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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    IIRC Zeke never was in a position to eat Eren. It has been confirmed, more or less, that you do need royal blood to use the co-ordinate; this was Eren Junior's epiphany not many chapters ago, when he realized the only time he could use the co-ordinate was when he was in physical contact with Zeke's titanized mother.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    That time were most likely the closest the coordinate power has been to falling back into the hands of someone with true royal blood?
    Who in addition would have knowledge of how things were in the outside world. Kinda fun to think about how much things could have changed there.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Interesting, seems like the anime is incorporating some hints much earlier on than the manga.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    That time were most likely the closest the coordinate power has been to falling back into the hands of someone with true royal blood?
    Who in addition would have knowledge of how things were in the outside world. Kinda fun to think about how much things could have changed there.
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    I doubt that she would have said a word out before Mikasa would have loped her head off.

    Or, even worse, Dina might have been influenced by the will of the King and had the Titans eat everyone.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    New Attack on Titan Manga Chapter and I am mighty impressed with the storytelling.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    New Attack on Titan Manga Chapter and I am mighty impressed with the storytelling.
    It's real good! It's a great mirror and it really humanized that *******. I can't remember his name I'm not super into Attack on Titan.


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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    It's real good! It's a great mirror and it really humanized that *******. I can't remember his name I'm not super into Attack on Titan.
    It's Reiner and yeah, it does a pretty decent job at that. I do wonder though, if this will end by the shifters turning against Marley and give them the beating they deserve.

    Sidenote : something I've been wondering for a while... Paradis must be a quite large island.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    It can be that paradis is actually a small continent. I think thats a bit more likely from what we have seen of its size and population.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    We saw a map a few chapters ago. It didn't really seem that large.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    You cant really tell that sort of things though. Especially not if the map lacks anything to scale the distance with.

    Also i dont recall that chapter. Who had made the map?
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Wall Maria has a radius of about 480 km, so the total area inside the walls is about 724,000 km2. And the ocean is about a day's ride from Wall Maria. A quick Google search for "how far is a day's ride" yields about 80-100km for mounted soldiers riding fit, trained horses. Conservatively assuming an average of about 50km from Wall Maria to the ocean and a perfectly circular island, we're up to about 882,000 km2. That's more than three times bigger than the UK, more than twice as big as Japan, and about 50% bigger than Madagascar. That's a pretty darn big island, but not quite continent-sized; Australia is about 9x bigger.

    I also have no idea what real-world landmass it's supposed to be, though. We know it's in the northern hemisphere because it's supposed to be colder in the north of the walls than in the south. And it's supposed to be northeast of a larger landmass. Greenland is way too big and probably too far out in the middle of the ocean relative to Canada, the UK is way too small and on the wrong side of the adjacent continent, &c. I'm assuming it's nowhere near Asia because the people seem to be Germanic. Who knows, maybe Marley is on Atlantis.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    That's more than three times bigger than the UK, more than twice as big as Japan, and about 50% bigger than Madagascar. That's a pretty darn big island, but not quite continent-sized; Australia is about 9x bigger.

    I also have no idea what real-world landmass it's supposed to be, though.
    I am not saying this takes place in actual our world, but Paradise Isle looks mightly alike Madagascar off the coast of Africa.

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    Note this is how it is presented in the manga, aka the tail of the contient of Paradise / Paridis is facing the direction we commonly call North on our earth made Maps.

    But if the flip the map over you get an image that looks like this compared to africa.

    Before I show Africa noticed that this image is flipped upside down in the 2nd version and that the writting looks all weird because of it.







    We also see later on a map of greater Marley and the nearby continents and it looks like the nearby continents are part of Europe and Asia.

    Note maps is politics, there is a great scene about this from the west wing.



    From a biology standpoint what you assign to be the top and what the bottom in a map assigns unconscious biases in our heads without us even realizing it. This is because humans are biological creatures with hands and feats, and eyes, but we still have a universal constant which is gravity and the bottom, the horizon, rarely changes, yet the top often changes, and thus we look to the things in the north and assign them more importance if we make the north the top, but there is no reason why we have to make the north the top, the east could be the top, the west could be the top, the south can be the top. It is just so often we make the north the top, it has become an accustomed habit that we do not even think about it.

    And thus I do not think Attack on Titan literally takes place on this Earth set in the past or set in the future. Instead it is more of a comment about our unconscious biases that we do not really even realize. Do we question our culture, our history, is it literally true, or is it a fabrication. It is very disorienting, like you turn the world upside down, if you suddenly question the culture you were raised in and if its true or not. For if its not true you have to figure out on your own merits what could be true, and what is not true, and it is just cognitively simpler...it is just easier...to be a machine and just listen to the history that you were taught even if the history is a lie.

    Hajime Isayama, the author of attack on titan, by making the attack on titan world look very similar to our world, but slightly different like North is South (really what we call South is just the top of the map, but our brains sometimes forget the distinction of North and Top) it makes us question our own reality out of a sense of deja vu but at the same time the deja vu is OFF, it does not feel right, and thus we enter a stage of doubt that makes us reconsider our own past, to try to find the balance that makes everything feel like up is up, down is down, top is top, and so on.

    Note the Gall Peters Projection has its own flaws even though in my opinion the Flaws are minor and the advantages are Major. That said the XKCD author disagrees.

    See https://xkcd.com/977/ But understand he is not really hating the Gall Peters Projection, he is instead hating the arrogant people who think the Gall Peters Projection is without flaws, aka the people full of hubris for they are preaching something they do not really understand. Every form of map has flaws, you can't make a 3d map into a 2d map accurately. But people who say the Gall Peters Projection has no flaws has fallen to marketing. Aka see https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/ind...ap_Projections

    This is actually a very big deal in philosphy and especially the philosphy of perception, memory, and motivated reasoning. It is called the map is not the territory (and vice versa). Human Beings actually are smarter for we do not try to accurately see and perceive reality but we can easily truncate information to make it easier to manipulate in our minds in a symbol / abstract way.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2...itory_relation

    If we did not do this, it would be too much data, we could not make useful decisions. Aka motivated reasoning (propaganda we tell ourselves) is the secret to human intelligence, both its virtue and its sins.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivated_reasoning

    We actually even have a specific brain area called brodmann area 10 to deal with this idea of cognitive dissonance and motivated reasoning, but we only use this brain area when we feel we have to, and we do so in a non stress, introspective manner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodmann_area_10 Note BA 10 is one of the biggest differences between us / humans and monkeys / and other primates, this area of the brain has had a recent expansion between us and other primates. Note there are also major differences between primates / monkeys and humans in the Inferior Frontal Cortex which is one of the brain areas that deals with language but also many other things.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Hm, I didn't notice back when the map was shown but yeah, this looks a damn lot like Madagascar and Africa. But I'm more inclined to believe the map was merely used because the author didn't feel like making something up on his own and decided to instead be lazy.
    It's too small, it's on the southern hemisphere and I'm pretty sure the story is not meant to take place on Earth what with our lack of a titan race and stuff.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Well it could just be an alternate reality, but really good find regarding the simularity to madagaskar. It is certainly also a good point regarding how North dont need to be the top of the map.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    There is even a better map on page 4 of chapter 93 that shows much more to the "south". You can see most of Europe, a good chunk of Russia and over to India and Indonesia. The other way to can see part of South America, though that does not seem to be quite the right shape. Given the weather, I wonder if the planet may not have flipped over at some point and people are rebuilding from that.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I am not saying this takes place in actual our world, but Paradise Isle looks mightly alike Madagascar off the coast of Africa.

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    Note this is how it is presented in the manga, aka the tail of the contient of Paradise / Paridis is facing the direction we commonly call North on our earth made Maps.

    But if the flip the map over you get an image that looks like this compared to africa.

    Before I show Africa noticed that this image is flipped upside down in the 2nd version and that the writting looks all weird because of it.





    But...that's not how flipping maps works? You can rotate it, which retains the relationships between things and just changes the orientation, but you can't flip it, because that inverts the east-west relationships between things. That would be a mirror Earth, not just Earth turned upside-down.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    There is even a better map on page 4 of chapter 93 that shows much more to the "south". You can see most of Europe, a good chunk of Russia and over to India and Indonesia. The other way to can see part of South America, though that does not seem to be quite the right shape. Given the weather, I wonder if the planet may not have flipped over at some point and people are rebuilding from that.
    Wait, which map? This is chapter 93 page 4:
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    That doesn't really look at all like Europe. Maybe very vaguely like Scandinavia rotated about 45 clockwise, but still not really, and Scandinavia isn't that pointy and doesn't have a huge island in the Barents Sea. And where do you see India or South America?
    Last edited by noparlpf; 2017-06-10 at 11:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Flip it upside down, that should help. As the map sits now though South America is on the far left but as I said it does not look right. The Mediterranean is clearly there though Italy is a stub as is India. It looks like something chunk out of France and Spain but what is left of the British Isles at the bottom. On the far right at the edge you can clearly see the Strait of Malacca between Indonesia and Malaysia. The Black Sea is a larger as the Caspian Sea is a LOT bigger. And it looks like we have a couple new seas further to the right. I think what you are calling Scandinavia is actually Denmark. Something REALLY bad happened to old planet Earth here.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    What HoS said. That's very clearly Africa upside down. Yeah, there is a lot of things that don't fit reality but going from a "drawn with a rough idea of what Europe looks like" that's still pretty accurate. India is a tad short and so on, but frankly, off the top of my head it wouldn't look better. Either it's meant to reflect their lack of information or cartography or it's not quite Earth, but the inspiration is very obvious once you pay attention...
    Also, now I wonder which part pf Madagascar is actually cooler... but I feel there won't be much of a climate change there.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Oh wait, I did flip it but didn't see what you were saying because it's still inverted east-west. Maybe Isayama just didn't understand how flipping maps works and just flipped it vertically instead of rotating it 180.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    Oh wait, I did flip it but didn't see what you were saying because it's still inverted east-west. Maybe Isayama just didn't understand how flipping maps works and just flipped it vertically instead of rotating it 180.
    Why does the map design have to be with the north being on the top. Now viewing something that is already a premade map 180 degrees is natural for you do not need to redesign the map. But when you created the map in the first place why does north have to be the top, south could be the top, or east could be the top
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Early Chinese maps often where "upside down", so it's nothing new. The thing is if the map is just "upside down", then the continents would be facing the other way. As for Madagascar, it's listed as being tropical for the most part. It even has a desert like area. Very different from what we see in AoT. It also does not have giant redwood trees.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    The climate on this mirror-Earth is presumably significantly cooler, hence larger ice caps, lower sea level, and a Madagascar that's 50% bigger. That's the easiest way I can see to reconcile both the climate and the estimated size of the island at once.
    Last edited by noparlpf; 2017-06-11 at 07:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Actually, it look like sea level has risen as a lot of places that are above water now are gone on this map and there are a lot more lakes/seas in place that don't have them know. . It does seem to be cooler though.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Yeah, I really have no idea. It's a weird map.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Could it just be that he's using a map because he doesn't know how to build his unique continent?

    And I don't mean that as an insult, since I wouldn't know either. Using a "normal" earth map and flipping some stuff around certainly seems like an easy way around the "How to make X" part, especially if it's not a major part of the story.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    Could it just be that he's using a map because he doesn't know how to build his unique continent?

    And I don't mean that as an insult, since I wouldn't know either. Using a "normal" earth map and flipping some stuff around certainly seems like an easy way around the "How to make X" part, especially if it's not a major part of the story.
    I agree with what you are saying, and let me be the devil's advocate anyway even though we are in agreement.

    Has anyone ever heard of Catatumbo lightning?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catatumbo_lightning

    It is a location on real life earth and not some sci fi or fantasy place where roughly 3/4ths of the nights of the planet in a year this location will have one large thunderstorm thousands of bolts of lighning, far bigger than a normal thunderstorm, with 250 to 300 bolts of lightning per hour, 10 hours a night / day, and each single lightning bolt producing more energy than a traditional lightning bolt (if I recall it is an order of magnitude more energy for a single lightning bolt in catatumbo than a normal lightning some place else either the median energy for the lightning bolt or the mean.)

    How does this occur? We really do not know, we know several of the reasons but we do not know them all and how much each of these individual reasons are.

    Well first Catatumbo is a lake, well more of a cove where there is a river on one side of the freshwater lake, and then the lake has a small opening to the sea.





    Around the lake on roughly 3/4ths the sides there are very tall mountains. And on the side that is not part of the mountains you have the ocean but it is not just the ocean but the angle (aka north south stuff) where the normal winds of the caribbean ocean is hitting the different types of winds from the mountains, and the different type of winds from the lake and this creates a pressure system that makes it very easy to have thunderstorms and not just have thunderstorms but have really big thunderstorms. Storms that you can see from 400 kilometers away / 250 miles. If you imagine the map of the united states and then imagine kansas in the center of it, the north to sound border of kansas is only 343 km / 210 miles aka it is further than that.



    There is also probably other factors in play that makes Catatumbo the famous Catatumbo lightnings like probably the botany that occurs right before the lake around the river. There is a theory it is the biological mass decomposing that may also modify how easy it is to create lightning. There are other places with similar stuff around the world but not to this extreme.





    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    Could it just be that he's using a map because he doesn't know how to build his unique continent?

    And I don't mean that as an insult, since I wouldn't know either. Using a "normal" earth map and flipping some stuff around certainly seems like an easy way around the "How to make X" part, especially if it's not a major part of the story.
    My entire point of this post was not to nerd-off about this really cool place, but to point out the details matter, and the details matter so much that even if you think you understand all the details a small change can make a dramatic effect. Change the slope of the mountains of Catatumbo, or change the angle of the 3 sides so it hits at a slightly more to the right or the left and it changes everything, or widen the cove output area so there is no big lake of freshwater before it becomes saltwater and so on.

    Eventually you have to just handwave it away. The author just has to say because I said so. (Effectively I am agreeing with Quiver). There is a point where the lands you draw on a piece of paper would not have happened naturally, sure the land would still be there but the height of the mountains, or the climate, or something else, would be all wrong for there are so many forces in play we get a perfect example of chaos theory and the power of jerksphysic term / physic joke, aka the 3rd derivative of position, or the 2nd derivative of velocity. Aka those sudden lurches where you thought you understand everything but somehow one minor detail, a butterfly causes a "lurch" and we are nolonger talking about a linear system, something that can be graphed with normal mathmathics of algebra or calc 1 and 2, but we have to use higher levels of math aka differential equations, a jerk equation is the ... let me quote wikipedia so I do not butcher this. From the wikipedia article about jerk systems

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerk_(physics)

    . It has been shown that a jerk equation, which is equivalent to a system of three first-order ordinary non-linear differential equations, is in a mathematically well defined sense the minimal setting for solutions showing chaotic behaviour [the wikipedia article then links to another article about chaos theory]. This motivates mathematical interest in jerk systems. Systems involving a fourth or higher derivative are accordingly called hyperjerk systems.


    There will always be a fly in the ointment, or a butterfly in your system that you did not take into account for.

    Ian Malcolm actually likes being the jerk, that is why he choose to specialize in chaos theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

    ----------

    So my point of my long ass post is to tell the people to stop trying to critique a beautifulish story Hajime Isayama has given us.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2017-06-14 at 12:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    My entire point of this post was not to nerd-off about this really cool place, but to point out the details matter, and the details matter so much that even if you think you understand all the details a small change can make a dramatic effect. Change the slope of the mountains of Cataumbo, or change the angle of the 3 sides so it hits at a slightly more to the right or the left and it changes everything, or widen the cove output area so there is no big lake of freshwater before it becomes saltwater and so on.

    ...

    So my point of my long ass post is to tell the people to stop trying to critique a beautifulish story Hajime Isayama has given us.
    Details absolutely are important, but I think your last paragraph sums up my thoughts: Isayama isn't a Brandon Sanderson. The setting is obviously important to some extent, but I don't think it's something crucial to the underlying story.

    I like detailed worldbuilding. Again, Sanderfan!... but I don't think that Isayama's jam. He's interested in telling a story, and he gives us enough information about the setting to facilitate that... but I don't think he's planned out the world of Titania much beyond that.

    And I don't mean that as a criticism! He's just a different kind of storyteller. It just makes me surprised/confused as to why people pore over his maps so much; I don't think knowing if this story is set on a past/future version of earth will really tells us that much about the conspiracy, setting and so on.

    ... but that's probably my own biases at work!

    (Also, thanks for the above post, was interesting!)
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    Details absolutely are important, but I think your last paragraph sums up my thoughts: Isayama isn't a Brandon Sanderson. The setting is obviously important to some extent, but I don't think it's something crucial to the underlying story.

    I like detailed worldbuilding. Again, Sanderfan!... but I don't think that Isayama's jam. He's interested in telling a story, and he gives us enough information about the setting to facilitate that... but I don't think he's planned out the world of Titania much beyond that.

    And I don't mean that as a criticism! He's just a different kind of storyteller. It just makes me surprised/confused as to why people pore over his maps so much; I don't think knowing if this story is set on a past/future version of earth will really tells us that much about the conspiracy, setting and so on.

    ... but that's probably my own biases at work!

    (Also, thanks for the above post, was interesting!)
    I think we are in agreement. Let me use a metaphor. Details are the spices of the literary world. They can't be the base ingredient, that has to be the story, but details can enhance and modify the base ingredient. The goal of spices is 3 things 1) to add a type of flavor that the main dish did not have. 2) to enhance the already existing flavor 3) to cause the mixing of flavors, for example bitter sweet, sweet and sour, sharp and tangy, etc.

    I am not dissing details, just reminding you details are not an exception for a good story.

    On the subject of details and trainwrecks, I read the first 10 books of the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. I then gave up and tried twice to reread and then get to the later stories of the series. How bad is the remaining WoT series under Brandon Sanderson's pen. I here it is better than what Jordan was doing, but Jordan had a trainwreck every since Book 6, and in hindsight books 1 to 6 were not as good as I remember them as a teenager.
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  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I think we are in agreement. Let me use a metaphor. Details are the spices of the literary world. They can't be the base ingredient, that has to be the story, but details can enhance and modify the base ingredient. The goal of spices is 3 things 1) to add a type of flavor that the main dish did not have. 2) to enhance the already existing flavor 3) to cause the mixing of flavors, for example bitter sweet, sweet and sour, sharp and tangy, etc.

    I am not dissing details, just reminding you details are not an exception for a good story.

    On the subject of details and trainwrecks, I read the first 10 books of the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. I then gave up and tried twice to reread and then get to the later stories of the series. How bad is the remaining WoT series under Brandon Sanderson's pen. I here it is better than what Jordan was doing, but Jordan had a trainwreck every since Book 6, and in hindsight books 1 to 6 were not as good as I remember them as a teenager.
    This is maybe a little off-topic, but...
    I've never read the Wheel of Time, so I can't comment on that series.

    Sanderson's own books, on the other hand, I quite like, and would definitely recommend. His Mistborn series was one of the first books to actually feature a protahonist I identified with, and Warbreakeris one of my favourite books, period. His Stormlight Archive series is a very "standard high fantasy" in terms of plot, but the world building is phenomenal.
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  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

    Regarding the anime... They've really put in quite a reveal with Ymir's backstory portrayed as they did. It might be more obvious if you know the manga but even if not... Though, maybe you could also consider it a red herring.
    I do have to wonder how she knew how long she was a titan, though.
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