MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

[Grey_Wolf_c]

You're right, I totally forgot about Wish. Doesn't Wish need to be highly specific in its wording, though? Like, it's not enough to say "I wish for my friend to be safe," but instead "I wish for O-chul and the elf to be magically transported to their Azure City refugee friends right this instant!" Or have I just had particularly stringent DMs who loved to play word-twisting djinni?

Wish as a spell has no such limitation in 3.5. (I won't comment on your DM)

GW

[Kornaki]

Wish does have

"You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)"


But remember that one thing wish can do is greater teleport as one of the specified ok things (level 8 and below spells). If mitd used wish to move them if almost certainly would not qualify as a "greater effect" than the listed abilities; I think it's fine to believe he used a wish without negative side effect here.

[Kish]

I think something as simple as, "I wish O-Chul and that elf were with their friends" would have been sufficient (particularly if the Wish decided that Hinjo and/or one or more members of the Order of the Stick were the only person/people who could be described as friend(s) to both Vaarsuvius and O-Chul).

[Peelee]

I think something as simple as, "I wish O-Chul and that elf were with their friends" would have been sufficient (particularly if the Wish decided that Hinjo and/or one or more members of the Order of the Stick were the only person/people who could be described as friend(s) to both Vaarsuvius and O-Chul).

This is a great example of "elegant in its simplicity."

[ReaderAt2046]

A possible alternate explanation for the SBGH's surprise to hear MITD speaking: What if the MITD is of a species that normally communicates by telepathy, and the SBGHs were surprised to hear it actually speaking aloud? Are there any candidates that this explanation would help with?

[b_jonas]

A possible alternate explanation for the SBGH's surprise to hear MITD speaking: What if the MITD is of a species that normally communicates by telepathy, and the SBGHs were surprised to hear it actually speaking aloud? Are there any candidates that this explanation would help with?

Try to search the first posts. Section 3a says "Uvuudaum. Pros: Normally communicates with telepathy, not by speaking, so it's surprising it talks."

[Crusher]

Try to search the first posts. Section 3a says "Uvuudaum. Pros: Normally communicates with telepathy, not by speaking, so it's surprising it talks."

Iirc, the Athasian Nightmare Beast has no listed forms of communication at all, though its a powerful psionicist, so it could probably work out telepathy somehow. I think Proteans are weird from a communication standpoint as well.

Also, in regard to the earlier question, the Cleric spell Miracle would work fine as well, since its analogous to Wish. I think a better way of putting it would be that Wish or Miracle is the "best" solution, but Teleport or Greater Teleport could also work albeit with some hand-waving, like Dimensional anchor plus some way of figuring out where Mr Stiffley's friends were. Some possible options (some of which are better than others) include: telepathy (read V's mind to see where s/he came from), trace teleport (to track where V came from), or some kind of really powerful and quickly cast detection ability.

[The Aboleth]

Iirc, the Athasian Nightmare Beast has no listed forms of communication at all, though its a powerful psionicist, so it could probably work out telepathy somehow. I think Proteans are weird from a communication standpoint as well.

I keep going back and forth between ANB and the Protean, myself. The former seems to have all the pros with the only seemingly big con being that it wasn't published until a few months after strip 100, but the latter would seem to me to be the best fit for the circus scene (a constantly shifting mass would be both terrifying and beautiful, I think, while the ANB would just be terrifying).

I also kind of feel like a Protean is...cheating, I guess? Any power or spell it needs can be explained away with a "timely shapeshift into the exact specific creature" needed...that seems dangerously close to violating the spirit of a guessing game, IMO. That being said...we HAVE put it up as a guess, so maybe not.

I just want to know the answer! I had a dream two weeks ago that I had figured it out, and it's been haunting me ever since.

[5a Violista]

I just want to know the answer! I had a dream two weeks ago that I had figured it out, and it's been haunting me ever since.

Was it like a dream after a remorhaz kebab too close to bed?
;p


I just was idly thinking about who claims they recognized him.
Stereotyped Big Game Hunters. Redcloak. Oona. O-Chul (with the help of a scribe). Xykon? And not a wizard.

The Big Game Hunters know about beasts, and so does Oona. Redcloak likely has high Knowledge:religion, and O-Chul possibly had some as well (I believe he would need enough to get an idea of what the MitD is, or at least enough to know what questions to ask the scribe. I personally think O-Chul would've rolled high enough to recognize the basics of the MitD but not high enough to get enough details, which is why he had to go to the scribe. Either that, or O-Chul somehow used Knowledge:Religion to recognize a Miracle spell-like ability, or something like that). Xykon is...an epic-level Xykon.

As a result, I suspect the MitD is likely some kind of beast that has some connection to the Knowledge:Religion skill, such that someone with a very high Knowledge:Religion could likely figure him out.
Now, I just have to go look at the top options to suss out which options have ties to both being beasts and the Knowledge:Religion skill.

[Kish]

Xykon never claimed to recognize the creature in the darkness.

I think the switch from "know about beasts" to "Knowledge: Religion," treating knowledge as something that both is and isn't a skill in one theory, is a stretch. If knowledge of the creature in the darkness is covered by Knowledge: Religion, that means he's undead and not a beast in the type sense. If he's a magical beast, he'd be covered by Knowledge: Arcana.

[Ruck]

I keep going back and forth between ANB and the Protean, myself. The former seems to have all the pros with the only seemingly big con being that it wasn't published until a few months after strip 100, but the latter would seem to me to be the best fit for the circus scene (a constantly shifting mass would be both terrifying and beautiful, I think, while the ANB would just be terrifying).

I also kind of feel like a Protean is...cheating, I guess? Any power or spell it needs can be explained away with a "timely shapeshift into the exact specific creature" needed...that seems dangerously close to violating the spirit of a guessing game, IMO. That being said...we HAVE put it up as a guess, so maybe not.

I just want to know the answer! I had a dream two weeks ago that I had figured it out, and it's been haunting me ever since.

This is a lot of what I've been thinking, except that I actually think Protean works for the story because of the reasons you mention, not in spite of them. The MITD isn't aware he can shapeshift into the exact creature needed to accomplish something, and so far it seems we've only really seen him concentrate to achieve its goal once. It doesn't seem like a storytelling cheat to me, given the MITD's lack of knowledge of his immense powers and that unlocking them seems to be an important part of his arc.

For storytelling fluff, given how O-Chul has tried to get the MITD to think for himself, and O-Chul says he's not even sure the MITD would believe him if he told him what he thinks he is, I think it would make a lot of storytelling sense if the MITD was a species such that he could literally be whatever he wanted if he put his mind to it.

[Crusher]

I keep going back and forth between ANB and the Protean, myself. The former seems to have all the pros with the only seemingly big con being that it wasn't published until a few months after strip 100, but the latter would seem to me to be the best fit for the circus scene (a constantly shifting mass would be both terrifying and beautiful, I think, while the ANB would just be terrifying).

I also kind of feel like a Protean is...cheating, I guess? Any power or spell it needs can be explained away with a "timely shapeshift into the exact specific creature" needed...that seems dangerously close to violating the spirit of a guessing game, IMO. That being said...we HAVE put it up as a guess, so maybe not.

I just want to know the answer! I had a dream two weeks ago that I had figured it out, and it's been haunting me ever since.

Yeah, its quite the stumper.

One thing I'll also note is that I think the biggest strike against the Athasian Nightmare Beast is that its BIG, albeit in a weird way. Its Huge, so it squeezes under the line, but it would almost have to be a runt as a full-sized one is much more massive than even a storm giant (20' tall and 40' long), yet its apparently hollow or something because it somehow only weights 4,000 pounds.

On the other hand, the Protean isn't merely a creature that can change shape. Its a boiling mass of flesh that has to concentrate hard *NOT* to constantly change shape and size (from the size of an insect to dozens of yards long). That might explain why MitD is so bad at everything (he's constantly focusing on keeping his form still), but I simply can't get around his eyes and rough size remaining so constant over the years.

Finally, the list of folks who think they've identified MitD is kind of a peculiar one. I agree that Xykon did not necessarily know what MitD is, the statement isn't definitive. Xykon certainly thought MitD was impressively ugly, but whether or not he knew the species was unclear.

If we set Xykon aside, would you say the characters who at least think they've identified MitD generally have high WIS scores? I think they might. I'm not necessarily backing the Knowledge: Religion idea, but it is an interesting point. O'Chul would seem to be the oddest member of that group. He's not *that* smart, and while he's decently high level, nothing in his background suggests a lot of experience with weird or extra-planar creatures. Most of his level-gaining seems to have been from relatively conventional military battles, as far as we know.

Really, the only thing he brings to the table that would even suggest a reason he'd be able to identify MitD is his paladin levels, and thus the *possibility* that he has a decent WIS and ranks in Knowledge: Religion. We don't *know* he has either of those, just that he might. Its hard to see what else he might have in common with the other folks in that group.

That having been said, its worth remembering that Knowledge: Religion isn't restricted to undead. It could potentially allow knowledge of anything that's a servant of a deity or god-like creature. So, at least arguably demons, devils, maybe Slaad (that's probably pushing it), and certainly anything that's clearly a deific-servitor, but not Proteans or ANBs.

[b_jonas]

The fourth issue of the Giant's “A Monster for Every Season” drawings is available now. This time too we should check the list of creatures included. Although it's not very likely that the MitD is there, it's best to check because it would be so embarrassing if the Giant managed to hide the solution under our noses like that. Even if the MitD isn't there, it could give ideas.

Spoiler: Complete list for winter issue

Show

Winter

• Air (Page 6) / Aerial Servant / Air Elemental (Huge) / Air Elemental (Large) / Air Elemental (Medium) / Air Elemental (Small) / Air Grue / Arrowhawk (Elder) / Arrowhawk (Adult) / Arrowhawk (Juvenile) / Belker / Dust Devil / Giant Eagle / Giant Owl / Giant Vulture / Invisible Stalker / Peryton / Riding Cloud / Roc (Adult) / Roc (Young) / Roc Chick / Shardstorm Vortex / Storm Archon Lightning Walker / Storm Archon Squallshield / Storm Archon Tempest Weaver / Storm Elemental (Large) / Sylph / Tempest Wisp / Thunderbird / Thunderblast Cyclone / Wind Oracle / Windstriker
• Barbarians (Page 11) / Dragonborn Barbarian / Dwarf Barbarian (Female) x2 / Dwarf Barbarian (Male) x2 / Elf Barbarian x3 / Goliath Barbarian (Female) / Goliath Barbarian (Male) / Halfling Barbarian (Female) / Halfling Barbarian (Male) / Half-Ogre Barbarian (Female) / Half-Ogre Barbarian (Male) / Half-Orc Barbarian (Female) x7 / Half-Orc Barbarian (Male) x7 / Human Barbarian (Female) x5 / Human Barbarian (Male) x5 / Shifter Barbarian (Female) x2 / Shifter Barbarian (Male) x2 / Warforged Barbarian
• Bugbears (Page 14) / Bugbear (Female) / Bugbear (Male) / Bugbear Barbarian (Female) / Bugbear Barbarian (Male) / Bugbear Chief / Bugbear Civilian / Bugbear Warrior (Female) / Bugbear Warrior (Male) / Bugbear Ranger / Bugbear Rogue (Female) / Bugbear Rogue (Male) / Bugbear Sergeant / Bugbear Shaman / Bugbear Strangler)
• Cold (Page 15) / Abominable Yeti / Chillfire Destroyer / Dire Polar Bear / Dire Rhinoceros / Evil Snowman / Frost Dwarf (Female) / Frost Dwarf (Male) / Frost Salamander / Frost Worm / Giant Arctic Fox / Glyptodon / Ice Archon Rimehammer / Ice Archon Hellscourge / Ice Archon Frostshaper / Ice Assassin / Ice Oracle / Ice Para-Elemental (Huge) / Ice Para-Elemental (Large) / Ice Para-Elemental (Medium) / Ice Para-Elemental (Small) / Ice Troll / Neanderthal (Female) / Neanderthal (Male) / Neanderthal Chief / Neanderthal Mystic / Rejkar / Remorhaz / Remorhaz (Young) / Snow Elf (Female) / Snow Elf (Male) / Snow Elf Wizard / Uldra (Female) / Uldra (Male) / Urskan (Armored Bear) / Wendigo / Winter Wolf / Wooly Mammoth / Yeti
• Dinosaurs (Page 21) / Allosaurus / Ankylosaurus (Macetail Behemoth) / Bloodstriker / Brontosaurus / Deinoychus / Elasmosaurus / Fleshraker / Megaraptor / Plesiosaurus / Pteranodon / Quetzalcoatlus / Stegosaurus (Bloodspike Behemoth) / Swindlespitter / Triceratops / Tyrannosaurus Rex
• Dragons (Page 25) / Blue Dragon (Gargantuan) / Blue Dragon (Huge) / Blue Dragon (Large) / Blue Dragon (Medium) / Blue Dragon (Small) / White Dragon (Gargantuan) / White Dragon (Huge) / White Dragon (Large) / White Dragon (Medium) / White Dragon (Small) / White Dragon (Tiny)
• Dungeon Objects (Page 28) / Anvil / Bear Trap / Campfire / Cauldron / Chest (Medium) / Chest (Small) / Crystal Ball / Sack of Treasure / Swirly Portal / Weapon Rack
• Earth (Page 29) / Crysmal / Earth Archon Groundrager / Earth Archon Rumbler / Earth Archon Seismic Striker / Earth Elemental (Huge) / Earth Elemental (Large) / Earth Elemental (Medium) / Earth Elemental (Small) / Earth Grue / Earth Oracle / Earthwind Ravager / Galeb Duhr / Galeb Duhr Rockcaller / Gargoyle / Margoyle / Mud Buddy / Mud Lasher / Pech (Female) / Pech (Male) / Rockfist Smasher / Sandling / Stone Spike / Stormstone Fury / Xaren / Xorn (Elder) / Xorn (Adult) / Xorn (Juvenile)
• Genies (Page 32) / Dao (Female) / Dao (Male) / Djinn (Female) / Djinn (Male) / Djinn Noble / Djinn Thunderer
• Giants (Page 33) / Cloud Giant (Female) / Cloud Giant (Male) / Earth Titan / Ettin (Female) / Ettin (Male) / Frost Giant (Female) / Frost Giant (Male) / Frost Giant Berserker / Frost Giant Jarl / Hill Giant (Female) / Hill Giant (Male) / Minotaur / Minotaur Warrior / Stone Giant (Female) / Stone Giant (Male)
• Oozes (Page 36) / Arcane Ooze / Awakened Ooze / Black Pudding / Elder Black Pudding / Gelatinous Cube (Huge) / Gelatinous Cube (Large) / Green Slime / Grey Ooze / Mimic (Chest) / Ochre Jelly / Oozeform (Male) / Oozeform (Female) / Slithering Tracker / Stunjelly / Yellow Mold
• Rogues (Page 39) / Changeling Rogue / Dragonborn Rogue / Drow Rogue (Female) / Drow Rogue (Male) / Dwarf Rogue (Female) / Dwarf Rogue (Male) / Elf Rogue x3 / Gnome Rogue (Female) x2 / Gnome Rogue (Male) x2 / Halfling Rogue (Female) x4 / Halfling Rogue (Male) x4 / Half-Orc Rogue (Female) / Half-Orc Rogue (Male) / High Elf Rogue (Female) / High Elf Rogue (Male) / Human Rogue (Female) x7 / Human Rogue (Male) x7 / Ratfolk Rogue (Female) / Ratfolk Rogue (Male) / Tiefling Rogue (Female) / Tiefling Rogue (Male) / Warforged Rogue
• Townfolk (Page 42) / Bartender (Female) / Bartender (Male) / Beggar / Blacksmith (Female) / Blacksmith (Male) / Chicken / Child (Female) / Child (Male) x2 / Cow / Dwarf Blacksmith / Merchant (Female) / Merchant (Male) / Pig / Shopkeeper (Female) / Shopkeeper (Male) / Waitress x2 / Waiter / Village Elder (Female) / Village Elder (Male) / Commoner (Female) x3 / Commoner (Male) x3 / Tavern Drunk
• Underfolk (Page 44) / Deep Gnome (Female) / Deep Gnome (Male) x2 / Deep Gnome Cleric / Deep Gnome Elder / Deep Gnome Illusionist / Deep Gnome Stoneshaper / Derro (Female) / Derro (Male) / Derro Savant / Derro Scout / Doppelganger / Doppelganger Assassin / Gibberling / Grey Dwarf (Female) / Grey Dwarf (Male) / Grey Dwarf Artificer / Grey Dwarf Blackguard / Grey Dwarf General / Grey Dwarf Psychic Warrior / Grey Dwarf Slavedriver / Grimlock (Female) / Grimlock (Male) / Grimlock Chief / Skulk (Female) / Skulk (Male) / Molefolk / Molefolk Assassin / Molefolk Wizard / Mongrelfolk x3 / Quaggoth (Female) / Quaggoth (Male) / Quaggoth Barbarian / Medusa / Medusa Archer / Medusa Bard / Medusa Warrior (Maedar) / Shadowfolk Chainfighter / Shadowfolk Gloomblade / Shadowfolk Warrior / Shadowfolk Witch
• Weird (Page 47) / Aboleth / Aboleth Mage / Aboleth Overseer / Aboleth Servitor / Balhannoth / Behir / Blink Dog / Bulette / Catoblepas / Choker / Cloaker / Cockatrice / Corpse Creeper / Darkmantle / Death Kiss / Die Tyrant / Delver / Destrachan / Digester / Dire Bulette / Enormous Corpse Creeper / Eyeball / Eye Director / Eye Tyrant / Eye Tyrant (Elder) / Eye Tyrant (Lesser) / Eye Tyrant Mage / Fire Eye Tyrant / Flumph / Gas Spore / Gibbering Abomination / Gibbering Mouther / Gibbering Orb / Girallon / Gouger / Grell / Grell Patriarch / Grell Philosopher / Grey Render / Grick / Grick Alpha / Hook Horror / Iron Gorgon / Misplacement Panther / Misplacement Panther Pack Lord / Neeohghee / Neeohghee Defiler / Neo-Otyugh / Otyugh / Roper / Shocker Lizard / Skum / Spectator / Stirge / Truly Horrid Umber Hulk / Umber Hulk / Yrthak

Now let me reduce this list, just like I did the previous time. I remove the dungeon objects and the oozes. I remove the class levels, roles, titles, genders, size or age categories, and multipliers from the monsters, and keep only the species and each species only once. I remove the entries that are only titles without a species listed (eg. Shopkeeper). I also remove species that occur in the list of the previous three seasons.

Spoiler: Reduced list of monsters for winter issue

Show

Winter

• Air: / Aerial Servant / Air Elemental / Air Grue / Arrowhawk / Belker / Dust Devil / Invisible Stalker / Peryton / Riding Cloud / Roc / Shardstorm Vortex / Storm Archon / Storm Elemental / Sylph / Tempest Wisp / Thunderbird / Thunderblast Cyclone / Wind Oracle / Windstriker
• Barbarians: / Goliath / Shifter / Warforged
• Bugbears: / Bugbear
• Cold: / Abominable Yeti / Chillfire Destroyer / Dire Polar Bear / Dire Rhinoceros / Evil Snowman / Frost Dwarf / Frost Salamander / Frost Worm / Arctic Fox / Glyptodon / Ice Archon / Ice Assassin / Ice Oracle / Ice Para-Elemental / Ice Troll / Neanderthal / Rejkar / Remorhaz / Snow Elf / Uldra / Urskan (Armored Bear) / Wendigo / Winter Wolf / Wooly Mammoth / Yeti
• Dinosaurs: / Allosaurus / Ankylosaurus (Macetail Behemoth) / Bloodstriker / Brontosaurus / Deinoychus / Elasmosaurus / Fleshraker / Megaraptor / Plesiosaurus / Pteranodon / Quetzalcoatlus / Stegosaurus (Bloodspike Behemoth) / Swindlespitter / Triceratops / Tyrannosaurus Rex
• Dragons: / Blue Dragon / White Dragon
• Earth: / Crysmal / Earth Archon / Earth Elemental / Earth Grue / Earth Oracle / Earthwind Ravager / Galeb Duhr / Gargoyle / Margoyle / Mud Buddy / Mud Lasher / Pech / Rockfist Smasher / Sandling / Stone Spike / Stormstone Fury / Xaren / Xorn
• Genies: / Dao / Djinn
• Giants: / Cloud Giant / Earth Titan / Ettin / Frost Giant / Hill Giant / Minotaur / Stone Giant
• Rogues: / Changeling / Ratfolk
• Townfolk: / Chicken / Cow / Pig
• Underfolk: / Deep Gnome / Derro / Gibberling / Grey Dwarf / Grimlock / Skulk / Molefolk / Mongrelfolk / Quaggoth / Medusa / Shadowfolk
• Weird: / Aboleth / Balhannoth / Behir / Blink Dog / Bulette / Catoblepas / Choker / Cloaker / Cockatrice / Corpse Creeper / Darkmantle / Death Kiss / Die Tyrant / Delver / Destrachan / Digester / Dire Bulette / Eyeball / Eye Director / Eye Tyrant / Fire Eye Tyrant / Flumph / Gas Spore / Gibbering Abomination / Gibbering Mouther / Gibbering Orb / Girallon / Gouger / Grell / Grey Render / Grick / Grick Alpha / Hook Horror / Iron Gorgon / Misplacement Panther / Neeohghee / Neeohghee Defiler / Neo-Otyugh / Otyugh / Roper / Shocker Lizard / Skum / Spectator / Stirge / Truly Horrid Umber Hulk / Umber Hulk / Yrthak

Particularly notable from the list is the Neeohghee on account that I can find absolutely no information about it on the internet despite that it has an easily searchable name. Does anyone happen to know what that is? If anything, it's a great example to show people the next time the “Haven't you checked all D&D creatures by now?” FAQ comes up.

See also the list for the previous three issues. The Giant also made it clear that there'll be more issues after these four, probably four more, because there are so many creatures that haven't got the spotlight yet.

[ti'esar]

The "neeohghee" is the copyright-friendly version of the neogi, a monster from the old Spelljammer setting (though it's still present in 3E) - similar to the "kooa-toowa" or however it was spelled from one of the previous sets.

[Irish Musician]

I also kind of feel like a Protean is...cheating, I guess? Any power or spell it needs can be explained away with a "timely shapeshift into the exact specific creature" needed...that seems dangerously close to violating the spirit of a guessing game, IMO. That being said...we HAVE put it up as a guess, so maybe not.

Or, instead of cheating, we have just figured out the answer and instead are making ourselves crazy by picking it apart as "cheating" (and entertaining Rich in the process), as opposed to just agreeing that it is best choice that is able to explain everything.

Then again, it might not be the right answer. Which, again, sets us off into the guessing paths

I just want to know the answer! I had a dream two weeks ago that I had figured it out, and it's been haunting me ever since.

Since I joined in 2011 (holy crap, that long ago) and met GW in a Pbp game and he showed me this thread, I've been rabid to know what the MitD is. And I cannot wait/am utterly dreading the point where Rich unveils him. It will be a double edged Longsword at that point. We will finally have our answer, but that will mean the comic is at its end.

Until then, I will continue to have fun seeing all the arguments and counter arguments as to why one thing or another is or isn't the MitD.

[Darth Paul]

And I cannot wait/am utterly dreading the point where Rich unveils him. It will be a double edged Longsword at that point. We will finally have our answer, but that will mean the comic is at its end.

I guess that depends on what point the Giant has decided for the big reveal. It might not necessarily be the end. It will definitely be a climax of some sort, and certainly closer to the end than the beginning, but there's no way to know for sure at what point we'll learn the answer.

I doubt that it will happen very near "The End" end, because that would mean that MitD (who, although a major player, is after all a member of Team Evil) has pretty much upstaged Roy & Co. Then again, I'm very often wrong, so I fully expect to be wrong here too. After all,

Spoiler: possibly unnecessary Start of Darkness spoiler

Show

there's Xykon's hypnotic order to the Monster to keep in mind... if it's still in effect, whenever Redcloak's betrayal happens, then MitD is supposed to devour him and spit out the holy symbol. Redcloak's betrayal, assuming it comes, should be relatively near the end of the story... and you would think that this would be a moment for the MitD to reveal himself.

[Emanick]

Yeah, I expect it to happen, I don't know, 65 strips from the end? As part of the climax, but not, like, in the last scene or anything.

[Riftwolf]

As an aside, how long (in terms of strips) do you think it'll be before we get additional info about MitD? The last bit involving Xykon and Redcloak felt very much like a holding pattern; they'll be stuck at Kraagors Tomb for the foreseeable future, so there's no need for cutaways till the current story threads over. I'd guess this means no new canon MitD clues will appear till the end of the book/beginning of the next one. But I've been wrong before.

[Irish Musician]

*the end times*[/SPOILER]

Yeah, I expect it to happen, I don't know, 65 strips from the end? As part of the climax, but not, like, in the last scene or anything.

I mean I didn't mean the literal end, as in the last few panels or anything. But the Giant isn't going to unveil our big guy until the comic is going to be near its end for good, I'd wager. So the end of the OOTS comics will then soon be done with, after, 15 years+ at that point. Will just be a sad day when that end comes.

[Shining Wrath]

I think MitD used a Wish-like ability to see to it that O-Chul could "Escape". That's the known spell (or Miracle) that best describes what happens - MitD wants O-Chul to get away, concentrates / tries really hard, and it happens. If you state the Wish as "I wish for my friend O-Chul and the elf he is trying to save, to escape" there's a few ways to answer that, but one way is to teleport them to mutual friends. There's obviously others, but this DM interpreted Wish in a benevolent fashion.

The MitD will be revealed during the final battle - at some point, it really has to decide that it's going to stop Xykon and / or Redcloak. I think another criterion, meta-wise, is that MitD has to be powerful enough to impress Xykon and do all the things we know he can do, but not so powerful as to act as an unbeatable power than can choose who wins and who loses in the climactic battle. In the end the fate of the world has to come down to the OotS, not MitD.

[Goblin_Priest]

I think MitD used a Wish-like ability to see to it that O-Chul could "Escape". That's the known spell (or Miracle) that best describes what happens - MitD wants O-Chul to get away, concentrates / tries really hard, and it happens. If you state the Wish as "I wish for my friend O-Chul and the elf he is trying to save, to escape" there's a few ways to answer that, but one way is to teleport them to mutual friends. There's obviously others, but this DM interpreted Wish in a benevolent fashion.

The MitD will be revealed during the final battle - at some point, it really has to decide that it's going to stop Xykon and / or Redcloak. I think another criterion, meta-wise, is that MitD has to be powerful enough to impress Xykon and do all the things we know he can do, but not so powerful as to act as an unbeatable power than can choose who wins and who loses in the climactic battle. In the end the fate of the world has to come down to the OotS, not MitD.

Sure thing, but just about no creatures have the ability to cast either Wish or Miracle.

[Shining Wrath]

Sure thing, but just about no creatures have the ability to cast either Wish or Miracle.

There are some - or MitD has class levels of which he is unaware (e.g., has amnesia).

[zimmerwald1915]

I think something as simple as, "I wish O-Chul and that elf were with their friends" would have been sufficient (particularly if the Wish decided that Hinjo and/or one or more members of the Order of the Stick were the only person/people who could be described as friend(s) to both Vaarsuvius and O-Chul).

That'd be quite the generous Wish, given the events of the book which comprehensively estranged Vaarsuvius, at least, from all those individuals. But all scenarios involving Wish assume it's generous, or at least not out to get MitD a la the monkey's paw.

[Goblin_Priest]

There are some - or MitD has class levels of which he is unaware (e.g., has amnesia).

There are some, and they tend to have other abilities/traits that would seemingly disqualify them.

As for class levels, a "HA! He's actually a CR2 creature with 18 levels in sorcerer!" would be incredibly anticlimactic.

[Kornaki]

That'd be quite the generous Wish, given the events of the book which comprehensively estranged Vaarsuvius, at least, from all those individuals. But all scenarios involving Wish assume it's generous, or at least not out to get MitD a la the monkey's paw.

I don't agree at all. Wish can duplicate any 8th level spell or lower with no negative side effects. Wishing V and O'chul to rejoin his friends and making it happen is not so much more powerful as to warrant a negative side effect. Wish is intended to be issued as a powerful resource, not a giant middle finger to anyone who uses it.

[Keltest]

I don't agree at all. Wish can duplicate any 8th level spell or lower with no negative side effects. Wishing V and O'chul to rejoin his friends and making it happen is not so much more powerful as to warrant a negative side effect. Wish is intended to be issued as a powerful resource, not a giant middle finger to anyone who uses it.

I believe the generosity is allegedly in describing V as having friends at that point. There was a good deal of antagonizing done to Elan and Durkon on the boat, plus his personal animosity at the time towards Haley for invalidating his ability to show off and Belkar for being Belkar.

I'm not sure I agree, but I'm pretty sure that was the intent.

[Goblin_Priest]

There's also the potentiel explanation of "MitD cast a normal teleport spell but was under the influence of dimensional anchor, which did not prevent him from using the spell but only stopped him from being moved with it".

A little gamey and off-flavor, but, could be argued to be RAW if I remember correctly.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

There's also the potentiel explanation of "MitD cast a normal teleport spell but was under the influence of dimensional anchor, which did not prevent him from using the spell but only stopped him from being moved with it".

A little gamey and off-flavor, but, could be argued to be RAW if I remember correctly.

There is nothing gamey about the effect of dimensional anchor:
" Any creature or object struck by the ray is covered with a shimmering emerald field that completely blocks extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred by a dimensional anchor include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like or psionic abilities. The spell also prevents the use of a gate or teleportation circle for the duration of the spell." (emphasis mine)

There is nothing there about stopping you from casting those spells or otherwise performing spell-like abilities that duplicate them, simply that you cannot enjoy the effects thereof.

What is problematic about the teleport explanation is the selection of a target, not the explanation for why MitD stayed put.

GW

[Kish]

But all scenarios involving Wish assume it's generous, or at least not out to get MitD a la the monkey's paw.

For my part, I feel pretty confident dismissing out of hand the idea that Rich treats Wish in general as "out to get" the caster. Call me crazy.

[Doug Lampert]

I don't agree at all. Wish can duplicate any 8th level spell or lower with no negative side effects. Wishing V and O'chul to rejoin his friends and making it happen is not so much more powerful as to warrant a negative side effect. Wish is intended to be issued as a powerful resource, not a giant middle finger to anyone who uses it.

3.5 Wish can NOT duplicate any spell of 8th level or lower.
Wish can safely:
Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 8th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
Duplicate any other spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 7th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.
Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.
...
Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

For my part, I feel pretty confident dismissing out of hand the idea that Rich treats Wish in general as "out to get" the caster. Call me crazy.

Ditto. A wish within the normal limits is supposed to just work, and "teleport 2 people" is FAR below the normal limits.

Rich has no reason to disallow such a wish, and the plot works best if the power works.