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    Default Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Welcome to the Relationship Woes and Advice thread, home of any questions you may have: romantic or familial or friendship, we'll answer (or try to answer) them all. Eight years old and growing. This isn't a trade economy- feel free to ask if you have a question, even if you haven't ever given advice and don't intend to start. We won't stone you or ignore you or anything. All we ask is to know how a situation ends up, either in this thread or through a PM.

    List of people with opened PM boxes:

    -Asteron Questar
    -Anyone else who wants to be added to the list


    Here are the basics.

    The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.

    Rules Of Relationships:
    #1- Communicate. If you can't talk with your partner, it's probably not going to work.

    #2- Be yourself. Admittedly, if you have some really bad habits you should probably try to change them, but be honest about who you are. No one wants to find out they were loving a lie, and no one likes to live a lie (...well, normally).

    #3- Accept your partner. In mine, and other people's, experience you have to be able to accept your partner as they are, because they probably won't be able to change. Also, don't change drastically for someone. I've tried it, my friends have tried it, it doesn't work and it doesn't end pretty.

    #4- Hints. Do. Not. Work. Or they might, but the chance of that happening is limited. Some people are like me and just utterly oblivious unless it is blatantly stated, others are (also like me) and don't want to assume, and yet others don't care. You won't know which they belong to unless you actually spell out your intentions and/or feelings. I would consider this a corrolery to Rule #1 except that it comes up so often. Do NOT assume someone should know something from hints. Hints, by nature, are subtle. Clue Bats/Crow Bars/Mack Trucks are not. Try hitting them with one of those. ;) (No, not literally. I mean be upfront if you are trying to get someone to know something.)

    #5- Don't be desperate. You don't need to be in a relationship and the healthiest mindset is one where you are happy as you are, even if you do not have a significant other. Don't stay in a relationship that isn't good if you aren't happy, just because you want someone. This is detrimental to both parties in the long (and sometimes short) run.

    #6- Be a couple. Set aside some time every week to be together. Just an hour, if nothing else, where it's JUST you two. No computer, no others. Just the couple.

    #6.5- Maintain the relationship. Ask your partner every now and then how they are feeling, if they feel like the relationship is still going in a good direction, etc. Also, make sure you don't hide it if you have an issue with your partner or a relationship. The only way it can change is if you talk about it.

    #7- Let your boundaries be known. This goes for everything from intimacy to what you consider cheating to any other thing you can think of. Pretty much if it's something that would possibly upset you or your partner, let them know BEFORE a problem arises. An example would be letting your partner know you consider kissing cheating. They very well might think only intercourse is cheating. Having that known before anything potentially happens is a good thing.

    #8- Know the signs of an abusive relationship. Both men and women can be abusers, and if you recognize the signs early on you are more likely to be able to get out of a bad situation before it gets out of hand. It's never easy, but if you know the general red flags, it can help you to avoid the situation.

    A list - courtesy of Pheehelm

    RULES. YOU READ THESE.
    -Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

    -KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

    -Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

    -We are not allowed to dispense advice that should be handled by a professional, including psychological or medical advice.

    I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

    So please - play nice, and if you're not comfortable talking about things over the open board, PM one of the regulars (too many to mention), and I'm sure they'll be willing to lend an ear - or if you're not sure who to PM, post asking for someone to PM you, and you'll soon get a response.

    -Syka


    Spoiler: Previous Threads
    Show

    -Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
    -Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine
    -Relationship Woes and Advice 24: In which the heroine gets the hero, or vice versa.
    -Relationship Woes and Advice 23: Answer Unclear, Try Again
    -Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution
    -Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping
    -Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
    -Relationship Woes and Advice 19: Whatever Lola Wants.
    -Relationship Woes and Advice 18: Finally Legal in Hollywood
    -Relationship Woes and Advice 17: natural numbers
    -Relationship Woes and Advice: Sweet Sixteen
    -Relationship Woes and Advice: 15-Love
    -Relationship Woes and Advice: A Sleepless Fortnight
    -Relationship Woes and Advice: The Thirteenth Woerier
    -In the 12th Relationship Woes and Advice Thread, my true friend gave to me...
    -Relationship Woes and Advice - X (but not the factor)
    -Relationship Woes and Advice, The Bridge Across Forever
    -Relationship Woes and Advice, Trip to Baator
    -Relationship Woes and Advice, 2 cubed
    -Relationship Woes and Advice, The Seventh Saga
    -Relationship Woes & Advice, Sex (6, you dirty minds!)
    -Relationship Woes & Advice, Part V
    -Relationship Woes and Advice, Part IV
    -Relationships Woes & Advice III (Read First Post)
    -Relationship Woes And Advice, Part Two (Read First Post)
    -Relationship Woes and Advice (read the first post, please)
    Yes, there is no thread 11, but there is 9.5. That's what makes it special.



    We have a sister thread in Personal Woes and Advice, which is suited for any woes you may have with things unrelated to relationships.
    Last edited by Aedilred; 2016-07-17 at 09:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 40/2+7: Any Younger and it's Creepy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
    I'm doing better at just accepting that she really does love me and want to be with me-- moreover, I'm trying to shake the thought pattern that being with me is a 'bad' thing for her, or that I'm making things worse for her by being with her. I'm telling myself 'that's not reality, that's the neurosis. Don't repeat that in your head-- remember the times she's said she loves you even during the tough times and told you that you make her happier than she's been in years.'
    She obviously wants to be with you of her own free will, and you've correctly identified that your pessimism isn't justified at all. Even at work, you should try to keep in mind that she's happier with you than she has been in years. Easier said than done, and I know you know all this. You're doing the right thing, IMO.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Sheriff: Several threads in appropriate for this forum were removed. Please keep to appropriate topics and keep it civil in here.
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2016-07-17 at 11:50 PM.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycunadari View Post
    (Not replying to any of more of the discussion, it has already hurt my mental health enough.)

    A few thoughts for Helio (and sorry for participating in derailing the conversation):

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    Are you familiar with the split attraction model?

    Basically, you can split up the concept of attraction on several axes - romantic attraction (who you'd date), sexual attraction (who you find hot), aesthetic attraction (who you find pretty/handsome/goodlooking etc) and platonic attraction (who you'd like to be friends with). (There are more nuances to it, but I'm not articulate enough to explain them here, but I think for this situation this overview is enough.) This is mostly used by people on the asexual and aromantic spectrum and other varioriented people (people who's sexual and romantic attraction don't match) to describe their identity (I'm a biromantic asexual person, for example), but I think it's also useful to think about relationships in general.

    Think about how important the different axes are for you for different relationships. Like, for me the sexual attraction axis is obv. least important, and I place high value in the romantic and platonic parts, because I want a potential romantic partner to also be a very good friend, and I'm not interested in casual relationships, so for me to consider dating someone, they'd have to ping pretty high on these axes. Aesthetic attraction is also important, though less than the other two - I'd like my partner to be good looking, but if they're the absolute perfect match romance/friendship-wise, their looks are not going to be a dealbreaker. For someone else it might be completely different - say, someone who likes friend with benefits types of relationships might place the most importance on sexual and platonic attraction, and less on romantic and aesthetic attraction.

    So, how important are the different aspects of attraction for you? (You don't have to answer this, just something to think about). Does sexual attraction have a high priority for you? You say you'd date him, and he's a friend, so I guess that means you are at least somewhat romantically and platonically attracted to him. You didn't write if you find him good looking - do you? Because that would probably also affect your decision, depending how important aesthetic attraction is to you.

    If you've thought about how you prioritise the different aspects of attraction, then maybe you can decide if the romantic and platonic attraction you feel for him are enough to "overrule" a lack of sexual attraction, or if it's going to cause problems.

    Thanks, this is actually quite a helpful way of looking at it. I'd say platonic attraction is definitely high, romantic attraction is also quite high (which is why I had a confuse in the first place) but aesthetic and sexual attraction are very low, which is a problem for me. I do feel bad about that, though, because I think one of the primary reasons for that is that he's quite overweight, and that feels shallow. I dunno.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Thanks, this is actually quite a helpful way of looking at it. I'd say platonic attraction is definitely high, romantic attraction is also quite high (which is why I had a confuse in the first place) but aesthetic and sexual attraction are very low, which is a problem for me. I do feel bad about that, though, because I think one of the primary reasons for that is that he's quite overweight, and that feels shallow. I dunno.
    You can't help what you're into. If aesthetic and sexual attraction are important for you and they're not there, I don't think it's a good idea to try to force it, and you shouldn't feel bad about it.
    Jude P.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    I do feel bad about that, though, because I think one of the primary reasons for that is that he's quite overweight, and that feels shallow. I dunno.
    If that's indeed one of the main reasons you don't find him attractive, the good news is that being overweight is not necessarily a permanent state. Since he's already a close friend of yours, his long-term health and wellbeing probably matter to you already, and doubly so if that's the primary factor standing in the way of you two happily dating. Is he open to trying diet changes, lifestyle changes, and exercise?
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    If that's indeed one of the main reasons you don't find him attractive, the good news is that being overweight is not necessarily a permanent state. Since he's already a close friend of yours, his long-term health and wellbeing probably matter to you already, and doubly so if that's the primary factor standing in the way of you two happily dating. Is he open to trying diet changes, lifestyle changes, and exercise?
    This is a subject to approach with delicacy, mind, if at all. Overweight people are often pretty sensitive about it (they tend to know they are) and being told that that's the factor standing in the way of their getting a desirable date might not go down well at all. Especially if it's not actually the problem, and they dutifully turn themselves into a sculpted adonis to rectify things only to be rejected anyway.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Thanks, this is actually quite a helpful way of looking at it. I'd say platonic attraction is definitely high, romantic attraction is also quite high (which is why I had a confuse in the first place) but aesthetic and sexual attraction are very low, which is a problem for me. I do feel bad about that, though, because I think one of the primary reasons for that is that he's quite overweight, and that feels shallow. I dunno.
    My suggestion is, try it. It may not work, but realistically, most relationships eventually fail for one reason or another (for most people, the maximum number of successful relationships in their life is 1. And success in that sense is defined by staying together until one of you dies. Sounds bleak, but it's fairly accurate). That's no reason to avoid even trying. Plus, you have to consider that looks that please you are a factor, but you may still find that even though he does not provide you initial excitement, you still end up having significant sexual compatibility. How a person looks often has little to nothing to do with how they actually are at the dirty deed itself. And isn't everything physical beyond actual sexual chemistry mere window dressing?

    Final thought: you spend vastly more time in a relationship doing non-sexual activities. You already know you like spending time for this person, and you care for them. That's a lot of the early, awkward crap about dating out of the way.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    This is a subject to approach with delicacy, mind, if at all. Overweight people are often pretty sensitive about it (they tend to know they are) and being told that that's the factor standing in the way of their getting a desirable date might not go down well at all. Especially if it's not actually the problem, and they dutifully turn themselves into a sculpted adonis to rectify things only to be rejected anyway.
    Oh, absolutely, it's got to be handled delicately, that's for sure. I thought that went without saying.

    All things considered, though... given the parameters quoted below...

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    There's a guy I know, one of my best friends from uni. I'm pretty certain he has a crush on me. Personality-wise, I really like him, and would totally date him.
    I know that if I were that guy, and I indeed had a crush on Helio, if I could pick and choose among the following two scenarios:

    1) Helio keeps the door closed. Nothing happens. The matter of my being overweight is kept taboo and not discussed. I'm still aware that I'm overweight.

    2) I get a chance at one or more dates, the door gets slightly opened. There are risks to me if I choose to enter (it might end badly). However, that disclaimer kind of applies to all relationship attempts anyway, so it's a doubtful reason to refrain from trying.

    ... I would definitely prefer 2.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    This is a subject to approach with delicacy, mind, if at all. Overweight people are often pretty sensitive about it (they tend to know they are) and being told that that's the factor standing in the way of their getting a desirable date might not go down well at all.
    BTW, what I'm suggesting for Helio is actually something that I kind of pulled off myself already with reasonably decent success (process not over yet, though), so I know for a fact it can be done.

    If it's true that the other has a crush on you, then they will likely be receptive to the polite suggestion from you that there are a few improvements they could make to themselves in order to help matters for both of you.

    P.S. I did not get a chance last night to agree with you that frankness is one of the nice features of this thread, but I will say I think you were correct.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Thanks, this is actually quite a helpful way of looking at it. I'd say platonic attraction is definitely high, romantic attraction is also quite high (which is why I had a confuse in the first place) but aesthetic and sexual attraction are very low, which is a problem for me. I do feel bad about that, though, because I think one of the primary reasons for that is that he's quite overweight, and that feels shallow. I dunno.
    Nope. Being morbidly obese is unattractive to the majority of people who don't have a fat fetish.

    No more shallow than not being attracted to someone because they have a jacked up face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    This is a subject to approach with delicacy, mind, if at all. Overweight people are often pretty sensitive about it (they tend to know they are) and being told that that's the factor standing in the way of their getting a desirable date might not go down well at all. Especially if it's not actually the problem, and they dutifully turn themselves into a sculpted adonis to rectify things only to be rejected anyway.
    Yeah, saying lose weight to date me is generally pretty bad. Much better to approach the matter as a concerned friend, recognizing that dude's probably not going to react well. Or perhaps will react too well.

    Though on the bright side, if they do get hot, then they'd be in prime position to get over the rejection by going out and being able to pull a much more attractive pool of potential partners if they have social skills that are at least half-decent to go with the new killer bod.


    Quote Originally Posted by hustlertwo View Post
    My suggestion is, try it. It may not work, but realistically, most relationships eventually fail for one reason or another (for most people, the maximum number of successful relationships in their life is 1. And success in that sense is defined by staying together until one of you dies. Sounds bleak, but it's fairly accurate). That's no reason to avoid even trying. Plus, you have to consider that looks that please you are a factor, but you may still find that even though he does not provide you initial excitement, you still end up having significant sexual compatibility. How a person looks often has little to nothing to do with how they actually are at the dirty deed itself. And isn't everything physical beyond actual sexual chemistry mere window dressing?

    Final thought: you spend vastly more time in a relationship doing non-sexual activities. You already know you like spending time for this person, and you care for them. That's a lot of the early, awkward crap about dating out of the way.
    Despite the fact that 90% of a relationship is outside the bedroom, that remaining 10% is generally pretty important if present. It's a terrible idea, after all, for a gay man to date or marry a woman or for a lesbian to be in a relationship with a dude, both in theory and from all of the times I've seen it put into practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    I know that if I were that guy, and I indeed had a crush on Helio, if I could pick and choose among the following two scenarios:

    1) Helio keeps the door closed. Nothing happens. The matter of my being overweight is kept taboo and not discussed. I'm still aware that I'm overweight.

    2) I get a chance at one or more dates, the door gets slightly opened. There are risks to me if I choose to enter (it might end badly). However, that disclaimer kind of applies to all relationship attempts anyway, so it's a doubtful reason to refrain from trying.

    ... I would definitely prefer 2.
    Of course, there's the additional complication of not being interested in male genitals at the moment, and the possibility that they still won't be of interest even after recovering from SRS and being further along with HRT.

    If she actually could get him to be workout and diet accountability buddies and get him sculpted, it still wouldn't address the elephant trunk in the room.

    Although... Bonding in that way might help tip the balance of the scales into firm yes or no territory.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    This is a subject to approach with delicacy, mind, if at all. Overweight people are often pretty sensitive about it (they tend to know they are) and being told that that's the factor standing in the way of their getting a desirable date might not go down well at all. Especially if it's not actually the problem, and they dutifully turn themselves into a sculpted adonis to rectify things only to be rejected anyway.
    @Heliomance
    Yeah, be really careful if you go this route. Not only can you hurt an overweight person's feelings by critiquing their weight, you can actually sabotage any effort to lose weight that they have already been taking. Using yourself as a carrot to inspire weight loss also has severe backfire possibilities.

    However, if you're asked directly whether weight is a factor, don't lie either. If you don't pull off the lie you'll do even more damage and you don't really want to be a good enough liar to pull this particular lie off. If it's the major turn off you should probably admit it, if there's other stuff you think is probably factoring into a lack of attraction (especially stuff you're dealing with) you might consider listing some examples you're comfortable sharing.

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    It sounds like you've been experiencing a lot of distress related to acknowledgement of ace identity/relationships/issues. By focusing only on the relevance of your argument to the situation and not why you were so insistent on your position, I completely failed at noticing the empathy gap and probably made your issues worse. Your identity and feelings are valid, I apologize for any harm done, and I hope you're feeling better.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    i hate my life. PM if you want me to talk about it
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    If that's indeed one of the main reasons you don't find him attractive, the good news is that being overweight is not necessarily a permanent state. Since he's already a close friend of yours, his long-term health and wellbeing probably matter to you already, and doubly so if that's the primary factor standing in the way of you two happily dating. Is he open to trying diet changes, lifestyle changes, and exercise?
    I do not think this is a good idea. First of all, people tend to be sensitive about their appearance; second, losing weight isn't as easy as diet and exercise, there are genetic and metabolic factors too; and third, depending how much overweight somebody is, "overweight" isn't necessarily even a significant health risk, society is just super fatphobic and overemphasises it.
    Jude P.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Icewraith View Post
    Using yourself as a carrot to inspire weight loss also has severe backfire possibilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Yeah, saying lose weight to date me is generally pretty bad.
    You guys have somewhat misunderstood me; my suggestion has always been to open the door to dating that guy who's apparently close to being Helio's dream partner personality-wise, while keeping in mind that if weight is what turns out to be the main problem in the bedroom (since that's what Helio thinks, and also considering that non-overweight men are sometimes deemed yummy), then that main problem isn't something permanent, and it's something that can eventually get discussed, if everything else seems to want to go well.

    It seems that it might not have been perfectly clear in my initial suggestion, though it's always been crystal clear in my mind.

    "Sorry, you're too fat, come back and apply again when you've fixed that" is a completely assholish thing to say, and it would never cross my mind to suggest anything of the sort.

    But if my dream partner was here and now and had a crush on me to boot, and the only problem was that I'm not physically attracted due to them currently being overweight, you can bet I would at least not just completely close the door on that person. That's Helio's position, from her posts.
    Last edited by lio45; 2016-07-18 at 08:40 PM.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    You guys have somewhat misunderstood me; my suggestion has always been to open the door to dating that guy who's apparently close to being Helio's dream partner personality-wise, while keeping in mind that if weight is what turns out to be the main problem in the bedroom (since that's what Helio thinks, and also considering that non-overweight men are sometimes deemed yummy), then that main problem isn't something permanent, and it's something that can eventually get discussed, if everything else seems to want to go well.

    It seems that it might not have been perfectly clear in my initial suggestion, though it's always been crystal clear in my mind.

    "Sorry, you're too fat, come back and apply again when you've fixed that" is a completely assholish thing to say, and it would never cross my mind to suggest anything of the sort.

    But if my dream partner was here and now and had a crush on me to boot, and the only problem was that I'm not physically attracted due to them currently being overweight, you can bet I would at least not just completely close the door on that person. That's Helio's position, from her posts.
    Well chances are that if they are overweight, a chance at a date isn't going to lead them to change that in any more than a temporary manner.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    It might work, yeah, if the person can put up with the fat partner for months before bringing it up(and the months that they are working off the weight) and the fat partner won't feel betrayed and lied to from having thought that their body must have been liked if the person decided to date them and they haven't gotten fatter and the fat partner commits to eating better and working out and sees success on that front but doesn't end up with an excess skin problem that's also a turnoff for their partner.

    I see a lot of potential pitfalls and points of failure, and my impression of how much Heliomance actually likes this guy appears to be very different, I'm getting a much more lukewarm vibe than that it would be a **** yeah if he was female and not fat.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
    For some reason can't delete this... oh well.
    Everything ok? (I recall reading your post earlier, but never got a chance to reply.)



    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Well chances are that if they are overweight, a chance at a date isn't going to lead them to change that in any more than a temporary manner.
    Obviously it's possible, but the opposite is also possible. And you're mistaken in saying "a chance at a date", it's "a chance at a lasting relationship with the person you have a crush on". A bit more worthy a goal.

    One thing is for sure, "this guy, a close friend I would totally love to date personality-wise and who has a crush on me, is currently not really attractive to my eyes mostly due to being overweight" is the kind of situation for which I'd definitely recommend not shutting the door tight ASAP.

    The main good reason for shutting the door tight would be if Helio feels unable to handle the whole thing carefully. That'll be her call.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    It might work, yeah, if the person can put up with the fat partner for months before bringing it up(and the months that they are working off the weight) and the fat partner won't feel betrayed and lied to from having thought that their body must have been liked if the person decided to date them and they haven't gotten fatter and the fat partner commits to eating better and working out and sees success on that front but doesn't end up with an excess skin problem that's also a turnoff for their partner.
    That's an approximately acceptable description of me and my gf, though of course the betrayal and lies parts can and should be fully avoided.

    I had the exact same initial dilemma as Helio, and it took a while for us to navigate through it, but it the end it was most definitely worth it.


    I see a lot of potential pitfalls and points of failure, and my impression of how much Heliomance actually likes this guy appears to be very different, I'm getting a much more lukewarm vibe than that it would be a **** yeah if he was female and not fat.
    "I'd totally date him" are the words I recall.

    But you're right, it's not a lot to base a conclusion on. I'm assuming that Helio would love to be able to flip the physical attraction switch on that one, because it's the only ingredient missing.

    (Helio finds males yummy, so that's not the problem.)

    If Helio was lukewarm about him, why would she even bother bringing it up as a dilemma? To me, it's obvious that that guy is worthy of consideration as a partner. Otherwise, it's a non story; don't date him.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    That's an approximately acceptable description of me and my gf, though of course the betrayal and lies parts can and should be fully avoided.

    I had the exact same initial dilemma as Helio, and it took a while for us to navigate through it, but it the end it was most definitely worth it.
    Not exactly something that's within Heliomance's power to ensure. Or anyone's for that matter. Depends heavily on his inner dimensions and monologue.

    So it's possible, but it's still a sample size of one.

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    (Helio finds males yummy, so that's not the problem.)

    If Helio was lukewarm about him, why would she even bother bringing it up as a dilemma? To me, it's obvious that that guy is worthy of consideration as a partner. Otherwise, it's a non story; don't date him.
    But doesn't like their junk, so it's still a problem and may continue to be one if she never revises her position on them.

    In my experience, plenty of girls feel guilty and like they're being shallow and ask for advice about situations that aren't that serious to them for a variety of reasons. Some guys do it too. Why, though, I couldn't say.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Not exactly something that's within Heliomance's power to ensure. Or anyone's for that matter. Depends heavily on his inner dimensions and monologue.

    So it's possible, but it's still a sample size of one.
    When you choose to enter a relationship with another human being, there are ALWAYS factors that are not within your power to fully control. It's inevitable, and we all live with it.

    By the same logic, there's never any guarantee that whoever you currently date won't be letting their currently sexy bodies turn quickly into something that would cause physical attraction problems. People can become really, really fat over a surprisingly short timeline (in the ballpark of a couple years). If that prospect scares you, then you better stay alone until you die of old age.

    In real life, the health and shape and looks of your significant other are indeed partly "in your power". You're not in charge, but you obviously have some input on various levels.



    But doesn't like their junk, so it's still a problem and may continue to be one if she never revises her position on them.
    The way I understood it, the problem is not that guy's junk but rather Helio's (pre-SRS) junk.

    Again, though, in these threads, it's really hard to always convey 100% of your feelings and make sure all details are out there in a way that ensures there can't be any ambiguity when it's time for others to chime in with their advice. So you may be right in your interpretation, or I may be right in mine; only Helio knows.

    I don't mind at all if I'm wrong; if Helio comes in here and sets the record straight by specifying she's actually always been lukewarm about the guy in the first place, I'll actually be glad the forum can now recommend not dating him with a consensus.




    In my experience, plenty of girls feel guilty and like they're being shallow and ask for advice about situations that aren't that serious to them for a variety of reasons. Some guys do it too. Why, though, I couldn't say.
    In casual conversation, sure, 'cause asking for advice on a matter you don't really care about is just another of all the things you can say to generate conversation -- certainly not worse than talking about the weather.

    On the other hand, if you take the time to type a post in a support/advice thread in an online forum of which you're a regular in order to get the opinions of other forumgoers, I would tend to assume it's something you find reasonably serious.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
    Yeah, I'm doing better. It was just an uncomfortable lapse back into the darker places of the anxiety... I guess it kind of serves as a reminder that I'm not totally recovered from the breakdown last week, because I was starting to think I was on the up and up. Still a little frightened that the anxiety isn't planning on dying down any time soon, though.
    How much of that (irrational) anxiety have you been sharing with her? It seems to me she's the best person by far who can help you drive it away, dispelling your unfounded fears.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    When you choose to enter a relationship with another human being, there are ALWAYS factors that are not within your power to fully control. It's inevitable, and we all live with it.

    By the same logic, there's never any guarantee that whoever you currently date won't be letting their currently sexy bodies turn quickly into something that would cause physical attraction problems. People can become really, really fat over a surprisingly short timeline (in the ballpark of a couple years). If that prospect scares you, then you better stay alone until you die of old age.

    In real life, the health and shape and looks of your significant other are indeed partly "in your power". You're not in charge, but you obviously have some input on various levels.
    Don't get snippy with me, then. You acted like it was a done deal that Heliomace could account for in how she approached it when that's not the case and it needed to be pointed out.

    But, fine, whatever, you win, I'm too tired to continue this exchange.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    If they get in shape for that chance at an awesome lasting relationship, the overwhelmingly most likely thing that will happen is that they will revert. Leading a healthy lifestyle is a personal decision, and obviously not one he is worried about.

    If he does it for her, and only for her, there is a good chance that he will either revert, or come to resent her. Not saying it is a surity; but it is a possible outcome, and not an uncommon one.

    To me, the fact that Helio is here about this, and not sure, is the biggest red flag. I have met people who are totally amazing and awesome, who I would oh so totally date if __________. Some (well, two) even had crushes. They're called friends- we addressed the crush and talked about why it wouldn't work, and it's great that way.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Don't get snippy with me, then. You acted like it was a done deal that Heliomace could account for in how she approached it when that's not the case and it needed to be pointed out.
    Heliomance can choose to account for the fact it's not a permanent condition, yes. ("Not a permanent condition", unlike, say, the classic case that one of your best male buddies and you would completely see eye to eye on nearly all things if you were a couple, except that you're both heterosexual.)

    But again, maybe I'm the one reading too much from "personality-wise, I really like him, and would totally date him" by concluding that the main factor that gets in the way is the lack of physical attraction, and that if it weren't for the lack of physical attraction, they'd probably be dating already, and we wouldn't have had posts in here about it.


    But, fine, whatever, you win, I'm too tired to continue this exchange.
    As I said, it's not about winning or losing. My advice based on my understanding of the situation is that Helio should at least open the door a bit to that eminently dateable guy. Other people' advice is to keep the door closed. The reasons for both points of view were explained. It's collective brainstorming, which of course doesn't prevent Helio from then doing whatever she wants, but can hopefully sometimes be useful to the people who come here for opinions and advice.

    I'm pretty sure our exchange contributed to expanding the size of the discussion/brainstorming specific to this case in particular, so from the point of view of Helio I would dare say it's probably considered all good. My apologies if you found me needlessly argumentative.

    FWIW, if I throw a problem at you guys asking for advice, I know that, generally speaking, the more brainstorming and posting and discussing ensues, the happier I'll be as a customer of this thread. That's kind of the whole point :)
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Leading a healthy lifestyle is a personal decision, and obviously not one he is worried about.
    And considering that Helio is pretty certain that guy has a crush on her, but is turned off by his weight, I would point out that his "decision to obviously not worry about his lifestyle" isn't serving him too well.

    Sure, it's "a personal decision"; you can personally choose to make sure you tick absolutely all the "don't" boxes in the "Personal Hygiene" section of the famous GitP Serpentine basic "what am I doing wrong?" checklist, and it's okay, but it would likely be a disservice to you in the grand scheme of things to consider it taboo to ever bring up the subject with you.



    If he does it for her, and only for her, there is a good chance that he will either revert, or come to resent her. Not saying it is a surity; but it is a possible outcome, and not an uncommon one.
    It's certainly a possible outcome.

    On the other hand, the scenario "he has a crush on Helio, who'd like to date him, but she is turned off by his weight, so he stays alone, the question of his weight remains taboo, 'cause no one wants to hurt or offend him; his personal decision to not care about his weight is not reevaluated, and he remains overweight, and alone" is also very possible.

    I'm not sure that scenario is very desirable either.



    To me, the fact that Helio is here about this, and not sure, is the biggest red flag.
    As I said to Coidzor, to me it's the opposite. (I'm not saying I'm right, I may be wrong.)

    To me, the fact that Helio seems to have a real dilemma, serious enough to be brought up in here, shows that guy is likely worth a chance. Otherwise, it's very simple: case closed -- don't date that guy.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    As I said to Coidzor, to me it's the opposite. (I'm not saying I'm right, I may be wrong.)

    To me, the fact that Helio seems to have a real dilemma, serious enough to be brought up in here, shows that guy is likely worth a chance. Otherwise, it's very simple: case closed -- don't date that guy.
    I'm sure he's worth a chance...to someone who isn't turned off by his physical appearance. Putting myself in her situation, knowing there was a crush; There's no easy way to do this without coming off as shallow. I'd explain that the weight is a problem. I would tell him that in the same way he has his preferences that make me physically attractive to him, and that those do not make him shallow; I too have my preferences. I like guys who take care of their body. Guys who are diligent and disciplined in their health and appearance are often diligent and disciplined in other things, and those are qualities I like. I also want somebody who eats and enjoys the same healthy foods I do. If I'm going to be spending my life with someone, they need to be comfortable living a healthy lifestyle. It hurts to see a loved one deteriorate in health over time because of poor lifestyle choices.

    Buuuuuut. I guess what I am saying is that to me, the sort of indecision Helio is having is a red flag; because I feel like when you really like somebody, there is no indecision. You're all in about wanting to go out with them or you're not. If you don't feel like you want to be all in about going for it, your gut is trying to tell you something.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Hello again. Asked the girl if she wanted a ride. She wasn't interested. Oh well.

    For the other reason why I am posting this is for something I should have posted when the details were fresh. A couple of months ago I had a crush on a Chinese guy in my Spanish class. We got along well and we ended up partnering on the last oral exam. Just, I remember when we were working on that he briefly touched my upper leg. Mostly I'm curious if that could mean anything.

    I have an email address from him so I will probably write him at the end of the Summer.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Yeah, if I was physically attracted to him I suspect we'd already be dating. On that note though, reading through this discussion is starting to get kinda awkward and uncomfortable, what with how you're all holding forth on my desires and motivations and such, so I'm just gonna drop the topic for now
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Buuuuuut. I guess what I am saying is that to me, the sort of indecision Helio is having is a red flag; because I feel like when you really like somebody, there is no indecision. You're all in about wanting to go out with them or you're not. If you don't feel like you want to be all in about going for it, your gut is trying to tell you something.
    But looking at it the other way, which is what I naturally tend to do myself, is equally valid: "I find that person physically unattractive, yet in spite of the fact this should normally make passing on them a no-brainer decision, my gut is trying to tell me something".





    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    ... what with how you're all holding forth on my desires and motivations and such...
    Inescapable side-effect of sharing your situation in here asking for feedback :P

    Wish you the best of luck, regardless of the course of action you decide to take.
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