Can a Cavalier be a Charioteer?

[Slayer Lord]

A few years back I ran a 3.5 campaign set in Ancient Greece. We had a lot of fun, and I've been thinking about running it again. While considering how the different classes would fit in this setting, I had considered dropping cavaliers since it didn't seem like they fit the setting. Then I got to thinking about adding chariots to the mix.
What do you guys think? Would a chariot-using cavalier work under RAW? Thoughts on a build, or a custom archetype? Any 3rd party rules?

[Secret Wizard]

What do you mean Cavaliers don't fit in ancient Greece?

There weren't only outriders, there were also hippei who not just matched the cavalier in being mounted, but also had a high social ranking which matches the social abilities granted by some cavalier archetypes.

In any case, I recommend looking at the Qadiran Horselord and the Emissary archetypes as they match fighting style of Greek riders better.

Of course, dismounted archetypes like the Constable should also work with a little refluffing (call it a praetor or something).

Refluff Orders to be philosophies of a particular house or worship.

[avr]

If there is anything more awkward than getting a big horse down a flight of steps/up a mountain/through a swamp it must be getting a horse and chariot down a flight of steps, etc. I do not recommend making a large part of a character's class features so hard to access.

There are vehicle rules in PF. I haven't used them and can't say how good they are.

[CharonsHelper]

If you're thinking the time period of 300, chariots weren't used much. I think you'd have to go back to the fall of Troy for them to be as common as cavalry.

Chariots were used more earlier for a combination of two reasons.

1. Horses weren't big enough to haul someone into battle effectively.

2. Stirrups weren't invented yet.

Once you have those two things, chariots stopped being used nearly as much.

Plus chariots needed pretty flat land to be effective. The Persians when Alexander the Great fought them (one of the last groups to use chariots much) sent slaves out to potential battlefields days ahead of time to clear rocks etc to not mess with the chariots.

In the Bible, a lot of the time they talk about the 12 tribes suckering their foes into the mountains was to keep them from using chariots. (Secondary was that the Hebrews were mostly lighter infantry, and the rough terrain would mess up heavy infantry formations.)

Chariots were also not all that nimble. They were used in large part as archer platforms rather than for smashing into stuff, and the cavalier class makes a really bad archer.

So no - I do not recommend a cavalier variant based around a chariot. Cavaliers already have enough issues getting their mount everywhere, and if you have a chariot actually act like a chariot (which would basically be vehicle rules - which are nearly always a hot mess in RPGs), it'd be all but useless.

[Slayer Lord]

You all make some good points. Nix the chariots as a class feature. Thanks for the assistance.

[Gallowglass]

The vehicle rules in pathfinder are pretty lackluster when it comes to actual fun things to do with the chariot. Certainly, nothing in them makes bringing a chariot along a worthwhile exercise. You can't even properly attack with the thing because the horses are between you and using the very weak ram that vehicles are given by the rules.

I am playing an inquisitor in a greek based game right now and I really wanted to do something with the chariot that I looted found, so I worked with the GM and we built a custom feat that I could take to get some fun out of it.

Charioteering (Combat):

You are an expert at using a chariot in combat and advanced techniques in chariot warfare!

Prerequisite:
Handle Animal or Profession Driver (3 ranks), base attack bonus +1.

Benefit:

This feat counts as both Improved Overrun and Improved Bullrush for Combat Maneuvers made with a chariot only. They cannot be used as prerequisites for other feats except those that also apply only to the chariot. If you have one of those feats, this feat give you an additional +2 on CMB checks of that type.

Sideswipe Ram: This allows you to sweep with the sideboard of the chariot which acts as a Ram. This overrides the normal inability to put a ram on a pulled land vehicle. However, unless you specifically build strengthening into the chariot (2x price of normal chariot), the chariot will still take half damage from the ram as normal. This overrides the normal handling issues with ramming with a pulled land vehicle.

Quick righting: When your chariot flips, you are faster and more adept at righting the chariot. Instead of a minimum of 5 full round actions and a DC 25 str check, you can right the chariot with a successful handle animal check (DC 25) with a single full round action.

Archer platform: With a successful drive check (DC ?), you can keep your chariot steady to make it a superior platform for archers and spellcasters. This will remove the -4 to -8 penalty for ranged weapons on a double move or run action, as well as the concentration check required by the spell caster.

Driver Attack: Normally driving the chariot is a standard action which would preclude the driver making an attack on their own. However, if the drive check made at the beginning of the turn is successful (DC ?), the driver is allowed to make a single melee or ranged attack (with a one handed weapon (mace, sword, sling, javelin)) at any point along the movement

*******


I remember posting in homebrew back when we brainstormed it for input and didn't get a single response. We've been using it in the game so far and the feedback based on usefulness is that it could stand to be split into two feats instead of one and that the Archer Platform "trick" has been the most game-changing as one of the two archers or one of the spellcasters is constantly on the back of the thing.

Its been really fun to use on wide open outdoor encounters. As someone else pointed out, a great portion of the time you can't use it so don't build it as the main component of your build. I wouldn't have spent two feats on it with my feat starved inquisitor, but I feel I've gotten my money out of it with the one feat.