Changes to the 3.5 Fighter

[AnimeTheCat]

Hey Playground, I had some ideas to try and make the 3.5 Fighter class relevant for more than 2 or 4 levels.

My first set of ideas was to replace the dead levels in the fighter class, so every odd level after first.
My second set of ideas was to make the class more SAD, focusing either on Con or Str, leaning heavily towards Con.
My third, and final, set of ideas was to give the fighter more skills and skill points to increase their out of combat capabilities.

The first set of ideas was fairly easy to come up with ideas for. You will want ways to boost your will and reflex saves since those are bad for you, and you'll want things that give you some out of combat utility. These class abilities are primarily focused on Con, with a few of them possibly working with strength as well or possibly only with strength. These ideas are as follows:

Skill Points: (4+int)x4 at first level, 4+int every level after first.

Class Skills: Add Hide, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Search, Sense Motive, Spot, and Use Rope to the Fighter's list of class skills.

Sturdy Footing (Ex): because of your intense training you have learned how to keep your footing where others may lose theirs. You may add your constitution bonus (If any) to your Balance skill and reflex saving throws to remain standing or avoid slipping, falling, being immobilized, or any other affect that effects movement and can be resisted with a reflex saving throw.

Bear the Brunt (Ex): Due to your intense fortitude, you may use your Fortitude saving throw in place of a Reflex saving throw to resist affects that cause damage to you and allow a Reflex saving throw for a reduced effect. An example of this is using your Fortitude saving throw in place of your Reflex saving throw to take only half damage from a Fireball spell. You may stack this with evasion if you have it from another class or magic item.

Matter over Mind (Ex): Through your training, you have managed to shut out influences from the situations you put yourself in. You may use your Fortitude saving throw in place of a Will saving throw against mind altering affects. An example of this is using a Fortitude saving throw in place of a Will saving throw to resist the effects of a Charm Person spell.

Unorthodox Methods (Ex): Due to the versatility of your training, you may make any skill check that has Dexterity as the governing attribute with either your Strength or Constitution modifier in place of your dexterity modifier. This ability stacks with the Sturdy Footing class ability, even if you choose to replace the dexterity modifier with your constitution modifier, meaning if you use this ability to replace your Dexterity modifier with your Constitution modifier on a balance check to remain standing or avoid a movement altering affect, you use your Constitution modifier x2 as your total modifier on that check.

Second Skin (Ex): You have spent so much time in your armor that it feels like a second skin to you. You may treat the Armor Check Penalty of any armor you wear as one point lower per point of Constitution modifier you have, up to your Fighter Class level, with the lowest an armor check penalty going to 0. For instance, if you were a 7th level fighter with a 20 constitution score, you could subtract 5 points from the armor check penalty of any armor you wear. This means you could wear up to Chainmail without an armor check penalty, a breastplate would have an armor check penalty of 0, and full plate would have an armor check penalty of -1.

Deflect (Ex): Due to the training you have with armor, you gain DR equal to the armor bonus provided by the armor you wear up to a maximum of one half your fighter class level (Maximum DR 10). The weakness for your DR is any magic weapon with an enhancement bonus equal to one quarter your fighter class level (Maximum Magic +5). This means that a level 20 fighter wearing +2 Full plate would have DR 10/Magic +5. An 8th level fighter wearing a breastplate would have DR 4/Magic +2.

Outsourced Training (Ex): You have outsourced some training for yourself granting you the ability to choose one skill and treat it as a class skill.

Loyal Beyond Death (Ex): You have trained hard and developed such a strong bond with your party that you can stand and keep fighting, even when the circumstances would normally drop someone of lower caliber. When you are reduced to between negative hit points you may continue fighting as normal for a number of rounds equal to your constitution modifier times 2. Additionally, you do not die when reduced to -10 hit points. You must be reduced to negative hit points equal to twice your constitution score. For instance, if a fighter has a constitution score of 20, they may keep fighting as normal for 10 rounds after entering negative hit points. Additionally, that fighter must be reduced to -40 hit points to be killed. Once the fighter has been fighting for a number of rounds equal to 2 times their constitution modifier they are unconscious, but immediately stabilized. If a fighter is brought back in to positive hit points and then later reduced to negative hit points during the same combat, the number of round they have to act restarts. (I feel like this should be either the level 15 or level 19 class ability as it is quite strong. Possibly 13, but none of the other abilities above seem like they would be beneficial to such a high level character.)

So, those are the abilities that I've thought of. What do you guys think? What would you add/change, correct, reword, etc. I'm open to ideas. This is all an idea as of now. Levels have yet to be assigned to the various abilities. I don't think these changes make the fighter too powerful in any way, because full casters that's why. Does it bring them up in tiers, heck yes, I don't see how it couldn't. It may even make Fighter desirable (especially if I decide that I want to make Outsourced Training a lower level class ability so you can qualify for a wider array of PrCs).

Well let me know what you think! I like them all, but I'm biased I'm open for any and all input!

[ngilop]

1) fort instead of will has never made any sense to me. fort instead of reflex seems better, that way you arejust shrugging off the fire ball not so much dodging it.

then you can go semi-pathfinder style and give the fighter a bonus to will saves versus fear, charm, compulsion at every Xth level.

2) the fighter is pretty good in combat, and does not need a big boost in that as much as a MASSIVE boost to out of combat use and overall utility.

take a look at my NPC Warior HINT: it actually an upgraded Fighter class itself

and then give the fighter some way to deal with opponent more than just AC wise, have them attack all 3 saves and actually be able to incur different status effects, like saze, sicken etc etc.

I will go one for one and give my take
Sturdy Footing make this a certain interval increase ( i.e. every 3rd level is +1) instead of +con

Bear the Brunt (Ex) I like this, but would change it up to be base fort modified by dex mod

Matter over Mind (Ex) already spoke on this

Unorthodox Methods (Ex) Again just a set interval; increase would be better for certain skills rather than a stat.

Second Skin (Ex) Pathfinder does this.. with armor training and better.. take that instead of this version.

Deflect A little too much I feel at first level one could b effectily immune to damage, instead I would give them Scaling DR similar to a barbarian but make it come online early.. like dr1/- at 1st increasing at 4th and every 4th thereafter so dr6/- at 20.


Outsourcetraining NO, fighters should have decent skills and skill points ( your adding skills and going 4 per level is great!) but skill monkey they are not ..

Loyal Beyond Death (Ex) a Nice high level ability ( like 14-18ish)



STEAL these ability from the lore warden (pathfinder archetype)
Know Thy Enemy (Ex)

At 7th level, a lore warden can take a standard action to study a specific target in sight. He must make a Knowledge check to determine the target’s abilities and weaknesses as part of this standard action. If successful, the lore warden not only notes the appropriate abilities and weaknesses, as detailed under the Knowledge skill, but also gains a +2 competence bonus on all attack rolls and weapon damage rolls made against that enemy. Note that this bonus on attack and damage rolls applies only to that specific creature. This bonus lasts for the duration of an encounter, or until the lore warden attempts a new Knowledge check to use this ability on a different target.
At 14th level, a lore warden can use his Know Thy Enemy ability as a swift action.

Hair’s Breadth (Ex)

At 11th level, a lore warden can attempt an Acrobatics Tumble/balance check as an immediate action to negate a confirmation role for a critical hit. The critical hit confirmation is negated (though the attack still hits and deals normal damage) if the Acrobatics Tumble/balance check is greater than the opponent’s confirmation roll.

These abilities form the Tatctician (pathfinder archetype)
Tactical Awareness
At 2nd level, a tactician gains a +1 bonus on initiative checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels after 2nd level (to a maximum of +5 at 18th level).


Tactician
At 5th level, a tactician gains the tactician ability as the cavalier class feature. He may use this ability once per day at 5th level, plus one additional time for every five levels after 5th (to a maximum of four times at 20th level). If the tactician also has cavalier levels, these levels stack for determining the number of uses per day, and he can take the better progression.

Cooperative Combatant
At 11th level, when a tactician uses the aid another special attack, he may affect one additional ally per point of Intelligence bonus. For each ally that a tactician aids, he can pick whether to grant that ally the +2 bonus on its next attack against the opponent or the +2 bonus to AC against the opponent’s next attack on that ally, and can grant different allies different bonuses.

Battle Insight
At 15th level, as a swift action, a tactician can grant his Intelligence modifier as an insight bonus on the attack rolls made by a single ally within line of sight that can both see and hear the tactician. That ally gains the bonus until the end of the tactician’s next turn. The tactician can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Intelligence modifier.

Take a look at Jiriku's and Grod the Giants many fixes and the design philosophy on what a fighter should be that Zeigander was lauded for (and mysteriously I myself was criticized for when I posted the same thing a few months [weeks maybe..?] before Zeigander's).

basically the best advice I can give you is do nto go into it thinking the fighter needs big numbars rarw!' think, what can the fighter's player do besides roll a d20 to help his group out and stay relevant.