The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Hm, do you guys think Rend or Damage > 1 is more important?

    So I'm comparing Javelin Prosecutors and Judicators as ranged options. Judicators have more range, Prosecutors are faster and cost less points per model. It's a reasonable comparison, I think. The big difference in their shooting profile is that the Judicators have Rend -1, but the Prosecutors can have Damage 2 if they're in the right range (very easy to do with mobility and strong frontline units). So the Judicators get more wounds through, but any wounds that the Prosecutors get through will do more.

    What is your guy's take on the difference? Damage 2 is great against multi-wound models because it helps chunk through them quicker (only need to get 2 through on Ogors instead of 4 for Judicators), but Rend takes priority if suddenly you come against lots of 3+ save units or things having saves buffed (Sylvaneth hanging out in Woods comes to mind).

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    LCP's Avatar

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Did the GH change how Damage works? At release I remember that Damage > 1 applied whether your target was multi-wound or single-wound - the wounds just overflow onto the rest of the unit.

    As such the only situation in which Rend -1 is better than Damage 2 is if targeting a unit with a 2+ save. In all other situations Damage 2 is strictly better.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    Did the GH change how Damage works? At release I remember that Damage > 1 applied whether your target was multi-wound or single-wound - the wounds just overflow onto the rest of the unit.

    As such the only situation in which Rend -1 is better than Damage 2 is if targeting a unit with a 2+ save. In all other situations Damage 2 is strictly better.
    No, that's how it works, I just wasn't sure since I hadn't run the numbers. 3+ saves are hard to break through as well, especially if they can reroll.

    5 Judicators shooting at a 4+ unit -> 1.48 wounds
    5 Prosecutors shooting at a 4+ unit (assuming 2 damage range) ->2.22 wounds

    Yeah you're totally right. I guess it comes down to how hot your opponent's saves are, sometimes it feels like 5+ saves are 3+ or better

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    It's another thing about AoS' combat system that feels semi-innumerate to me... Damage and number of attacks are almost interchangeable in their effect. The only difference between ramping one up compared to the other is the variance of the result (e.g. 1 attack at Damage 10 is swingier than 10 attacks at Damage 1), but in practice both stick within a fairly limited range that minimises this difference.

    A correction to my above post - when I said "better than", I should have said "better than or equal to". Against a 2+ save, Rend -1 is exactly as good as Damage 2 - both multiply your damage output by 2. Against any worse save Damage 2 is strictly superior (although if your opponent has rerolls that would complicate the situation).

    EDIT: If your opponent has full rerolls (i.e. not just rerolling 1s) then Rend 1 starts being better than Damage 2 at 3+ saves. If they can only reroll 1s then the threshold is still at 2+ (but then Rend is genuinely a little better, not just equivalent).
    Last edited by LCP; 2016-07-28 at 01:10 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Went up against a Celestial Hurricanum today. That thing is insane. Anywhere between 3 and 3d6 Mortal Wounds per shooting phase until you chunk it down, without needing to roll to hit or anything. Nuts. Point cost is appropriate, but without the range or damage to kill it, it was just able to eat through so much stuff.

    Daemons are off to buyers, picking up Stormcast starter set and a box of Judicators tomorrow. Unless I change my mind...

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Guide to the Order Grand Alliance
    Part II; Seraphon

    Disclaimer; These Guides will not feature any references to Compendium/Legacy units. You can't buy them anymore, so it would be disingenuous to recommend them in any capacity. If you've already got some, then you probably already know how good they are.

    Spoiler: Slann
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    Leaders
    Slann Starmaster: With a respectable 7 Wounds and 4+ Armour, the Slann comes in at a nice 260 Points. After Deployment, roll a D6 and your SERAPHON on the board get buffed. A Slann is a Level 3 Wizard, who knows Light of the Heavens, which can be cast on CELESTIAL DAEMONS (read; Seraphon) or CHAOS DAEMON units. Celestials roll two dice for Battleshock, discarding the highest, and Chaos units do the same, but discard the lowest. Instead of casting one spell, the Slann can attempt to change the Seraphon-wide buff, except he has to do this before he casts Spells, and if he rolls a '1', he can't cast for the rest of the turn. In addition, a Slann can measure range or LoS from any SKINK HERO within 15", which is handy for casting Arcane Bolt from behind a wall. A Slann's Command Ability is that Seraphon within 10" can re-roll failed Saves in the shooting phase. Very nice. Since all Seraphon are Bravery 10, it's not like you'll need Inspiring Presence.

    Lord Kroak: Since Kroak is immortal, he managed to survive the destruction of the Old World. Yay! Kroak doesn't have Wounds. In fact, he's one of the only (the only?) character in the game that actually cares about his Bravery - it's 10, BTW. Add up the number of Wounds that Kroak has taken that turn, and roll Battleshock, if he fails, he's dead. If he doesn't, he regenerates and can't die. This means that unless Kroak takes 5 or more Wounds in one turn, he can't even die. And even if he does, it's not a sure thing. Kroak is a Level 4 Wizard with a Nova power that doesn't really work, but does extra Wounds to CHAOS DAEMONS, and his second signature spell does D3 MWs to D3 - sometimes D6 - units. His Command Ability gives you 0<3 re-rolls on any dice until your next Hero Phase. All that, and he's over 500 Points, which isn't too bad.
    As you can see, Kroak doesn't give out the Seraphon-wide buff, and he can't cast through Skink Heroes. In fact, he has no rules tying him to Seraphon at all. Including his Command Ability. Kroak doesn't buff your army like other Generals. No, Kroak buffs you, the player, regardless of your army. Kroak also has a stunning ability to not die, which makes him a good General for many Order army lists. Not all, but many.

    SLANN WIZARDS can Summon any Seraphon unit. Outside of Matched Play, it's stupid strong. That's probably why it's limited in Matched Play.
    As with all WIZARDS, never underestimate the power of Mystic Shield.


    Spoiler: Saurus
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    Leaders
    Saurus Heroes, even on foot, have 7 Wounds. This immediately makes all of them actually playable. Some are better than others, sure. But that's always going to be the case.

    Saurus Oldblood: 7W, 4+ Save. Ignores Rend -1. Decent. SAURUS within a tiny range can re-roll 1s To Wound. His Command Ability allows you to do a conga-line to get slightly closer to make Charges. Ignore for...

    Saurus Sunblood: Same deal, but Ignores Rend -2. He has five attacks, which can generate extra attacks, and can generate extra Wounds. His Command Ability is pick an enemy unit; All SAURUS get re-rolls To Hit in Melee against that unit. This guy is so much better than the Oldblood that it's not even a joke, and for only 20 Points.

    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (B): 12 Wounds for 320 Points doesn't seem like a good deal. A Slann is 260 and appears to be a lot more helpful. The Oldblood on the top has a decent Shooting attack, and in Melee he's just as good - if not better - than the Oldblood on foot. Like most Leader, Behemoths, it wouldn't be right if the Monster wasn't better than the Hero riding it. Carnosaurs like fighting MONSTERS. I mean, they're slightly more effective at fighting Monsters than other things. Once 'this model' slays an enemy model, the Carnosaur can Run and Charge in the same turn for the rest of the game. If enemies take Battleshock around a Carnosaur, dice-off, if you win, your opponent loses D3 models. That means, your opponent, who wants to roll 1s and 2s on Battleshock, will lose models anyway, because Carnosaurs are just that scary.
    His Command Ability is giving all SAURUS HEROES within a huge bubble, +2 Attacks on one weapon. Pretty good. So, the Slann is for when you want an army-wide buff. Carnosaurs are for when you want to play HeroHammer.

    Saurus Eternity Warden: Saurus Hero statline. If he's within 2" of a SLANN, he can take Wounds for them on a 2+. Basically, he gives Slann a 2+ Ward Save, but the Warden takes the Wound if the Save is passed. In addition, Saurus Guard within 5" of him gain an extra attack, taking them to 3. He's a pretty strong force multiplier.

    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (B): For 60 Points less than the Oldblood, the Scar-Veteran is only slightly worse in combat. But, the difference is that he brought a Shield instead of a ranged weapon, and so ignores Rend -1, which potentially makes him more survivable. But, most of the Monster-hunting units in the game will pack Rend -2, and obliterate you regardless. Against Handgunners (Rend -1), the Scar-Veteran is better. Against Cannons (Rend -2) you're dead either way. As always with L/Bs, the Carnosaur is still a Carnosaur, regardless of who is riding it. So, yeah. While an Oldblood asks you to spam Heroes, the Scar-Veteran only buffs a single SAURUS unit, letting them generate extra attacks on 6s To Hit. There's nothing at all wrong with the Scar-Veteran for 60 Points less (mostly because a Carnosaur is going to Carnosaur), it's just dependent on how many Saurus Heroes you're spamming.

    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One: A Saurus Hero with a better Move. Ignores Rend -1. Generates more attacks*. Command: All SAURUS units within range can re-roll Charges and re-roll 1s To Hit. This is actually a huge buff since it affects all eligible units, not just one. He costs exactly the same as the Oldblood on foot and Sunblood. But, let's not beat around the bush, it doesn't matter. Because you and I both know you're bringing a Slann or Carnosaur for your General. When not choosing your General, and just some random Hero, the Sunblood is probably better - probably, but maybe not.
    * This method of generating attacks is complicated, but it does actually get around the Rule of One, since extra attacks aren't generating extra attacks. After the SV attacks, roll a dice, on a 4+, attack again (3 attacks, BTW). After those attacks, roll again, on a 6+, attack again. The attacks are not generating attacks, rather, a simple dice mechanic is. An SV could have nine attacks with his War-pick alone.

    Saurus Astrolith Bearer: Saurus Hero, but with only six Wounds, which means it's possible to one-shot him. Possible, because 6W isn't 5W. Like other Battle Standards, he can decide not to move for that turn. If he does so, SERAPHON WIZARDS get +1 to cast, and, while the Banner is planted, every SERAPHON around the model get re-rolls To Hit.

    Battleline
    Saurus Warriors: At 100/10, Warriors are fairly solid, largely in part to their Bravery 10 (like everything else Seraphon). 5+ Save and ignores Rend -1. Not the greatest, but they do have two attacks each (one weapon, one jaws). +1 To Hit if you've got 20, but, unlike pretty much every other unit, you get +1 weapon attack if you have 30 (max unit is 40). So, the fact that Saurus Warriors get two bonuses for more models puts them fairly high up on the list. However, any enemy unit that takes Battleshock near Warriors gets +1 because of their Banner. More Banners = More penalties. So, while it would be very nice to have 20 or 30 Warriors for re-rolls To Hit and extra attacks, +2 or +3 to your opponent's Battleshock is also very attractive.

    Other
    Saurus Guard: 100/5 is pretty expensive for 1W models. But they're actually really good in Melee, even without an Eternity Warden - but you can probably take one anyway because they have 7W. Their Standard and Musician is the same as the Warriors. They ignore Rend -1, which is always good. If a SERAPHON HERO is near them, they get +2 Bravery (Is B12 even a thing?), but no-one cares about that, because they also get +1 to their Save. Giving them 3+. So, they're twice as expensive as Saurus Warriors, but are they twice as good? ...Uhh...No. Saurus Guard are Battleline if you have all Seraphon though, so it might be worth looking at, but we'll circle back.

    Saurus Knights: Slowest cavalry in the game? At 7" Move, they're not hot, when it comes to cavalry. Alternatively, they're 120/5 with two Wounds each, actually making them really good cavalry. Just slow(er). Ignores Rend -1 like Saurus Shields do. Where Saurus really shine, is when they Charge (as with all Cavalry), if they roll a 6 To Wound, they automatically inflict a MW, in addition to the other wound that they're doing. So potentially dealing two Damage, where one of those wounds can't be saved.
    It's also important to note that this is one of those cases where +1 To Wound doesn't mean what you think it means (at least in AoS). While technically, yes, if you're hitting on a 3+, with +1, you would technically hit on a 2+, that's true. But (in AoS) that's not actually what's happening. The 2 on the dice, becomes a 3, due to +1. So, the To Wound roll, for Saurus Knights, can happen on 5+, or 4+, etc. If you can somehow find a way to give them bonuses To Wound. Again, Battleline if you have all Seraphon, and all-Cavalry armies aren't even bad...Especially if they're 120/5 with two wounds each.


    Spoiler: Skinks
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    Leaders
    Skink Starseer: 5W/4+. Not great. He can Fly, but he's only got 5" Move so it's not like it matters. He's a Wizard, so is only a 160 Point Mystic Shield caddy, but he also has Curse of Fates, which targets a unit, and you get to increase or decrease a dice roll by 1. It can be clutch when targeting a single model (like a Hero or Monster) that you need to fail or pass an Armour Save (say, against something that's about to do D6 Damage), but against units, it's not very good.
    Both you and your opponent choose a number on a dice. Reveal dice. Straight up, you get that many re-rolls until your next Hero Phase. Unless, you and your opponent have chosen the same number, in which case your opponent gets that many re-rolls. This is stupid strong, and at 160 Points, is much cheaper than 540 Point Lord Kroak. Is also not a Command Ability, so the Starseer doesn't have to be your General, and it's also far less random. Since Lord Kroak's Command Ability, actually has the potential to get you nothing at all, and maxes out at 3. While a Starpriest maxes out at 6 re-rolls, with no dice-rolling at all, just bluffing your opponent.

    Skink Starpriest: 4W/5+, even worse. Is also a WIZARD and a PRIEST, so can be double targeted by units that hate either caster-type. This probably isn't a good thing. But it increases your terrain choices, if you're in a meta that tells you to bring a terrain piece for your army. Per turn, pick a unit within range, when they roll 6s To Wound, they deal double Damage. Solid. Pair with Saurus Knights or Salamanders. As a Wizard, he's a 100 Point Mystic Shield caddy, that can also cast Summon Starlight; Pick a unit, if the unit is SERAPHON, enemy units have -1 To Hit against it, if it's anything else (i.e; an enemy unit), that unit has -1 To Hit against whatever they attack. In addition, if the unit is CHAOS DAEMONS, they also take D3 MWs. Fairly strong force multiplier at only 100 Points, but at 4 Wounds, don't expect it to last long unless you have other, juicier targets.

    Skink Priest: His Priest power is, on a 4+, pick a SERAPHON unit, that unit gets re-rolls to Run, Charge and Saves. If you have the right cloak on, the Power affects all Seraphon units within 8" instead of just one. Very strong. His other cloak just lets him Fly, which is nowhere near as good.

    Engine of the Gods (B): This one has all the keywords, except the most important one; Wizard. This is arguably one of the most broken models in the game, and is actually banned in more than a few metas. The Stegadon is still a Stegadon (see Behemoths), and it's just as killy as normal. But what makes the model broken, is its random table. Roll 3D6b2 (or 4d6b3 if there's a SLANN sitting next it), and do a thing. None of the results are particularly bothersome, except #1-2, which is nearly always 'the bad result' in any table you roll on, and 14-17 lets you Summon a unit - but in Matched Play, Summoning costs points so likely does nothing - but 18...18, gives you another turn after the one you're taking right now. If you have a Skink Starseer or Lord Kroak (who is a Slann, so double force multiply), if you do your order of operations right, you can potentially re-roll into 18s if you feel like it. That one result, while actually kind of hard to get, can break the game if you just manage to pull it off once, or even twice.
    If using 'Initiative', you can't get two turns in a row, twice in a row.

    Spoiler: Initiative Theory
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    Turn 1. Player A goes second.
    Turn 2. Player A wins initiative, getting two turns in a row. Player B gets his turn.
    Turn 3. Even if Player A wins Initiative again, he didn't get two turns in a row.


    An Engine's ability to go twice, is based solely on the player's ability to roll triple 6s.
    For players reading this Guide for fighting Seraphon 'Know Your Enemy'-style, if you go first, and there's an Engine on the table, shoot it first. Once you've dealt 5+ Wounds to it, it can no longer roll 18s on its table. Rolling 18s is likely the only reason that your opponent has taken it, and removing that ability, shafts it. It's still a Stegadon, sure. But it's no longer broken. If you go second...You can't really stop your opponent rolling an 18 on Turn 1, can you?

    Battleline
    Skinks: 80/10 is good until you see their 6+ Save. Just take heaps, they've still got B10. They also ignore Rend -1, just in case. If you have 20 models, they get +1 To Hit in the shooting phase, if you have 30, +2. Again, another sweet Seraphon case where you get two bonuses instead of just one if you have even MOAR models. In Melee, Skinks are stupid. If your opponent doesn't initiate on them first, when it's your turn to initiate, choose the Skinks, and move them 8" away. Your opponent, now not within 3" of the Skinks, has just lost a combat step. Skinks do not belong in Melee and have a rule that actively prevents them from being in combat, and another rule which hugely benefits their shooting. So, if you've built your Skinks with Clubs instead of Javelins or Boltspitters...WRONG!

    Other
    Chameleon Skinks: The best Seraphon unit, and arguably one of the best units in the game. 120/5 isn't a lot for what they can do, even if they do only have one Wound. They don't setup. Instead, you can set them up anywhere. Not within 9", not within 5". Anywhere. The only limitation to Chameleon Skinks is the 3" limitation that's part of the game anyway. If the entire unit is in terrain, their Save becomes 3+. In your Hero Phase, you can remove Chameleon Skinks from the board, even if they're in combat. You can then make them reappear anywhere you want in your next turns. Repeat ad nauseum. This trick is great for removing your Skinks from combat, and just have them reappear 3" next to the same unit they were in combat with, and then riddle them with Dartpipes. If you roll a '6' To Hit with a Dartpipe, it does 2 Damage, or 3 Damage against CHAOS DAEMONS.
    Show up anywhere. Shoot. Disappear. Show up anywhere. Shoot. Disappear. That's four turns. On the fifth and last turn, just show up on an Objective and get points. If the Skinks can do damage on your last turn, that's a bonus.

    Skink Handlers: Only Lord Kroak knows why, but Skink Handlers aren't built into their Artillery like War Machine Crew. You have to pay points if you want your Salamanders and Razordons to be slightly better. That said, your Artillery 'crew' is completely optional, and if you don't want to pay the points, you don't have to. So that's...Something.

    Kroxigor: 180/3 is kind of bad. But they do have 4W/4+. Kroxigor get to re-roll 1s To Wound if they're within 3" of SKINKS. So, while they aren't technically Skinks, they're in this part of the Guide for ease-of-use. Kroxigor are fairly decent in combat. They're faster than Saurus Knights for Lord Kroak knows what reason, but, they do have 8" Move, while the cavalry only have 7".

    Terradon Riders: Standard Flying Cavalry for 140/3, which is fine, 'cause they have 3 Wounds apiece. What's not fine, is that they only have a 5+ Save, and will fall out of the sky pretty fast unless you bring more than the minimum. Their main use is for their ability to drop rocks, in which case any unit they move over, they can roll a number of dice equal to the number of models in the unit. 4+ To Hit, do D3 Mortal Wounds apiece. Pretty good. Unfortunately, as with all Fliers that do damage in the Movement phase, the main limitation to the attack is that you have to have somewhere to finish your move...That's more than 3" away from enemy models. It's tough, but at 14", Terradons are some of the faster Fliers in the game, unfortunately, as a unit, and not a single model (like a Phoenix), their footprint is actually quite large, especially if you've gone for more than the minimum.
    4+, D3 Wounds, is very strong. But a clever opponent, just wont let you pull it off. In addition, post-TGH, you're probably playing with base-to-base rules instead of 'from the model', which is a rule that sucks. In that case, Swooping Dive does nothing.

    Ripperdactyl Riders: Flying Cav. again. Except these are your melee ones. Once again, Swooping Dive does basically nothing if you're playing with TGH, which you are, because you're reading this. Ripperdactyls ignore Rend -1, which makes them more survivable than Terradons. In Melee, Ripperdactyls (not the riders) that Hit, generate an extra attack. Post-TGH, attacks do not generate extra attacks. The rules have been changed. Ripperdactyls are even the specific example. Ripperdactyls also come with a neat debuff, that gives the Ripperdactyles 3 Attacks instead of 1 if the target unit is within 2" of a Blot Toad.

    Artillery
    Salamanders: Salamanders are extremely short ranged Cannons. They make up for their short range by Wounding on 3s instead of 4s, but Cannons have two attacks. But Salamanders are 60 Points, and Cannons are 180. So you get what you pay for. If a unit takes any Wounds from Salamanders' shooting attack, on a 4+, that unit immediately takes another D3 MWs. Suddenly, 60 Points per model seems a bit cheap. If you take Salamanders in units (which you can), suddenly, 180/3 (the comparative cost to a Cannon) doesn't seem bad at all, in fact it's way undercosted. Salamanders that hang around Skink Handlers (40/3) have an extra 4" range (woo!). Remembering only that you don't need multiple sets of Skinks for multiple sets of Salamanders. Skink Handlers will affect all models within 3". Just like how one Engineer can service 3 Cannons at the same time...Somehow.

    Razordons: The Objective defenders - they even have a better Save than Salamanders. A Razordon's shooting attack is very short ranged, but, they have the potential for a lot of attacks (especially when taken in multiples). Within 6", their Shooting attack gains Rend -1 (remembering that you can shoot while in combat), and, in addition, when they get Charged, they can 'Overwatch' and make a free shooting attack. Fairly strong unit that also has the potential to be totally useless if your opponent knows what Razordons do. Skink Handlers make Razordons re-roll 1s To Hit.

    Behemoths
    Troglodon: The Troglodon can attempt to Unbind like a Wizard, even though he isn't one. This is handy because your Behemoth doesn't need to be babysat by a Wizard to throw off Fireballs. That's...About it. It has a shooting attack that if it deals Wounds, it gets +3" to Charge move if it Charges the unit it shot at. But it doesn't have a lot of attacks and has no Rend. The Troglodon is not a strong Behemoth at all. But, at only 200 Points, it's one of the cheaper ones in the game. But, also importantly, the Troglodon isn't even ridden by a HERO. Which is probably why it isn't a Leader, even though it really, really looks like it should be one. So...Whatever. Pass.

    Bastilodon: Yeah, buddy! 8 Wounds, 3+ Save. Doesn't sound like a lot for a Behemoth. But Bastiladons ignore Rend. Not -1, not -2. All of it. In addition, they have a 4++ against MWs which makes them stupid strong. Bastilodons also have a reasonably ranged shooting attack, with 2D6 shots, Rend -1 and 2 Damage per shot, doing extra damage to CHAOS DAEMONS, because Seraphon gonna Seraphon. In each Combat Phase, pick up to 6 units, nominate each unit a number, and roll 12 dice, each dice that corresponds to the number-marked unit, deals a MW to that unit. That is...Ridiculously strong. Since it happens in your opponent's turn as well. Of course, it gets less good when you have less than six units around your Bastiladon, but, either way, any unit you want to kill only has a 16% chance to get hit anyway. Anyway, Novas that deal Mortal Wounds are always going to be strong. Especially on such a resilient model that can just plough down the board without worrying overmuch about being shot at because ignore Rend and 4++ against MWs. So it's not like it even cares about being Fireballed. Make you sure cast Mystic Shield on it, for a 2+ Save that ignores Rend. Make sure you have a Slann around to make saves re-rollable.

    Stegadon: As Monsters go, it's pretty strong - but the Bastiladon is better. The Stegadon is best used as a force multiplier for SKINKS. Skinks within 5" of a Stegadon can re-roll Battleshock (aren't Skinks Bravery 10? Why are they even taking Battleshock?), and Skinks within range can move an extra D6" in the Hero phase and that unit can re-roll 1s to hit until your next Hero phase. How much do you love Skinks? If you're building a full Skink army (+/- a Slann, who benefits from having Skinks around...Though, fair's fair, if you have a Slann, and didn't build your Stegadon as an Engine of the Gods, you're doing it wrong), then Stegadons are where it's at. If you've got more Saurus than you know what to do with, and need something that hits like a truck, you're better off with a Bastilodon or Carnosaur...Although if you're hard into Saurus, you should already have a Carnosaur.


    Spoiler: Warscroll Battalions
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    Grand Alliance: Order
    Bloodclaw Starhost
    Oldblood, 3 Saurus Heroes, 3+ units of Saurus. All of the Saurus not-Heroes, get an extra bite attack. In addition, all Heroes from this Battalion within 20" of the Oldblood can use their Command Abilities even when they aren't the General. This is one of the places where Seraphon Allegiance is nice to have; Saurus Knights and Saurus Guard become Battleline which makes this Formation really, really good. If you're going hard into Saurus, there really isn't a reason not to pay the 100 Points for this Battalion. Having four Saurus Heroes all using their Command Abilities at the same time is well worth it, especially since all Saurus Heroes come stock with 7 Wounds and can't be one-shotted. The only Hero you should avoid is the Eternity Warden, since it doesn't have a Command Ability (and has a dedicated Formation to himself anyway).

    Heavenswatch Starhost
    Skink Starseer and two other Skink Heroes - including Troglodons, which aren't even HEROES - and then pretty much any Skink units you want. The Starseer lets a unit re-roll 1s To Hit, and Starseers are horrendous lynchpin Heroes since they only have 5 Wounds. But, that's not why you take this Battalion. In your Hero phase, each MONSTER from this Battalion heals a Wound. It doesn't sound like much, but if you have three or even four Monsters per turn regenerating a Wound each, it starts to add up. The Skink Heroes in this Formation are taxes, and what you're really doing with this Formation is spamming Monsters - that just happen to have Skinks on them.

    Order Battletome: Seraphon
    Sunclaw Starhost
    Sunblood and Saurus Warriors. The Warriors get an extra bite attack, and gain Rend -1 on their Melee weapons. 80 Points is a lot for such a minor bonus. But smoke 'em if you've got 'em, I guess.

    Eternal Starhost
    Eternity Warden and Saurus Guard. Again, having Seraphon Allegiance is nice because the Guard become Battleline. All Guard within range of the Warden get +1 to Saves. In addition, if the Guard don't Move or Charge in your turn, their Polearms do D3 Damage instead of 1. The second part doesn't require the Warden to be alive, the Warden just helps the Guard to survive when they get Charged or are in otherwise protracted combats. Once the second turn of combat hits, the Guard become powerhouses as they start annihilating units left and right. Remembering that the Warden already has an ability that gives Guard an extra attack just by standing around. So your Saurus Guard have three attacks each, and on the second turn of combat, they do D3 Damage each. Brutal. Remembering that a Warden works great as a lynchpin Hero since he has 7 Wounds and doesn't actually suck.

    Firelance Starhost
    Scar-Veteran and Saurus Knights. Again, Knights become Battleline when you try hard. Knights get +3" to their Charge range, and on 6s, do two Mortal Wounds instead of 1. Not bad for 60 Points. It would be a lot better if you could somehow improve the Knights' armour save, and you should definitely look into it.

    Shadowstrike Starhost
    The Battalion that makes everyone hate Seraphon, and you should abuse it if you can. A Skink Starpriest or Priest, Skinks or Chameleon Skinks, and Terradons or Ripperdactyls. If you actually bother to setup this Battalion (don't), they can 'Scout' 2D6", but no-one cares about that. Flying units in the Battalion (remembering that a Skink Priest can Fly with the right wrong Cloak) can choose not to Deploy, but instead setup anywhere outside 3" on Turn 1...And then Charge. Remembering that Chameleon Skinks don't need to Fly, since they do the same thing anyway. Turn 1, Chameleon Skinks and Ripperdactyls show up. Chameleon Skinks riddle whatever unit you want with Darts, and Ripperdactyls Charge and make a mess out of anything. Turn 1, dominate, and for 120 Points this Battalion is absolutely worth it, and you should definitely do it if you hate everyone and you want everyone to hate you. The only thing 'wrong' with this Formation - if you do it right - is that it doesn't have any Battleline in it, but I'm sure you can work it out.

    Thunderquake Starhost
    So you want to play Monsters, but don't want to pay Skink taxes? Fine. Be that way. Engine of the Gods or Troglodon, x2 Stegadons or Bastiladons, and a tax unit of not-really-Skinks. Like the Heavenswatch, each Monster in the Battalion heals a Wound per Hero phase, but heals D3 instead, if within range of a SLANN. Which you should definitely do if you have the points. Which you do, because this Battalion has 3 Behemoths and is therefore unplayable in low points games anyway. Each Hero phase, pick a thing; Re-roll To Hit and Charges, or re-roll To Wound and Saves. Bastiladons are laughing forever as now they can't be killed; Re-rollable 3+ Save (remember your Mystic Shields because who needs friends?) that ignores Rend, and 4++ against MWs, and regenerating 1/D3 Wounds per turn. Do you like Dinosaurs Celestial Daemons?

    Starbeast Constellation
    Everything. Which basically makes it unplayable. So don't worry about it.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2016-07-29 at 07:58 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Went up against a Celestial Hurricanum today. That thing is insane.
    In related news...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Dwarfs. With a Celestial Hurricanum.

    I got my first 'GFY' today playing AoS, when I paired my Celestial Hurricanum (Mystic Shield) with a (proxied) Bastilodon, because I wanted to see if the combo worked before I put money down. In no uncertain terms, I was told that if I have a Celestial Hurricanum and Bastilodon in the same army, I will not get games. I can have one or the other, but not both.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    You know, my friends all say that Sigmar is better because there are no broken combos, so you can play whatever you want, unlike 40k, where it's hard to get games as Eldar.

    Bull hockey.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    In related news...I got my first 'GFY' today playing AoS, when I paired my Celestial Hurricanum (Mystic Shield) with a (proxied) Bastilodon, because I wanted to see if the combo worked before I put money down. In no uncertain terms, I was told that if I have a Celestial Hurricanum and Bastilodon in the same army, I will not get games. I can have one or the other, but not both.
    I can believe it. I haven't played against a Bastilodon yet, but two hard to kill things with long range, high damage attacks would be enough to make me tear out my hair. The Hurricanum just insta-deleting Be'lakor because he had the gall to be within 28" put that thing on my short list.

    I picked up my Starter Set yesterday, along with a box of Judicators and a Paladin box - serving the multi-purpose of building Protectors, giving Grandhammers to the Liberator squads, and putting a Starsoul Mace in the Retributors. Also picking up a Start Collecting Stormcast tomorrow. A nice cheap way to build the core of the army, will round it out with Decimators at some point, some characters, and probably a unit of Fulminators later. Dunno if I'll go into adding more Order on just yet, I want to stick to the Lightning Lads for a while.

    The one question I have, though - it's possible to turn the regular Liberators into Crossbow Judicators using the leftovers from making the Bow dudes. This would let me get a head start on building my Skyborne Slayers, but I'm still wary of the the Crossbow's usefulness. Though, I'm also not sure I need 3 units of Liberators instead of 2 plus 2 Judicators. Do you think I should go ahead with the conversion or just get another box of Bows?

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I can believe it. I haven't played against a Bastilodon yet, but two hard to kill things with long range, high damage attacks would be enough to make me tear out my hair. The Hurricanum just insta-deleting Be'lakor because he had the gall to be within 28" put that thing on my short list.
    The thing is, I wasn't even casting Comet, I was casting Mystic Shield.
    I already knew that Slann+Bastilodon is fair broke, because I can read, but it roughly amounts to the same thing with a CH. You trade your eggs in one basket on the Bastilodon, for a dual threat.

    but I'm still wary of the the Crossbow's usefulness.
    As has been drilled into me to death with Thunderers - who suck - check range. Unless you're opponent has first turn and is either very fast, or Infiltrating/Deep Striking, short-ranged weapons just aren't that good if you happen to go first.

    Start 24" away from enemy units. If you're going first, your opponent hasn't had their Movement phase yet, and hasn't Infiltrated yet. Move however far you can move, add the range of your weapon, if your Move+Range doesn't equal 24" or slightly over, your unit does nothing for the first turn. If you're playing an opposing gunline, it's highly likely that your opponent wont move forwards, and may not Infiltrate 'til later, and continue to pound you.

    If you go second, <24" threat range becomes less detrimental, but it's still annoying.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2016-07-30 at 10:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    The thing is, I wasn't even casting Comet, I was casting Mystic Shield.
    Nah it's not comet, it's Storm of Shemtek. If you can't chunk it down to the lower end of wounds, you just take a dumb amount of MWs as soon as it has range. Just crazy.


    As has been drilled into me to death with Thunderers - who suck - check range. Unless you're opponent has first turn and is either very fast, or Infiltrating/Deep Striking, short-ranged weapons just aren't that good if you happen to go first.

    Start 24" away from enemy units. If you're going first, your opponent hasn't had their Movement phase yet, and hasn't Infiltrated yet. Move however far you can move, add the range of your weapon, if your Move+Range doesn't equal 24" or slightly over, your unit does nothing for the first turn. If you're playing an opposing gunline, it's highly likely that your opponent wont move forwards, and may not Infiltrate 'til later, and continue to pound you.

    If you go second, <24" threat range becomes less detrimental, but it's still annoying.
    Except I'd probably be using them in the Skyborne Slayers, where they do have Deep Strike. So... Potentially useful I think. Will probably proxy them a bit to test.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Guide to the Order Grand Alliance
    Part III; Fyreslayers

    Disclaimer; These Guides will not feature any references to Compendium/Legacy units. You can't buy them anymore, so it would be disingenuous to recommend them in any capacity. If you've already got some, then you probably already know how good they are.

    Spoiler: Leaders
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    Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (B): 320 Points for a Leader, Behemoth that sucks. It's breath weapon gets worse the less models that are in the target unit, which means it doesn't 'clean up' when it gets to chaff, and it's tail attack does the same thing. When it takes damage, you get to do Mortal Wounds against enemies that dealt the wound on a dice roll. But what sucks, is that friendly units also take damage. So it's a Monster that hurts your own team. If you think that this model isn't trash, I've got news for you. Pick a unit in combat with the Magmadroth and subtract D3 Bravery. That's alright. The Weapon-breaker ability is great because it debuffs HEROES and MONSTERS, and those are generally the more scary things that you'll have to deal with. Command Ability: All FYRESLAYER units within a large range re-roll 1s on saves. If you actually care about Fyreslayers, you'll probably want his Command Ability, unfortunately, the Magmadroth is so trash that it's hardly worth it...And we've still got more.

    Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (B): Magmadroths. Are. Trash. At least this one is 100 Points less than the above. This is your PRIEST for Fyreslayers, and he hands out a buff that targets a single FYRESLAYER unit giving them re-rolls To Wound. Once per game, he buffs all Fyreslayers within range. Magmadroth is trash. Buffs aren't that good. At least for a Behemoth, this one barely scrapes over 200 Points.

    Auric Runeson on Magmadroth (B): Still with the trash Magmadroth. The guy on top isn't great, either. The Runeson's ranged weapon does D3+2 Damage to MONSTERS, but it's only one Attack with only Rend -1. So, it's great when it works. Problem is, it wont work. The one bonus the Runeson gets worth talking about, is that he gets to re-roll 1s To Hit against one unit per turn. So maybe your Javelin will actually hit a Monster. Command Ability: All FYRESLAYERS within range roll 3D6b2" for Charges. Decent. But saves from the Runefather are probably more important.
    Joke Rule That Sucks: These rules were supposed to go away because everyone hated them. Evidently not. The same unit that you re-roll 1s To Hit against, takes +1 to their Battleshock tests at the end of the turn, if you insult your opponent's models. While the entry says that you're insulting your opponent's models, there is no way in Hell that your opponent isn't going to take it as an insult to themselves. This rule is stupid. First, because 'joke rules' shouldn't exist in the first place, but, more importantly, this rule actively gives incentives to the player when they get mad and/or insults the opponent's models. This rule is so anti-social I need to punch whoever wrote the entry in the head. Don't they understand anything?

    Point is, Magmadroths suck.

    Auric Runefather: 6W/4+, not bad. But not having 7 Wounds puts it on the back foot immediately. Same deal as the one on the Magmadroth, but doesn't have a Magmadroth, so is therefore 200 Points less. Command Ability: FYRESLAYERS within range can pile-in 5" instead of 3". Not great. But, the other bonus is that he gains a 4+ Ward Save, which actually means a Fyreslayer within 3" takes the Wound instead. This isn't bad, per se. But having it tied to Generalship is pretty crappy, because you aren't interested in 5" pile-in moves because you're already in combat, and maybe you want to use Inspiring Presence that turn, so you don't get your 4++. '4+ bodyguard save' should have been tied into the base abilities, like a Seraphon Eternity Warden.

    Auric Runesmiter: 5W/4+ - getting into 'bad' territory now. His PRIEST ability is handing out the same re-roll To Wound buff, but he can't buff everything once per game like the one on the Magmadroth. Instead, he gets Magmic Tunnelling, which is actually useful. The Runesmither and one other FYRESLAYER unit, can Infiltrate (9"). As Duardin, Fyreslayers have the grand Move total of 4", with no Flying units, and, even more suckier, none of their units come with Banners or Musicians to give better Run moves or double Movement. If you want to play 'just Fyreslayers' (you're in for a bad time), an Auric Runesmiter (or two, or three) is invaluable. Unfortunately, Runesmiters come in the Magmadroth kit and that may as well be money down the drain.

    Auric Runeson: Again, insulting your opponent's models gives you bonuses. This can't possibly end badly. The Runeson has the same Javelin attack that kills MONSTERS, but, without the 12" Move of the Magmadroth, the 12" Range on the Javelin isn't so hot...I think I just implied you might actually want a Magmadroth...I feel dirty...Fortunately, if you're not on a Magmadroth, your Command Ability is better; All FYRESLAYER units within range can re-roll To Wound against models with 3 or more Wounds on their profile. So, a Runeson - not on Magmadroth - is how you actually kill Monsters.

    Grimwrath Berzerker: And we're back to 6W. Has a 6++, with +1 for each enemy unit within 3" (i.e. in combat range). If he dies in the combat phase, on a 2+, he doesn't die 'til the end of said phase, which means that if he hasn't activated yet, he can still activate and make attacks, even if he's technically dead. After the Berzerker makes his attacks, roll a dice. If you get less than the number of Wounds you dealt, attack again. At 100 Points, with a natural Ward Save, a Berzerker isn't even terrible.

    Auric Runemaster: What. The. Hell. Whoever wrote Fyreslayers needs a punch in the head. I'm not even kidding. After Deployment, your opponent gets to pick one of their units. Their unit re-rolls 1s To Wound. WHY AM I TAKING MODELS THAT BUFF MY OPPONENT!? THIS MAKES NO SENSE! I HATE EVERYTHING! But it's not all bad, right? If the Runemaster gets within 10" of that unit, all FYRESLAYERS get +1 Attack (on any weapon) against that unit. But, say, if your opponent shoots the Runemaster, long before he ever gets anywhere near 10", you get nothing. His PRIEST power deals damage to models in terrain. Nobody cares.
    I checked the App to make sure there were no discrepancies with the printed version and the (always-updated) digital version. Nope. The Runemaster actually is that terrible. Carry on.

    Battlesmith: Your TOTEM. FYRESLAYERS around the Icon automatically pass Battleshock and can re-roll Saves. More importantly, he doesn't have to not-Move to do it, either. This is a lynchpin Hero of the highest order. Unfortunately, only has 5 Wounds and is a ripe target for a Cannon or getting D6 Mortal Wounds thrown at. If the Battlesmith dies, a Fyreslayer unit within range may choose not to move for the rest of game, and they get re-rolls To Hit and To Wound. So, if your Battlesmith is going to die (and your opponent has no reason not to focus him down immediately), make sure he dies on an Objective, so the the unit you choose not to move for the rest of the game, is actually doing something useful. Noting that choosing not to move for the rest of the game is entirely optional, just that you wont be able to take it back.

    If you're going 'Grand Alliance' mode (and there's no reason that you shouldn't), none of these Leaders are particularly helpful to other armies. All of their buffs only affect Fyreslayer units.


    Spoiler: Units
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    Battleline
    Vulkite Berzerkers: 80/5 160/10 isn't good. 5+ Save, 6+ Ward. Their Ward save gets better if you have 10 or more models, and better again if you have 20. So, a full unit is looking like 400/25, which definitely isn't worth it, even if they do have a 4+ Ward. Overall, not a strong unit.

    Other
    Auric Hearthguard: 100/5 is pretty bad. Fortunately, they're not bad as far as Fyreslayers go (i.e; Everything sucks). Hearthguard have 'Handguns' with 2 shots each, and, if they do damage to a MONSTER, on a 5+, said Monster halves its Move and -1 To Hit. In addition, Hearthguard get +1 To Hit (with all their weapons) if they're standing next to a FYRESLAYER HERO. Since Hearthguard are the only Fyreslayers with a ranged weapon with more than a 9" range, they make perfect additions to a Runesmiter and using Magmic Tunnelling. By standing around the Runesmiter, they'll get +1 To Hit, unfortunately, Runesmiters don't show up 'til the Movement phase - after the Hero phase - which means on the turn you arrive, the Runesmiter will have missed his Hero Phase, and you wont get re-rolls To Wound until next turn.
    If you have Fyreslayer Allegiance (and there really isn't a reason why you should...), then Hearthguard are Battleline. It's probably a better choice than Vulkites.

    Hearthguard Berzerkers: Only barely better than the Vulkite Berzerkers. Fortunately, they aren't that much more expensive. They come with a 6+ Ward, that turns into 4+ if they stand next to a FYRESLAYER HERO. So grab your Battlesmith, and give your Berzerkers a 5+rr/4++ to make them last longer. To get your 4++ on Vulkites is going to cost you 320 Points. To get your Berzkers to 4++, you'll probably spend the same amount of points, but you wont suck. Everytime a Berzerker hits with its Poleaxe, on a 3+, the target takes a Mortal Wound, in addition to the Wound it may take from the attack. The Broadaxe Wounds better, has -1 Rend and does two damage. But, on a 3+, the Poleaxe automatically wounds and allows no save, and may do another Damage. It's not even close.
    If you have Fyreslayer Allegiance (and there really isn't a reason why you should...), then Hearthguard are Battleline. It's probably a better choice than Vulkites.


    Spoiler: Warscroll Battalions
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    Grand Alliance: Order
    Lords of the Lodge
    Magmadroth (), Runemaster and Battlesmith, and Hearthguard Berzerkers. Once per battle, add the number of HEROES from this Battalion on the board to your Initiative roll. If you don't use Initiative ('cause it sucks), this does nothing. If the Berzerkers are within 6" from a Hero form this Battalion, they can pile-in and attack twice. Not a great bonus. Especially 'cause Magmadroths are not good and Runemasters are bad with a capital AWFUL.

    Forge Brethren
    Auric Runesmiter (that's the good one, with the Tunneling) and three units of Hearthguard (those are the good ones, that love Tunneling). 6s to Wound in the combat phase by this Battalion subtract 1 from the save roll for the attack. This is not Rend, it will work against a Bastilodon. In your Hero Phase (remember, you don't get one on the turn you Tunnel), one unit from this Battalion within range of the Runesmiter gets +1 to Saves. This is a fairly strong formation because there are no taxes (unless you put the Runesmiter on a Magmadroth for no reason). If you take two or three of these Battalions, you'll be fine, as Fyreslayer Allegiance will make the Hearthguard Battleline.

    Order Battletome: Fyreslayers
    This Battletome contains both Battalions from the Grand Alliance book because new Formations for a dedicated book are hard to come up with.

    Warrior Kinband
    Runeson and three units of Vulkite Berzkers. If the Berzerkers have Throwing Axes, they can throw them twice. They can also pile-in an extra D3". For 40 Points, maybe that's not even worth paying. Runesons - like everything else - really want to be hanging out with Hearthguard.

    Grand Fyrd
    All three other Battalions, but two Warrior Kinbands just to cover bases. This Battalion sucks. Because it's bonus is so nebulous and stupid that it's not even worth playing.
    Declare something that you want to happen during the battle. Your opponent gets to decide if its acceptable. If it's not acceptable, you have to declare something bigger. If you fail your 'oath', a Major Victory counts as Minor, and a Minor Victory counts as a Draw. Your opponent gets to decide whether or not you win, before the battle even starts. This is so stupid that if I wasn't already angry at the writers of Fyreslayers, I might threaten to punch them in the head.


    TL;DR
    I hate Fyreslayers. I hate them. They have no good models for Generals, their Behemoths are terrible, they have bad Move, which isn't helped by next-to-no ranged weapons. Bad Saves, which is made up for by conditional Ward Saves, their standard Battleline unit is basically terrible (bad Move, bad Saves), and to get their Allegiance Battleline units, you'd have to have Fyreslayer Allegiance, which is just a terrible idea. Everytime you see a Magmadroth, take five seconds to look at a Seraphon Carnosaur, instead. Do you like Duardin? Do you like Dinosaurs Celestial Daemons? Great. Completely ignore the Magmadroth, and invest in a Carnosaur and/or Bastilodon instead. You wont be completely disappointed when your Carnosaur takes a wound, and then deals extra MWs to the friendly models around it, because Carnosaurs aren't terrible and don't have that stupid rule.

    Take one Runesmiter, take a unit of Hearthguard (maybe a Battlesmith). You've done it. You have all the Fyreslayer models you need. You're done. Ally them into a real Order army. They probably wont perform as well as other models (e.g; Chameleon Skinks, Shadow Warriors), but if you really, really - no, really - want Fyreslayer models, those are the usable ones.

    Sorry kids, but the contempt I feel for Fyreslayers is huge. When it comes to the Order Grand Alliance, I can't put them anywhere except on the bottom rung.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Fyreslayers are the bad times
    Yeah, this gels with what one of our players up here experienced, back when matched played wasn't a thing. We calculated it out and even though he took extra points compared to his opponent, he still got rolled every single match. They're really just that terrible.

    ION: Had my first game of AoS, a small skirmish between a skaven warlord + 10x Stormvermin vs some high elf CC hero and 10x Swordmasters. Seemed fun enough. Skaven warlord's command ability is fairly rough, though I strongly suspect that he's going to be a red smear before he gets to use it in larger games. I failed my charge, but then showed why I play daemons with 6/10 5+ saves and my warlord gave the HE dude a thorough drubbing.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    [Fyreslayers]'re really just that terrible.
    Like, I look at the Dispossessed Duardin, and I see the following;
    1. Decent armour saves
    2. Proper ranged attacks
    3. Battleshock resistance, and
    4. Ability to Unbind spells

    #4 is kind of crap on Fyreslayers. Your Dwarfs. No, you're DUARDIN PRIESTS. Fyreslayers have Dwarf. Priests. That can't even Unbind. Worst. Dwarfs. Ever.
    But, between 4+ or 5+rr Armour Saves and Battleshock resistance, Dispossessed have the same 4" Move as Fyreslayers, but with actual Saves and no Battleshock, by the time Dispossesed make it into Melee, they'll still have models left to fight. That's not even including the fact that Dispossesed get Musicians that give auto-4" on Run moves. So, your Melee unit has no ranged weapons? Cool. It moves 8" this turn, no downside.

    You nailed it.

    Fyreslayers are the bad times.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    So I bought 2000+ points of Stormcast for 2 lists, both have the same core (Skyborne Slayers) but with a bit of flexibility for the time being.

    Spoiler: Teleportin
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    Skyborne Slayers - 140
    Lord Celestant - 100
    Judicators (Bows) - 160
    Judicators (Crossbows) - 160
    Liberators (Shields, Grandhammer on Prime) - 100
    Liberators (Shields, Grandhammer on Prime) - 100
    Protectors (Starsoul Maces) - 200
    Decimators (Starsoul Maces) - 200

    Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (Tempest Hammer, Shield) - 220
    Knight-Vexillor - 200
    Retributors (Starsoul Maces) - 220
    Prosecutors with Javelins (Trident on Prime) - 80
    Prosecutors with Javelins (Trident on Prime) - 80

    1960/2000


    Spoiler: Dragons
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    Skyborne Slayers - 140
    Lord Celestant - 100
    Judicators (Bows) - 160
    Judicators (Crossbows) - 160
    Liberators (Shields, Grandhammer on Prime) - 100
    Liberators (Shields, Grandhammer on Prime) - 100
    Protectors (Starsoul Maces) - 200
    Decimators (Starsoul Maces) - 200

    Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (Tempest Hammer, Shield) - 220
    Knight-Azyros - 100
    Fulminators - 240
    Prosecutors with Javelins (Trident on Prime) - 80
    Prosecutors with Javelins (Trident on Prime) - 80

    Lord-Relictor because points left over - 80

    1960/2000


    First list is teleport shenanigans with a fast General and the Prosecutors, second is slightly less teleporting but a strong, fast frontline unit in the Fulminators with Azyros supporting for the rerolls. Will probably replace the Relictor in the second list with a Venator once I get him.

    And luckily, it all came out to exactly the same amount as I sold the Daemons for. Win/win.

    Edit: Should the Protectors and Decimators take Starsoul Maces? Free MWs is great, but their weapon profiles are also pretty good all things considered - both have the potential to put out way more than d3 wounds on a per-model basis if they engage the right target.
    Last edited by Requizen; 2016-08-01 at 04:00 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    1960/2000
    Gryph-Hounds are 40 Points.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Gryph-Hounds are 40 Points.
    And once I buy the Lord-Celestant box, he will make a special appearance in pretty much every list.

    And I will name him Spot.

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    So, after reading the guide on the Seraphon, I started looking at the pretty dinosaurs on the GW site. I like how the knights look, and think the carnosaurs are quite cool. Then I noticed that the Start Collecting box costs the same as a carnosaur, so I started thinking about what you could do with a couple of those boxes.

    After adding the giant death laser this is the list I came up with.

    Spoiler
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    Old-Blood on Carnosaur--320
    Astrolith Bearer--160
    Starpriest--100
    Starpriest--100


    Warriors x10--100
    Warriors x10--100

    Bastilodon--300

    Salamander x2--120

    Firespear Battalion--60
    Scar-veteran on Carnosaur--260
    Knights x5--120
    Knights x5--120
    Knights x5--120

    Total: 1980


    What does the playground think?
    Last edited by Yaktan; 2016-08-03 at 10:06 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaktan View Post
    So, after reading the guide on the Seraphon, I started looking at the pretty dinosaurs on the GW site. I like how the knights look, and think the carnosaurs are quite cool. Then I noticed that the Start Collecting box costs the same as a carnosaur, so I started thinking about what you could do with a couple of those boxes.

    After adding the giant death laser this is the list I came up with.

    Spoiler
    Show


    Old-Blood on Carnosaur--320
    Astrolith Bearer--160
    Starpriest--100
    Starpriest--100


    Warriors x10--100
    Warriors x10--100

    Bastilodon--300

    Salamander x2--120

    Firespear Battalion--60
    Scar-veteran on Carnosaur--260
    Knights x5--120
    Knights x5--120
    Knights x5--120

    Total: 1980


    What does the playground think?
    I like it. That was pretty close to what I was going between when I was deciding SE or Seraphon, 2 Start Collecting sets are just so valuable. Even if you don't even use the Warriors, you're getting so many free Knights.

    Since you are Seraphon Allegiance and therefore Knights are Battleline, plus the Astrolith Bearer boosting casting, you could also put the Warriors off the list and have 220 points of Summoning, bringing them on the board if you need them or having something else. Convert the remaining Knight into a Scar Veteran on Cold One, and you can also Summon him, so there's a bit of flexibility afforded based on what you need.

    Otherwise it looks solid! The Seraphon SC is an extremely good box for new players.

  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I talked smack about Fyreslayers sucking. So the Blackshirt challenged me to a game, 'cause he has Fyreslayers.
    He was very quick to add in 'No Compendium units', so...Whatever.

    Spoiler: Good Duardin That Don't Suck
    Show
    Dispossessed
    Warden King - 120 Points
    Runelord - 80 Points

    Warriors (x30); Axes and Shields, Runic Icon - 300 Points
    Longbeards (x10); Axes and Shields - 140 Points
    Longbeards (x10); Axes and Shields - 140 Points

    Ironbreakers (x10); Drakefire Pistol and Cinderblast Bomb - 160 Points

    Ironweld Arsenal
    Cogsmith - 100 Points
    Cannon - 180 Points
    Cannon - 180 Points
    Steam Tank - 300 Points

    Stormcast Eternals
    Knight-Azyros - 100 Points

    Swifthawk Agents
    Shadow Warriors (x10) - 200 Points

    Total: 2000 Points
    x4 Leaders
    x3 Battleline
    x2 Artillery
    x1 Behemoth


    Spoiler: Bad Duardin That Do Suck
    Show
    Fyreslayers
    Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth - 220 Points
    Grimwrath Berzerker - 100 Points
    Battlesmith - 100 Points

    Vulkite Berzerkers (x20) - 320 Points

    Warscroll Battalion; Forge Brethren - 80 Points
    Auric Runesmiter - 100 Points
    Auric Hearthguard (x5) - 100 Points
    Auric Hearthguard (x5) - 100 Points
    Auric Hearthguard (x5) - 100 Points

    Order Serpentis
    War Hydra - 240 Points

    Shadowblades
    Assassin - 80 Points

    Stormcast Eternals
    Lord-Castellant - 100 Points
    Judicators (x5) - 160 Points
    Judicators (x5) - 160 Points
    Gryph-Houd - 40 Points

    Total: 2000 Points
    x6 Leaders
    x3 Battleline
    x0 Artillery
    x2 Behemoths


    I declare that my General is my Steam Tank. Check it, your General is any model you want. Doesn't have to be a Leader, doesn't even need to be a HERO. True facts. Basically you give any model you want, Inspiring Presence for free. Seems legit. Especially since I built my list correctly and have plans in place (see; Longbeards, below).

    I had less units that the Blackshirt, so I went first. The Shadow Warriors 'scouted' into forward terrain. Knight-Azyros, the Red Lantern, Flew forwards 12", and just had to roll a 2+ on his Run dice to not screw everything up. I rolled a '5'. Even better. 12+5" = 17", meaning the Blackshirt's DZ is only 7" away, and many units are in range to get annihilated. I move forwards with the rest of my army.
    The Red Lantern says "Shoot this idiot." The Cogsmith says "You got it, chief." Two Cannons and a Steam Tank later (FIRE EVERYTHING!1!), the last Wound on the Magmadroth, is, of course, taken by the Tank Commander's Long Rifle. The Magmadroth explodes - because it sucks - and deals 2 Mortal Wounds to the Lord-Castellant. The Red Lantern gives a thumbs up. The Tank Commander gives a thumbs up. The Cogsmith gives a thumbs up. Opposing General down. Turn 1. Job's a good'un. My Shadow Warriors put a couple of wounds on the Battlesmith.

    A unit of Hearthguard and the Runesmiter show up, and melt holes in one of my Cannons. Vulkite Berzerkers charge my Red Lantern, and rip him limb-from-limb, but who cares? He already did the thing.

    In my Hero Phase, my Longbeards say Warden Kings suck because they only have 5 Wounds. This lets my DISPOSSESSED HERO use his Command Ability, even when he's not the General - which he isn't - 'cause he needs to prove himself or some nonsense. I take re-rolls To Wound against the Vulkite Berzerkers, and my Steam Tank softens the Vulkites right before I Charge my Ironbreakers into them, while my Warriors charge the Hearthguard and Runesmiter. I know I should be dealing with the Hydra, but it regenerates 3 Wounds a turn, I'm down a Cannon, and my opponent still hasn't revealed the Assassin.

    The Grimwrath Berzerker charges the Shadow Warriors. Fortunately, my opponent activates his Berzerkers first to try and break my Ironbreakers (spoiler alert; he doesn't), so I ditch that combat and activate my Shadow Warriors first. I dump over 15 attacks into the Berzerker, and I kill him, but he does that thing where he doesn't 'die' 'til the end of the phase, and kills my Aelfs. Point is, I probably wouldn't have been able to kill the Zerk if I hadn't attacked first.

    Overall, the battle was messy. I couldn't kill his Hydra, and he couldn't kill my Steam Tank. I cut huge chunks out of his army, but he couldn't deal with 4+rr Saves. After I squashed his Infiltrating Hearthguard like bugs, he had nothing that could combat my Cogsmith & Cannon, where I removed 5-6 models per turn. I'm fairly certain that my opponent will always be able to deal with one Cannon, but rarely two, and especially not with a Steam Tank also.

    Play of the match came when the Assassin materialised from behind or underneath the Gryph-Hound or however an Assassin does it. I had to call BS, but nope. Turns out rules are rules, and 'a unit' is anything. I didn't target the Gryph-Hound, ever, because I had no units that the Gryph-Hound would affect, so I left it alone. I think the plan is to Gryph-Hound whatever comes out of Infiltrate, and then, after Gryphdog has used his welcome, Charge the Infiltrating unit with Gryphdog, and unleash an Assassin...Because it's funny? Did a number on me though. 6 attacks, all Hit, all Wound, then because I Charged that turn, I didn't get to re-roll my Saves, and the Assassin gets to activate whenever it wants - even if its my turn to activate - and just demolish. I failed four, 4+ Saves from six.

    Ultimately, it wasn't even a close game, not really. I had a lot of points left on the board at the end, but, my ultimate goal, was to simply target down all of the Blackshirt's Fyreslayers and make sure he had none on the board by the end of the game. Because screw Fyreslayers, that's why. Again, I can't stress enough how important it is for a General to have more than 6 or 7 Wounds, because people like me, will do exactly what I did, and a Magmadroth has 12 Wounds, and I still BALEETED! it on Turn 1.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2016-08-04 at 09:17 AM.
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  21. - Top - End - #141
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Played an actual 1k game of AoS today. Took the Verminus warscroll thingy plus a grey seer.

    Spoiler: Skaven
    Show

    120 - Gey Seer - General
    100 - Warlord
    180 - 30x Clanrats
    60 - 10x Clanrats
    60 - 10x Clanrats
    280 - 20x Stormvermin
    60 - 1x Warpfire Thrower
    80 - 1x Ratling Cannon
    60 - 1x Poisoned Wind Mortar

    1000


    against a Tomb Kings force

    Spoiler: Tomb Kings
    Show

    1x Tomb King on Chariot - General
    1x Wizard/Priest thingy
    20x Skellies
    6x Archer Chariots
    1x Bone Giant
    1x Scorpion thingy


    I played like crap and lost, but confirmed that:
    - 20x stormvermin with a warlord buff handing out ~60 odd attacks a turn hitting on 2's and wounding on 3's just flat out deletes things
    - Clanrats suck, even in big units, but make a good screen/chaff in min squads. As such, there's never a reason to bring more than the min amount of battleline clanrats
    - A 6" move is insufficient with minimal shooting in the army
    - Grey Seers aren't worth 120 points
    - I hate playing Death Armies
    - If you're not dealing 20+ wounds a turn, you might as well not bother
    - Ratling Cannons are decent
    - Hiding weapons teams 3.5" into a block of infantry is dirty
    - Poisoned Wind mortars are swingy as hell, but can be devastatingly brutal when they work
    - Realmgates are the worst
    - Monsters and deepstrikers are the best
    - Still having your models on 20mm square bases allows for a disgusting amount of attacks with 1" weapon range base to base.

    I think I might very much like to proxy a warpgrinder team to go with the stormvermin, even if they would "only" be hitting on 3's

    Next 1k might be
    Spoiler
    Show

    100 - Warlord
    60 - 10x Clanrats
    60 - 10x Clanrats
    280 - 20x Stormvermin
    140 - Doomwheel
    180 - Warp Lightning Cannon
    180 - Warp Lightning Cannon

    1000


    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Play of the match came when the Assassin materialised from behind or underneath the Gryph-Hound or however an Assassin does it. I had to call BS, but nope. Turns out rules are rules, and 'a unit' is anything. I didn't target the Gryph-Hound, ever, because I had no units that the Gryph-Hound would affect, so I left it alone. I think the plan is to Gryph-Hound whatever comes out of Infiltrate, and then, after Gryphdog has used his welcome, Charge the Infiltrating unit with Gryphdog, and unleash an Assassin...Because it's funny?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Elf Rules
    Master of Disguise:
    Instead of setting up Shadowblade normally, you can place him to one side and say that he is set up in hiding. At the start of any combat phase you can reveal Shadowblade; set him up within 1" of any of your Exiles units. He can then pile in and attack, even if it is your opponent’s turn to select a unit to attack with.
    Bolding mine. Was he within 1" of an Exile unit? If not, then while he can hide anywhere, he can't ever come out unless it's within 1" of an exile unit (in this case, the War Hydra was the only option)
    Last edited by Drasius; 2016-08-04 at 10:01 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I talked smack about Fyreslayers sucking. So the Blackshirt challenged me to a game, 'cause he has Fyreslayers.
    He was very quick to add in 'No Compendium units', so...Whatever.
    ...
    Ultimately, it wasn't even a close game, not really. I had a lot of points left on the board at the end, but, my ultimate goal, was to simply target down all of the Blackshirt's Fyreslayers and make sure he had none on the board by the end of the game. Because screw Fyreslayers, that's why. Again, I can't stress enough how important it is for a General to have more than 6 or 7 Wounds, because people like me, will do exactly what I did, and a Magmadroth has 12 Wounds, and I still BALEETED! it on Turn 1.
    The hatred is real
    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Played an actual 1k game of AoS today. Took the Verminus warscroll thingy plus a grey seer.

    Spoiler: Skaven
    Show

    120 - Gey Seer - General
    100 - Warlord
    180 - 30x Clanrats
    60 - 10x Clanrats
    60 - 10x Clanrats
    280 - 20x Stormvermin
    60 - 1x Warpfire Thrower
    80 - 1x Ratling Cannon
    60 - 1x Poisoned Wind Mortar

    1000


    against a Tomb Kings force

    Spoiler: Tomb Kings
    Show

    1x Tomb King on Chariot - General
    1x Wizard/Priest thingy
    20x Skellies
    6x Archer Chariots
    1x Bone Giant
    1x Scorpion thingy


    I played like crap and lost, but confirmed that:
    - 20x stormvermin with a warlord buff handing out ~60 odd attacks a turn hitting on 2's and wounding on 3's just flat out deletes things
    - Clanrats suck, even in big units, but make a good screen/chaff in min squads. As such, there's never a reason to bring more than the min amount of battleline clanrats
    - A 6" move is insufficient with minimal shooting in the army
    - Grey Seers aren't worth 120 points
    - I hate playing Death Armies
    - If you're not dealing 20+ wounds a turn, you might as well not bother
    - Ratling Cannons are decent
    - Hiding weapons teams 3.5" into a block of infantry is dirty
    - Poisoned Wind mortars are swingy as hell, but can be devastatingly brutal when they work
    - Realmgates are the worst
    - Monsters and deepstrikers are the best
    - Still having your models on 20mm square bases allows for a disgusting amount of attacks with 1" weapon range base to base.

    I think I might very much like to proxy a warpgrinder team to go with the stormvermin, even if they would "only" be hitting on 3's

    Next 1k might be
    Spoiler
    Show

    100 - Warlord
    60 - 10x Clanrats
    60 - 10x Clanrats
    280 - 20x Stormvermin
    140 - Doomwheel
    180 - Warp Lightning Cannon
    180 - Warp Lightning Cannon

    1000
    Tomb Kings are considered pretty darn good at the moment, especially Chariots which he appeared to have quite a few of.

    I like the new list! I think WLCs are a bit RNG-heavy for my taste, but hey you're playing Skaven so it kinda comes with the territory.

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Bolding mine. Was he within 1" of an Exile unit? If not, then while he can hide anywhere, he can't ever come out unless it's within 1" of an exile unit (in this case, the War Hydra was the only option)
    If he was using the Dark Elf Rules, that would be true. He's using the Shadowblade Assassin rules from Grand Alliance: Order, and the rule is Hidden Murderer, not Master of Disguise.

    It's different.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2016-08-04 at 10:27 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I like it. That was pretty close to what I was going between when I was deciding SE or Seraphon, 2 Start Collecting sets are just so valuable. Even if you don't even use the Warriors, you're getting so many free Knights.

    Since you are Seraphon Allegiance and therefore Knights are Battleline, plus the Astrolith Bearer boosting casting, you could also put the Warriors off the list and have 220 points of Summoning, bringing them on the board if you need them or having something else. Convert the remaining Knight into a Scar Veteran on Cold One, and you can also Summon him, so there's a bit of flexibility afforded based on what you need.

    Otherwise it looks solid! The Seraphon SC is an extremely good box for new players.
    Is there something in the Battletome about summoning? Because on the warscrolls, it only gives the summon spells to Slaan, not all Seraphon wizards.

    Also, I was considering going with Order Allegiance for the artifacts.

  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaktan View Post
    Because on the warscrolls, it only gives the summon spells to Slaan, not all Seraphon wizards.
    That is correct.
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  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    And I just realized you need 3 battleline for 2k, so there goes my plan for artifacts. Ah well, I will have to be content with death lasers.

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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Had 1000p Stormcast Eternals vs Ironjawz last night.

    Spoiler: Glorious Forces of Order
    Show
    Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (G)
    Lord-Celestant
    Liberators
    Judicators (Bows)
    Fulminators
    Prosecutors with Javelins
    Prosecutors with Javelins


    Spoiler: Dirty Forces of Destruction
    Show
    Megaboss
    Warchanter
    Ardboyz (2 weapons)
    Ardboyz (Greatweapons)
    Brutes
    Gore-Gruntas


    Rolled mission 2, the one with 4 objectives. I tried to spread out my force to threaten both my objectives and make a play for both of his (stupid) and he centralized his forces to get the most out of Rampaging Destroyers and Waaagh! (smart) He finished deploying first and decided to take second turn (very smart).

    I misplayed quite a bit in my first turn. I got one unit of Prosecutors 18" away from his Gore-Gruntas, I thought between them and the Judicators I should have been able to chunk down the unit so it wasn't super scary on the charge. Unfortunately I only brought one down to a single wound with all the shooting, leaving me in a very bad position. I also moved my Fulminators way away from everything else, hoping to keep them out of charge range so I could counter charge. Would have been smarter to just keep them behind the Liberators. He ended up charging a bunch, Gore-Gruntas killing my Prosecutors in one charge since they got the long range charge for extra damage. He did misuse his Waaagh! though, as he rolled it in the Hero Phase when everything was still clumped up. Might have helped me, but maybe not. His Brutes charged into my Liberators, sending all but the Prime back to Sigmar.

    He didn't get the double turn, yay. I whittled down the Gore-Gruntas and Brutes with the shooting, and then the foot Celestant moved in and threw Hammers at the Brutes, bringing them down to 2 models. He charged them afterwards, smashing them to bits handily (though not before they killed the remaining Liberator). Celestant on Dracoth blasted the Gruntas and Boyz with his Lightning Breath and then charged the Gruntas, killing them off as the Dracoth rolled a 6 to wound for 2 attacks, dealing 11 wounds by himself. Angry Dragon. Fulminators failed the charge, my positioning was so so so bad. In retaliation, he charged the a unit of Boyz into the Celestant on Dracoth and the Fulminators each, and the Megaboss fought the foot Celestant, cutting him down in moments. Fulminators do not impress when they don't charge, but the Celestant killed a bunch of Boyz without hesitation.

    I go first again. Literally sweating on that one. Boyz on the Celestant get whittled down a bunch, and then flee from massive Battleshock! Boyz on the Fulminators get blasted and do no wounds back, but they keep them locked up, which is bad. Oh his turn, the Megaboss charges in to help against the Fulminators, but one still stands at the end of his turn.

    He gets the double turn! Curses! Fulminator dies, nothing else is in range to do anything. I take a gamble - if I can kill his last squad of Boyz and hold 2 objectives, I win Minor Victory no matter what. Unfortunately, the Prosecutors in range kill only one in shooting and fail the 9" charge even with their 3d6" charge roll. Bad. Celestant runs onto an objective.

    I don't get the double turn, though I don't know if it would have helped. He moves his Warchanta onto the far objective. His remaining Boyz (only 3 left) and the Megaboss move 3" away from the Prosecutors... and the Megaboss rolls a 2 to charge! Boyz don't have enough to kill the Prosecutors, though I kill none back. In my turn, he does only 1 wound to them. Javelin Prosecutors continue to be disappointing in melee as well, but that doesn't matter. Turn 5, game ends.

    We each control 2 objectives. I've killed 540 worth of units (Gruntas, Ardboyz, Brutes) and he's killed Liberators, the Lord-Celestant, Fulminators, and one unit of Prosecutors, which adds up to... 520!

    Minor Victory for Sigmar this day!

    Extremely close game. I misplayed a lot - I never moved the Judicators, and they could have held the point they were on and still shot at least a couple arrows, they did nothing on the last two turns. I positioned poorly as well. He misused a couple rules, and also lost a couple more Boyz than he should have to Battleshock since he forgot about their banner. So, a few mistakes on both sides, but still not bad.

  28. - Top - End - #148
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Got 2000 points in with my Stormcast this time. Just about done building the models I've bought so far, just some minor conversions to do.

    Spoiler: Monday Night Fight - Stormcast vs Beastclaw Raiders
    Show
    Spoiler: Glorious Stormcast Eternals
    Show

    Lord-Celestant on Dracoth
    Knight-Vexillor

    Prosecutors with Javelins
    Prosecutors with Javelins
    Retributors (2x Starsoul)

    Skyborne Slayers
    Lord-Celestant
    Judicators (Bows)
    Judicators (Crossbows)
    Liberators
    Liberators
    Protectors
    Desolators

    1960/2000 (still waiting on that Gryph-hound :P)


    Spoiler: More Destruction, but different
    Show

    Frostlord on Stonehorn

    Skal
    Icebrow Hunter
    Frost Sabres
    Frost Sabres

    Eurlbad
    Huskard on Stonehorn
    Stonehorn Beastriders
    Mournfang Pack
    Mournfang Pack

    1980/2000


    So, I had a few more models than he did.

    Spoiler: Pregame
    Show
    We rolled Mission 2 (even though I just played it against the last guy), on a table that was much more densely terrain-ed. He won the first roll, and gave his Frostlord reroll 1s to hit and +1 damage on weapons, gave his Hunter the Elixir of Frostwyrm (spew MWs), and the Huskard got the Ice Mammoth Skull Plate (reroll saves against Rend -). Battalions, man. I took the +1 attack and Quicksilver Potion on the Lord-Celestant on Dracoth and Relic Blade on the Foot Celestant (which I forgot to use).

    Setup was pretty fast. All my Skyborne Slayers went into "reserve", as did his Hunter and Frost Sabres. I castled up my Vexillor and Retributors in a corner and the Dracoth Celestant and Prosecutors on the other side, while he put everything else nice and centralized. I though my starting board presence was small with 13 models, but he had 7 on the table!


    Spoiler: Turn 1
    Show
    Obviously he went first, and did what Destruction does - he ran up everything, and popped the Hunter and kitties out 9" away from my Dracoth Celestant. I figured too late that I should have bubbled the Javelins around the Celestant, but it was too late. He did a couple MWs with the Elixir of Frostwyrm, and then charged the Hunter and 2 cats into the Celestant and another 2 into a unit of Prosecutors. I popped Quicksilver and smashed his Hunter down to 2 wounds remaining, and he did 1 damage in return and killed 2 Prosecutors on the other combat (who did no wounds in retaliation). Passed that Battleshock with the nice Order reroll! I brought down all my Skyborne Slayers onto one of "his" objectives, in a chokepoint where I could put my Liberators in a wall and keep the Judicators and Celestant safe, while putting the Protectors aggressively forward. Teleported the Retributors onto one of the Mournfang units, and shuffled around the free Prosecutor squad. The Prosecutors and Dracoth Celestant popped the Hunter down in shooting, and the Judicators popped a bunch of wounds into the Huskard (which were halved, sadly). Then, the Protectors did their thing - they charged the Huskard. It's a Monster. 10 attacks got me three 6s to Wound, all of which he failed to save, and I dealt a total of 15 damage with the unit. Which he halved down to 7, but between them and the shooting from the Judicators, it was enough to drop the thing. First Blood! Dracoth Celestant popped the cats he was fighting, and the Protector Prime from the other combat stayed alive a bit longer. Retributors kill off one Mournfang but lose a dude in return.


    Spoiler: Turn 2
    Show
    He wins Initiative. Down 5 models, he's nearly half gone, but my Alpha Strike has been blown and the Retributors didn't do their job as well as I'd hoped. He moves the Beastriders over to help the one Mournfang with the Retributors, and the Frostlord pulls back to the Protectors. The full unit of Mournfang goes toward my wounded (but still standing) Dracoth Celestant. His shooting is ineffective, but his charge erases the Retributors and 4/5 of the Protectors, leaving the last one out of range of combat, boo. I kill off one Mournfang with the Celestant, and kills off the last Prosecutor. His Mournfang rolls a 6 for Battleshock, killing the remaining one on the Celestant! Lucky for me, though I liked my odds of killing him off anyway. In my turn, I move up my Desolators to support the remaining Protector, and leave the Judicators, Liberators, and Foot Celestant castled up on the objective. The Dracoth Celestant and Prosecutors make short work of the remaining Frost Sabres, and the Desolators and Protector ding a couple of wounds off of the Frostlord, but all die in the process. The Spear swinging 4 times at 3+ (rerolling 1s)/3+ with Rend -1 and 4 damage is just nuts, and makes short work of everything.


    Spoiler: Turn 3
    Show
    He gets Initiative again. He's only got 3 models left on the table, but Stonehorns are stupid hard to kill. His Frostlord moves back to the remaining Skyborne Slayers and crushes through the Liberators, while the Beastriders and Mournfang charge the other Liberator unit, evaporating them. I shift up the Prosecutors to shield my Celestant on Dracoth, and they plink off a couple more wounds from his Frostlord. The Bow Judicators make short work of the Mournfang, and the Crossbows show their stuff by putting a bunch of wounds into the Beastriders, along with the Lord-Celestant's hammer cape (HAMMER CAPE!). He likes his odds, and charges the Beastriders, killing off their remaining 3 wounds!


    Spoiler: Turn 4
    Show
    He gets the Initiative once again. The Frostlord is all by his lonesome, but it's more than scary enough to warrant it. He charges the Crossbow Liberators, smashing them to bits. It's down 6 wounds at this point, so I shoot a bunch into him, taking him down to another 2 (he rolled the reroll 1s to save on the Everwinter table, making him very tough). I charge in the Foot Celestant again, but only take him down to 3 remaining and then dying in return.


    Spoiler: Turn 5
    Show
    I get the final Initiative, shooting ineffectively with many stupid whiffs. I don't charge, but just shuffle my Bow Judicators to hold the point (held by model count in this one, so his Behemoth is at a disadvantage). He charges them to death, and the game ends.


    Spoiler: Endgame and Postgame thoughts
    Show
    He holds one objective, plus one from previously in the game (which, in this mission, means you still hold it. I hold two, since my Knight Vexillor was hanging out on one, smugly doing nothing ever since his teleporting fun times. Then we go to kill points. He's killed 1320 worth of units, I've killed 1380. Minor Victory for Sigmar again! Extremely close, this time.

    This was not a list that I was very good against. Liberators and Decimators had no place here, especially since I didn't give the Decimators any Starsoul Maces. I also probably was too cautious with the Dracoth Celestant - if he had gotten the charge on one of the Stonehorns, I probably could have done some real damage with him. But the Protectors evaporating the Huskard was very good, and the Judicators pulled their weight, at least plinking things down. I don't know if I like the Retributor bomb as much. It's cool, sure, but maybe I just rolled poorly because it seemed to lack the punch I needed. Probably not the best army to put it against, though.

    Definitely need more practice using the Skyborne Slayers. I think timing is everything - I possibly could have held out on using them, waiting for him to spread out some more, but I was worried about losing all my stuff before that happened.


    tl;dr - play safe and to the mission. Also, Stonehorns are probably underpriced considering they effectively have ~24 wounds with the whole halving incoming damage thing and they delete most units that aren't super tanks in one go.

  29. - Top - End - #149
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Cheesegear's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Got annihilated today;

    (G) Abhorrant Ghoul King - 100 Points
    Crypt Haunter Courtier - 120 Points
    Varghulf Courtier - 160 Points

    Crypt Ghouls (x10) - 100 Points
    Crypt Ghouls (x10) - 100 Points
    Crypt Horrors (x9) - 420 Points

    Total: 1000 Points

    Entire army revolves around bringing back the Crypt Horrors. The Ghoul King packs the Death Ring artefact that lets him come back with D3 Wounds after he dies.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
    League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
    You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Got annihilated today;

    (G) Abhorrant Ghoul King - 100 Points
    Crypt Haunter Courtier - 120 Points
    Varghulf Courtier - 160 Points

    Crypt Ghouls (x10) - 100 Points
    Crypt Ghouls (x10) - 100 Points
    Crypt Horrors (x9) - 420 Points

    Total: 1000 Points

    Entire army revolves around bringing back the Crypt Horrors. The Ghoul King packs the Death Ring artefact that lets him come back with D3 Wounds after he dies.
    I've not had the pleasure of going against FEC yet, but that looks absolutely brutal. If you can't take out the Courtiers relatively quickly, that's a pain train with no brakes.

    What kind of chaff do you use? I find lately that there is a very real need to have cheap units to soak charges and slow things down. Even though points I spend on Liberators could go towards "better" units, being able to keep even a single charge from hitting my more important units is 200% worth the cost. I've even bumped up one of my units to a 10-man squad just to bubble wrap harder. Stopping one charge gives you another turn to try and pop the Varghulf or Haunter, and then whittling things down actually does something. Even more disgusting with the Death Allegiance, though.

    Side note - apparently there will be an "ITC" for AoS from the folks over at Frontline pretty soon, very excited if that's true. They've done quite a bit for the 40k scene (whether people agree with them or not), so their support of AoS is only a good thing in my book.
    Last edited by Requizen; 2016-08-24 at 09:43 AM.

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