MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

[Ruck]

Well for one, she opened up her dialogue with a massive misjudgment about the MITD and his relationship with Xykon. One could also easily interpret Greyview's comments as indicating she has a somewhat poor understanding of her relationship with him as well, although that's not the only possible reading there. Regardless, she isn't an all-knowing encyclopedia of beastdom.

Beyond that though, most monsters that have abnormal growth cycles go through metamorphoses and change form, like Slaads. I haven't heard of any creatures in D&D that go through decades long periods of no growth whatsoever before suddenly undergoing a massive growth spurt. If you can find one, I will examine the evidence and reconsider my position, but until then "the MITD is a runt for some reason" seems a more likely explanation than "the MITD is going to spontaneously become incredibly massive all at once"

That's a false dichotomy, though.

Given the life cycles of some monsters (I'm not a D&D expert, but as Grey Wolf pointed out, it takes a black dragon 800 years to upgrade in size), it seems entirely reasonable to me that, in the relatively short time in-comic we've seen the Monster, he hasn't grown yet.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Given the life cycles of some monsters (I'm not a D&D expert, but as Grey Wolf pointed out, it takes a black dragon 800 years to upgrade in size), it seems entirely reasonable to me that, in the relatively short time in-comic we've seen the Monster, he hasn't grown yet.

More importantly, other than human and dragons and maybe a few other exceptions here and there, there is no RAW for how creatures grow. Especially for epic creatures, however, lore tends to be that they live for long periods of time and sleep a great deal, probably to explain why they don't destroy civilisation every other week.

If MitD is, say, the Athasian Nightmare Beast, we have no idea how long it lives, nor how long it takes it to reach full maturity. Rich can literally make up whatever he wants, and if he decides that it takes him 1000 years, who is to say otherwise?

Grey Wolf

[Emanick]

There’s also precedent for Rich taking the rules very literally, almost comically so. Remember when he said that people keel over at 12:01am on their birthday when they die of old age? It wouldn’t be any stranger if dragons suddenly doubled in size when they advanced a size category to Young Adult at age 100 or whatever.

Additionally, there’s only several panels where we see the MitD more than a couple of years ago. Is he clearly almost exactly the same size there? If it’s ambiguous, than this whole thing is moot.

[Jay R]

There’s also precedent for Rich taking the rules very literally, almost comically so.

Not "almost comically so".

Only comically so. He does it when he can make a joke out of it.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Not "almost comically so".

Only comically so. He does it when he can make a joke out of it.

No, not just then. Unlike Roger, once Rich establishes something happens, even if it was as a joke, he sticks with it - he pointed out that the fact the characters can tell status effects like mind control due to swirly eyes was introduced as a joke with the black dragon, but now he is stuck with it.

GW

[Peelee]

Not "almost comically so".

Only comically so. He does it when he can make a joke out of it.

Irrelevant to anything being discussed here, but damn the shading on Roger as the light changes there is amazing. I want to rewatch that movie based on that gif alone.

[Jay R]

No, not just then. Unlike Roger, once Rich establishes something happens, even if it was as a joke, he sticks with it - he pointed out that the fact the characters can tell status effects like mind control due to swirly eyes was introduced as a joke with the black dragon, but now he is stuck with it.

GW

Agreed. He did it for comic effect - but kept it out of consistency.

Which still fits my point. He won't take the rules over-literally at the reveal of the MitD - unless he can make it funny.

[But since he can make almost anything funny, that's not really much of a restriction.]

[luna the cat]

What if the Monster in Darkness is somehow key to the gate? I know that there the gates themselves can't move since they are built over static positions, but what if the Monster in Darkness is somehow linked to Serini's plan for the gate?

Serini built Kragor's tomb to honor Kragor and his belief in the supremacy of powerful monsters, but what if that was a feint of sorts? What if Serini really protected the gate using something more subtle, like a monster that holds the key to actually getting to the gate if you become friends with it and compromise?

Since the MitD has been subtly foiling the villain's plans for a while now, it may be appropriate if the MitD himself is part of Serini's plan. She's noted as "not the type for retiring" so I even thought it may be possible that she turned herself into the MitD somehow, but I don't think that's seriously likely... But it does suggest to me that Serini had something more to her plan than just honoring Kragor.

[b_jonas]

Serini built Kragor's tomb to honor Kragor and his belief in the supremacy of powerful monsters, but what if that was a feint of sorts? What if Serini really protected the gate using something more subtle, like a monster that holds the key to actually getting to the gate if you become friends with it and compromise?

See also two threads before about previous ideas about other ways how the MitD could be related to Serini's strong monsters.

[Throknor]

What if the Monster in Darkness is somehow key to the gate? I know that there the gates themselves can't move since they are built over static positions, but what if the Monster in Darkness is somehow linked to Serini's plan for the gate?

Serini built Kragor's tomb to honor Kragor and his belief in the supremacy of powerful monsters, but what if that was a feint of sorts? What if Serini really protected the gate using something more subtle, like a monster that holds the key to actually getting to the gate if you become friends with it and compromise?

Since the MitD has been subtly foiling the villain's plans for a while now, it may be appropriate if the MitD himself is part of Serini's plan. She's noted as "not the type for retiring" so I even thought it may be possible that she turned herself into the MitD somehow, but I don't think that's seriously likely... But it does suggest to me that Serini had something more to her plan than just honoring Kragor.

I don't remember what her exact class was but I'm fairly certain she wouldn't have had the magical requirements to do such a thing. As I recall Lorien & Durokan worked together to seal the gates around closed rifts magically - once that was done each member guarded their own gate however they wished. Not sure how she could have 'keyed' a monster to it afterwards.

That's not even considering that having the MITD sitting in some rain forest and through a wild series of coincidences just happening to get close to a group that eventually makes their way to her gate (after failing at the others) is about the worst defensive plan ever.

[Quartz]

Remind me, has it been established whether the Monster's ability to see through the darkness of the umbrella is a property of the monster or the umbrella?

[Keltest]

Remind me, has it been established whether the Monster's ability to see through the darkness of the umbrella is a property of the monster or the umbrella?

Actually, as far as I can recall, its only ever been joked that the monster struggles to see out of it. Ive always interpreted his eyes being visible and him being able to see as artistic license with the magical darkness.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Remind me, has it been established whether the Monster's ability to see through the darkness of the umbrella is a property of the monster or the umbrella?

His inability to see through magical darkness predates the umbrella.

GW

[luna the cat]

I don't remember what her exact class was but I'm fairly certain she wouldn't have had the magical requirements to do such a thing. As I recall Lorien & Durokan worked together to seal the gates around closed rifts magically - once that was done each member guarded their own gate however they wished. Not sure how she could have 'keyed' a monster to it afterwards.

That's not even considering that having the MITD sitting in some rain forest and through a wild series of coincidences just happening to get close to a group that eventually makes their way to her gate (after failing at the others) is about the worst defensive plan ever.

I get what you're saying, but the MITD being involved with the gate somehow has a very Lord of the Rings (gollum making it all the way to the volcano), or even a Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade feel (Xyklon and red cloak choosing the different monster holes like the Nazis chose grails rather than thinking laterally or the way a friendly hobbit that values friendship might think to design a way to protect something)

I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of DnD so, I don't know what sort of monster would fit thematically with "Serini designed the gate around a macguffin monster that you have to befriend", but that would be my guess of what the MitD is.

[Quartz]

His inability to see through magical darkness predates the umbrella.

Actually, per #23, those are natural shadows, not magical darkness. This mitigates against the Uvuudaum, which has blindsight, and for the Athasian Nightmare Beast, which does not.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Actually, per #23, those are natural shadows, not magical darkness.

"Actually", no they are not.

GW

[Throknor]

I get what you're saying, but the MITD being involved with the gate somehow has a very Lord of the Rings (gollum making it all the way to the volcano), or even a Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade feel (Xyklon and red cloak choosing the different monster holes like the Nazis chose grails rather than thinking laterally or the way a friendly hobbit that values friendship might think to design a way to protect something)

I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of DnD so, I don't know what sort of monster would fit thematically with "Serini designed the gate around a macguffin monster that you have to befriend", but that would be my guess of what the MitD is.

Gollum knew who stole the ring and followed the fellowship once he got away from being tortured for information. The Nazis actually never got near the grail; Donovan had no clue which it was and Elsie deliberately chose a wrong grail for him.

That being said, I still don't know what you are saying. The gates were intended to never be opened and their defenses were intended to keep anyone from getting to them. Not sure how that is served by releasing a living key into the wild that can be befriended. If the Right-Eye stuck with the plan he could have taken O'Chul's place in befriending the MITD and won him over to their cause thus dooming the world (or at least the gods).

[Quartz]

"Actually", no they are not.

GW

Ooh! Good spot! (Boom boom! :))

[luna the cat]

Gollum knew who stole the ring and followed the fellowship once he got away from being tortured for information. The Nazis actually never got near the grail; Donovan had no clue which it was and Elsie deliberately chose a wrong grail for him.

That being said, I still don't know what you are saying. The gates were intended to never be opened and their defenses were intended to keep anyone from getting to them. Not sure how that is served by releasing a living key into the wild that can be befriended. If the Right-Eye stuck with the plan he could have taken O'Chul's place in befriending the MITD and won him over to their cause thus dooming the world (or at least the gods).

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html

In 830 Redcloak explains how the ritual allows one to move the gate around under divine control. Now, I don't actually remember where the ritual actually comes from (how the goblins got a hold of it), but it makes me wonder if the ritual had already been cast and that the gate is actually moving along with whatever the MitD is. Because of misdirection, people's expectations for what the gates are (in this scenario, RedCloak is the only one alive who even is aware that the gates can be moved) and the apparent ignorance and self-defense capability of the MitD, this seems like a much better defense than what the other gates rely on, both playing into Serini 'honoring Kragor's respect for the might of monsters' and Serini 'not being one to retire to one place'.

As for what this would actually mean in terms of what the MitD is, I have some further ideas, but it depends on whether what I've said so far is possible (I can't find out about when the ritual was first introduced/more about how Redcloak knows of it besides the Mantel, anything that might suggest that Serini and company actually wrote or were aware of the ritual).

[Fyraltari]

Snip

Sorry, but that is not how it works.

So, no, the Gate or the rift could not have been physically moved. The Sapphire could be moved, and Xykon would have been obligated to track it down and undo its magic before he could perform his ritual, but there would be a risk in doing so, and it wouldn't really have stopped Xykon from sieging the city at that point (because he still would have needed the immovable Gate).

The use of Redcloak's magic ritual to shift the Gate into another plane is entirely unrelated, and in fact can only shift a Gate to another plane—not to another place in THIS plane. Think of it like moving a Bag of Holding from the Prime to an Outer Plane: you've moved the entranceway to an extradimensional space, but opening it still leads to the same interior.

Hopefully, that clears the issue up.

I don't think the Great Beast in Darkness will be related to the gate but in defense of your argument I will point out that there is precedent to a test of character as a defense of the gates : Dorukan's last enchantment on his.

EDIT: also considering Red knows the ritual thanks to the Mantle, I assume the Dark One devised it.

[Quartz]

How much of a tell is the Monster recognising the Ritual? The Uvuudaum has both Knowledge: Religion and Knowledge: Arcana at +52 but the Athasian Nightmare Beast has neither skill.

[luna the cat]

Sorry, but that is not how it works.


I don't think the Great Beast in Darkness will be related to the gate but in defense of your argument I will point out that there is precedent to a test of character as a defense of the gates : Dorukan's last enchantment on his.

EDIT: also considering Red knows the ritual thanks to the Mantle, I assume the Dark One devised it.

I'm confused, if the sapphire can be moved, does the gate move with it...?

Edit: Nevermind, clicked through to the original post

[Insane Jeenyus]

I saw something that may or may not have been pointed out yet in 833. The MITD seems to know about the astral plane.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I saw something that may or may not have been pointed out yet in 833. The MITD seems to know about the astral plane.

See Section 2c: Connection to the Astral Plane

GW

[Peelee]

I saw something that may or may not have been pointed out yet in 833. The MITD seems to know about the astral plane.

It has been noted, yes. Any chance you have any theories on that? It's always nice to hear new thoughts.

[Insane Jeenyus]

I wish I had time to research it. I just started a new job - the first work in 6 years. I tire very easily still.

[Darth Paul]

I wish I had time to research it. I just started a new job - the first work in 6 years. I tire very easily still.

Congratulations. (Not on being tired... on the... you know, employment.)

[Ruck]

Now, I don't actually remember where the ritual actually comes from (how the goblins got a hold of it)

The Crimson Mantle imbues its wearer, presuming they are indeed a priest of the Dark One, with knowledge of the ritual. (I presume it has knowledge of both the arcane and divine halves, and Redcloak wrote down the arcane half for Xykon, being that he wouldn't be able to cast it himself.)

[Crusher]

How much of a tell is the Monster recognising the Ritual? The Uvuudaum has both Knowledge: Religion and Knowledge: Arcana at +52 but the Athasian Nightmare Beast has neither skill.

Hard to say. Might be a plus. Then again, maybe he has aome sort of telepathy and read her mind. Or maybe he’s an amnesiac servitor of the Dark One and knew it that way. Or maybe he’s a race with innate divine and arcane casting. Or maybe he’s got like a 40 INT. Or maybe...

The point being, its PROBABLY a plus, but there are a bunch of other possible explanations (some more probable than others) which would also explain it.

[VelociRapture12]

Is it possible that MitD was plane shifted from the astral plane? He talks about possibly rembering something in strip #833 http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html