Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

[Arutema]

Get busy. Do stuff. Relate with and to people.

Specially do stuff that interests and inspire you.

This carries three consequences:

1 - You'll find stuff to be excited about that isn't sex and/or a romantic partner.

2 - You don't have time to mope around and feel bad for yourself which, let's be honest, isn't helping.

3 - You will be meeting other people in a setting in which you'll show the best of yourself, leading to maybe possibly having dates.

I know you don't want advise that leads to my number 3 there. But I think you should still do it if only for 1 and 2.

I threw myself into the local tabletop gaming scene for the longest time. It never quite filled the void, and I'm barely getting any excitement out of games anymore. I did meet a fair number of people, all dudes, which didn't help on that last bullet point.

So it seems I need a new hobby.

[lio45]

So it seems I need a new hobby.

Or you could also keep "finding a partner" in your list of mid/long-term objectives, and try to determine what it is (could be several things) that aren't working for you.

As a rule of thumb, if a person sets out to find and keep a relationship partner, it'll eventually work, at the worst case after a very reasonable number of tries. If it doesn't, it's an indication there is probably one or more problems somewhere that you'd benefit from identifying and addressing.

From your posts, I'm definitely getting the feeling you'd like to meet someone, so I'm pretty sure "a new hobby" won't come anywhere close to cutting it as a substitute. I mean, obviously, new hobbies can't hurt, but you shouldn't expect them to be a cure for your solitary soul woes.

[TechnOkami]

Oh, finding contention in being alone is easy. I argue with myself all the time.

Huh, that is its definition... forgot about that.

Ok, learn to be content with being alone.

[Aedilred]

So I'm at 35 years old, perpetually single. Even the bad dates dried up 4 years ago.

How do I just accept that certain things can't be, and that certain emotional desires are simply not going to be fulfilled anytime in my lifespan.

I'm not looking for the usual platitudes on how I'll meet someone eventually, or how with this one trick I can meet new people who might be interested in me. Trust me, I've heard enough of those in the last 15 years.

I'm looking for real advice on coping with a life of enforced asexuality and aromanticism. Because at this point, I'm a fool not to recognize that's what fate has given me.

This sounds sufficiently similar to my own experience that I can sympathise. Although in my case lack of effort on my part plays a major, arguably decisive role in my current circumstances.

As people have said, though, you're not looking at a life of asexuality, because that drive and desire isn't going to go away. Worst case scenario, it's a life of celibacy/chastity, which is rather different.

It's very easy to give you a big spiel about how great being single is, but honestly, I think it's largely personal, circumstantial and perspective-based. If you don't enjoy being single, no amount of people telling you how lucky you are is going to make you feel better about it. Likewise, if you're having a great time, it's easy to laugh off those who tell you you're missing out by not being in a relationship. The money you save by not spending it on your partner tends to get swallowed by generally higher living costs. The time you gain is of little value if you'd rather not be spending that time alone. The possibility of a more exciting and varied sex life is only a bonus if (a) you're able to execute that and (b) find that desirable in the first place; otherwise it remains theoretical and you're better off being in a relationship. And so on.

I've reached a point where, by concentrating on other things, getting into a relationship has slipped way down my list of priorities and most of the time it doesn't bother me in the slightest that I'm not in one. But it doesn't stop it from rearing up every now and again and biting me because ultimately that's a part of me that's never going to go away and is never going to be wholly satisfied so long as I remain single.

Obviously none of this is massively helpful in itself, but I guess the point I'm trying to make is that this dissatisfaction is never going to go away entirely. Even if you learn to manage it, there are still going to be times when you feel desperately lonely and frustrated and that really sucks. So if that's "not you", and if you actually do want a relationship/sex life, giving up on it probably isn't going to do you much good in the long run: you're better off continuing to try to find one in the hope that eventually you'll find someone you click with.

[Crow]

I've reached a point where, by concentrating on other things, getting into a relationship has slipped way down my list of priorities and most of the time it doesn't bother me in the slightest that I'm not in one. But it doesn't stop it from rearing up every now and again and biting me because ultimately that's a part of me that's never going to go away and is never going to be wholly satisfied so long as I remain single.

This is important. Concentrating on other things makes it a lot more tolerable. Find the things that you like and really throw yourself into them. Ultimately your desires come down to what you want to devote your energy to. If you have other places to eat up that energy, you won't feel so bad about not having a romantic relationship to pour it into.

Then of course if you must have a relationship, there is the tried and true method of massively lowering your standards and implementing the scattershot strategy; though in my mind being single is preferable to that one.

[lio45]

Ultimately your desires come down to what you want to devote your energy to.

In most cases, my opinion would be that the energy of people who really wish they had a relationship partner is best spent on improving their own desirability as a potential relationship partner.

Why settle on "making it more tolerable" if you can instead fix it?

[Crow]

In most cases, my opinion would be that the energy of people who really wish they had a relationship partner is best spent on improving their own desirability as a potential relationship partner.

Why settle on "making it more tolerable" if you can instead fix it?

Mostly because when people get to this point, they've already done that- at least as much as they are willing to do so at this point. Broadly-speaking, most people don't reach the point of concluding that they will just never be in a good relationship, until they've already tried everything they are willing to do to improve their desirability.

What they can do and what they will do, are not the same things. That's not a knock on them, it is just part of being human.

[Drascin]

As someone who has done, and still is doing, exactly what you've suggested here let me point out that that is not sufficient. Hobbies and friendships are nice and vital, yes, but ultimately no substitute for romance. As a result there still tends to be a strong feeling that you're missing out on something essential. That is not something that goes way, no matter how full one's life with hobbies, friends, interests etc.

To be honest, I don't think you really know what this feels like because I suspect you've never been in the same situation. And that's fine, but it would be good to be aware of that.

It really depends on the person. As I mentioned, the more I got into other things the more I realized that honestly looking for a relationship seemed like a waste of time and effort that risked a lot of current happiness for a "maybe more happiness" gamble.

My current feeling is that I'm currently at that point in a contest where I have an already opened box that has a million dollars, and I'm being given a chance to go through a Takeshi's Castle gauntlet of trials in order to exchange this box I already have in my hands for a mystery box. This box could have a quarter of a million more than the one I have, or it could be empty, or it could be filled to the brim with angry hungry Tanzanian killer hornets. You don't get to know it until you do the run and open the box.

And you know what, I think a million dollars is plenty enough, and the possible gains do not merit neither the necessary effort to get to the mystery box, nor the possibility of it ending up with me seriously hurt. Call me unambitious and settling, but I think that my contentment is rather preferable to the stress and suffering I see in most of my friends that are actively looking for and going through partners. Which is why I generally end up being the shoulder to complain or cry on .

[Jormengand]

Huh, that is its definition... forgot about that.

Ok, learn to be content with being alone.

You presumably were thinking of contentment.

[lio45]

Mostly because when people get to this point, they've already done that- at least as much as they are willing to do so at this point. Broadly-speaking, most people don't reach the point of concluding that they will just never be in a good relationship, until they've already tried everything they are willing to do to improve their desirability.

Yeah, we're kind of saying the same thing.

The options, at this point, are 1) reconsider what you're willing to do to improve your desirability, or 2) give up and learn to accept the status quo.

Both options are fine, it's a matter of personal choice (i.e. each option has its own pros and cons, so there can be valid justification for picking either one over the other).

The point of my posts on this topic has been to remind people of the existence of option #1, because the way I see it, if they are here discussing it, then deep down they might not yet be fully ready to give up. IMO Aedilred's post would be a good example of someone who's probably somewhat fine with celibacy for the moment and foreseeable future. Arutema, not so much. Hence the advice: maybe look into option #1 before you settle.

[Crow]

Yeah, we're kind of saying the same thing.

The options, at this point, are 1) reconsider what you're willing to do to improve your desirability, or 2) give up and learn to accept the status quo.

Both options are fine, it's a matter of personal choice (i.e. each option has its own pros and cons, so there can be valid justification for picking either one over the other).

The point of my posts on this topic has been to remind people of the existence of option #1, because the way I see it, if they are here discussing it, then deep down they might not yet be fully ready to give up. IMO Aedilred's post would be a good example of someone who's probably somewhat fine with celibacy for the moment and foreseeable future. Arutema, not so much. Hence the advice: maybe look into option #1 before you settle.

Yes I suspect we are.

For me #1 has always been my first option in...anything really. Desirability, skill, work, education, or otherwise.

I would never consider switching to 2 unless I was already completely convinced that I was completely spent with 1 (as much as I could tolerate anyways); so it is sometimes hard for me to consider that someone might arrive at 2 before that.

[Jon_Dahl]

I have now decided to limit the list to three women. I've come up with a plan and I'd like to ask you what you think about it. Any critique is welcome.

I have this obsession to Brazilian women which is stupid but it's hard to shake. Next year, in July, I will travel to Brazil and spend five weeks there. It's part of a university course that I'm doing, although any lusophonic country would do. At the moment, I have three candidates to be my girlfriend, all of whom are women living Brazil.

Lady #1. She is planning to come to see me in my home country this December and spend several weeks with me. If that happens, I have to cut contact with other women, because living with another woman with whom I'm romantically involved is enough to get me to sever all ties with other women. However, I think she is full of crap and I don't she will ever come to see me. If she doesn't come, I will not give her another chance and she's out.
She's a humble and down-to-earth. She has very little experience with men. She wants to make me happy and her behaviour seems somewhat subservient at times, meaning that my happiness comes first in her mind. We don't have that much to talk about, but I'm sure that I'd be happy with her. She wants to make me happy and I'm sure she could do that.
She has stated that she loves me more than anything.

Lady #2. She's an educated woman and I admire her. However, she seems very girlish. She has a wild imagination and I don't mean in a sexual sense. She has almost no experience with men. She lives in a place where I wouldn't go since it's too far away, but she has promised me to move to São Paulo next year if she gets a job there, but there will be just one job interview since the distance is so difficult. It that interview fails, she probably won't move to SP.
She likes me a lot.

Lady #3. An educated and classy older woman. She is older than me and several years older than Ladies #1 and #2. She has lots of experience with men and with life in general. She's engaging and we talk about everything. She has lots of opinions and she's an independent woman. She made me worry quite a bit when she said that life was better during the dictatorship and democracy ruined everything. I spoke with a lawyer friend of mine and he was outraged by her comments. I find her strong and independent character a bit threatening, meaning that I'd have to make lots of compromises with her. I don't know if I'm ready to have such battle of wills. Nevertheless, I love talking with her, since she is so intelligent and friendly, but she seems a fascist.
She loves me, but she has asked me to clarify what our status is and I have avoided the subject. She has noted my behaviour and that has been it.

If Lady #1 blows me off (highly likely) and Lady #2 never moves to São Paulo (highly likely), I will keep Lady #3, even though some of the things she says make me worried.

[lio45]

Yes I suspect we are.

For me #1 has always been my first option in...anything really. Desirability, skill, work, education, or otherwise.

I would never consider switching to 2 unless I was already completely convinced that I was completely spent with 1 (as much as I could tolerate anyways); so it is sometimes hard for me to consider that someone might arrive at 2 before that.

I think you're in the military, too, right? I'm not surprised you tend to see things the same way I do.

I find it nearly unfathomable that someone relatively young (*and not aromantic/asexual) would just decide to fully give up on something as... core as that, and for their whole lifetime. Makes no sense to me, but again, that's just my opinion.

[dehro]

I have now decided to limit the list to three women. I've come up with a plan and I'd like to ask you what you think about it. Any critique is welcome.

I have this obsession to Brazilian women which is stupid but it's hard to shake. Next year, in July, I will travel to Brazil and spend five weeks there. It's part of a university course that I'm doing, although any lusophonic country would do. At the moment, I have three candidates to be my girlfriend, all of whom are women living Brazil.

Lady #1. She is planning to come to see me in my home country this December and spend several weeks with me. If that happens, I have to cut contact with other women, because living with another woman with whom I'm romantically involved is enough to get me to sever all ties with other women. However, I think she is full of crap and I don't she will ever come to see me. If she doesn't come, I will not give her another chance and she's out.
She's a humble and down-to-earth. She has very little experience with men. She wants to make me happy and her behaviour seems somewhat subservient at times, meaning that my happiness comes first in her mind. We don't have that much to talk about, but I'm sure that I'd be happy with her. She wants to make me happy and I'm sure she could do that.
She has stated that she loves me more than anything.

Lady #2. She's an educated woman and I admire her. However, she seems very girlish. She has a wild imagination and I don't mean in a sexual sense. She has almost no experience with men. She lives in a place where I wouldn't go since it's too far away, but she has promised me to move to São Paulo next year if she gets a job there, but there will be just one job interview since the distance is so difficult. It that interview fails, she probably won't move to SP.
She likes me a lot.

Lady #3. An educated and classy older woman. She is older than me and several years older than Ladies #1 and #2. She has lots of experience with men and with life in general. She's engaging and we talk about everything. She has lots of opinions and she's an independent woman. She made me worry quite a bit when she said that life was better during the dictatorship and democracy ruined everything. I spoke with a lawyer friend of mine and he was outraged by her comments. I find her strong and independent character a bit threatening, meaning that I'd have to make lots of compromises with her. I don't know if I'm ready to have such battle of wills. Nevertheless, I love talking with her, since she is so intelligent and friendly, but she seems a fascist.
She loves me, but she has asked me to clarify what our status is and I have avoided the subject. She has noted my behaviour and that has been it.

If Lady #1 blows me off (highly likely) and Lady #2 never moves to São Paulo (highly likely), I will keep Lady #3, even though some of the things she says make me worried.

Number 1 and 2 are probably either scammers or women hoping for an easy path to a visa application.
No idea about nr 3.but it seems to me that you don't have much affinity, and even less feelings towards her... So, why bother?

[AliceLost]

Jon Dahl, your wacky dating shenanigans have been a fixture on here for years, so I hope you won't mind me cutting to the chase in my response, because although I haven't been posting for very long, I have read many other people's responses to your previous woes.

Your general attitude to women is scornful and condescending, your fixation on Brazilians in particular is highly fetishistic, and you seem to be willing to engage in long-distance, long-term highly dependent and co-dependent relationships, and until those issues are addressed, you're never going to end up in relationships with anyone who doesn't seem far away, inferior, and too attractive to judge fairly.

These questions aren't an isolated incident, they're a pattern of behaviour, and it keeps ending poorly for you. Reconsider your approach, don't keep asking for advice on how to perform the same mistakes slightly better.

[Jon_Dahl]

Jon Dahl, your wacky dating shenanigans have been a fixture on here for years, so I hope you won't mind me cutting to the chase in my response, because although I haven't been posting for very long, I have read many other people's responses to your previous woes.

Your general attitude to women is scornful and condescending, your fixation on Brazilians in particular is highly fetishistic, and you seem to be willing to engage in long-distance, long-term highly dependent and co-dependent relationships, and until those issues are addressed, you're never going to end up in relationships with anyone who doesn't seem far away, inferior, and too attractive to judge fairly.

These questions aren't an isolated incident, they're a pattern of behaviour, and it keeps ending poorly for you. Reconsider your approach, don't keep asking for advice on how to perform the same mistakes slightly better.

I know that you are right, but I find it almost impossible to change the situation right now. I'll get smarter someday soon. I promise this to myself. Thank you for the polite answer. I'm also sorry for my poor attitude. If it's worth anything, I'd like to say that I treat women really well and they say that to me. Even my ex-gf said that I'm a good person. Nevertheless, I'm fully aware of the things that I have said here and I can't argue with your statement about my attitude.

[Glass Mouse]

I know that you are right, but I find it almost impossible to change the situation right now. I'll get smarter someday soon. I promise this to myself. Thank you for the polite answer. I'm also sorry for my poor attitude. If it's worth anything, I'd like to say that I treat women really well and they say that to me. Even my ex-gf said that I'm a good person. Nevertheless, I'm fully aware of the things that I have said here and I can't argue with your statement about my attitude.

What will you do to make yourself "smarter" soon? And why can you not do that thing now?

[lio45]

Jon Dahl, your wacky dating shenanigans have been a fixture on here for years, so I hope you won't mind me cutting to the chase in my response, because although I haven't been posting for very long, I have read many other people's responses to your previous woes.

Your general attitude to women is scornful and condescending, your fixation on Brazilians in particular is highly fetishistic, and you seem to be willing to engage in long-distance, long-term highly dependent and co-dependent relationships, and until those issues are addressed, you're never going to end up in relationships with anyone who doesn't seem far away, inferior, and too attractive to judge fairly.

These questions aren't an isolated incident, they're a pattern of behaviour, and it keeps ending poorly for you. Reconsider your approach, don't keep asking for advice on how to perform the same mistakes slightly better.

Seconded. I personally wasn't sure that last post of his was worth dignifying with a response, but I suppose someone had to say it.

To me the most facepalmy part is that this short stay is still ONE FULL YEAR AWAY. If you were going to move to Brazil in a couple weeks or a month and stay there for at least the foreseeable future -- and I know that's not the case, you're only going to be there very briefly -- then sure, okay, then you can start online-dating-shopping for a Brazilian relationship partner (who, of course, will have to be made aware you're only going to be there for a few weeks, so it'll be a fling thing).

My advice, respecting your slightly weirdo side and taking into account how unshakeable that fetish of yours seems to be, is to stop what you're doing, and resume doing what you're currently doing in mid/late June of 2017. In the meantime, just mentally enjoy in advance these fleeting few weeks you'll spend in July of '17 with your Brazilian "Mrs. Right Now".

[lio45]

I have now decided to limit the list to three women. I've come up with a plan and I'd like to ask you what you think about it. Any critique is welcome.

Or maybe not that welcome, in retrospect

[lio45]

So, out of curiosity, Jon... have those recent ~5 pages of feedback resulted in any modification, however slight, to this "plan" of yours that you laid out here for us to comment on?

[AliceLost]

So, out of curiosity, Jon... have those recent ~5 pages of feedback resulted in any modification, however slight, to this "plan" of yours that you laid out here for us to comment on?

Given the recent, and justified, thread lock, I'm not sure if poking that particular bear is a great idea. Or likely to be very productive.

[lio45]

Given the recent, and justified, thread lock, I'm not sure if poking that particular bear is a great idea. Or likely to be very productive.

There were hints in it that Jon seemed willing to consider taking a step back to rethink a few things in his approach and ways. Which would be something productive...

Also, the relationship/dating side of the issue -- even in Jon's case -- is and has always been an okay topic here. The tangent that the other thread ended up taking is unlikely to be rekindled in this one, especially if we stick (as usual) to the relationship/dating POV and analysis.

[Mauve Shirt]

How long after a couple meets and starts dating is it not weird for them to cohabitate?

[Eldariel]

How long after a couple meets and starts dating is it not weird for them to cohabitate?

I'd say this depends heavily on the circumstances. I've been in a relationship where the partner was not ready for cohabitation after 1 year. I've also witnessed cases where they move together within one month. Both have turned out to be perfectly reasonable solutions. Personal comfort, certainty that both partners do indeed want to live together, practicalities (distance, funds, availability of a place both find acceptable, etc.), et cetera. Some couples live permanently apart and that works for them. There is no right solution in this matter.

[Knaight]

It is generally good wisdom to not enter a relationship that hinges on the hope that one of you will change. Whether you are trying to turn your partner from jerk to sweetheart or from chubby bear to adonis, or yourself from someone who is not attracted to him, the odds are rarely good. Sure, some people succeed, but it is like the lottery - a nice story when it happens, but you should not count on it.

Another big one is not getting into a relationship on the assumption that you can convert someone to your religion, and that will end all religious differences problems you have. I've seen that happen before, and it's not pretty.

[Crow]

How long after a couple meets and starts dating is it not weird for them to cohabitate?

As long as it takes for neither side to have any problem with it. The most common time frame I see though, is whenever one or both of you end up needing to find a new place to live.

[lio45]

As long as it takes for neither side to have any problem with it.

Yep, exactly.

I've also seen cases of this variable having a negative value (i.e. you start dating your roommate).

[Siosilvar]

And, of course, there's the joke that lesbians show up to their second date with a U-Haul. I'm not sure if that's applicable to Mauve, though.

[EternalMelon]

And, of course, there's the joke that lesbians show up to their second date with a U-Haul. I'm not sure if that's applicable to Mauve, though.

Before you Mauve into someones house, it's really important to make sure you're Redy. Look deep into your feelings and make sure you're really Lavender (or him, or them). You don't want to be Marooned in a situation that makes you feel like you Blue your chances by moving too fast (pardon the pun). From my experience couples usually start living together when they notice they are only spending a Silver of their time at one of their houses. When two people have been basically living together for a while and still get along Greyt then their really is no reason to have separate homes.

As for spending time together that isn't "together time" (the precursor to the situation detailed above), from my experience when the majority of the week is spent together without issue, it's not presumptuous to at least make a flimsy excuse to expend the time spent together.

[Jon_Dahl]

So, out of curiosity, Jon... have those recent ~5 pages of feedback resulted in any modification, however slight, to this "plan" of yours that you laid out here for us to comment on?

I'm trying to keep a low profile since my attempt to bring everyone closer to each other and have a group hug failed pretty badly.