Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

[dehro]

Before making any final gestures that may drive a nail in the coffin of your relationship, I'd verify if it is really ready to be buried. You said it yourself... She is going through a host of issues and you two aren't communicating a great deal.
Maybe there are misconceptions in place and you're interpreting her sullen silences in ways that are in fact not representative of her feelings.
Talk to her, but without coming to the table with grievances or having decided to quit. Try to figure out how she's really feeling, if there's more you can do (or have her express the fact that you can't,rather than deciding it without actually putting it into words... If all of this process to be unfeasible or is meet with more indifference, then you can call her out on it or ask her explicitly what you can do to at least not make things worse... And laad from there to let her know you're not feeling the relationship as a secure one and need some reassurance that is just a tough time... Or else, you need to be told what's what.

[Crow]

Most things in life are very simple. It is us who make them complicated.

Comrade you know what to do.

[Glass Mouse]

Spoiler: Asexual Spectrum Stuff

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How on earth would one even proceed with someone who doesn't know if they're asexual or demisexual because they have never been particularly close to anyone who wasn't of the same-sex and confirmed to not be of interest?

Also, what is that? What even is that?

Is that a way of saying, "by the way, we aren't actually friends?" A challenge to get to know one another better, literally rather than as a euphemism? A request to be more distant with one another?

An honest expression of confusion that doesn't mean anything, but should temper expectations?

Something completely different?

Spoiler

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If I'm understanding you correctly, you're interested in someone who knows they're on the ace spectrum but not sure where. And you're baffled as to how to treat this confession?

I've known plenty of people who have only had same-gender friendships and other-gender(s) acquiantances, so it doesn't surprise me too much that someone would be confused there. Hell, it doesn't surprise me that an ace person would be confused, period. It's not like they're swimming in common explanations and narratives to help them frame the situation.

I have no idea what it means. Can you ask them? "Hey, I'm not sure if you were trying to shoot me down there, can you clarify what you meant?"

What do you do when you're close enough to someone for them to tell you fairly private details about a meltdown or what's going wrong on their end, but talking to them when they are in the midst of one makes everything worse and they won't tell you that things are bad then and there so that you can either talk about it or know to give them some time and space, only afterward?

Does the person have no tells? Can you agree on some sort of signal or code or plain words that mean "leave me alone" if big emotional confessions are too much?

I totally get needing alone time when dealing with meltdowns, but I also think the onus is on the melting person to express that desire somehow. If they refuse, there really isn't much you can do.

This is a terrible plan and I will explain why. There is a healthy level of selfishness that is important to maintaining a relationship. No, really.

It's all well and good to have the idea of a relationship where you put your partner's needs above your own, and they do the same for you, but there are lots of cases where nobody knows what your needs are better than you. Someone can't help you solve your problems (and you can't help them with theirs) if you aren't willing to prioritize them, and bring them up. A relationship is two people who care about each other and want to help each other. But you can't do that if someone doesn't know what they need.

Alice gives smart and excellent advice here.

You know what happens when both people put the other's needs above their own? Both parties engage in this weird guessing game where you both try to predict what the other person would want, and then you offer up that option in discussion. Most likely, one or both of you guessed wrong, and no one is actually satisfied, because you were both acting in bad faith. Worst case, you both wanted the same thing but ended up doing something entirely different.

If you voice what you want or need, and the other person does the same thing, you can each decide if that is someone you want to give, or if compromise is necessary, or if you have to work around it.

Comrade, it sounds over. Of course I don't know, but it's common enough for relationships to turn out differently in meatspace than in digitalspace, even without the anxiety factor. I hope I'm wrong, but either way, talking can only make things better. Best case, she is just stressed out, and you can patch things up and help her out. Worst case, you guys break up, and you have a few days to enjoy Copenhagen in peace (and grieve) without fighting for a doomed relationship. I hope I'm wrong, but still... Talk to her. It's better to know. And it's gotta be a load off her mind to be able to express herself.

(also, Comrade, your PM box is full!)

[Eldariel]

Hadn't really thought of that... I don't know. It might be that. It doesn't feel like that, but for all I know, that may just be the anxiety talking, telling me the right answer is the one that involves her not loving me anymore.

I don't think I can bring myself to talk to her about it though. Guess I'm kind of a coward like that; I'm afraid it may only exasperate her and annoy her all the more to have to discuss my doubts again. And on top of that, she's usually pretty... vague, you could say-- she doesn't like making firm statements, or so she's told me. I'm worried if I try to talk to her about it she may give vague answers that make the anxiety worse.

Maybe I can bring myself to raise the matter at some point. I just don't know.

Let me tell you something good. Emotional bonds grow as a consequence of deep talks and opening yourself up to somebody. People tend to develop feelings, and consequently feelings tend to grow when they completely unbosom themselves to somebody. So, such a discussion could serve not only to find out what's going on and to get to the bottom of it, but also to strengthen your bonds. Just stating that things are over as they are seems awfully short-sighted; from your previous commentary it's clear there are feelings on both sides. So what's wrong? Probably something on both ends; people are complex and those problems manifest in relationships in a myriad of ways.

Perhaps she feels she isn't good enough for you or perhaps she's troubled by something (either in you, the relationship or in general); stress in general tends to wreak havoc on relationships, but healthy relationships are also a place where you can unload the baggage, open your heart up to somebody and feel safe and protected. You won't know until you talk and y'know what? Given how you feel, it can't make things worse. If the expected value is you splitting up, it's completely worth just braving that tempest. And y'know, relationships where people don't talk about their hearts just don't tend to work.

Just open up normally. I don't know how you interact with her normally but give her e.g. some variation of "I'd really like to talk in-depth with you";"I feel like something seems to be troubling you - would you like to talk with me about it?";"I feel we are currently troubled by things we are not talking about - could we have a heart-to-heart?" with a positive tone. Point out that you feel there are problems (important: emphasise that "you feel" something is wrong - this way, there's a lower chance she gets defensive, and she probably understands where you're coming from), point out that you two can be open with one another and point out that you'd like to open your heart to her and hope that she feels likewise. To be in a relationship is to leave yourself vulnerable to somebody and trust them with yourself. Thus, while your fears are understandable, overcoming such things is just a part of relationships. Any relationship has its ups and downs; this could just be a down. There's no need for it to break everything.

[Kalmageddon]

Advice needed.
Having already rationally and objectively concluded that a relationship is over and that to keep on trying to hold on to it would be a very bad idea, how do I stop my stupid feelings from making my head spin and my heart go on a rodeo every time I think of her?
Is there no other solution than simply trying to not think of, hear or see her in any way?

[Form]

Advice needed.
Having already rationally and objectively concluded that a relationship is over and that to keep on trying to hold on to it would be a very bad idea, how do I stop my stupid feelings from making my head spin and my heart go on a rodeo every time I think of her?
Is there no other solution than simply trying to not think of, hear or see her in any way?

You don't. Distracting yourself with other things and keeping your distance is your best option here. It'll get easier over time.

[AMFV]

Advice needed.
Having already rationally and objectively concluded that a relationship is over and that to keep on trying to hold on to it would be a very bad idea, how do I stop my stupid feelings from making my head spin and my heart go on a rodeo every time I think of her?
Is there no other solution than simply trying to not think of, hear or see her in any way?

I would try to find some kind of hobby that doesn't involve her and isn't related to her in any way. I wouldn't advise drinking (although it works in some respects). But basically what I've found works best is to start a new hobby. Of course, if it's too soon after it may not work so well, but once you're feeling a little separation that can really help.

[georgie_leech]

We split up. It was mutual. We agreed maybe we both weren't in the right place for a relationship, that we both had made mistakes and had some growing to do, and that we would remain friends. And maybe revisit the prospect of a relationship in the future.

I'm glad we were able to retain a friendship. I even feel a little relieved at this moment. I give it a few hours before I begin to feel lower than a footprint.

For what it's worth, trying to remain friends after a mutual break up is a very mature response. I wish the both of you the best of luck.

[JNAProductions]

Just had my girlfriend break up with me. Could use some hugs.

[JNAProductions]

I'm sorry to hear that, JNA. Might be a bit far away for hugs, but will sympathy and well-wishes suffice?

I started feeling like **** not long after that post, much as expected. It sank in that it was really over, that I had been unable to make it work after all the anxiety and unhappiness. I'm glad we can still be friends, but... I don't think I'll ever be loved by somebody like her again. I should be happy that I ever was, but for now, I'm just sad.

I accept e-hugs.

Spoiler: Image

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Since I think you could use one too.

You'll find someone else, Comrade. I know you will.

[Aedilred]

For what it's worth, trying to remain friends after a mutual break up is a very mature response. I wish the both of you the best of luck.

It's much easier said than done, though. Often it'll be extended by one party or other in an attempt to soften the blow, and accepted by the other because it seems like the mature thing to do, without a full appreciation of the implications. Obviously, it's easier if neither party was really all that happy in the relationship but still feels some non-romantic affection for the other party. Where one or both parties were actually invested in the relationship and didn't really want to break up, it becomes very hard to sustain a friendship afterwards, and I wouldn't blame anyone for failing, or indeed not even trying and just walking away. "Staying friends" when what you really still want is a romantic relationship with the other person is often just a source of further pain and can retard getting over the breakup by months or years.

[JNAProductions]

Oh! In that case, sending some of those your way.

And... I don't know if I want to at this point-- find someone else, I mean. Maybe that will change, but I still love her a lot, and can't really imagine feeling the same way towards another person. At least not for a long while.

*Accepts e-hugs* Thanks.

And in that case, I hope you're able to find peace and happiness, however that comes.

[Crow]

Yeah... It's starting to really sink in now, I think. This hurts. I wish I had somebody to talk to right now but it's late as hell here.

Some day you'll look back on this and be thankful. I know that doesn't help right now, but it helps when there is a light at the end of the tunnel. This frees you to find a relationship with somebody who is a better fit, if you want to.

[JNAProductions]

Comrade, just letting you know your PM box is full.

[Coidzor]

Spoiler

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If I'm understanding you correctly, you're interested in someone who knows they're on the ace spectrum but not sure where. And you're baffled as to how to treat this confession?

I've known plenty of people who have only had same-gender friendships and other-gender(s) acquiantances, so it doesn't surprise me too much that someone would be confused there. Hell, it doesn't surprise me that an ace person would be confused, period. It's not like they're swimming in common explanations and narratives to help them frame the situation.

I have no idea what it means. Can you ask them? "Hey, I'm not sure if you were trying to shoot me down there, can you clarify what you meant?"

Does the person have no tells? Can you agree on some sort of signal or code or plain words that mean "leave me alone" if big emotional confessions are too much?

I totally get needing alone time when dealing with meltdowns, but I also think the onus is on the melting person to express that desire somehow. If they refuse, there really isn't much you can do.

Spoiler: Spoilery stuff

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Part of why I'm uncertain is that between being busy and all, we haven't had a good chance to talk since then, and they've not responded to any of the rest of what I said on the subject. Some of which was said to be because they didn't know how to respond, but whether that was all of what was said or only specific parts was not specified. :/

I don't want to force a confrontation to ask and I'm a bit shaky on how to bring it up low-key instead of as a big, heavy conversation.

It's hard to have tells via text message. :/ When we talk on the phone or in person I can tell if they're tired, but that's usually about it.

I told them that the last thing I want is to make them feel worse because I care about them and they just haven't replied to me since about it, only talking at all a few days later. I guess I'm a bit lost as to how to say "Hey, I'm not asking you to spill your guts about what's bugging you if you don't feel comfortable telling me then and there or don't want to open up to me emotionally about vulnerable things like that until you're past them, but please just say something to indicate that it's a bad time so I don't make things worse by trying to contact you or talking to you about something unrelated."

Or maybe I'm just being a chicken**** because I'm scared of having it confirmed how little they regard me and that I've invested far too much in them. :/

[Eldariel]

We... talked about things. And I don't know what to think anymore. I don't know what happened. She told me I didn't do anything to make her fall out of love with me, that she needed to do a lot of growing before she could be in a relationship and that getting together with me had been like somebody who didn't know how to swim jumping into the middle of the ocean. I told her I understood, and that it just hurt to know that I couldn't be 'that person' for her. And she said she wasn't sure anybody could be that person, not yet, that she still cared a lot about me, and that she was sorry that she had brought this on me.

I don't know anymore. I'm not sure if she loved me in the first place, or if that feels better or worse than having been loved. I do know there is no way she can ever love me again or that we can be together again, and even though I resolved to retain our friendship, that hurts just as much. Somehow I get the feeling I found the worst possible girl to develop feelings for, and then fell head over heels in love with her.

It sounds like she doesn't understand herself. That's probably a two-way street; you both sound like you have a lot of things to go through on your own and lots of self-exploration to do. Perhaps it indeed wasn't a time for a relationship, or perhaps this was necessary to learn some valuable lessons for growing up. That said, it does sound like she had feelings towards you; perhaps not the kind of burning crush you seem to be having, but certainly something that could be described as love. I've been in the same end of a relationship: the limerent partner with a slower companion. Constantly feeling like going further and faster while the other party wants to take it slow - difficult but manageable. Such relationships do indeed form the majority of long-lasting relationships. Relationships between two limerent partners tend to burn out relatively quickly, while ones without any tend to lack a driving force moving things forward.

But you two split up in the middle of your crush period. That's going to hurt like hell. I recommend putting some distance between you two for the moment, just for your sanity. Being around her or in contact with her while your feelings still flare for her is going to be awfully draining. But feelings calm down in time; indeed, the intensity of your feelings should hopefully wane eventually as well. How things proceed from there is of course up to you two but for now, I'd say focus on gathering pieces and making it through the break-up blues. Anything to distract yourself can help.

My best wishes to you - I hope you can see light at least somewhere around the tunnel.

[lio45]

Spoiler: Spoilery stuff

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Part of why I'm uncertain is that between being busy and all, we haven't had a good chance to talk since then, and they've not responded to any of the rest of what I said on the subject. Some of which was said to be because they didn't know how to respond, but whether that was all of what was said or only specific parts was not specified. :/

I don't want to force a confrontation to ask and I'm a bit shaky on how to bring it up low-key instead of as a big, heavy conversation.

It's hard to have tells via text message. :/ When we talk on the phone or in person I can tell if they're tired, but that's usually about it.

I told them that the last thing I want is to make them feel worse because I care about them and they just haven't replied to me since about it, only talking at all a few days later. I guess I'm a bit lost as to how to say "Hey, I'm not asking you to spill your guts about what's bugging you if you don't feel comfortable telling me then and there or don't want to open up to me emotionally about vulnerable things like that until you're past them, but please just say something to indicate that it's a bad time so I don't make things worse by trying to contact you or talking to you about something unrelated."

Or maybe I'm just being a chicken**** because I'm scared of having it confirmed how little they regard me and that I've invested far too much in them. :/

You sound like your affair is a threesome, why don't you simply use she or, as the case may be, he?

[2D8HP]

I posted this on another thread:

@Cicciograna,
If your looking for advice (you may very well just want the catharsis, of expressing your thoughts), it is well to still pursue relationships (I.e. connections/conversations) with other people, but avoid for now seeking "relationships" (romance).
In fact avoid thinking about your personal happiness much at all.
Instead pretend to take an interest in the well-being of others (collegues, students, grocery store clerks,, street beggers etc).
Ask them how their doing, pretend you care, maybe take a week off and volunteer for something like habitat for humanity.Tell jokes and try to get someone to smile. Do good work. Get outside your head and "fake it till you make it".
Even if you never get very happy, you'll at least have made the world a better place, and you may get some small satisfaction from that. In my experience happiness usually comes when your too busy to look for it.

Since it's been decades since I've done any dating or the like, I'm asking the wise ones who read this thread (and have better memories or more recent experiences) if I gave O.K. or terrible advice.
-Thanks

[Glass Mouse]

Spoiler: Spoilery stuff

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Part of why I'm uncertain is that between being busy and all, we haven't had a good chance to talk since then, and they've not responded to any of the rest of what I said on the subject. Some of which was said to be because they didn't know how to respond, but whether that was all of what was said or only specific parts was not specified. :/

I don't want to force a confrontation to ask and I'm a bit shaky on how to bring it up low-key instead of as a big, heavy conversation.

It's hard to have tells via text message. :/ When we talk on the phone or in person I can tell if they're tired, but that's usually about it.

I told them that the last thing I want is to make them feel worse because I care about them and they just haven't replied to me since about it, only talking at all a few days later. I guess I'm a bit lost as to how to say "Hey, I'm not asking you to spill your guts about what's bugging you if you don't feel comfortable telling me then and there or don't want to open up to me emotionally about vulnerable things like that until you're past them, but please just say something to indicate that it's a bad time so I don't make things worse by trying to contact you or talking to you about something unrelated."

Or maybe I'm just being a chicken**** because I'm scared of having it confirmed how little they regard me and that I've invested far too much in them. :/

Spoiler: spoilery stuff

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Still, they are the only person who knows what's going on in their head, so you pretty much have to ask them if you want an answer.

Of course I don't know the relationship you guys share, but it sounds like it's enough in the platonic/romantic grey area that you are not sure. That is certainly close enough that a clarification conversation should be able to happen without throwing everything into whack.

How about something like: "Hey, I've been thinking, and I realized that I didn't quite understand what you meant the other day when you said X, and I'm not quite sure if you were trying to redefine our relationship. Would you mind clarifying?"

For the second issue, you won't know until you've tried. And that script you posted here sounds perfect - maybe modify it to add context and send it? And be ready to accept that "Act normal, ignore problem" may indeed be what they want from you. You might not have to be the one to fix/help them, y'know.

I'm not sure I was the one who was taking things faster whilst she wanted to take things slowly-- in fact there were times I was wondering if she wasn't taking things faster than they were 'supposed' to go (by some arbitrary standard) but I wasn't sure because I'd never been in a relationship before. She was the first of us to say 'I love you' a couple days after we got together, the first to begin talking about the prospect of moving in together, the first to really start painting the picture of a shared future between us. And this was also the time that she was telling me she loved me 'more than anything' and that I was 'perfect', so I figure I can be forgiven for assuming our sentiments were equally intense, especially since after the anxiety began it became very important to her that I accept the things she said at face value rather than doubt and over-analyse them. (I also think the fact that she built up this shared future between us that's now gone is just making things worse, because... Well, I was dumb, and inexperienced, and silly with love for her, and I was just excited to have something to look forward to with somebody I love because I didn't feel like I had much to look forward to in my life otherwise. That being gone is just hurting even more.)


I considered that, but... Well, aside from the fact that we're both active on a mutual site that I'd not be very happy to have to leave at this point, I'm also afraid that if I try to get some distance to let my feelings settle down, she might interpret that as me being unable to stay friends with her, and that she might be hurt or annoyed by that. And I do want to remain friends with her; all I can do is wait for the point at which I'm no longer devastated by how things ended up and then things can be 'normal' between us again.

Thank you. Ain't really seein' much in the way of light currently, but I appreciate the kind words.

Hugs to you, Comrade. It'll get better, and you'll find love again, and it will be better and bigger and feel more secure, and it will make you so, so, so happy. I hope that time finds you soon, but even if it takes a while, that's totally okay too. Point is, you will be fine eventually, even if it hurts now.

Your description of your relationship sparked some thoughts in me, and it might be pure speculation, but I'll share anyway because it might be helpful.

Spoiler: on communicating love and moving fast

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There's a good lesson here, Comrade. I know it doesn't help the immediate hurt, but going forward, you may get better at recognizing unsubstantial statements for what they are. People who sling out the L-word very fast or build elaborate plans before they really know you are usually more in love with the feeling of love than they are in love with you. Sometimes they do stay in love after getting to know you properly, but more often, the hormone rush fades, and they realize that the two of you were always incompatible. It sounds like the latter happened here.

I know it sounds like everything your anxiety is telling you, but it's really not. She was telling you grandiose plans very early, and you're a smart person, so intuitively you knew it was too much too soon. No wonder your anxiety went into overdrive. Trying to convince yourself of something that you know not to be true (yet), something that cannot be true (yet), sounds like a recipe for crazy-making.

Going way overboard, being drunk on the feeling of love, is very common for people who are inexperienced and/or confused. I suppose some people never stop doing it. But it can be very helpful to allow yourself to disbelieve parts of the statements. When someone tells you that you're perfect, that doesn't mean they'll never nitpick your habit of leaving wet towels on the floor. When they tell you that you'll live together in a mansion with pancakes every morning, that does not mean they have thought through and planned a single step of the plan. It just means that they are experiencing such overwhelming joy from talking to you or interacting with you that they, temporarily, believe anything to be possible. They're not lying or acting in bad faith. They're just communicating feelings by talking about intentions.

[FinnLassie]

Oh, God, I've accidentally/involuntarily fallen into some petty relationship shizzles. Can't really call it drama, but... shizzles is an appropriate term. The semester started just about a week ago and it seems that two guys are already under the impression that I'm interested in them.

Just venting. Now at least I know which friend I should not tell when and if I think a guy looks too damn good to be true.

[TechnOkami]

I wanted to repost this here because I wanted to get some feedback on it. Also, I feel like this belongs both in Persona Woes and the Relationship Advice thread, though here is most appropriate. Anyways, I'm not really sure what I'm looking for by posting this. Acknowledgent? Critique? Feedback? Other's thoughts? Am I out of wack with my thoughts or am I thinking relatively right on this? We'll see.

Spoiler: Said Post In Question

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Oof... where to begin and how to summarize?

High School: floated through it, met my first girlfriend, general attitudes and personality didn't change all that much.

College: floating lead to drowning. Unresolved depression and anxieties + a lack of diligence, a hefty dose of video game playing, apathy, and a continuing to be messed up sleep schedule lead to a not very happy TechnO. Eventually I couldn't handle it and decided I needed to come home, recuperate, see a therapist, and attempt college a little a lot closer to home (I was a state away). I was still with my girlfriend of 7+ years at this time.

College closer to home made me realize that I didn't care about College, and having a lack of direction in the academic system and no motivation, I decided to eventually stop altogether. Before this, I broke up with my girlfriend. I was content and lazy in the relationship, and she wanted more. My passivity was hurting her, and I cared enough to not want to hurt her anymore, so I broke it up, for better or for worse.

This lead to a void of intimacy, which carried with me as I started looking for a job. Long story short I hooked up with a girl from my workplace. She wasn't interested in dating me, but she didn't mind hooking up every now and then. Relatively recently she stopped wanting to come over, and before/after doing so I became extremely self-reflective. I started to question myself, why I was feeling the way I was, the reasonings for my desires, my wants and needs, who and how I was as a person, etc. etc.

This is what I believe about what I've learned.

I've been under the delusion that I needed a relationship to be happy without ever really understanding what a relationship meant. Not being at peace with who I was and what I wanted was a thorough self setup for failure. I've conquered my anxieties. It no longer has the same stronghold over my life as it did, and I feel far more at peace because of it. While my creative endeavors have all but ground to a halt, I still play a crap-ton of games basically nightly, and because Twitch exists I can even make a living at it one day. I can actually stream now since the internet in my house got upgraded, and I'm really happy about that. I'm probably not going to go back to College. I should, but I don't like having to re-learn what I've already learned for the third time around. I'm never going to have a profession so math heavy that I will be solving complex equations on a daily basis and yet I am required to attend and pass these classes. I'm tired of it, and I'm too lazy and undisciplined to really put any effort towards a College education again.

Anyways, back onto relationships from that tangent.

I work at a grocery next to a college. I work with meat products day in and day out. Every day I see beautiful women walk in, roam around, buy thing, and then head back out. Sometimes they're alone, sometimes they're coupled with someone else. I wouldn't mind being in a relationship, I really wouldn't. The thing though is that I don't really do any of the extraverted things one would usually do to go out and meet people because I don't really enjoy going out. I am a gigantic homebody, because everything I like doing I can do in the comfort of the house I reside in. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to share what I do at home with someone else and be friends and potentially more because of it, but when I have a free day from work, all I want to do is be home, relaxing, playing video games. In fact, that's all I've ever really enjoyed doing, aside from looking at art online/youtube I suppose. But at the same time, while a relationship with someone would be nice, I don't need one to be happy, so why bother? I'm happy with where I am and who I am, and though I see these beautiful people all around me I don't know how to get them to see me like I see me. Plus, while most of them might be physically attractive, I know nothing about them, who they are, what they like, what they want, their interests, what they do, etc. Why should I bother working towards a relationship if it's so damn hard to get one, and even if I were to, like, I don't really like getting out. I'm happy and comfy at home, and I bet that a lot of the women out there would see me as boring because of it. And even if I could get someone to look past all that and date me anyways, that's still no guarantee that our relationship would be a success. Plus, like, I don't really want children. If anything I think I would be a neglectful parent.

I dunno, i just feel like you have to give so much to gain so little... I hope this all expresses how I feel accurately. Please ask me anything you want. I'm not shy to questions.

[lio45]

I wanted to repost this here because I wanted to get some feedback on it. Also, I feel like this belongs both in Persona Woes and the Relationship Advice thread, though here is most appropriate. Anyways, I'm not really sure what I'm looking for by posting this. Acknowledgent? Critique? Feedback? Other's thoughts? Am I out of wack with my thoughts or am I thinking relatively right on this? We'll see.

Spoiler: Said Post In Question

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Oof... where to begin and how to summarize?

High School: floated through it, met my first girlfriend, general attitudes and personality didn't change all that much.

College: floating lead to drowning. Unresolved depression and anxieties + a lack of diligence, a hefty dose of video game playing, apathy, and a continuing to be messed up sleep schedule lead to a not very happy TechnO. Eventually I couldn't handle it and decided I needed to come home, recuperate, see a therapist, and attempt college a little a lot closer to home (I was a state away). I was still with my girlfriend of 7+ years at this time.

College closer to home made me realize that I didn't care about College, and having a lack of direction in the academic system and no motivation, I decided to eventually stop altogether. Before this, I broke up with my girlfriend. I was content and lazy in the relationship, and she wanted more. My passivity was hurting her, and I cared enough to not want to hurt her anymore, so I broke it up, for better or for worse.

This lead to a void of intimacy, which carried with me as I started looking for a job. Long story short I hooked up with a girl from my workplace. She wasn't interested in dating me, but she didn't mind hooking up every now and then. Relatively recently she stopped wanting to come over, and before/after doing so I became extremely self-reflective. I started to question myself, why I was feeling the way I was, the reasonings for my desires, my wants and needs, who and how I was as a person, etc. etc.

This is what I believe about what I've learned.

I've been under the delusion that I needed a relationship to be happy without ever really understanding what a relationship meant. Not being at peace with who I was and what I wanted was a thorough self setup for failure. I've conquered my anxieties. It no longer has the same stronghold over my life as it did, and I feel far more at peace because of it. While my creative endeavors have all but ground to a halt, I still play a crap-ton of games basically nightly, and because Twitch exists I can even make a living at it one day. I can actually stream now since the internet in my house got upgraded, and I'm really happy about that. I'm probably not going to go back to College. I should, but I don't like having to re-learn what I've already learned for the third time around. I'm never going to have a profession so math heavy that I will be solving complex equations on a daily basis and yet I am required to attend and pass these classes. I'm tired of it, and I'm too lazy and undisciplined to really put any effort towards a College education again.

Anyways, back onto relationships from that tangent.

I work at a grocery next to a college. I work with meat products day in and day out. Every day I see beautiful women walk in, roam around, buy thing, and then head back out. Sometimes they're alone, sometimes they're coupled with someone else. I wouldn't mind being in a relationship, I really wouldn't. The thing though is that I don't really do any of the extraverted things one would usually do to go out and meet people because I don't really enjoy going out. I am a gigantic homebody, because everything I like doing I can do in the comfort of the house I reside in. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to share what I do at home with someone else and be friends and potentially more because of it, but when I have a free day from work, all I want to do is be home, relaxing, playing video games. In fact, that's all I've ever really enjoyed doing, aside from looking at art online/youtube I suppose. But at the same time, while a relationship with someone would be nice, I don't need one to be happy, so why bother? I'm happy with where I am and who I am, and though I see these beautiful people all around me I don't know how to get them to see me like I see me. Plus, while most of them might be physically attractive, I know nothing about them, who they are, what they like, what they want, their interests, what they do, etc. Why should I bother working towards a relationship if it's so damn hard to get one, and even if I were to, like, I don't really like getting out. I'm happy and comfy at home, and I bet that a lot of the women out there would see me as boring because of it. And even if I could get someone to look past all that and date me anyways, that's still no guarantee that our relationship would be a success. Plus, like, I don't really want children. If anything I think I would be a neglectful parent.

I dunno, i just feel like you have to give so much to gain so little... I hope this all expresses how I feel accurately. Please ask me anything you want. I'm not shy to questions.

I think I can relate a bit, being somewhat of a mild sociopath myself (I don't crave human contact as much as the typical person does).

My exes were usually needy/clingy (by my standards) and after most breakups the feeling was basically "aaahhh, being single again, how enjoyable!!"

On the other hand, I absolutely want kids someday. I am starting to think I finally have the correct Mrs Right for that (she's also pretty independent, though she will always start to miss me before I start to miss her).

If I didn't want kids though, I would probably be just as happy, or maybe even slightly happier overall, in celibacy. In my views, there are pros and cons to being in a relationship, and they're pretty much identical in strength for someone like me (and presumably you), while I'm sure for the average person the pros would outweigh the cons for the relationship, and the opposite for celibacy.

In your current state, it seems like a ****friend is what would be optimal, if you can manage that without too much drama / sentiment.

[Icewraith]

I wanted to repost this here because I wanted to get some feedback on it. Also, I feel like this belongs both in Persona Woes and the Relationship Advice thread, though here is most appropriate. Anyways, I'm not really sure what I'm looking for by posting this. Acknowledgent? Critique? Feedback? Other's thoughts? Am I out of wack with my thoughts or am I thinking relatively right on this? We'll see.

Spoiler: Said Post In Question

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Oof... where to begin and how to summarize?

High School: floated through it, met my first girlfriend, general attitudes and personality didn't change all that much.

College: floating lead to drowning. Unresolved depression and anxieties + a lack of diligence, a hefty dose of video game playing, apathy, and a continuing to be messed up sleep schedule lead to a not very happy TechnO. Eventually I couldn't handle it and decided I needed to come home, recuperate, see a therapist, and attempt college a little a lot closer to home (I was a state away). I was still with my girlfriend of 7+ years at this time.

College closer to home made me realize that I didn't care about College, and having a lack of direction in the academic system and no motivation, I decided to eventually stop altogether. Before this, I broke up with my girlfriend. I was content and lazy in the relationship, and she wanted more. My passivity was hurting her, and I cared enough to not want to hurt her anymore, so I broke it up, for better or for worse.

This lead to a void of intimacy, which carried with me as I started looking for a job. Long story short I hooked up with a girl from my workplace. She wasn't interested in dating me, but she didn't mind hooking up every now and then. Relatively recently she stopped wanting to come over, and before/after doing so I became extremely self-reflective. I started to question myself, why I was feeling the way I was, the reasonings for my desires, my wants and needs, who and how I was as a person, etc. etc.

This is what I believe about what I've learned.

I've been under the delusion that I needed a relationship to be happy without ever really understanding what a relationship meant. Not being at peace with who I was and what I wanted was a thorough self setup for failure. I've conquered my anxieties. It no longer has the same stronghold over my life as it did, and I feel far more at peace because of it. While my creative endeavors have all but ground to a halt, I still play a crap-ton of games basically nightly, and because Twitch exists I can even make a living at it one day. I can actually stream now since the internet in my house got upgraded, and I'm really happy about that. I'm probably not going to go back to College. I should, but I don't like having to re-learn what I've already learned for the third time around. I'm never going to have a profession so math heavy that I will be solving complex equations on a daily basis and yet I am required to attend and pass these classes. I'm tired of it, and I'm too lazy and undisciplined to really put any effort towards a College education again.

Anyways, back onto relationships from that tangent.

I work at a grocery next to a college. I work with meat products day in and day out. Every day I see beautiful women walk in, roam around, buy thing, and then head back out. Sometimes they're alone, sometimes they're coupled with someone else. I wouldn't mind being in a relationship, I really wouldn't. The thing though is that I don't really do any of the extraverted things one would usually do to go out and meet people because I don't really enjoy going out. I am a gigantic homebody, because everything I like doing I can do in the comfort of the house I reside in. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to share what I do at home with someone else and be friends and potentially more because of it, but when I have a free day from work, all I want to do is be home, relaxing, playing video games. In fact, that's all I've ever really enjoyed doing, aside from looking at art online/youtube I suppose. But at the same time, while a relationship with someone would be nice, I don't need one to be happy, so why bother? I'm happy with where I am and who I am, and though I see these beautiful people all around me I don't know how to get them to see me like I see me. Plus, while most of them might be physically attractive, I know nothing about them, who they are, what they like, what they want, their interests, what they do, etc. Why should I bother working towards a relationship if it's so damn hard to get one, and even if I were to, like, I don't really like getting out. I'm happy and comfy at home, and I bet that a lot of the women out there would see me as boring because of it. And even if I could get someone to look past all that and date me anyways, that's still no guarantee that our relationship would be a success. Plus, like, I don't really want children. If anything I think I would be a neglectful parent.

I dunno, i just feel like you have to give so much to gain so little... I hope this all expresses how I feel accurately. Please ask me anything you want. I'm not shy to questions.

The problem I'm having is that most of my responses to your post are really only valid if you share at least some of my experiences, preferences, talents, intellectual strengths, etc. If you have no science or math based interests, advising you to go back to school to get a science-y job is like advising a fish to grow laser cannons. If you're really only into art, going back to school would probably just put you in debt.

Instead I'll focus on some of the effort-related benefits of advanced (cohabiting) relationships to a person who is happily single:

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1: Balance. My wife gets me out of the house and social more often than I would normally and I get her to relax and play video games more often than she would normally. So I get some social and she doesn't burn out overbooking herself. While social isn't my preferred activity, I think I do (or my body does) better if I get the occasional social activity, outdoors/nature stuff, etc on weekends.

2: Chore distribution/efficiency. We still have to do some of the chores that we both hate, but the stuff I don't mind doing or am better at I do and ditto for her.

3: Backup. Just because I could live by myself and probably be pretty happy doesn't mean I need to. If you're both going through tough times it's about the same, but if only one of you is then the other one can be there to help out. Also, two structures braced against each other can take much more load than two structures standing individually can each take.

4: Variety. If I never have an experience, I'll never know if I like it or not. My wife and I have some different interests, so I've been exposed to things I wouldn't normally have if I lived on my own and the same for her. We've both discovered things we enjoyed we didn't know about previously from each other.

5: Perspective. I have, basically on demand, access to someone who thinks differently than I do and can cover the blind spots in my thinking.

6: Income/expenses. Buying a larger amount of something is often less expensive per unit than two people individually buying smaller amounts of the same thing. It holds especially true for living space, insurance, and most consumable goods. You don't need to duplicate things like appliances. Even if only one of you works, you're still generally buying things more efficiently than two single people.

7: Gaming-related Teamwork. You'll spend less time looking for people and more time actually playing games in multiplayer games. The effect will be especially pronounced in MMOs and MOBAs if one or both of you tanks or heals/supports. My wife doesn't have to wait in a 45-minute queue for a dungeon and I have at least one guaranteed DPS I trust to not stand in the fire. In single player games with a multiplayer option you'll have one less idiot AI partner and one more buddy who can act as part of a coherent plan (hopefully).

8: The obvious relationship stuff. Yeah you actually have to put effort in, but you also get to have sex with another person! (I recognize this may not actually be a benefit for some people.)

[Knaight]

I've been under the delusion that I needed a relationship to be happy without ever really understanding what a relationship meant. Not being at peace with who I was and what I wanted was a thorough self setup for failure. I've conquered my anxieties. It no longer has the same stronghold over my life as it did, and I feel far more at peace because of it. While my creative endeavors have all but ground to a halt, I still play a crap-ton of games basically nightly, and because Twitch exists I can even make a living at it one day. I can actually stream now since the internet in my house got upgraded, and I'm really happy about that. I'm probably not going to go back to College. I should, but I don't like having to re-learn what I've already learned for the third time around. I'm never going to have a profession so math heavy that I will be solving complex equations on a daily basis and yet I am required to attend and pass these classes. I'm tired of it, and I'm too lazy and undisciplined to really put any effort towards a College education again.[/spoiler]

I'm not saying you have to go to college by any means (there's some nice paying trades that don't involve it, e.g. welding), but the plan you've outlined here doesn't really look feasible, and if the only issue is math then you can quickly get the one class required out of the way and call it a day for any number of degrees.

[TechnOkami]

If we're being honest here, I wouldn't mind a pair of shoulder mounted laser cannons... hell, Power Armor would be even better.

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I generally agree with all of your points, save for #1. Super frankly, I really don't care about socializing. I'm not a party goer, and if my choices are to go out towards a large group of people and staying home? Unless it's a restaurant, a concert, a show, the movies, running around with my mom to wherever she's heading off to, or a small intimate party, I really am not into socializing. But other than that I generally agree with what you've said.

Hm...

My thoughts are generally the same. Having a girlfriend would be nice, but I'm content doing things on my own and I don't really care about putting myself out there like that anymore. Having someone there for me would be nice, but dating isn't enjoyable to me.

[AMFV]

I'm not saying you have to go to college by any means (there's some nice paying trades that don't involve it, e.g. welding), but the plan you've outlined here doesn't really look feasible, and if the only issue is math then you can quickly get the one class required out of the way and call it a day for any number of degrees.

To be fair, welding requires a certification if you're really going to make money. I know quite a few welders who had to go back to college to get certified, because they couldn't make decent money without. Most trades require some sort of semi-formal or formal education if they're worth paying. After all, if anybody could just up and do it, then nobody would pay decently for it.

On topic: If math is a real problem for somebody, I would suggest they try and CLEP out of it, as long as they're passable at tests, it's a lot less studying and time, and for lower level math courses, it tends to be accepted in a lot of places.

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As far as it goes, dating isn't necessarily supposed to be all that enjoyable. It's kind of like college or an apprenticeship, or trade school. It's the work you're putting in before-hand to get to the part that's actually fun. It involves going on a lot of things that aren't going to pan out, and that sucks all-around. Of course, desperation is a bad tack, but complete apathy can be as well, unless that's something you're going to be content with later.

[Knaight]

To be fair, welding requires a certification if you're really going to make money. I know quite a few welders who had to go back to college to get certified, because they couldn't make decent money without. Most trades require some sort of semi-formal or formal education if they're worth paying. After all, if anybody could just up and do it, then nobody would pay decently for it.

Yeah, but the training involved isn't college. It's a very different environment, and some people who really don't find college works for them thrive in it*. It's also a viable plan, whereas making a living playing video games publicly is a very long shot.

*Some people who couldn't do well in that environment also do very well in college; I mean different environment and not lesser one here.

[AMFV]

Yeah, but the training involved isn't college. It's a very different environment, and some people who really don't find college works for them thrive in it*. It's also a viable plan, whereas making a living playing video games publicly is a very long shot.

*Some people who couldn't do well in that environment also do very well in college; I mean different environment and not lesser one here.

Well actually, I'm taking welding in a college now. Although I will agree that the environment is very different from what I experienced at a four-year regular institution. I would say that trying to make a living playing video games is a really long shot, particularly because that's so competitive right now, and the other problem is that the amount of work it probably takes (to research your market, cultivate a following, perfect a gimmick) is a lot more than people expect. People tend to significantly under-estimate the amount of work involved in most non-standard professions.

[Deathslayer7]

So I have a really really long post coming up. I could use some advice on how to treat this. I hope I explained how I am feeling. It's hard right now.

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A few things to note before i get started:

• We have been best friends since 4th grade; that is about 15+ years of friendship.
• He is now a she; but I will refer to he before she switched. Not out of malice or spite or anything, but just to present a clear, concise train of thought. More on this later.
• I've been planning my wedding for almost two years now. It is a big wedding ~175 people give or take.
• I made my best friend the best man, but then had to drop him to a groomsmen because of reasons.

So I live in Vegas and my best friend lives in Reno. He moved there about 5 years ago, and while we don't talk as much as we normally would if he lived down here, we still had a perfectly good relationship. I would come visit 1-2 a year when I could make it. Him a little less often. We talked and texted, etc. like normal people. I've tried being friendly with his girlfriend (soon to be wife), but I almost feel like she is scared of stepping out of her bubble. Every time I've been up there, and I'm having a good time with him, she would come in to ruin the party. I didn't say anything at the time because I didn't want to rock the boat or make her feel unwelcome. Honestly though, it sucked and it ruined my time there.

Some examples (this is the course over years):

• We were at a bar in Reno, and she didn't want him drinking. I mean socially drinking not looking to get drunk. This stems back to her fear of her dad being an alcoholic. I can partially understand this, but she has never understood that having a beer and talking is not the same as being an alcoholic.
• We were having a board game night/DnD night and she threw the biggest fit in front of multiple people that just ruined the rest of the night and people left.
• More to come later

A year ago he got married. No reception, no ceremony. Literally they just walked into the courthouse with two witnesses. I was hurt because I found out through a text message saying "We got married!" plus a picture. Apparently it was a spur of the moment but it still hurt because I wanted to be there for him and I didn't get that chance. I never really got the full story out of him as to why he got married and that is one of the parts that still stings at me to this day. Sometimes I think they might have gotten married to do it before me. I don't know anymore if they would be that petty or not but I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

A few months ago, he came out to me as transgender. I know this must have been hard for her. I might not agree with that choice, but I will fully support her and I will not judge her for it. That is a personal choice and I'm sure it was not something that came easy to her. The problem I have is again, I got a text saying "I'm transgender" and no explanation whatsoever to follow why she chose to switch.

Fast forward to today, I am having my wedding this Saturday, and I just got a message last night/this morning saying she wasn't going to make it to the wedding. Before the wedding even started, she knew she was a groomsmen, and after she came out, I specifically asked her "If she felt comfortable enough to dress in a tux?" for that night. At the time she said yes, but not she changed her mind. 4 days before the wedding.

Her argument is:

• Money is a very big issues for her. I offered to help split the costs with her. While I can't afford a flight because they are super expensive at this point, I did offer to help rent a car and pay for it and have her drive down.
• This above part really irks me because they came two weeks before the wedding to hang out and drove down (both her and her wife). You have money two weeks ago to drive down, but two weeks later you don't? I think it was to tell me about the wedding and how she wouldn't make it, but she never got around to it. It also irked me because we were supposed to hang out, but it never really happened. Her wife wanted to go meet with her sister, and my best friend went with her. We took them out to dinner the first night and let them stay in the spare bedroom. That's about all the hanging out we really did. After that they just hung out with her sister. I understand she wants to hang out with her sister, but what about me? They were supposed to make dinner for us the last night but we didn't get a text till 8pm saying they were with her sister getting a tattoo and couldn't make dinner. 8pm! I figured it out at that point. I felt a bit used.
• She doesn't want to do the drive down here. It is 7.5 hour drive and I understand. It is a long/boring drive especially when she comes in Friday night and has to leave Sunday morning. I feel like this is partly poor planning on her part for not asking for a day off. Yes I understand the drive sucks, but I only get married once and you are my best friend. I want you there.
• She doesn't feel she can handle the pressure of being down here alone without her support. I feel this is the only reasonable one of the bunch. I understand I am asking a lot here, but I specifically asked her when you came out to me if this was going to be a problem because I didn't want her doing something she wasn't comfortable with. If you didn't want to dress up in a tux, just tell me. I would have been slightly hurt but I would have understood. I still would have invited you as a guest.

Anyway, yeah so now 4 days before I get a text saying she is dropping out because she can't handle it. Being frank, I'm hurt. At this point I feel like I can't call her my best friend anymore. I knew HIM, I don't know HER. I don't know what she does for fun anymore. I don't know what she does day to day. Is it still the same? Is it different? At this point I feel like we are starting over, and I don't know how to communicate that without making it feel like she is being attacked.

To sum it up, I feel the wedding and the transgender hit me out of the blue. No explanation, no apology, nothing. Then this just happened and I'm done. I accepted it the first two times, but this time I just can't do it anymore. It hurts so much, I imagined myself sitting on the floor vodka bottle in hand drinking just to dull the pain last night. I feel so much pain and I'm constantly disappointed and this was the last straw. I talked with my soon-to-be-wife last night and cried. I haven't cried in ages. This morning isn't much better.

So how do I got about explaining all this to my ex-best friend? I should say I have no problem rekindling the friendship, but after all this, I'm not sure if I even want too.

[AMFV]

So I have a really really long post coming up. I could use some advice on how to treat this. I hope I explained how I am feeling. It's hard right now.

Note (I'm responding to the spoilered text:

I wouldn't actually do anything. Your friend is clearly pulling themselves out of the situation with you. Any kind of grand declarations of cessation of friendship are just going to be painful for everybody, and really somewhat pointless in the end. It sounds like you're doing the reaching out to them, so if that's not happening, I imagine that you'll just continue to get more distant, since that's what you want, I would just let it be, the other sort of direction tends to lead to a lot of hurt feelings all around, and isn't likely to make you feel any better.