise be possible.

The current meta can be quite fast, so I dunno if it's better to take the guaranteed early game power of the Bonesplitterz Allegiance or go for the Waaagh to mix in something like a Mawkrusha and Brutes. Will stick with just Bonesplitterz for the time being before buying anything new, but I'm tempted to pick up Gordrakk and try out the mixed force.

[PraetorDragoon]

Haven't seen much of the various Orruk rules yet, but what I have seen of the warscrolls seems... scary.

[PraetorDragoon]

On a different note, Longbreads being able to complain at endless spells so they bugger off is one of my favourite rules.

"Pfwah, this is what you call a purple sun? Back in my days we had to take initiative tests or be removed. "
*Purple Sun slinks off in shame*

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...e-eightpoints/

Some more future stuff for Warcry. Starter box has been noted to leave soonish, so get yours while you still can.

[Requizen]

Haven't seen much of the various Orruk rules yet, but what I have seen of the warscrolls seems... scary.

I skipped most of the Ironjawz stuff since I don't plan on playing them, but it seems like what's in the GHB for them + the new previewed stuff like Mad As Hell. Warchanters are quite good overall, that's a flat boost for the most part.

Bonesplitterz though, hoo boy:

-Pretty much all warscrolls got extra attacks (in some cases a quite noticeable bump), Boars are faster, and all spells are better.
-Half the army gets to make a 5" move at the start of the game. Usually this is a Trait or subfaction bonus, so just having it flat is amazing, lots of utility.
-Warpaint is now just a shrug. As I noted before, whether this is better or worse depends on the enemy's weapon profile, but overall is just better imo.
-Most abilities that were random effects are now something you choose, which is a big boost for the Monster Hunter ability.
-Exploding 6s is clarified better and buffed, since it's "scores 2 hits instead of 1" rather than "make an extra attack". Faster to play, and technically better mathwise.
-Clans (subfactions) are quite good:
--Bonegrinz get an extra exploding hits CA and force combat. Really strong against finesse/squishy armies.
--Icebone gets improve rend on 6s to wound (great since most of our abilities are no Rend)
--Drakkfoot ignores shrug saves, can spend a CA to let units unbind, and get some buffs for Wizards.


Big Waaagh is interesting. You start out with no Allegiance bonuses at all, but gain more as you gain Points. Generate Waaagh points by having a General on the board (d6 unless he's Gordrakk, then 6), +2 per Chanter, +1 per Wardokk, more for charging and being in combat. There's also a CA to spend a Command Point to gain Waaagh Points.
You get passive bonuses over time - army wide Mad As Hell, Warpaint, +1 hit, +1 wound, +1 charge, +1 casting.
Gain an ability to spend Waaagh Points to gain more casting bonuses
Gain the previewed Waaagh CA

So once you're fully powered, it's quite strong, but it takes some buildup time. Can decrease that with specific builds, though.

[PraetorDragoon]

The great waagh does sound pretty fun.

[Cheesegear]

Alright, the first preview copies of Cities are out, so we have some info now.

No City limits on Cities of Sigmar units, but some cities work better for certain parts. (i.e. scourge privateers gain more things in Anvilgard)

Which is a pain in the arse 'cause GW is selling the Start Collecting boxes like there are limits.

Wizards using endless spells use the empowered regardless of realms.

I haven't played Sigmar since before GH'2. So I definitely missed the boat on how Endless Spells work... Is this good?
Do I finally get a homeless wizard on a two-headed griffon?

[LeSwordfish]

Better for some than others. Predatory ones move faster, but the portal can be placed anywhere on the board (and you can then send other spells through it, including the end point of "draw a line..." spells) and the lifeswarm heals D6 wounds not D3. I'm considering running a Living City list with a lifeswarm and two treemen healing d6+1 wounds per turn each.

[PraetorDragoon]

Which is a pain in the arse 'cause GW is selling the Start Collecting boxes like there are limits.

Yeah, its a bit silly. Nothing limiting you from taking the two boxes and running them in a single city.

I haven't played Sigmar since before GH'2. So I definitely missed the boat on how Endless Spells work... Is this good?
Do I finally get a homeless wizard on a two-headed griffon?

Most endless spells have a rule "Empowered by .." which gives additional movement, range or a bit better of an effect. Usefulness is dependent on spells.

Seeing that the homeless wizard on a two-headed griffon knows 4 spells base (amber spear, wildform, bolt and shield) A bit squishy, but does some damage in melee and can get there with Wildform if you want to. I think he wants a home in hallowheart (or whatever the high magic city that allows +1 cast is called) The hallowheart battalion also requires just wizards, so thats useful as well.

EDIT: Something fun I was thinking off was running Flagellants in Hallowheart. You can cast Warding Brand on them so they deal a mortal wound on a 4+ each time a Flagellant suffers a wound in melee, and they can deal a mortal on a 4+ each time one flees. Plus they can get a decent amount of attacks assuming some in the same turn, maybe by moving an Endless Spell over them?

[Cheesegear]

If I have Allegiance <X>, can I take a Warscroll Battalion with Allegiance <Y>?

Can you take 'Allies' from your own Battletome, without breaking your Allegiance?

[LeSwordfish]

If I have Allegiance <X>, can I take a Warscroll Battalion with Allegiance <Y>?

Yes, but it needs to come out of your Allies allowance, as do the contents, so good luck fitting it in. (Cities of Sigmar's special allies might do things differently, though.)

Can you take 'Allies' from your own Battletome, without breaking your Allegiance?

As in, you want a Living Cities army with some Anvilgard units, or something? Will depend on the specific wording, but as of yet there's no point in that: you only ever benefit from one Allegiance, so you don't have Living City and Anvilgard, you have Living City and Miscellaneous.

The books I have in front of me do things slightly differently.

• Stormcast Eternals: You choose one Stormhost keyword for your army, which everything gets unless it already has another one. As such, the only "allies" are named characters.
• Idoneth: You choose one enclave, everyone gets it. No in-book allies possible. Doesn't use a Keyword, just an extra thing <Idoneth Deepkin> get.
• Beasts of Chaos: All <Beasts of Chaos> units get a greatfray keyword. Nothing has one already, no allies possible.
• Legions of Nagash: (An older book): four entire different allegiance abilities. Choose one, everything chosen from the battletome gets it. Even named characters get the allegiance abilities this way, although each allegiance has rules on which can be taken.

I think it's most likely that all <Cities of Sigmar> units will get the <your city here> keyword, so it won't be possible to take allies as such.

[Cheesegear]

I think it's most likely that all <Cities of Sigmar> units will get the <your city here> keyword, so it won't be possible to take allies as such.

A Whitefire Retinue is a minimum of 410 Points. But it's <Hallowheart> only.

<Hallowheart> only really benefits Wizards. I dunno about you, but there are a lot of non-Wizard units in the book, which makes Hallowheart basically unplayable... Except for that Warscroll Battalion, which would be pretty good if you could only take Hallowheart Wizards and nothing else.

EDIT: Maybe HH could pick up some Stormcast Wizards?