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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Metahuman1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Can we just cancel the show, Cancel Arrow, Cancel Legends of Tomorrow, and just have everyone show up every so often on super girl? Please?
    "I Burn!"

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    How about a crisis of infinite worlds event that brings Supergirl & Jay Garrick into the Flash-Arrow and Legends world?!

    Oh and Superman too!

    What about Batman can they use the Teen Titans?

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    I don't understand how people can hold season 1 up so much higher than season 2. Sure season 2 had largely the same premise and plot beats as season 1, but it was just so much better overall. Just the fact that season 2 didn't have any "we must keep the Flash's secret from Iris" points makes it superior. I'd argue Iris was a greater antagonist in season 1 than Reverse Flash, at least day to day.

    Quote Originally Posted by huttj509 View Post
    "You should tell them."
    "I can't, we're a CW show."
    A thousand times this. These shows introduce so many plot hurdles that are drama for the sake of drama. It also shows a lack of growth for these characters.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Metahuman1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Season 1 felt like fun. Season 2 they had to reach so hard for the idiot ball so often it finally wore out it's welcome. And spending most of the last quarter of the show dealing with evil Jay Garrick was utterly infuriating. (Also, really, no trickster episode this season at all?)
    "I Burn!"

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    I just watched the season premiere of Legends of Tomorrow (and actually enjoyed it ), which has only made the Flashpoint story line even more infuriating.

    I like Flash because it embraces its comic book roots, and the cast is adorable. But the writing... ow.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Ping Pong Along View Post
    I don't understand how people can hold season 1 up so much higher than season 2. Sure season 2 had largely the same premise and plot beats as season 1, but it was just so much better overall. Just the fact that season 2 didn't have any "we must keep the Flash's secret from Iris" points makes it superior. I'd argue Iris was a greater antagonist in season 1 than Reverse Flash, at least day to day.



    A thousand times this. These shows introduce so many plot hurdles that are drama for the sake of drama. It also shows a lack of growth for these characters.
    Couldn't Barry just keep changing his past till he fixes his present. I mean, a broken clock is right once, right?

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Couldn't Barry just keep changing his past till he fixes his present. I mean, a broken clock is right once, right?
    twice a day even! alas, poor barry will never be so succesfull it seems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orderic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by swaoeaeieu
    Or maybe, i dont know... adoption?
    Don't be ridiculous. We need those orphans...
    If at any point you notice mistakes in my English, please let me know, I am always looking to improve.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Couldn't Barry just keep changing his past till he fixes his present. I mean, a broken clock is right once, right?
    Hmmm, the broken mug has been reglued but the cracks are visible. Better break it again and try regluing, that works, right?

    Butterfly effect + "time doesn't like being screwed with" means that's not viable.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by huttj509 View Post
    Hmmm, the broken mug has been reglued but the cracks are visible. Better break it again and try regluing, that works, right?

    Butterfly effect + "time doesn't like being screwed with" means that's not viable.
    Well, except Flash let other mug breaking time traveler go free. Other time traveling mug breaking guy who seems to want to break the mug into little pieces and glue it back together in the shape of a pear. So the show wants me to believe that breaking the mug is bad (which I can agree with), but also that breaking the mug and putting it back together as a broken mug to stop it from being a broken mosaic pear is bad (something I am not buying).

    Spoiler: Legends of Tomorrow 201
    Show
    These guys are breaking the mug to stop it being a pear every week. Reverse Flash will hopefully be a better fit for this show. I can only assume this is a past Eobard Thawn, and he'll be stealing Gideon some time this season. And somehow messing up his own timeline through his meddling. And I completely don't know how Eddie's sacrifice is supposed to figure into all this at this point. I have to wonder if the writers even know.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Ping Pong Along View Post
    I don't understand how people can hold season 1 up so much higher than season 2. Sure season 2 had largely the same premise and plot beats as season 1, but it was just so much better overall. Just the fact that season 2 didn't have any "we must keep the Flash's secret from Iris" points makes it superior. I'd argue Iris was a greater antagonist in season 1 than Reverse Flash, at least day to day.
    In the first season, the Flash arrived as a contrast to Arrow - While Arrow was brooding and angsty, Flash was more fun and naive.
    In the second season, the differences eroded, and we were left with two depressed heroes. Both weren't allowed to have fun, have successful relationships for more than 10 minutes and even their small victories were usually overshadowed by sacrifices or a bigger threat their actions created.
    The difference is that unlike Arrow who started like this, Flash didn't, so this change is the main reason that made the second season worse for me. It was just less fun to watch.
    Judging from the positive reaction to Supergirl's first two episodes of the season, I think I'm not the only one.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Season 1 felt like fun. Season 2 they had to reach so hard for the idiot ball so often it finally wore out it's welcome. And spending most of the last quarter of the show dealing with evil Jay Garrick was utterly infuriating. (Also, really, no trickster episode this season at all?)
    I had a lot of problems with season 1, but by far the biggest one was how they portrayed Iris as an incredibly unlikable character. It seemed like every episode, they had to bend the narrative around keeping her in the dark even though she was going to do something dumb to get herself killed anyway. Was I supposed to be rooting for this romance? The show did everything it could for me to root against it. Season 2 at least dropped most of the elements about her character that made her scenes so painful from the previous season. It also brought in parallel earths, which are really fun. The overall plot beats were similar to season 1, but there was so much more to like with season 2. That includes the side characters. Snow has more to say than just science and Ronnie. Cisco has a greater arc with learning how to use his abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    In the first season, the Flash arrived as a contrast to Arrow - While Arrow was brooding and angsty, Flash was more fun and naive.
    In the second season, the differences eroded, and we were left with two depressed heroes. Both weren't allowed to have fun, have successful relationships for more than 10 minutes and even their small victories were usually overshadowed by sacrifices or a bigger threat their actions created.
    The difference is that unlike Arrow who started like this, Flash didn't, so this change is the main reason that made the second season worse for me. It was just less fun to watch.
    Judging from the positive reaction to Supergirl's first two episodes of the season, I think I'm not the only one.
    This makes more sense to me. I started with Flash and have only recently come around to Arrow, so I had nothing to compare it with except Marvel's Netflix shows, which are way darker than season 2 ever even approached.

    One small thing though, do any of these Arrowverse shows have an actual successful relationship? I'm still catching up on Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, so "yes" or "no" would be appreciated over specific examples. Especially concerning main characters, it seems like they all collapse or never get off the ground. Even side characters are either divorced, widowed, or later get divorced. Considering how much time the shows spend on romance, it's baffling at how few have any actual staying power.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Just want to drop a prediction for a future episode that was heavily telegraphed in tonight's episode
    Spoiler: Obvious prediction
    Show
    Wally, being the jealous whiny kid that he has become, will find out through a dream that he had speed powers in the alternate timeline and seek out Dr. Alchemy to get them. This will result in Alchemy taking Wally hostage and forcing a final showdown with the Flash and Wally will get his powers before the end of the story arc with or with Alchemy's help.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    I started Arrow Season 2.
    Did I miss much in Season 1 of it?

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Olinser's Avatar

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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    I started Arrow Season 2.
    Did I miss much in Season 1 of it?
    I mean you missed a lot of backstory and character buildup, especially about the Queen family and Malcom Merlyn, but nothing really OMG MUST SEE.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

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  15. - Top - End - #45
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Ping Pong Along View Post
    One small thing though, do any of these Arrowverse shows have an actual successful relationship? I'm still catching up on Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, so "yes" or "no" would be appreciated over specific examples. Especially concerning main characters, it seems like they all collapse or never get off the ground. Even side characters are either divorced, widowed, or later get divorced. Considering how much time the shows spend on romance, it's baffling at how few have any actual staying power.
    The answer is a simple "No".
    To make things worse, it usually also includes relationships like parent bonding with the child, or siblings that try to fix something that went wrong.

    It's like the writers are allergic to happiness.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by leafman View Post
    Just want to drop a prediction for a future episode that was heavily telegraphed in tonight's episode
    Spoiler: Obvious prediction
    Show
    Wally, being the jealous whiny kid that he has become, will find out through a dream that he had speed powers in the alternate timeline and seek out Dr. Alchemy to get them. This will result in Alchemy taking Wally hostage and forcing a final showdown with the Flash and Wally will get his powers before the end of the story arc with or with Alchemy's help.
    Spoiler: Super Duper Obvious
    Show
    Wally even told Jesse that he was dreaming of speed and his reaction to finding out that Frankie got her powers after dreaming about them. Barry is a complete idiot for not being able to put two and two together with this. He knows that Alchemy is bestowing powers on people who had them in Flashpoint (like Wally) and he knows that Wally is truly desperate for power. This is not hard.


    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    The answer is a simple "No".
    To make things worse, it usually also includes relationships like parent bonding with the child, or siblings that try to fix something that went wrong.

    It's like the writers are allergic to happiness.
    Captain Singh seems to quite happy with his offscreen marriage and there are a few positive familial and platonic relationships around the Arrowverse. Just not too many because the CW literally runs off melodrama from pretty people.
    Light a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    The answer is a simple "No".
    To make things worse, it usually also includes relationships like parent bonding with the child, or siblings that try to fix something that went wrong.

    It's like the writers are allergic to happiness.
    Thanks. I hadn't thought about the parent thing because that's been more of a mixed bag. That's something I like about Supergirl. Even when there's tension, it's still an overall happy show.

    Quote Originally Posted by GAZ View Post
    Captain Singh seems to quite happy with his offscreen marriage and there are a few positive familial and platonic relationships around the Arrowverse. Just not too many because the CW literally runs off melodrama from pretty people.
    When I said relationship, I was referring to more romantic relationships. Friendships have been pretty solid. Family drama is a fact of life, so I don't mind that.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Ping Pong Along View Post
    This makes more sense to me. I started with Flash and have only recently come around to Arrow, so I had nothing to compare it with except Marvel's Netflix shows, which are way darker than season 2 ever even approached.
    BTW, I would say that the difference between Netflix shows to the Arrowverse, is that MOST OF THE TIMES drama in Netflix is created by the characters while drama in Arrow is created (forced) by the writers.
    It's not 100% true all the time, but IMO it is a noticeable difference.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    The answer is a simple "No".
    To make things worse, it usually also includes relationships like parent bonding with the child, or siblings that try to fix something that went wrong.

    It's like the writers are allergic to happiness.
    Not really. It's more that writers are addicted to drama.

    Stable marriage = no drama (or mundane drama not of suitable scale). New/temporary relationships = ALL TEH DRAMAZ.

    I mean there are a few heroes that are in stable relationships, but the problem is that basically always leads to their love interest not appearing in the story unless somebody is threatening them.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

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  20. - Top - End - #50

    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    I started Arrow Season 2.
    Did I miss much in Season 1 of it?
    Not particularly, other than the start of some plotlines. The good news is that the series is now syndicated on TNT, so you can find S1 there if you need to.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    BTW, I would say that the difference between Netflix shows to the Arrowverse, is that MOST OF THE TIMES drama in Netflix is created by the characters while drama in Arrow is created (forced) by the writers.
    It's not 100% true all the time, but IMO it is a noticeable difference.
    That's pretty true. The Netflix shows also aren't afraid to put their characters through hell. When a character makes a change, it's always something that makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    Not really. It's more that writers are addicted to drama.

    Stable marriage = no drama (or mundane drama not of suitable scale). New/temporary relationships = ALL TEH DRAMAZ.

    I mean there are a few heroes that are in stable relationships, but the problem is that basically always leads to their love interest not appearing in the story unless somebody is threatening them.
    You can write a marriage with drama in it. That's half of the drama in the Americans. Looking back on Young Justice, it was able to not only have the kind of romances that are in the Arrowverse, but also have them make sense. When there's a break up, it makes sense given the circumstances. Nothing felt shoehorned in.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    You can write a marriage with drama in it. That's half of the drama in the Americans. Looking back on Young Justice, it was able to not only have the kind of romances that are in the Arrowverse, but also have them make sense. When there's a break up, it makes sense given the circumstances. Nothing felt shoehorned in.
    And it actually kinda makes me sad. Young Justice most likely had some of the best romance i have ever seen in a cartoon, or serie of its type.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    So

    Spoiler
    Show
    Odds of The Alchemist being "evil world doctor wells"? or are we waiting till season 4 to have that be a thing?

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    BTW, I would say that the difference between Netflix shows to the Arrowverse, is that MOST OF THE TIMES drama in Netflix is created by the characters while drama in Arrow is created (forced) by the writers.
    It's not 100% true all the time, but IMO it is a noticeable difference.
    I think that's mainly because the Netflix shows know they have 13 hours to fill and know what they want to do with their characters and know how they want to do it.

    With the CW shows, they have to potentially drag these relationships out for years, so they move at a very tremendously slow pace.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    I am shocked at how not terrible Iris and Barry are being together. If the chuckle****s called writers can do this, why did they not do it before? Or did they get an entirely new set of nonchuckle**** writers? That'd be cool.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Why exactly is Caitlin keeping her powers a secret?
    Pokemon Mystery Dungeon D20: A system designed for adventuring in a Pokemon Mystery Dungeon world.

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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonexx View Post
    Why exactly is Caitlin keeping her powers a secret?
    It's actually one of the very few times when it makes sense for a character to keep their powers secret. Killer Snow is, well, a killer. And there have been previous references to her being scared that her powers would turn her evil or that she had a wicked nature that she kept in check but would be released if she gained powers.

    Still stupid though.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Pronounceable View Post
    I am shocked at how not terrible Iris and Barry are being together. If the chuckle****s called writers can do this, why did they not do it before? Or did they get an entirely new set of nonchuckle**** writers? That'd be cool.
    Because it is a CW show and all CW shows have to have screen time dedicated to Relationship dramas. -looks at supergirl-

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Pronounceable View Post
    I am shocked at how not terrible Iris and Barry are being together. If the chuckle****s called writers can do this, why did they not do it before? Or did they get an entirely new set of nonchuckle**** writers? That'd be cool.
    They switched from "impossible" to "awkward" level.
    Is describing a normal relationship something that these writers are capable of? I guess we'll see in the next few episodes.


    Anyway, after all they've been through, their plan, FIRST plan, is to get another Wells from a different dimension?
    And it's not like there was a rush to get someone super smart, that was a spontaneous idea just because Wells needs to go back home.

    No one considered the possibility of interviewing someone from their world? Is there a shortage of smart people not called Wells?

    *Bashing head on desk*

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    Anyway, after all they've been through, their plan, FIRST plan, is to get another Wells from a different dimension?
    And it's not like there was a rush to get someone super smart, that was a spontaneous idea just because Wells needs to go back home.

    No one considered the possibility of interviewing someone from their world? Is there a shortage of smart people not called Wells?

    *Bashing head on desk*
    No way, I loved this plan. It's the opposite of the time-turner problem from Harry Potter, where the main characters don't use a really obvious tool. If you need someone as smart as Harrison Wells, and have access to a literally infinite number of them, just go grab another!
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