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  1. - Top - End - #151
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Marlowe's Avatar

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    [Hand up]

    Good sirs, ladies; might I ask what the frell is the Emerald Legion? Because I keep seeing references to it here and there but nobody ever says what it is, and all I can get on google are other old threads where people refer to it without ever explaining what it is.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    FearlessGnome's Avatar

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlowe View Post
    [Hand up]

    Good sirs, ladies; might I ask what the frell is the Emerald Legion? Because I keep seeing references to it here and there but nobody ever says what it is, and all I can get on google are other old threads where people refer to it without ever explaining what it is.
    It's this abomination. It's special bred to be immune to almost everything, and it cheats the action economy by having Mind Flayers controlling it and casting psionics through it. Basically, if an adventuring party stumbles upon one, the only thing they will reasonably have prepared to deal with it is Wish to teleport it far, far away from them.
    Throw the dice high.

  3. - Top - End - #153
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Marlowe's Avatar

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Thank you. I found that thread, but thought it was just a reference to something these "Emerald Legion" guys were doing, rather than what they were. The explanation of where the name comes from is buried half-way down the second spoiler.

    The way some mention it it made me think it was something official.

  4. - Top - End - #154
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    It's forum-official, Marlowe. That's almost as good as official. Better than official, in some cases. Take this very thread for example: do you really think the "official" publications knew what they were doing on some of these creatures?

    So does this thread mean monsters only, or can we discuss templates also?
    See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.

    Anyone is welcome to use or critique my 3.5 Fighter homebrew: The Vanguard.

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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    It's forum-official, Marlowe. That's almost as good as official. Better than official, in some cases. Take this very thread for example: do you really think the "official" publications knew what they were doing on some of these creatures?

    So does this thread mean monsters only, or can we discuss templates also?
    go for it.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Inevitability's Avatar

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    If templates are okay, I'd like to mention Umbral. It's like a shadow, except the variety of possible base creatures ensures you won't be able to create a single strategy against these as easily.
    Creator of the LA-assignment thread.

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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Well let's start with the Corrupted template from the Book of Vile Darkness. Boosts to Str and Con with minor penalties to Dex, Wis, and Cha. Boost to natural armor, scaling DR with HD, damage dice of natural attacks increases one size with partial vile damage, fast healing, increased DC for special attacks. All with scaling CR from +1-3 based off of HD.

    All with no listed Level Adjustment. Not LA: -, it doesn't even have a Level Adjustment entry.
    Last edited by illyahr; 2016-08-20 at 11:35 AM.
    See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.

    Anyone is welcome to use or critique my 3.5 Fighter homebrew: The Vanguard.

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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Ferronach's Avatar

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Well let's start with the Corrupted template from the Book of Vile Darkness. Boosts to Str and Con with minor penalties to Dex, Wis, and Cha. Boost to natural armor, scaling DR with HD, damage dice of natural attacks increases one size with partial vile damage, fast healing, increased DC for special attacks. All with scaling CR from +1-3 based off of HD.

    All with no listed Level Adjustment. Not LA: -, it doesn't even have a Level Adjustment entry.
    I think that this is one of the reasons for the disclaimer at the beginning of the book. The one called "HIDE THIS BOOK!" which says that the book is for DMs only.
    As if that ever stopped anyone...

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Well let's start with the Corrupted template from the Book of Vile Darkness. Boosts to Str and Con with minor penalties to Dex, Wis, and Cha. Boost to natural armor, scaling DR with HD, damage dice of natural attacks increases one size with partial vile damage, fast healing, increased DC for special attacks. All with scaling CR from +1-3 based off of HD.

    All with no listed Level Adjustment. Not LA: -, it doesn't even have a Level Adjustment entry.
    BoVD is 3.0 - it doesn't incorporate the LA mechanic. The template does add 1-3 CR, which seems fair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faily View Post
    Read ExLibrisMortis' post...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Libris: look at your allowed sources. I don't think any of your options were from those.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by ExLibrisMortis View Post
    BoVD is 3.0 - it doesn't incorporate the LA mechanic. The template does add 1-3 CR, which seems fair.
    It means that a 1 HD badger has damage reduction 10/magic, fast healing 10, Str 12 Dex 15 Con 19 (before raging), and does a point of Vile damage (which cannot be healed without a remove curse or better) with each attack. Has a pair of +3/1d3+1 Claw attacks and a -2/1d4 Bite attack. AC of 17. It also has Darkvision 60 and Immunity to Acid (incidental at this level).

    This is a CR 1 creature.
    See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.

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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    It means that a 1 HD badger has damage reduction 10/magic, fast healing 10, Str 12 Dex 15 Con 19 (before raging), and does a point of Vile damage (which cannot be healed without a remove curse or better) with each attack. Has a pair of +3/1d3+1 Claw attacks and a -2/1d4 Bite attack. AC of 17. It also has Darkvision 60 and Immunity to Acid (incidental at this level).

    This is a CR 1 creature.
    Uh, no? A 1 HD creature gets no fast healing, no vile damage, and no DR. A 2 HD creature would get fast healing 1, +1 vile damage, and still no DR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faily View Post
    Read ExLibrisMortis' post...

    WHY IS THERE NO LIKE BUTTON?!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Libris: look at your allowed sources. I don't think any of your options were from those.
    My incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
    My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
    Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by ExLibrisMortis View Post
    Uh, no? A 1 HD creature gets no fast healing, no vile damage, and no DR. A 2 HD creature would get fast healing 1, +1 vile damage, and still no DR.
    Ah, ok. The source I was using had it listed wrong.

    Still kinda sucks that something can deal vile damage that much earlier than the party can heal it.
    See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.

    Anyone is welcome to use or critique my 3.5 Fighter homebrew: The Vanguard.

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  13. - Top - End - #163
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Ah, ok. The source I was using had it listed wrong.

    Still kinda sucks that something can deal vile damage that much earlier than the party can heal it.
    Well, that's the problem with templates in general--what they provide (and thus what they should do to CRs) can really vary in potency depending on what you attach them to.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    I could be wrong, but I think Corrupted was superseded by Corrupted by the Abyss (EttDP)? It changed it quite a bit.

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Noventa View Post
    I can't think of anything specific at the moment, but every time I've encountered something Large Size or greater that uses any kind of grapple I just want to burn the book it comes from. Before you have access to freedom of Movement, being grappled by something focused on it is inevitable. The only counter is Freedom of Movement, because you can't build your character to grapple, you're too small. Between size bonuses, strength bonuses, and not needing to be good at anything else, monsters cheat at grappling. End of Line.
    No they don't I built an all out grapple build drove my DM nuts as he tried to find a CR appropriate way to counter it

    Start with a 18 strength apply voidmind template + 4 strength and improved grab Grapple trait brawler, Aberration Blood (Flexible Limbs) Jotunbrud
    2 level of Barbarian bear totem improved grapple
    Wizard 2 for enlarge person + 6 CL 2 Octopus familiar
    half elf paragon 3 + 2 strength Bab +2 +Weapon Focus grapple CL 3 pick up balor nimbus
    + Human paragon 3 + 2 strength bab + 2 CL 5
    effective level 13 Grapple + 46 - 48
    ending equipped with Weapon graft greatsword bow
    Gloves of the titan’s grip upgraded to at will
    Belt of strength + 6
    luck blade 0 wishs reroll a day
    I think I had another graft that boosted strength not sure what
    immunity to acid and mind-affecting spells and abilities, ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain.
    DR 5/ magic
    SR 10 + hd
    leaving me to do constrict damage and a weapon attack with my natural weapon graft 2d6 + 12 and constrict 1d6 + 18 and burning for 6d6 damage around in combat
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    I am a Neutral Good Human Paladin/Cleric (2nd/1st Level)

    Ability Scores:
    Strength- 13
    Dexterity- 13
    Constitution- 15
    Intelligence- 16
    Wisdom- 16
    Charisma- 14


  16. - Top - End - #166
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    that build clearly has things that come after accesses to freedom of movement (aka level 7)
    and just becuase a focused grapple build can handle grapples does not mean a normal character can.

    Your average mid level fighter is in for a real rough spot against a focused grapple monster

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by awa View Post
    that build clearly has things that come after accesses to freedom of movement (aka level 7)
    and just because a focused grapple build can handle grapples does not mean a normal character can.

    Your average mid level fighter is in for a real rough spot against a focused grapple monster
    your right it started level 4 and went to level 13. I was trying to make the point that grapple builds could be built on an even basis or even in the players favor, and with my touch of casting I could do other things as well.
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    I am a Neutral Good Human Paladin/Cleric (2nd/1st Level)

    Ability Scores:
    Strength- 13
    Dexterity- 13
    Constitution- 15
    Intelligence- 16
    Wisdom- 16
    Charisma- 14


  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: The most frustrating monsters to encounter as a PC...besides rust monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by Malimar View Post
    Living Love's Pain. Fight an ooze, discover afterwards everyone you ever loved is dead.
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    Actually, when Charm says 'threatened', do they mean on the grid or general hostile action?
    WotC is never clear in these things. I'd lean quite heavily toward the "in general" reading but YMMV, so ask your DM.
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    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
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